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Can a good conservative be an atheist ? (vanity for intresting discussion: wife)

Posted on 04/29/2010 8:58:35 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative

Let me say first of all that I am a Christian with a strong faith in God. I grew up going to church with my grandpa. I accepted Jesus Christ into my life at a young age.

My wife was raised in a strict christian home. But I think that worked against her in some ways. I think certain people in her family turned her off on religion at points along the way. She is now an atheist. She is a great mom to our 16 month old twins. She is an awesome wife. I love her so much and I will never let it destroy our marriage. So I have been very open and tolerant of her views while praying for her like crazy at the same time.

She has been mostly apolitical and I guess she has been more intrested in recent months watching Fox News with me and listening to the radio. She is very much against abortion. She knows that Obama is a disaster for this country.

It came up in another thread. We have been watching Glenn Beck. and my wife likes him at times. But he really loses her when he goes off into a deep religious discussion. Here I am trying to get her to see and understand things that are going on, and religion comes up, and she sort of tunes out and changes the subject.

That got me thinking. I know this country was founded by men of faith. I know many of us conservatives are religious. But can't a person be a conservative, pro life and atheist ? and still love their country just as much as I do ? ... How many out there are like my wife ?

I tend to think so for sure. But at the same time. I don't want to remove our religious traditions either. They are very important. Our country needs them now more than ever. But I think people like my wife are important to our cause as well. Men and women in their 20s, not religious, but conservative on many issues and they don't even label or know they are conservative. So I guess the problem is.. We can't slip into a politically correct echo chamber, but at the same time we must carefully equate our christian traditions with religious freedom for all. Our rights come from God. and that includes the right not to be religious of course.

what do you say ?

TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: scientism
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To: terycarl

Ah, post #52 for proselytizing a particular sect as being the only “TRUE” one over all others.

I am actually somewhat impressed with the restraint of other posters, I expected it to happen sooner.

141 posted on 04/30/2010 12:09:38 AM PDT by Loyal Sedition
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To: greeneyes

The absence of The Lord will have the presence of Satan. It is a choice and normally rejected or accepted based on pride or trial. Sometimes it takes time.

142 posted on 04/30/2010 12:12:03 AM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: eyedigress

>>> The absence of The Lord will have the presence of Satan. It is a choice and normally rejected or accepted based on pride or trial.

Nicely put.

If God does not exist, no amount of faith from man can make Him so.

If God does exist, no atheist will escape His judgment.

Belief or faith has no power in and of itself.
It is a choice of whom you will follow.

143 posted on 04/30/2010 12:23:40 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: Loyal Sedition

Is this your favorite site?

Where does it rank?

144 posted on 04/30/2010 12:28:24 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney-"I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there")
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To: eyedigress

That is a good point.

145 posted on 04/30/2010 12:36:49 AM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: terycarl

....”if you absolutely believe in the lord, then do what He told you to do, join and participate in the church that He founded.....the CATHOLIC church....none other, only Catholicism is the way of the cross”

I was in a Baptist Sunday School Class many years back. They started talking about those misguided Catholics, and how the Baptist beliefs were superior. I stopped going to that church. I don’t think it’s right to malign other people’s religion. I go to a non-denominational service now.

146 posted on 04/30/2010 12:45:45 AM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: ansel12

Favorite for news links two days before the local networks get around to them. ;-)

Favorite for exposing liberal lunacy in detail.

Not any sort of favorite when “Christians” use it to attack anyone who is not a member of their particular sect.

Favorite for getting political news details the mainstream media leave out.

Favorite for collecting some excellent quotes from the founding fathers and early debates.

Not such a favorite for the intolerance so often displayed here, particularly sectarian religious based intolerance.

Least favorite when the arrogant proselytizing gets going.

Hard to come back to some times, particularly when hypocrites demand that we ARE or MUST BE a “Christian” nation, that I must be a Christian, or we are doomed.
I find that sort of thread repulsive, I count Buddhist, some who’s exact religion is unknown to me, and even a Muslim among my friends.
All are Americans who put their neighbors and country ahead of their religion.
I do not view their religion as my problem to cure, or a reason to wish them ill.
So long as the adherents of any religion leave me alone, I am happy to leave them alone.
If they threaten me, or get a notion to run my life, I will exercise my natural right to defend myself.

Overall, probably about 3-4 out of my favorite five.

147 posted on 04/30/2010 1:05:44 AM PDT by Loyal Sedition
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To: Loyal Sedition

So, you rejeckct.

148 posted on 04/30/2010 1:14:29 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney-"I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there")
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To: eyedigress

Can you prove that?

