Posted on 04/28/2010 4:05:19 PM PDT by mukraker
I have a question I’d like to ask of my fellow Freepers.
Would anything short of deportation of illegal immigrants still be considered amnesty?
Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens? What can actually be done?
A partial solution, one that I think would work, would be to allow anyone who is here illegally to come forward, on their own accord, by a date certain, and admit they are here illegally. They would appear in a court of law, and plead guilty to entering the country illegally, or overstaying their visas, or whatever the circumstances as to why they are here illegally requires.
The court would find them guilty of a felony, but the lowest class of felony.
The mandatory punishment would include 1) lifetime probation, felonious violation of which would be immediately punishable by deportation; 2) payment of a substantial fine (say $5,000); and, 3) a lifetime prohibition from attaining U.S. citizenship.
The individual would then be allowed to remain in the country legally, but could never become a citizen, could never vote, and would face immediate deportation if they commit another felony. They would become permanent resident aliens, legal aliens, upon payment of the $5,000 fine and verification of compliance with the other terms of the punishment.
I don’t claim that this would be a perfect solution, but I think it just might be part of the solution. It provides an incentive for illegals to come forward and be identified, but also imposes punishment for the crime they have committed by being here illegally. And it prohibits those people from ever becoming legal U.S. citizens.
I welcome your thoughts.
Yes.
Homeboy, how dare you ask people to reflect on this (or any other, but especially this) issue. You’d better stock up on flame suits.
Yes!
See U.S. Code TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324
Follow Arizona as an example, they are self deporting to another state and back to their country.
RINOS will cave as usual.
No welfare, no free housing, no free healthcare, no free education, no illegal jobs. Go back to Mexico and apply for legal residency here.
Then we can at least have something to discuss.
No way. The next admin would find this to be against human rights, and they’d get the rest.
Deport, deport, deport.
Deport some, the rest will leave, if they think they’ll lose their property entirely. Better to sell assets and leave, than to be deported and lose their assets.
Eisenhower did it——no sweat.
Amen.
Deportation doesn’t even need to be an option. Cut off the money and they leave voluntarily. We see it here all the time when the jobs dry up, and school enrollement drops by 20% or so....
hh
The fines would never be paid, welfare rolls, food stamps, hospitals, schools and the criminal justice system would still be swamped, all at cost to taxpayers.
Thousands of Americans would still be assaulted, killed by illegal criminals and drivers with no insurance.
The dems would still get them to vote.
They would still continue to depress wages and take American jobs.
It's that simple. Over a period of a few years, I think you'd find our illegal problem will all but have completely abated.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc_sec_08_00001324---a000-.html
This deals with the employment side, but what about the mere being here part of the equasion? What do you do with the kid in school, the honors kid, wjo was brought here illegally when his parents crossed the border with him as a baby? What do you do with the businessman who employs a hundred local residents, but who, himself, is here illegally?
I'm looking for more than knee-jerk reactions.
How exactly do (some of) you propose to deport the millions who are here illegally?
Double-superlative typo - sorry.
Yes you can deport them all. You just have to have the SPINE to do it. Once it gets started, more will self-deport.
Take away the freebies, jobs, and ill-gotten gains and the rust back to the border will commence. But first you got to get a SPINE!
I agree. We also need to enforce the laws already on the nbooks.
Google “attrition through enforcement’. We don’t have to deport 12 million/32 million/47 million/11 million ILLEGAL aliens. When they see the laws being enforced, they will move somewhere else—kind of like when your neighbor has his house sprayed for bugs, what happens? Then, what do YOU have to do?
All 50 states and the territories need to pass the same law as Arizona. Uniformity across the board will close the borders and keep America much safer than she is now, which isn’t very safe!
why not as part of the reform, allow permanent green card status but no possibility of citizenship or government benefits
By all means convict them of a felony, then sentence them to 10 years forced labor and house them in factories.
Soon we’ll be exporting cheap goods to China and certainly nobody will want to be here illegally.
unless they serve the military
A path to anything needs to start with an application for legal immigration filed at a US Embassy outside of the United States. I don’t care how long you have been here, if you want legal status, go home and apply.
We did not provide transportation for the illegals to come here. They can find their own way home. If we have to deport them, we should deliver them to the souternmost part of Mexico.
If we find we need a guest worker program, applications can be filed at those same US Embassys overseas.
If anyone needs a lesson on how to make this work, they should Google “Operation Wetback”.
We already played this game.
We let them stay, everyone now here illegally came in after we let everyone stay the last time.
Deport them you silly.
Games are over
No its not all or nothing to answer your question.
But your premise is flawed. We don’t have to round up 12M people and deport them at once. We first stop the leak before we worry about rounding up anybody. Then and only then do we slowly deal with the existing illegals through a discentive structure focused at employers. You want to make it hard for the illegals and force them to deport themselves.
My first priority now is not deporting the existing illegals but to stop the flood. First things first. Where is this friggin’ wall and why isn’t someone - anyone - in Congress demanding it be built? We have a national security problem here.
As you said, a change in immigration laws that would prohibit anyone who came here illegally from ever attaining legal citizenship would be a good step.
Really, spine? That's all it would take? No logistics involved at all. There are 12 million (probably more) people in this country illegally. If you wanted to get it done in 5 years, you would have to deport 6,576 illegals EACH DAY, every day including weekends. Do you really think that is logistically possible?
“Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens”
You make a start - one illegal alien at a time...no matter what country they came from!
Yes, exactly right
Follow existing federal law and deport them.
Yes, it is amnesty. Your suggestion is exactly how it is done though and will be done. Anyone who wants to actually protect our borders will be called racist and the weepublicans will cave. Obviously you have not heard our neighbors to the South talk about taking the SW “back” by repatriation. Or assume you did not or you would not be helping them. Close off the illegal jobs and all welfare and you wont have to deport anyone. I only hire Americans in our landscape company and must compete with companies who have 90% or better illegal labor. But I refuse to break the law.
When the economy recovers, they can apply to come here legally. We can take advantage of the down time to come up with a realistic bracero program where they can come up and work as long as there is no criminal activity. Some can even apply for citizenship if they do it the legal way.
Most don’t care about citizenship. Most don’t care to assimilate. They just want to work and send money “home.”
It sends a bad message - if you can get to the US by any means, eventually they will let you stay. When that happens, we no longer control our own immigration.
It is also dangerous to have two classes of people. Citizens that can vote and “others” that we allow to live here but not participate in the American process.
Enforce current laws and most will self deport.
"Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens?"
First off, try to get out of your mind that 12 million is a big number. It's not. In the course of two weeks DC's Metro-rail system moves that many passengers.
Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA) began moving that many people annually through its terminal operation in 1976. There are a good number of other airports in the United States who could do that easily.
Buses, trucks, automobiles ~ you'd only need 2 million used cars to move 100% of those folks from the US to Mexico in just a couple of days ~ I don't think there's any significant shortage of used cars either!
Some have proposed making them walk out but that's too risky. We shouldn't be in the business of killing people ~ just getting them to go back to their own fine country ~ the world's 12th highest GDP in fact.
Compared to almost everywhere else Mexico is a great place to live. Unfortunately they have a number of social pathologies that only they can solve, and that's not going to happen any time soon if we keep letting them hide out in the USA.
I visited Mexican friends living in the Baja in Mexicali, just a few miles from the California border. The elderly father had an apartment in Calexia, which is in California. He actually lives in Mexico, but visits this apartment every two weeks to check the mail and make it look lived in. The power and the apartment, which was very nice, are free, courtesy of some government program. So, he’s getting multiple checks from social security and several programs to help the indigent or whatever.
The entire apartment complex, he said, was “occupied” by Mexicans who actually lived in Mexico, but were receiving welfare and other checks from America and California. I’m sure this wasn’t the only apartment complex that wasn’t even being used. The only real fraud they were perpetrating was that they didn’t actually live in California; but just traveled there to pick up checks.
One has to wonder why we’re doing all this for people who are not citizens, don’t have green cards and who actually live in another country. I’m guessing that there are thousands of Mexicans doing this. Best part? He was signed up for all of this by an Acorn operative. She told him, “Honey, I is gonna get you everything to which you is entitled.” He imitated her so I’m guessing that was exactly what was said.
I’m guessing that a large percentage of the Mexican Baja economy is due to welfare from California and the US government. How generous of us.
They go home to Mexico with their parents. They can be the lifeblood that will pull Mexico out of the sludge and turn it into a thriving country.
Many societies have done passably well with 2 or more classes of residents. Not that we need to do that, but classes, in and of themselves, are not a cause for concern.
They already have amnesty. living here, getting free healthcare, food, housing and no interest or low interest loans.
Obama want’s em legal,(but not by going through legal immigration) so demonrats can claim their votes.
And of course it would excuse his illegal family members...
Right, but not every metro-rail rider gets a perfunctory administrative hearing before they board, unlike illegals. And, unless you replace the entire Supreme Court, that's not going to change.
