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One Unhinged Muslim & One Incompetent General

Posted on 11/05/2009 7:58:38 PM PST by SwaggerStick

More intriguing to me than the story behind an unhinged Muslin is how in the hell a General could stand before America and deal out so much misinformation – there was only one shooter who had two pistols, he was shot dead and the person who shot the shooter was also shot dead.

Now I know why so many of our young are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our Generals don’t know their asses from their elbows. One would expect miss information from civilians, but hearing it from seasoned military people who are very accustomed to battle is amazing.

When you have a General who lacks the common sense to realize there is no way in hell one man with two pistols could kill 11 and wound 31 you have a General who will lead our soldiers to slaughter.

Not only was the General dead wrong with his information, his second press conference was hours late with only a passing mention of him being tardy.

I served 3 years in the Army and 4 years in the Air Force, all I can say is I hope to hell we never face off with Russia or China with Generals like this.


TOPICS: Local News; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: army; nidalmalikhasan; yayanothervanity
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To: SwaggerStick
1) At this time, No one know what make/model of pistols the shooter used.
2) Let us assume that he had 2 Beretta M9 - 9MM military issue pistols.
3) Beretta M9 uses a 15 rd dbl stack magazine.
4) Two gun w/1 magazine each = 30 rds. 2 magazines each pistol = 60 rds. continue the math.
5) Magazine drop/reload = 3 to 5 seconds..
6) volume of targets in close confine area..

There were a lot of deaths and injuries. But, there could have been more had it not been for the response of the civilian PD.

51 posted on 11/05/2009 8:46:06 PM PST by UPcrawfish
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To: TWfromTEXAS

TOne it down, brother...divided we fall...


52 posted on 11/05/2009 8:47:24 PM PST by Patriot2A
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To: goat granny

We carried 400 - 600 marines .. not a single weapon amongst them let alone on their person. They stood in chow lines and kept the ship on water hours. PT’d during the day ate, showered, ate and showered, ate and showered, ate and showered some more at night. Hollywood showers ...

Water .. the most precious commodity on board ship ... that and the duty roll (butt wipe)

Gator Freighters forever....


53 posted on 11/05/2009 8:49:04 PM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: Patriot2A

DUDE - When you have been in the middle of an incident like this come back and tell me how you bravely tackled an armed man armed with two handguns and incapacitated him. I don’t give a damn how battle hardened anyone is, when faced with a life/death situation in which you are unarmed reactions will be different than when in combat and you are armed fighting with others who are also armed.

Oh, and how in-shape must a person be to wield two handguns and shoot dozens of people???? What a silly comment.


54 posted on 11/05/2009 8:51:26 PM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier whose wife is expecting twins SONS.)
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To: SwaggerStick

You condemn the entire officer corps based on two press conferences of one General? And your few years in uniform qualified you to make this judgment...how?


55 posted on 11/05/2009 8:55:21 PM PST by LiteKeeper (When do the impeachment proceedings begin?)
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To: autumnraine

I know its true. My statement would reflect what some so-called general officer is stating based on this thread.


56 posted on 11/05/2009 8:56:08 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: uncitizen

That Colonel was in all likelihood the General’s lawyer. He appeared to me to be saying “don’t say anything that you’ll regret. Pass on making any unsustained opinions.


57 posted on 11/05/2009 8:56:47 PM PST by oneolcop (Lead, Follow or Get the hell out of the way!)
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To: SoldierDad

Kincheloe AFB 1964 - 1965
Offutt (SAC Headquarters) AFB 1965 - 1967

What base were you at?


58 posted on 11/05/2009 8:57:01 PM PST by SwaggerStick
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To: autumnraine
As the Colonel explained, soldiers on a base do NOT carry their weapons around with them--unless they are on a training exercise that requires weapons--or are in "full battle rattle" immediately (as in hours) before deployment.

The woman who shot Hasan was a civilian security officer--she would be armed--and she did not die, as first reported.