No, you cannot, anymore than you can “Prove” that belief in the Christian “God” is any more valid than belief in Odin, Buddha, Pan, Apollo, Ho-Tai, or any other myth figure.

I’ve had 55 years to make my determination, nothing you do can force me to change my mind.
If you think your personal myth figure is going to strike me, judge me, or otherwise affect me, enjoy your delusions.

149 posted on 04/30/2010 1:29:20 AM PDT by Loyal Sedition
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Did your wife become an atheist after you married?

150 posted on 04/30/2010 2:46:59 AM PDT by bjorn14 (Woe to those who call good evil and evil good. Isaiah 5:20)
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To: so_real

I’m an athiest, and have been for about as long as I can remember. I can state unequivocably that it’s very possible to be a conservative without being religious.

I think it’s very difficult for a person of faith to identify with nonbelievers. More difficult, I think, than identifying with people of other religions. A person of any religion has a spiritual presence that defines life’s guidelines. So a Christian can look at a Hindu and at least say, “yeah, we’re on different teams.” whereas an Athiest isn’t even playing the game.

The assumption that an athiest can have no moral guidance is flat wrong. When you really think about it, there are as many varieties of Christianity as there are Christians. Every one has their own set of beliefs that, while mostly the same, vary slightly. Every religious person, in essence, decides the rules they want to follow according to their personal tastes.

And it’s so with athiests as well. We all have a different set of values that defines right and wrong. I don’t kill because it’s wrong to take a life. I don’t steal because it’s wrong to take from others. I don’t believe in heaven or he’ll, but I’m driven every day to make this world a better place for my children and theirs. I get no reward for my efforts in life other than knowing that my work will improve their lives. Frankly, that’s enough.

While the bible does a great job at outlining the rules for creating a successful society, these rules aren’t created by god, so much as enumerated by him.

In much the same way, the Declaration of Independance enumerates a few rights by stating that ‘all men are endowed by their creator...’ the point of that statement wasn’t so much to specify God as the grantee of our rights but to imply that our rights are transcendental, beyond the grasp of Government, and that no government has the right to infringe upon them.

Conservatism is not a faith nor does it require faith. It is a political ideology based on approaching issues with reason and temperance without getting trapped by emotion and guilt... Which come to think about it, kind of defines Athiesm as well.

151 posted on 04/30/2010 3:50:06 AM PDT by TequilaJinx
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To: TequilaJinx

Very well stated, and I share the sentiments.

152 posted on 04/30/2010 3:57:41 AM PDT by LanPB01
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To: Safrguns

But someone hasn’t stolen your wallet except in your own mind.

Your freedom wasn’t granted to you by anyone or anything. It’s yours for the claiming. You don’t have to be subservient to any entity to have it or to keep it, and being subservient to an entity will not guarantee it. If its taken away by a party here on earth, acknowledging God will not give it back.

Everything belongs to you that you are good enough to get. Everything does not belong to you that you let slip away.

There are no two different meanings of existence. Existence is existence. Your existence has an end. Mysticism is the great mind-killer. It gives you a big huge excuse not to think logically, until you no longer exist. A equals A. No amount of wishing will make it not so.

But of course, your opinion is also a part of your freedom.

The reason this is important is the left exploits our reliance on mysticism to their advantage. Its the ultimate justification and excuse for every overspent unfunded social mandate ever conceived. Its the root of the problem.

The reasoning runs like this:

“You are not worthy, so the collective (substitute church or state) will help you redeem yourself. How do you redeem yourself? You need to sacrifice yourself. How do you sacrifice yourself? You need to give your life. Don’t want to give your life? Ok then you need to give your time. Can’t give your time? Ok then you need to give your money. Can’t give your money? Ok then well of course you will allow taxes to be higher, because after all, you are not worthy to begin with, and you need to be redeemed. How can you say government should be small and we should let people do whatever they want? That’s not responsible! After all, not only are you not worthy, neither is anyone else. You not going to allow yourself to be sacrificed and not ask everyone else to be sacrifice would you? That wouldn’t be fair to you would it?” [end of example]

And it all starts with the insidious concept smuggled into religion that 1.) you are basically not worthy, you are in need of “redemption.” 2.) you need to surrender your mind and your ability to reason to some higher “feeling” -based altruistic “good.” (substitute church or God or state, it doesn’t matter the effect is the same.) Notice this both provides you the justification not to think and a reason to feel good about your decision not to think, and an excuse for the left to institutionalize theft by the government from individuals.

And conservatives and the Right fall for it every time, because of deep guilt and failure to acknowledge their own sovereignty over their own mind, not owing to anyone or anything. There are countless examples, too numerous for this format. The Left is not anti-religion, like many conservatives think. The Left loves religion. Its their claim to your life and your mind.

153 posted on 04/30/2010 4:13:23 AM PDT by NYCslicker
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To: Persevero

Emotion and reason are present in both.

The question is what part do they play. If you use emotion to form your view of how the universe is put together, its seems that’s very shaky ground.

If you walk out to your car, and you have a long trip planned, and the tank is empty, all the praying and wishing in the world won’t fill the tank. You need to put gas in that car to take the trip. Only reason will tell you what’s needed to make the car go, not emotionalism.

In the same way, when you think about the universe, you can think it would be great that someone was in charge, you can wish it, you can want it, but the level of your wishing and wanting does not determine the structure of atoms, the nature of gravity, etc. That stuff is found out by using reason to figure things out.

The only way to square this problem and still believe in God is, apply one set of rules to the universe, and another set of rules to your emotional and spiritual thinking about the universe. Its a way of perpetuating two different sets of rules in order to change the part of the universe where you don’t like what you observe, the emotional and spiritual realm, to something more in line with your emotions, the philosophical equivalent of wishing for gas to make your care move.

154 posted on 04/30/2010 5:00:39 AM PDT by NYCslicker
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To: hout8475

When she has her glasses on she also has just a touch of a young Sarah Palin in there too...

155 posted on 04/30/2010 5:05:19 AM PDT by RockinRight (The last 15 months have been a sh*tty deal for America.)
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To: TequilaJinx

Excellent Post
I don’t ‘believe’ myself to be an atheist - but Ditto

156 posted on 04/30/2010 5:24:41 AM PDT by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: FredZarguna

Yes but what does the first amendment say about religion? Here is a quote “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. “

“shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

Gee they seem to want to prohibit it when ever they can. For instance, in high schools, or if the 10 Commandments (which our laws derive from) displayed at a court house. Moreover, they also violate our rights by saying in order to protest we have to get a permit. Total B.S.! Ditto any gun laws too.

157 posted on 04/30/2010 5:28:42 AM PDT by Sprite518
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I apologize, I’m fairly new to FreeRepublic’s reply system. I should have replied to the original poster, but must’ve clicked the wrong link. I also wrote my last post late at night on my iphone...

I’d like to extend my thoughts on the subject a bit.

When we discuss the Conservative platform regarding “moral” issues, Conservative Atheists such as myself often maintain the same values but for different reasons.

I’m Pro-Life, not because I believe that everyone is born with a soul, but because I believe that it demeans society. When we allow abortion, we’re telling people that adult actions don’t have consequences. That responsibility can be ignored in favor of fulfilling your personal goals. It promotes selfishness and imprudence.

Further, I don’t believe that, in many cases, it’s really the woman’s decision. I believe that plenty of abortions occur because the would-be father convinces the mother into it either by persuasion or abandonment. I refuse to let men off the hook for their actions.

Finally, I don’t believe it’s necessary. Yes, I understand that there are medical reasons, cases of rape or what have-you that may make it necessary. But to me, the frequency of those cases are so rare that it doesn’t constitute full legalization.

The Death Penalty:
I believe killing is wrong, in any sense. Just as I refuse to support abortion, I can’t in good conscious support the death penalty.

When we speak of the right and wrong of killing, what we’re really talking about is justification. If someone breaks into my house and I shoot them, while my actions are justifiable, they are still wrong. Justification does not change the morality of an action. As a human being, I have to be willing to admit that I’m capable of committing evil just as much as good.

Christians will point to the Bible and say, “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth” meaning that the punishment shall not exceed the crime, therefore killing a killer is fair game. But it doesn’t make it right, it only defines a justifiable response.

Gay Marriage: Ok, so I’m to the left (apparently) on this one. I have no problem with gay marriage. If two consenting adults want to spend their lives together, it’s none of my business. I’ve never actually heard a solid argument against Gay Marriage that didn’t use religion as its core.

Ok, maybe I rambled a bit too much there, but I hope I was able to illustrate that an Atheist’s moral compass doesn’t differ too far from those of you with religious beliefs.

And for the record, I despise Carl Sagan and his ilk about as much as I do Pat Robertson.

158 posted on 04/30/2010 6:04:16 AM PDT by TequilaJinx
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Have her read “Witness” by Whittaker Chambers.

159 posted on 04/30/2010 6:22:58 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: Mariner
What about those of us who believe we can define what our rights ought to be, within the context of our own moral judgments...and are willing to kill those who try to take them away if their transgressions are sufficiently egregious?

Then they are subject to either anarchy or majority rule.

160 posted on 04/30/2010 6:25:00 AM PDT by randita (Visit for a list of vulnerable DEM and must hold GOP House seats.)
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