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Attorney wants Phoebe Prince’s medical records (Mass. bullying case)
Boston Herald ^ | 04/10/10 | Marie Szaniszlo

Posted on 04/11/2010 8:52:46 PM PDT by jerry557

The attorney for one of six South Hadley High School students accused of bullying Phoebe Prince in the months leading up to her suicide is asking for highly personal information about her, a move decried by a former prosecutor and victims advocates as “unconscionable.”

In a six-page motion filed in Northampton Superior Court, Terrence M. Dunphy, the lawyer for Austin Renaud, asks for the names of any physicians, psychologists or rape counselors Prince saw; any medical and psychological records viewed by the prosecutor; details of any prior allegations of rape or abuse by Prince; and a statement as to whether her family had been the subject of a Department of Children and Families investigation.

“It’s standard procedure,” Dunphy, whose client is one of two boys charged with statutory rape, said of the request. “The document speaks for itself. I’m not explaining anything.”

Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor who teaches at the New England School of Law, called the move “unconscionable,” arguing that the state’s highest court has ruled that the defendant in a criminal case is not entitled to a “laundry list of everyone the victim’s ever been treated by.”

There is a “very narrow” exception, Murphy said, in which the defense has to explicitly show there is something in the alleged victim’s file that will affect the defendant’s chance of a fair trial.

“But in this case, it’s not only overly broad, it’s exceedingly premature,” she said, adding that Prince never accused anyone of statutory rape - consensual sex with a minor. “I can only see it as a threat to unveil all the family secrets.”

If Dunphy pursues it, Murphy said, prosecutors have a right to “reciprocal discovery,” or the same type of information about the defendants.

(Excerpt) Read more at bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Local News; Society
KEYWORDS: ashleylonge; assault; austinrenaud; blamevictim; bullying; chargedwithrape; client; consensualsex; convict; conviction; counselors; court; cowards; crime; criminal; defendant; defense; finalstraw; flannerymullins; intimidation; investigation; kaylanarey; killers; law; lawschool; lawyer; massachusetts; mentalillness; monsters; murderers; northamptoncourt; phoebeprince; physicians; police; prosecutor; psychologists; rape; rapecounselors; rapist; request; school; seanmulveyhill; sex; sharonvelazquez; slut; stalking; standardprocedure; statutoryrape; suicide; terrencemdunphy; tormentor; torture; unstable; victims; victimsadvocates; wendymurphy
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To: Cheburashka

She was dating both of the boys with whom she was sleeping with, but as she was only a freshman there is always a chance at filing statutory charges as they were a few years older.

The girls on the other hand called her a slut to her face and online. So, we should now outlaw this type of language?

Other reports have come out that she also had problems in school in Ireland. This does not speak to a stabile young girl, so I’m not surprised the defense is trying to seek a bit more background.

None of what has happened here is out of the norm for high schools, the difference is this troubled girl took her own life.
I have a sophomore in high school, who has seen girls get labeled as a “slut”, with todays norms of sexuality this usually involves having multiple partners. Generally these are girls who act out sexually for attention. As Phoebe was a freshman, it is I think still quite unusual for her to have had two sexual partners. There may of course have been more, these two boys are being charged because they are a few grades older.

At this time, we do not have enough information to prosecute these kids.


51 posted on 04/12/2010 7:29:15 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: Shimmer1

Tell him to delete them as friends, why is he communicating with them? If they have constructed a page criticizing him, it is very easy to have the page pulled by reporting it as abuse.


52 posted on 04/12/2010 7:30:59 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: LukeL

It sounds like you’re talking about the eggshell skull rule of torts, which basically says “you take your victim as you find them.” My former employer once had a client whose vehicle was barely tapped in a mild accident, and we tried to argue that, since he had all kinds of pre-existing medical conditions, the defendant was liable.


53 posted on 04/12/2010 7:37:46 AM PDT by LanPB01
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

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To: Morgana

Two boys were charged. But the attorney for ONE of the boys made the request for information. That boy is only charged with the statutory rape.

The other boy is charged with the statutory rape and the bullying.


58 posted on 04/12/2010 9:33:10 AM PDT by jerry557
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To: Morgana

America is going to be wiping this off our faces for a long time. How cna we possibly lecture about morality and decency when we allow vermin like this to roam our halls.


59 posted on 04/12/2010 10:06:12 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Morgana

After this, Americans will have no credibility when discussing things like morals, decency, and about what is tyranny and what isn’t. If we ever get into a spat with Ireland, they’ll be the ones reminding us of what we let happen to that poor chid.

Unless this scum is punished and punished severely, then we are going to lose a lot of face and standing as an example of freedom and morality.


60 posted on 04/12/2010 10:19:32 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Shimmer1

Electronics have made for a difficult new landscape for parents of teens. I, too, have been through a long ordeal with a teen and a long-distance invisible boyfriend.

It is thoroughly creepy and figuring out what to do about it is bewildering.