The Colonel who gave the press conference said it was "counter-intuitive" that only one shooter could have killed and wounded so many persons, but that one of the weapons Hasan used was semi-automatic--so that could explain how so many shots were fired.

The tragic thing is that these soldiers, so used to combat, would be the last to suspect that any danger could be lurking within the supposedly secure--and safe--confines of their own base.

59 posted on 11/05/2009 8:57:32 PM PST by milagro
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To: ClayinVA

That is being kind .. we called them REMFS .. it is waht they are and were. Ask Swrartkopf and Tommy Franks what they called Powell. Its in Swartzkpfs book.

There are incredible Generals and Admirals that fight their hardest to stay as far away from the Pentagon as possible .. Juan McLoser’s dad, Admiral McCain was one of the best of the best. He HATED D.C. with a passion, loved to be at seaand was everything his son never could evn imagine being. Flag rank officers that “know” have one desire, to be at sea or with their men. The other types (REMF’s) will do tour after tour after tour in the pentagaon being noticed.

those that can lead DO .. those that can’t ... they are the political animal.


60 posted on 11/05/2009 8:58:39 PM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: autumnraine

I agree.

There is a lot of explaining to do. According to reports, this guy was under investigation for disturbing internet posts regarding suicide bombings. Who made the decision that this would be a good guy to deploy into a war theater?


61 posted on 11/05/2009 9:01:55 PM PST by juggernaut
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To: SwaggerStick

Minot AFB 77 - 83


62 posted on 11/05/2009 9:05:17 PM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier whose wife is expecting twins SONS.)
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To: SwaggerStick
One of the first things the General stated at the press conference was that he had personally spoken with the 'president' ....
If Obama is involved with what info gets out to the public, we can expect full "transparency" /sarc


63 posted on 11/05/2009 9:07:37 PM PST by Wolf-Lake
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To: autumnraine

It doesn’t work that way. I’m not sure how you got the idea that every soldier carries around a loaded weapon.


64 posted on 11/05/2009 9:09:52 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: HiramQuick
LOL sounds like fun,,,,,,not.......

My son was a plane captain on an Air Craft Carrier...He said you could always tell the ones that worked in the bowels of the ship...They stuck their heads topside once in a while...and there was nothing like green scrambled eggs, and getting in line for chow with 5000 other guys......(maybe a little hyperbole)

Did a couple of 6 month tours in the Med. playing games with the soviets during the cold war..

Being a proud mother, I got a lovely letter from the navy when they had a plane crash on deck and my son was one of the first to man the hoses..

I asked him what he thought at the time (a 20 year old) and he said "I thought what the fuc* am I doing here, I'm going to die" They fished one of the guys out of the drink and the other one's shoot landed him in the middle of the crash scene...Both survived to talk about it....

65 posted on 11/05/2009 9:17:04 PM PST by goat granny
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To: Patriot2A
My father ( along with almost every male in my family ) served in the Army. He always says the most dangerous man in the world is a former E4 who knows everything.

My grandfather played pro football, and coached high school. He hated pee wee coaches saying they all acted like they were coaching in the super bowl.

My mom is a district Teacher of the Year in one of the largest districts in Texas. My first day of school she told me that teachers are not always right and don't know everything.

My doctor great grandfather said "Remember there is a 50% chance your doctor graduated in the bottom half of his class.

I just can't stand uninformed know it alls, and intend to be a curmudgeon when I get older. ;-0

66 posted on 11/05/2009 9:18:50 PM PST by TWfromTEXAS (Life is the one choice that pro choicers will not support.)
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To: All

Lots of arm chair quarterbacking going on around here. Geez, sound like a bunch of spoiled libs speculating on loss of human life. Let this thing get sorted out.


67 posted on 11/05/2009 9:22:11 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: SoldierDad
The only people on a U.S. military installation allowed to carry firearms is Military Police.

Please tell me you're trolling. If you're not, when did this rule come about?

