Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Obama is not a Native US Citizen
Bouvier's Law Dictionary ^ | 1928 | William Edward Saldwin

Posted on 05/14/2010 3:21:18 PM PDT by bushpilot1

Meandering through my 1928 Edition of Bouvier's Law Dictionary on page 833, Native, Native Citizen is defined:

Those born in a country, of parents who are citizens.

If Obama does not meet the standards of a native citizen how can he be a natural born citizen.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: article2section1; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; citizen; citizenship; eligibility; ineligible; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obama; usurper
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 751-753 next last
The definition continues: There is no distinction between native born...and..natural born.

Here is the copy of John Jay's letter to George Washington stating..only a natural born citizen be given command of the American Army

jay hand letter

Lets go to the Colonial period in Virginia depicting the difference between a native born and an English born immigrant:

"The society that developed in the Chesapeake was so unique that British officials often made explicit distinctions between the English-born and the “natives” or "creoles” born in Virginia.

A trend developed where native-born whites were increasingly singled out by English writers as “natives,” “Virginians,” and “creoles” as they achieved dominance in a colonial government previously controlled by English-born immigrants"

page 11 http://research.history.org/Files/Archaeo/ResPubs/Ethnicity%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf

Obama is not a native, native born or natural born citizen in the US.

1 posted on 05/14/2010 3:21:19 PM PDT by bushpilot1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

http://research.history.org/Files/Archaeo/ResPubs/Ethnicity%20and%20Identity%20Formation.pdf


2 posted on 05/14/2010 3:22:00 PM PDT by bushpilot1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

I don’t know whether or not he’s a US citizen but I DO KNOW that he’s NOT AN AMERICAN.


3 posted on 05/14/2010 3:23:40 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Politics is only about money and the power to control it. ALL of it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHxb_vZe7Ao&feature=email


4 posted on 05/14/2010 3:26:08 PM PDT by 353FMG (ISLAM -- America's road to destruction.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1
Obama does not meet the standards of a native citizen how can he be a natural born citizen.

Amazing! I'll expect this astounding revelation to have him out of office by dark tonight.

No? It won't?

Maybe you should contact a lunatic dentist with this astounding information.

5 posted on 05/14/2010 3:27:02 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

It was very clever for probammies to deflect this issue to simply citiizenship rather than natural born citizenship. The latter is easily resolved, he isn’t an NBC, the former may be true but we cannot know until we see the long form.

Regardless, this issue will not send him out on his arse.....it would have happened by now.


6 posted on 05/14/2010 3:30:14 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (END THE WAR ON LIBERTY!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

If a female American citizen has a baby in the U.S., does that make the child an American citizen?


7 posted on 05/14/2010 3:35:00 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FlingWingFlyer

Ditto that.


8 posted on 05/14/2010 3:36:01 PM PDT by Swede Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher

Actually, by what authority does he have to seal his records? If he can’t prove his eligibility,(by releasing the long form), then he shouldn’t have the authority to seal any of his records.

Blame Pelosi. Didn’t she sign the paper certifying that he was eligible to be the candidate. Did she see the long form? Maybe we should go after her.


9 posted on 05/14/2010 3:36:15 PM PDT by IM2MAD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1
I'll give you a serious answer and that is the Supremes want to avoid this issue like the plague. Unlike the justices in Honduras, the court here will not step in to say the President should be removed.

I for one believe he was born in Hawaii. This is because I am sure Hillary had his FBI file in the back of her closet and it would have come out if he really wasn't. That would end the discussion for the vast majority of people because they interpret "natural born" as being born in the US as opposed, I guess, to being adopted. However, as you are pointing out it is a legal term of art that conveys a different meaning than what is the common interpretaion. The court could agree that it meant born of US parents but no judge is wanting to take that step for fear of igniting riots.

10 posted on 05/14/2010 3:39:29 PM PDT by Armando Guerra
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

William Edward Baldwin is correct.

Bouvier’s Law Dictionary may be protected by copyright law.


11 posted on 05/14/2010 3:44:33 PM PDT by bushpilot1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

Some crackpot judge will deem that his tenure as POTUS qualifies him a citizen retroactively.

Or some such nonsense.


12 posted on 05/14/2010 3:45:20 PM PDT by Retired Greyhound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner

I see the AFTER-birther hookers on crack are already here.


13 posted on 05/14/2010 3:46:40 PM PDT by stockpirate ("......When the government fears the people you have liberty." Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate
hookers on crack are already here.

Tell your mom it's dinner time and get her away from the computer.