How can they harass him on FB unless they are “friends”—these “friends” can at least be excluded from his wall, and he can avoid visiting their walls.

The younger the teen, the more likely you can contact the parent. And they should be reminded that whatever they put on FB will live forever.

90% of the time, I really hate facebook. Do you think you could get him to either shut it down or just avoid it most of the time?


61 posted on 04/12/2010 10:22:56 AM PDT by Mamzelle (Cameras, cameras--never forget to bring your cameras)
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To: Niuhuru
Also, Jon Carmichael, 13, in Texas hanged himself because of bullying. iirc, it happened at end of March. Not much has been said about his death. Very, very sad.
62 posted on 04/12/2010 10:29:20 AM PDT by apocalypto
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To: apocalypto

I can only imagine what it is like for a parent to plan their funeral instead of wedding. I think a huge reason that so many people are ticked that they are tired of hearing stories about children dying so soon and early.


63 posted on 04/12/2010 10:31:17 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: antceecee

This isn’t about bullying. They stalked her after school and followed her around, throwing things at her. The reason people around this country are all for pressing charges is because so many parents have paid for the funerals of their CHILDREN and friends have lost friends they’ll never share the good times with and how many out there will never meet them and have children and a family life with.

When we discuss abortion, we mention all the aborted babies who will never have friends and how many aborted babies will never have families etc. and yet you think that this was JUST bullying. This was stalking, harrassment, and then one of the little bastards bragged about lying to the police.


64 posted on 04/12/2010 10:39:18 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Niuhuru

I agree.


65 posted on 04/12/2010 11:59:47 AM PDT by apocalypto
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To: mac_truck

The person commented about rape in general - I commented about rape in general. I did not comment about statutory rape, in which defense 2 does not apply.


66 posted on 04/12/2010 12:00:12 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Stephen Decatur: you want barrels of gunpowder as tribute, you must expect cannonballs with it.)
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To: Niuhuru

Why are you so against the prosecution mounting their case and letting the defendants defend themselves against the accusations. So far this has been tried in the media. They may well be guilty of all charges, but the hysteria I see on these threads is amazing.


67 posted on 04/12/2010 12:03:58 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: antceecee

Because it’s too much for too many people. It’s been gotten away with for too long and people are sick and tired of this rot that infests our schools. This is simply the straw that broke the nation’s back in regards to this. It’s been held back and while the defendants are disgustingly guilty, they symbolize all the misery that bullies have heaped on innocents.


68 posted on 04/12/2010 12:06:35 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Katya

I agree with much of what you have posted. This case is being tried in the realm of public opinion by the media hype.


69 posted on 04/12/2010 12:10:37 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: Niuhuru

You wish to take away the civil rights of these defendants because “it’s been gotten away with for too long and people are sick and tired of this rot that infests our schools.”?
Amazing! And to read this on FR...even more amazing!


70 posted on 04/12/2010 12:15:38 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: antceecee

They stalked her outside of school and threw phsyical threats at her. That is a crime. Having sex with someone underge when you are eighteen is statutory rape. That’s why they are being charged with crimes. The reason people are lashing out is because they are sick of seeing and experiencing this stuff day in and day out at school.


71 posted on 04/12/2010 12:23:43 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Niuhuru

Are you seeing this stuff day in and day out at school?


72 posted on 04/12/2010 12:51:15 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: Niuhuru

There was apparently ONE throwing incident, of a can of energy soda. Sorry, I don’t see this as a crisis of the proportions you list.

None of us has all the facts, you are simply reacting to tabloid fodder.

The fact is, kids without emotional issues do not kill themselves. Girls who are emotionally healthy, also do not engage in sexual activities with multiple partners as freshmen.


73 posted on 04/12/2010 1:28:04 PM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: antceecee

I was bullied relentlessly in my interior design class. My feeble attempts at standing up for myself were quashed.


74 posted on 04/12/2010 2:42:39 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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Comment #75 Removed by Moderator

To: Morgana

That too.


76 posted on 04/12/2010 6:02:25 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Niuhuru

Getting my Interior Design degree was one helluva long abusive experience! LOL! They started with 50 students and two years later there were 10 of us left! The instructors (and the aggressive fellow students) were bound and determined to weed out the weak, the untalented. SOP for design department degrees.
Made me a better presenter, made me work harder and strive to be the best.


77 posted on 04/12/2010 8:27:23 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: Talisker

>>Remember—this is a suicide. Not a murder. What you have here are people being accused of being mean teens. Any of you have any teens who were mean?
>
>No, it’s a mobbing,

Six people is a mob? I think it would be more of a clique.

>which is a coordinated, extensive and premeditated psychological attack to cause harm to someone.

How is this different from how the “Jocks treat the nerds” or any of that sort of high-school social dynamic?

>Driving them to suicide is called “intentional harm” - and that turns the suicide into homicide.