68 posted on 11/05/2009 9:35:19 PM PST by altair (I want him to fail)
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To: TWfromTEXAS
just down the road at a cafeteria in the early 90's one guy killed 23 and wounded another 20. One shot in a crowd can hit 2 or 3. You don't seem to know a damn thing so why not give them a few hours to sort it out.

Um, this guy was on a military base. With soldiers - surrounded by people who have been trained to kill people and break things.

Something is very wrong with this picture. I'm a pacifist, but I do believe in a strong defense. How could one person kill so many of our soldiers?

69 posted on 11/05/2009 9:40:42 PM PST by altair (I want him to fail)
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To: goat granny

Your son summed it up about as well as it could be done.

Naval aviators, plane captains, yellow, green, red and puple shirts (purple shirts pass gas with a smile) all have one thing in common. they share inthe most dangerous job in the world ... going to flight ops on a carrier.

Mothers are better off NOT knowing what their sons are doing on a flight deck. Dirty little secret ... it wasn’t uncommon to have a sailor blownover the side during peace time flight ops. .. not often, but enough to remind everyone that they were one step away, or one rollout away from dire straits.

And if you think going over the side is dangerous, you should see the ones that put themselves in harms way as SAR’s (rscue specialists)that go after them.

God bless proud mothers.


70 posted on 11/05/2009 9:45:10 PM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: Billthedrill
It’s hard to believe, but it’s a fact - military bases lock firearms away. I had a private firearm the whole time I was in and it was locked up in one armory or another the entire time.

Oh my. I can't believe we're this stupid, but I'll believe a vet who says it's so.

Um, if there are any real terrorists out there, Open Season has just been demonstrated on US military.

71 posted on 11/05/2009 9:46:47 PM PST by altair (I want him to fail)
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To: Wolf-Lake

Officers in the military are very political...


72 posted on 11/05/2009 9:56:27 PM PST by Irisshlass
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To: Mike Darancette

Within just a very few minutes of the first report I heard, some damned liberal called the local talk radio station and said it was the “militia”. It must be some kind of a kneejerk thing with them!


73 posted on 11/05/2009 10:36:29 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: autumnraine

Less than 4 mags, but the victims must have been concentrated and trapped. I carry 27 rounds in 2 mags.


74 posted on 11/05/2009 10:39:23 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: SoldierDad

one man with an arsenal and not an armed defender in sight, comparing VA tech with what has been alledged in this case to date is not apples to oranges, its apples to cumquats.

1 guy with 2 pistols, on a military base with trained and armed soldiers, military and civilian guards, I am not remotely believing pulled this off single handed.... This just doesn’t pass the smell test to me at all.


75 posted on 11/05/2009 10:40:24 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: HiramQuick
***God bless proud mothers.***

And to all that serve in any capacity....God Bless and watch over them........:O)

76 posted on 11/05/2009 10:45:26 PM PST by goat granny
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To: HamiltonJay

“1 guy with 2 pistols, on a military base with trained and armed soldiers, military and civilian guards, I am not remotely believing pulled this off single handed”

I can believe this happened. He’s in a medical center with gobs of people in waiting rooms. All unarmed and probably distracted thinking about anything but being attacked. A target rich environment for sure.

As far as armed military personnel go, the last time I was in a military hospital (Balboa 2 weeks ago), the only armed personnel I saw were at the front gate. None in the waiting rooms or in the pharmacy.


77 posted on 11/05/2009 10:52:46 PM PST by Francis McClobber
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To: HiramQuick

I don’t think LGEN Cone can be considered a REMF. It looks like he’s been operational for most of his military career.


78 posted on 11/05/2009 10:55:19 PM PST by Francis McClobber
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To: Mike Darancette

I think that the FBI on orders from very high up was telling people what to say. This has to have shaken Obama up. The administration was hoping that the violence would come from the right.


Surely the fine organization that made Waco and Filegate possible would not engage in any spin?