14 posted on 05/14/2010 3:48:16 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate

Hey! Let’s get some BO re-distribution of crack movement going!


15 posted on 05/14/2010 3:49:22 PM PDT by newfreep (Palin/DeMint 2012 - Bolton: Secy of State)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun

The point is not whether he’s a citizen (although even that’s in doubt) but whether he’s what is required to be President - a natural born citizen. And, quite clearly, on this definition he’s not. It requires someone to be born in the U.S.A. of U.S. citizen parents. Quite patently Obama fails this test. The birth certificate is irrelevant in this regard.

I live in Australia and used to think that this requirement, falling as it does on someone’s background something they have no control over, was unfair and unreasonable. I’ve now changed my mind.

In any case, its not what anyone thinks of it, its what it is unless and until its changed and HE FAILS THE TEST.


16 posted on 05/14/2010 3:53:21 PM PDT by Nipfan (The desire to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it - H L Mencken)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1
Some persistent freepers have noticed this fact but it seems to get lost in the noise on the various bc threads. By his own admission, Barack’s father was a Kenyan born British national, a foreigner, ergo Barack cannot be a natural born citizen, and was therefore never qualified to hold the office of President of the United States. No verbal contortions or legal arguments can change those simple facts, and it's Obama’s achilles heal. It's also the basis to have Nancy Pelosi ejected from the Senate and possibly face criminal prosecution for fraudulently certifying his eligibility. A crime of monumental proportions has been committed on the people of the United States.
17 posted on 05/14/2010 3:55:38 PM PDT by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner

Too funny, AFTER-birthers are so sensitive.


18 posted on 05/14/2010 3:58:48 PM PDT by stockpirate ("......When the government fears the people you have liberty." Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: FlingWingFlyer

BINGO!


19 posted on 05/14/2010 3:58:58 PM PDT by GoCards ("We eat therefore we hunt...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner
Maybe you should contact a lunatic dentist with this astounding information.

lol!

20 posted on 05/14/2010 4:01:37 PM PDT by Jean S
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1
Obama is not a native, native born or natural born citizen in the US.

Are you intentionally confusing natural-born and native-born?

Native-born relates to where a person was born. Natural-born relates to who his parents are. End of story. Jay's letter and the Constitution refer to natural-born.

But you refer to native-born. Inquiring minds might wish to understand why you do this? Is it from ignorance, or something else?

ML/NJ

21 posted on 05/14/2010 4:02:50 PM PDT by ml/nj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher

“Regardless, this issue will not send him out on his arse.....”

.
Simply because we have congresscritters without b*lls. Don’t know how much longer this country will exist but we are going through some historic moments. I wonder if the next POTUS will be from Pakistan.


22 posted on 05/14/2010 4:07:27 PM PDT by 353FMG (ISLAM -- America's road to destruction.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner

LOL, rolling on the floor here.. but you know, it will only work if they also donate $. We just $10 more for Orlystmas.


23 posted on 05/14/2010 4:08:37 PM PDT by mnehring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun

Today it does. At the time obama was born the laws were ever so slightly more strict.


24 posted on 05/14/2010 4:18:27 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Armando Guerra

“...I am sure Hillary had his FBI file in the back of her closet...”

.
I am sure that many more still do. A person’s history should be easily traceable in an open society as ours. I am pretty sure that McCane knows details in Obama’s background — he ran against him for POTUS, for crying out loud.


25 posted on 05/14/2010 4:25:25 PM PDT by 353FMG (ISLAM -- America's road to destruction.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Armando Guerra

“...I am sure Hillary had his FBI file in the back of her closet...”

.
I am sure that many more still do. A person’s history should be easily traceable in an open society as ours. I am pretty sure that McCane knows details in Obama’s background — he ran against him for POTUS, for crying out loud.


26 posted on 05/14/2010 4:27:39 PM PDT by 353FMG (ISLAM -- America's road to destruction.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Nipfan
The point is not whether he’s a citizen (although even that’s in doubt) but whether he’s what is required to be President - a natural born citizen. And, quite clearly, on this definition he’s not.

Yet that definition is not code, nor has it ever existed as the US legal definition of natural born citizen.

It requires someone to be born in the U.S.A. of U.S. citizen parents.

This definition, sure. By English Common Law (which is also a foundation and source for the legal system of the US - it's not just Vattel as is often claimed here), jus soli is sufficient.

The issue is not what is a potential definition of a natural born citizen; the issue is what is the legal definition within the US. Note that in United States v. Wong Kim Ark the majority position of the Supreme Court held that English Common Law held sway, and thus jus soli is the law of the land.