As I pointed out in another post, if you wanted to get it done in five years, you're talking about well over 6K people daily, everyday including Sunday. It would paralyze our court system for half a decade.
Wrong question. Shouldn't be "Why not" but rather "Why"; as in: "Why reward illegal behavior?"
I fully support legal immigration. America is a land of immigrants. As Bill Murray said, "We're the wretched refuse" of the world. But we're Americans.
Yes, enforce the law. Yes, eliminate welfare for illegals. Yes, secure the border. etc
I'm just trying to figure out a solution as to the illegals who are here already, living their lives among their neighbors, peacefully.
Kids like the honors student I described earlier are the kind of immigrants we welcome to America, when they arrive legally. Businessmen who employ Americans are the kind of immigrants we welcome, when they come legally. The elderly neighborhood doctor who overstayed his visa years ago, who now operates a neighborhood clinic, the only one for 50 miles - do we deport him, too?
Do we throw these people out, or do we give them a second (and last) chance?
"A" implies "one", but there are several here. That's OK.
Would anything short of deportation of illegal immigrants still be considered amnesty?
Yes.
Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens?
One at a time if need be.
What can actually be done?
See my model immigration law in bold below.
A partial solution
is necessarily incomplete and therefore does not actually solve the problem. Like a band-aid on a compound fracture, it may look like a good effort but will not address the whole problem and may in fact ignore the worst of it.
one that I think would work
By your own admission, only partially...
would be to allow anyone who is here illegally to come forward, on their own accord, by a date certain, and admit they are here illegally...The court would find them guilty of a felony, but the lowest class of felony...The individual would then be allowed to remain in the country legally...They would become permanent resident aliens, legal aliens, upon payment of the $5,000 fine and verification of compliance with the other terms of the punishment.
Great. Now we have a permanent underclass of low-grade felons. THWT.
I don’t claim that this would be a perfect solution, but I think it just might be part of the solution. It provides an incentive for illegals to come forward and be identified, but also imposes punishment for the crime they have committed by being here illegally. And it prohibits those people from ever becoming legal U.S. citizens.
I welcome your thoughts.
Here they are: ExGeeEye's Model Law on Illegal "Immigration"
1. Illegal aliens are to be detained upon detection and deported within twenty-four hours.
2. Any citizen knowingly employing, sheltering, concealing, or otherwise assisting (other than emergency medical care) an illegal alien shall suffer forfeiture of all property, real and personal, all assets, businesses, business licenses, and any other thing except his/her physical freedom and two changes of clothing; after which he/she may seek employment and start over.
3. Any non-citizen legally resident, acting as described in para 2 above, shall suffer the same penalty and be deported to his/her country of origin within 48 hours.
4. Any public official, in any branch of government, at any level, who under color of clemency, legal discretion, or other official privilege, shall obstruct, alter, or modify the swift application and extent of paras 1-3 above to any degree soever, shall suffer the same penalty and be summarily removed from office.
(That’s to keep judges from saying “ooooo, that’s too harsh” and governors etc. from handing out pardons to business-owner buddies.)
Someone has said it would take decades to detect and deport the illegals we have, even if no more came in. It reminds me of a story about Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France for a while. He once ordered that the roads of France were to be lined with trees, so that French soldiers could always march in the shade. His advisers replied that it would take twenty years to plant that many trees, and twenty more before they grew tall enough to provide the shade Napoleon sought. His answer to them is the same as mine to the people who talk about how long it would take to expel the illegals:
"Alors, il faut commencer toute de suite!"
"Well, then it must begin at once!"
“Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens?”
One bus load at a time... that’s how.
Moving them isn’t the problem. Identifying them is.
If the English could use boats to remove their troops from Dunkirk, then we could use our cars and trucks to remove these invaders from our country. I volunteer to take a few loads to the border.
They are here feloniously and need to be ejected from our country. Every one of them. All 20 million of them.
This will be the third second chance since Reagan. At some point the rule of law has to mean something. But why don’t we just let them stay and make a third world country out of us anyway? Obama is trying so hard to accomplish that, he could use the help. We don’t use our constitution anymore anyway so lets just be fair to everyone and let each person decide what our country should be. America will be over and then they will all stop coming anyway.
and of course you have reported these friends of yours to the proper US authorities? Alerted the Social Security Administration? The local county assiatence programs? etc? as to al this illegal activity your friends and their friends are up to, right?
Not Mexican, former Yugoslavians
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