And if I make a no-bones, open, declaration that I think you’re a dumb-ass [and don’t like you], and you go and kill yourself how does that make me culpable? The other option, that I think you’re a dumb-ass [and don’t like you], yet keep everything hidden [to the point of pretending that you’re ‘a-ok’] seems a bit dishonest...

>Any of you have teens who coordinated vicious psychological mobbing attacks over a period of months with intent to destroy - and then write gleeful facebook posts celebrating the death?

Certainly it’s insensitive and unsympathetic, but how is it *criminal* to be glad that someone you despise is dead? [John Murtha, anyone?] If, say, Nancy Pelosi were to die and you saw a facebook post saying that was a good thing; would you support an investigation into that person based solely on that comment?

>Is THAT what you mean by “teens who are mean”?

I’m not sure what the previous poster meant by it.


78 posted on 04/18/2010 8:11:24 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: matthew fuller

>Since you seem so bound and determined to slime and desecrate this dead minor girl’s memory it occurs to me to wonder, are you possibly a member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Have a good nite.

There’s a difference here, the members of Westboro are, at most, insensitive and tasteless... while this kid has his life and reputation on the line because of what he is accused of. An accusation does NOT make one guilty of that accusation, which is why we have defense attorneys and trials.


79 posted on 04/18/2010 8:26:32 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark
"An accusation does NOT make one guilty of that accusation, which is why we have defense attorneys and trials."

The defendant(s) absolutely deserve a fair trial, and I challenge you to show me where I said different, HOWEVER, the victim here does not deserve a trial, which is all a request for her medical records is, that is, specifically a way to slime the victim. That is not part of a fair trial.

80 posted on 04/18/2010 5:49:42 PM PDT by matthew fuller (#11. Thou shalt not argue with morons.)
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To: jerry557

I would think the reason they were able to charge those boys with rape was because its illegal to have to underage sex.


81 posted on 04/18/2010 5:52:29 PM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: matthew fuller

How is it “sliming” the victim to see if [and if so show] that she had been dealing with such issues beforehand? It seems to me that the state could open the records and claim that because she did have such a history that the defendants “should have known better” or some such.

It is also EXTREMELY relevant if she accused one of the boys of rape if the medical records [and police records for that matter] show that she had been examined for rape/sexual-abuse at some point before; most especially if those findings were false accusations/reports on her part. {There ARE people who will make false claims against someone.}


82 posted on 04/18/2010 6:25:42 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: sabe@q.com

>I would think the reason they were able to charge those boys with rape was because its illegal to have to underage sex.

I’ve been male as long as I can remember... at what age is having a sex illegal? ;)


83 posted on 04/18/2010 6:27:10 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

I would guess 18


84 posted on 04/18/2010 8:49:30 PM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com

...I was a male at 18, I was never apprehended, so does that mean I’m a fugitive from justice?


85 posted on 04/18/2010 8:58:42 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

I believe the two boys are being charged with rape because they were under 18 which is unlawful.


86 posted on 04/18/2010 9:07:47 PM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com

>I believe the two boys are being charged with rape because they were under 18 which is unlawful.

Not necessarily. The ‘age of consent’ here in New Mexico was 14, last time I checked; a holdover from the times when it was a territory (and survival-rates weren’t particularly high), but not [strictly speaking] wrong.

[Also,] In many cultures the female is considered to be of childbearing age after her first period while the male reaches manhood at 12 or 13 [or perhaps some ritual/task].


87 posted on 04/18/2010 10:29:39 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

this happened in MA if age wasn’t the issue i doubt they would be able to charge


88 posted on 04/18/2010 10:33:15 PM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: OneWingedShark
"How is it “sliming” the victim to see if [and if so show] that she had been dealing with such issues beforehand?"

If you do not see and understand the irrevalence of a minor child's prior behavior, in relation to a statutory rape charge, you're a deeply sick individual. No amount of whatever kind of POSSIBLE seductive behavior or medical condition on her part is material, coming from a minor. And this attempt to gain access to medical info about the victim is nothing but an attempt to put her behavior on trial.

89 posted on 04/19/2010 9:33:15 AM PDT by matthew fuller (#11. Thou shalt not argue with morons.)
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To: matthew fuller

>>”How is it “sliming” the victim to see if [and if so show] that she had been dealing with such issues beforehand?”
>
>If you do not see and understand the irrevalence of a minor child’s prior behavior, in relation to a statutory rape charge, you’re a deeply sick individual.

There are several key arguments in a ‘statutory rape’ case:
1) Age, which can be lied about.
2) Age difference, in some states, which can be lied about.
3) Sexual intercourse, which can be lied about.

So, there is the possibility that the ‘victim’ was a pathological liar. There is also the possibility that the accuser [given the victim suicide, must be someone else] is lying or misinformed.

The medical records [as well as criminal records] could show that there was such a history of lying.


90 posted on 04/19/2010 4:59:43 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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