It's also interesting to note that the dissent in the Ark case proffered Vattel's position as the proper position; however, since that was the minority it has no legal bearing or force and is secondary to the majority position, jus soli - natural born citizen by virtue of birth on US soil.

I'm sure I'll have dozens jump in here and tell me I'm wrong and don't understand, that I'm an idiot or Obamabot. Happened many times in the past. Of course, not a single one can tell me why the minority position of Ark is definitely the proper position, when it was rejected by the majority of the Supreme Court in the decision of just what is a natural born citizen. Lots of dancing and links, but no one is able to get around this very simple fact: in the case dealing with the birth on US soil of a child of foreign parents, the Supreme Court ruled - and has upheld in subsequent cases - that jus soli is the law of the land when it comes to Natural Born Citizenship.

27 posted on 05/14/2010 4:29:31 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar
It's also the basis to have Nancy Pelosi ejected from the Senate

Nancy Pelosi has never been a Senator.

28 posted on 05/14/2010 4:33:30 PM PDT by iowamark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ml/nj

Judge John Bouvier, who first penned this Law Dictionary in 1822 states there is no distinction between a native born and natural born.

He defines a native or native citizen: those born in a country of parents who are citizens.

The Judge is defining a natural born citizen and a native born citizen as those born in a country of parents who are citizens.

He states on page 833...there is no distinction (difference- I looked it up) between a native born and natural born.

Both must have parents who are citizens.


29 posted on 05/14/2010 4:33:56 PM PDT by bushpilot1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: FlingWingFlyer
I don’t know whether or not he’s a US citizen but I DO KNOW that he’s NOT AN AMERICAN.

From what I've seen, he is un-American.

30 posted on 05/14/2010 4:39:43 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

Bouvier's Law Dictionary and The Federal Income Tax, 1989 Mixed Media Sculpture


31 posted on 05/14/2010 4:40:50 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: STARWISE; LucyT; melancholy

NBC ping


32 posted on 05/14/2010 4:41:53 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: iowamark

You are correct, factual error on my part. But the rest stands.


33 posted on 05/14/2010 4:42:17 PM PDT by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1
Judge John Bouvier, who first penned this Law Dictionary in 1822 states there is no distinction between a native born and natural born.

Your judge is a weak reference. And Law Dictionaries don't impress me very much. (Black's is incredibly weak.) I'd refer you to a post I made some time ago of the entries from the Oxford English Dictionary but the images I posted no longer exist. (Send me an email address via FReep mail and I send you copies.) Trust me. Your reference is wrong and muddies the waters.

ML/NJ

34 posted on 05/14/2010 4:45:31 PM PDT by ml/nj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Seizethecarp; LucyT; Fred Nerks; null and void; stockpirate; PhilDragoo; Candor7; rxsid; ...
Ping.............

Obama is not a Native US Citizen

Thank you, Seizthecarp.

35 posted on 05/14/2010 4:46:59 PM PDT by melancholy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: PugetSoundSoldier
This definition, sure. By English Common Law (which is also a foundation and source for the legal system of the US - it's not just Vattel as is often claimed here), jus soli is sufficient.

I don't think so Obot. You are quite wrong on both accounts.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29342214/Ramsay-Natural-Born-Citizen-1789

36 posted on 05/14/2010 4:53:50 PM PDT by patlin (1st SCOTUS of USA: "Human life, from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

Is there a link on line for that 1828 version?


37 posted on 05/14/2010 4:55:06 PM PDT by patlin (1st SCOTUS of USA: "Human life, from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1
Obama is not a native, native born or natural born citizen in the US.

That's the understanding of the Kenyan Parliament. See my tagline.

38 posted on 05/14/2010 4:57:19 PM PDT by bgill (how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the POTUS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PugetSoundSoldier
The issue is not what is a potential definition of a natural born citizen; the issue is what is the legal definition within the US. Note that in United States v. Wong Kim Ark the majority position of the Supreme Court held that English Common Law held sway, and thus jus soli is the law of the land.

I do not mind people posting their OPINIONS on this - but DO NOT state that the legal definition of "natural born citizen" is via JUS SOLI alone. The ARK decision DID NOT settle that question. It DID affirm that ARK was a CITIZEN, however.

From the declaratory paragraph of the decision:

The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the SINGLE QUESTION STATED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS OPINION, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, BECOMES AT THE TIME OF HIS BIRTH A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.

The QUESTION posed at the beginning of the decision:

The QUESTION presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States BY VIRTUE OF THE FIRST CLAUSE OF THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION,

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

39 posted on 05/14/2010 4:58:52 PM PDT by Lmo56
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate
Too funny, AFTER-birthers are so sensitive.