79 posted on 11/06/2009 1:16:32 AM PST by Psalm 144 (What did you think NEW WORLD ORDER meant? The Constitution? States' rights? Individual liberty?)
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To: SwaggerStick

While my son was deployed to Iraq for a year, most of his frustration was with the lack of leadership. When they returned to the states, his commander lost his commission.


80 posted on 11/06/2009 1:57:56 AM PST by grame (To God be the Glory!)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
but the victims must have been concentrated and trapped

If you read the transcript of this news report about an eyewitness soldier, it appears to have been a waiting room, and Hasan, being a doctor, had gained access, sitting behind the "desk" -- probably a counter, then stood up and opened fire. Shooting gallery. Element of surprise. Unarmed victims.

soldiers were sitting in a staging area for medical and dental checks when the group was startled by gunfire. "A person behind counter stood up, and he said, ‘Allah Akbar!' And just opened up on everybody," the father told us.

81 posted on 11/06/2009 2:11:27 AM PST by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: Kirkwood

I don’t think every soldier carries a loaded weapon, but I would think there would be a greater concentration of weapons than somewhere else.


82 posted on 11/06/2009 3:20:58 AM PST by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: goat granny
My Navy Seal nephew would disagree with that.
83 posted on 11/06/2009 3:26:59 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. V for victory)
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To: Francis McClobber

glad you can tell by looking at him .... I’m impressed.

I mean I don’t have a clue ... can’t say if he was operational or not ..I don’t have that good of power of observation to tell where a man was stationed without seeing a service record. I’m funny tht way.


84 posted on 11/06/2009 3:27:01 AM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: Francis McClobber

Oh and by the way ... I don’t think I ever addressed THE GEN specifically as an REMF in my posts.


85 posted on 11/06/2009 3:32:00 AM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: Patriot2A

“......IN this case, you have dozens of battle hardened GI’s which are used to firefights and can easily tackle one assailant...you are telling me that no one tried to incapacitate the assailant? “

Perhaps some of the dead and injured were attempting to get to him. We will have to wait for the reports from those who were there.


86 posted on 11/06/2009 3:57:00 AM PST by FreedomGuru (Obamacare = Frontal Obamotomy...)
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To: SwaggerStick

So how would Lieutenant General SwaggerStick have done better?


87 posted on 11/06/2009 4:00:31 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: SwaggerStick
Inactive USMC here, we were issued ammunition when it was thought we might need it. When the mission was over we had to return it. On a post like Fort Hood, it is highly unlikely anyone not in a live fire training mission had any ammo. Also most of the soldiers probably had thier weapon locked up in an Company Armory. In short no one other then military were armed and capable of returning fire.

Also the generals running the training post like Fort Hood are not the generals running the wars. Different missions different skills. Not at all surprising or worrying that the first reports were inaccurate. The real bitch is how P.C.ified the US Army has become that a practicing Muslim with a bad OER and an aniti-American attitude reaches the rank of Major and is allowed to stay in the US Army.

88 posted on 11/06/2009 4:35:33 AM PST by jpsb
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To: HiramQuick

I read his bio. I forgot to add that to my post.

His bio is posted on the III Corps website if you wish to find out more.


89 posted on 11/06/2009 5:31:46 AM PST by Francis McClobber
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To: altair
Soldiers on a military base are unarmed, they are not Rambo. When fired upon and unarmed you run. I think you watch too much TV.
90 posted on 11/06/2009 6:14:38 AM PST by TWfromTEXAS (Life is the one choice that pro choicers will not support.)
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To: Francis McClobber

My step-father was a corpman, he worked in the clinic on various bases, and while not everyone running around the place was armed, There were always folks armed at the or near the clinics he worked in. I cannot recall once in all the years he was domestically stationed where I visited him at work and did not see at least one MP (usually more) on premises at the clinics, either escorting someone who did stomething stupid and was being stitched up before put in the brig or stopping in on their rounds.

Hell even when he was stationed at the reserve center in Pittsburgh, he and several others were carrying open or concealed whenever I visited his office.

I am not familiar with this base or Army protocol at all, but I know my exposure to military bases, which were nearly all marine, you didn’t have to look far to find armed personel on any of them.

For 40 people to be shot, with 2 handguns you are looking at minimum of 4 clips being emptied assuming nearly every bullet hit. While certainly you can empty semi’s quickly, something about this just doesn’t smell right to me.


91 posted on 11/06/2009 8:14:58 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: altair

Considering the fact that when I was in the Military during the 1970’s and the only people who carried firearms on base were either LE or Security, I have a hard time understanding your post to me. Also, my son is presently in the Army. At Ft. Drum, NY no one carried weapons unless they were involved in training exersizes or were Military Police. And, with training exersizes, the weapons were not loaded unless they were actually within the training grounds. He’s now at Ft. Benning, GA. Same rules apply. No one carries weapons upon a Military installation except LE/Military Police or soldiers out on training grounds. The carrying of weapons on the installation proper is not permitted. Perhaps you should ask someone who works on a Military Installation before you call me a troll.


92 posted on 11/06/2009 8:24:30 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier whose wife is expecting twins SONS.)
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To: goat granny

Marines make fun of the Navy, but sailors don’t usually put themselves down that way. My Navy son rated as a sharpshooter, expert or something.


93 posted on 11/06/2009 8:24:46 AM PST by Shimmer1 (Froggie sez water nice and warm)
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To: HamiltonJay

Let’s understand this one point of fact: No one other than Military/Civiliam Police carries weapons on Military Installations within the installation proper - the only area of a Military Installation where soldiers are permitted to walk around armed is the training grounds. This incident didn’t occur anywhere near the training grounds. It was near office buildings. The only person who was armed when the shooting started, and before LE responsed, was the shooter.


94 posted on 11/06/2009 8:27:36 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier whose wife is expecting twins SONS.)
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To: Patriot2A

I heard one father on Fox call in and say his son got shot in the arm, son got up and ran like hell. I was embarrassed for him that he didn’t try to help by attacking the shooter. Maybe it was a rain of fire or something, but it sounded yellow to me.


95 posted on 11/06/2009 8:27:57 AM PST by Shimmer1 (Froggie sez water nice and warm)
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To: TWfromTEXAS

Sounds like you come from a long line of them. :D


96 posted on 11/06/2009 8:34:20 AM PST by Shimmer1 (Froggie sez water nice and warm)
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To: altair; SoldierDad

Why would you say such a thing to soldierdad when you don’t know what you’re talking about?? He’s right! No weapons, not locked in your trunk, no in the other room in a gun safe. None in your possession.
I too wonder why someone or several someones didn’t just jump him, but there’s NO reason to insult a FReeper who knows of what he speaks.


97 posted on 11/06/2009 8:38:33 AM PST by Shimmer1 (Froggie sez water nice and warm)
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To: HamiltonJay

That’s the opposite of every single other person’s experience. Weapons are NEVER to be brought on base by off duty, loaded or not. The idea that your step father would carry while on base makes my eyes bug out in surprise that he would take that risk. He would have been in great trouble if he’d been caught. And no one was carrying openly.
Navy wife, Navy mom


98 posted on 11/06/2009 8:53:08 AM PST by Shimmer1 (Navy Mom)
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To: Shimmer1

Thanks for the support. It’s understandable for someone to question why soldiers who may have seen combat before (no way to know if those in the area had as I’ve not seen/read any reports that indicate this) would not have tackled the shooter and disarmed him. However, unless we’ve been in this situation, it’s hard to second guess the actions of those who were in that moment.


99 posted on 11/06/2009 9:45:01 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier whose wife is expecting twins SONS.)
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To: SwaggerStick
“Fog of war”

Initial information is always confused, often contradictory and usually incorrect.

But our media driven culture demands information now. Now!

Remember the morning of 9/11? Reports of more hijacked planes, mass shootings, Car bombs, radiation detection. It took weeks to sort it all out.

100 posted on 11/06/2009 9:46:30 AM PST by El Sordo
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