Even more amazing to see so called conservative FReepers rejoice in the fact that the pos in the WH is ineligible and laugh at the fact that none of our representatives has the guts to stand up and do anything about it.

40 posted on 05/14/2010 4:58:59 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM, where are you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: patlin
I know you say I'm quite wrong, but can you point to a Supreme Court ruling - or even a definition in statute - that runs counter to jus soli? That upholds Vattel's position? Barring that, it may be your belief that it should be changed but the legal and - because of the Supreme Court - constitutional position is that of jus soli: natural born by virtue of being born on US soil.
41 posted on 05/14/2010 5:02:38 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

I see the usual Bambi ball-gargler brigade leaders are out today.

Where’s the rest of the Stockholm-Syndrome conservatives?


42 posted on 05/14/2010 5:09:09 PM PDT by Blado (Quo Warranto, Bambi? Legal disclaimer- all criticism of white male half only)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IM2MAD
Blame Pelosi. Didn’t she sign the paper certifying that he was eligible to be the candidate. Did she see the long form? Maybe we should go after her.

I've been saying that for a while. If the citizens don't have standing against the POTUS, then we surely do against her.

43 posted on 05/14/2010 5:12:47 PM PDT by bgill (how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the POTUS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Lmo56
Selective quoting from Ark I see...;)

Here's a bit more from the majority decision that supports jus soli because of our heritage of English common law:

It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born. III. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.

The Court fully held that just soli held well after the Declaration of Independence and prevailed under the constitution as originally established. Meaning since the founding of these United States.

The Ark case is the definitive case relating to natural born citizenship via jus soli and it is unequivocal, by the statement above of the court: from the English common law foundations of the Nation, natural born citizenship is a function of birthplace, and that held continuously from the colonies through the Declaration of Independence, the Revolution, and the later writing and passage of the constitution.

44 posted on 05/14/2010 5:13:50 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

bump


45 posted on 05/14/2010 5:15:58 PM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping List-freepmail me to be included or removed. <{{{><)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Armando Guerra
I am sure Hillary had his FBI file in the back of her closet and it would have come out if he really wasn't.

Hill was shut up and I mean SHUT UP. Notice how she's but a mere shadow figure now. She might have had the goods on him but "they" had bigger goods on her and Bill. I suspect "they" presented her with an offer she couldn't refuse like she plays nice or it's orange suit time.

46 posted on 05/14/2010 5:17:57 PM PDT by bgill (how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the POTUS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate

They’re Hussein’s Choom Gang.


47 posted on 05/14/2010 5:22:05 PM PDT by bgill (how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the POTUS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Las Vegas Ron
You just hit the nail on the head.

“rejoice in the fact that the pos in the WH is ineligible and laugh “

This is the reason I know they are trolls.

It must be a nightmare to exist in their kool-aid washed brains. I almost feel sorry for them. Almost.

48 posted on 05/14/2010 5:23:52 PM PDT by Aurorales (I will not be ridiculed into silence)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: PugetSoundSoldier
Lest I remind you that Supreme Court opinions do NOT change the law and they are not set in concrete. The laws on the books well after WKA are a testament to that. It wasn't until after 1936 that dual citizenship was even a possibility, but then again, it wasn't adopted as law either. Children still followed the condition of the father unless born out of wedlock. Thus, it wasn't jus soli that was definitive in defining citizenship at birth, it was jus sanguinis and it is easily available for consumption at the US Library of Congress.

I understand this concept is hard for those of you to understand, but just because some words were changed in Title 8, that is available to read online, without actual legislation being passed does not make it law.

Ramsay was a member of the constitutional convention as well as a signer of the constitution and his dissertation is more credible to the intent of the framers than some rogue justice(appointed by the only other usurper) who ignored his own ruling, in the landmark case of Elk v Wilkins that held the civil rights act & the 14th Amendment to be constitutional, for some progressive political agenda.

And let's not forget Grey's later decisions that led to great monetary gain. Decisions that have since been overturned.

49 posted on 05/14/2010 5:26:35 PM PDT by patlin (1st SCOTUS of USA: "Human life, from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner; bushpilot1
Maybe you should contact a lunatic dentist with this astounding information.

I take for granted that you are very happy as to who is "occupying" the White House, and that you popped the champagne bottle when it happened and for sure you want to keep him there, indefinitely???

50 posted on 05/14/2010 5:29:57 PM PDT by danamco (")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 751-753 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson