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Led Zeppelin sued for alleged plagiarism of Dazed and Confused (Jake Holmes claims authorship)
Guardian UK ^ | Wednesday 30 June 2010 12.11 BST | Sean Michaels

Posted on 07/01/2010 12:00:52 PM PDT by a fool in paradise

...In documents filed on Monday, Holmes cited a 1967 copyright registration for Dazed and Confused, renewed in 1995. That song... was released in 1967 on the San Francisco-born musician's debut album.

...the path that leads from Holmes to Page is very well known. As documented by Perfect Sound Forever magazine, Holmes opened for Page's then-band, the Yardbirds, at a Greenwich Village gig in August 1967. "That was the infamous moment of my life when Dazed and Confused fell into the loving arms and hands of Jimmy Page," Holmes recalled in an interview with Will Shade. Yardbirds drummer Jim McCarty described going to a record shop the next day to buy a copy of Holmes's album. "We decided to do a version," he said. "We worked it out together with Jimmy contributing the guitar riffs in the middle."

...Page is credited as the track's sole songwriter. In 1990, Musician magazine quizzed Page on the subject, asking if Holmes was the original composer. "I don't know about all that," Page replied. "I'd rather not get into it because I don't know all the circumstances. What's he got – the riff or whatever? ... I haven't heard Jake Holmes so I don't know what it's all about anyway. Usually my riffs are pretty damn original."

It's not clear why Holmes has waited more than 40 years to file a plagiarism suit. Due to a statute of limitations, the 70-year-old can only claim royalties and damages for the past three years; and so he's doing just that, seeking actual damages, three years of song profits and statutory damages of $150,000 (£99,000) per infringement. As the track appears on everything from Led Zeppelin's debut to their BBC Sessions, as well as DVDs and compilations, that's no small sum. Enough, certainly, to fund a late retirement...

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Music/Entertainment
KEYWORDS: dazedandconfused; jakeholmes; lawsuit; ledzepplin
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1 posted on 07/01/2010 12:00:58 PM PDT by a fool in paradise
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To: 537cant be wrong; Aeronaut; bassmaner; Bella_Bru; Big Guy and Rusty 99; Brian Allen; cgk; ...

Hear the original version...

http://www.amazon.com/Dazed-and-Confused/dp/B000QN9VUG/ref=sr_tc_2_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1278010269&sr=1-2-entd


2 posted on 07/01/2010 12:02:54 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: a fool in paradise

The first two Zepplin albums are loaded with tunes and riffs they ripped off of other musicians. Biggest cover band in History :)


3 posted on 07/01/2010 12:03:32 PM PDT by Malsua
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To: a fool in paradise

Not to be mistaken for Bongwater (Kramer and Ann Magneson...)’s Dazed and Chinese

http://www.amazon.com/Dazed-and-Chinese/dp/B002C9I2U2/ref=dm_att_trk6?ie=UTF8&qid=1278010740&sr=1-2-ent


4 posted on 07/01/2010 12:04:04 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: a fool in paradise

huge Zeppelin fan for 30+ years- i saw this and laughed...the guy is suing almost a half century after the mighty Zeppelin recorded the song??


5 posted on 07/01/2010 12:04:32 PM PDT by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: a fool in paradise

40 years late. interesting.


6 posted on 07/01/2010 12:07:04 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Malsua

yes- all the marginal performers who couldn’t make their songs work are blaming Zeppelin for....making their songs work...


7 posted on 07/01/2010 12:07:32 PM PDT by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: a fool in paradise

Mr.Holmes is quite the musician......NOT!


8 posted on 07/01/2010 12:07:43 PM PDT by GQuagmire ( We are no longer Massholes)
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To: Malsua
They never made a secret of the influence of Mississippi Delta Blues in their early stuff.

If they ripped off riffs from some of those local artists they'd be as culpable as, what, half the popular musicians producing music in the late 50, early 60s?

9 posted on 07/01/2010 12:09:49 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Malsua
The first two Zepplin albums are loaded with tunes and riffs they ripped off of other musicians. Biggest cover band in History :)

As far as musical plagiarism is concerned, I've always considered Eric Clapton the Joe Biden of rock and roll.

10 posted on 07/01/2010 12:10:47 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Grizzled Bear

Rock ping


11 posted on 07/01/2010 12:11:29 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: a fool in paradise
It's not clear why Holmes has waited more than 40 years to file a plagiarism suit.

And I thought I procrastinated...holy cow..

12 posted on 07/01/2010 12:11:42 PM PDT by MissTed (Never buy products from ACME.)
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To: a fool in paradise

I remember years ago they were sued and lost to a black bluesman for a song they ripped off almost note for note. I can’t recall the song but it was one of my favorites.


13 posted on 07/01/2010 12:12:33 PM PDT by stockpirate ("......When the government fears the people you have liberty." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: a fool in paradise
I listened to all the samples for that album.

Pretty cool - a bit of retro psychedelic folk - slightly corny now, but not bad.

And obviously, Zeppelin ripped off the song. It's a bit late to bitch about it though.

14 posted on 07/01/2010 12:14:47 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: a fool in paradise

If that`s the original then it`s plagiarism.

If it were a university paper mr.page was turning in he`d get expelled .


15 posted on 07/01/2010 12:17:04 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: God luvs America

Property rights are property rights if they “worked”
or not. True?


16 posted on 07/01/2010 12:17:45 PM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: GQuagmire
Mr.Holmes is quite the musician......NOT!

Hey, I just read on Amazon that after Zeppelin ripped off his song, he became a television jingle writer. He wrote the Army's "Be all that you can be" jingle!

17 posted on 07/01/2010 12:18:01 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: God luvs America
yes- all the marginal performers who couldn’t make their songs work are blaming Zeppelin for

Willie Dixon and Joan Baez? Not that I like either but shrug.

18 posted on 07/01/2010 12:18:15 PM PDT by Malsua
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To: God luvs America

huge Zeppelin fan for 30+ years- i saw this and laughed...the guy is suing almost a half century after the mighty Zeppelin recorded the song??>>>>>>>>>

Maybe he’s been stoned and out of circulation for a few decades. Not uncommon in the music biz


19 posted on 07/01/2010 12:18:15 PM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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"Led Zepplin don't care about black people."

20 posted on 07/01/2010 12:21:29 PM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: skeeter

It’s one thing to cover ;killin’ floor’ and credit Howlin Wolf, it’s something else to change a few lyrics, call it ‘The Lemon Song’ and claim you wrote it.
ZZ Top has covered many Willie Dixon songs, but the credit him, Zep took ‘you Need love’ changed it a bit and called it their own.
Not to detract from Zep, or the fact that it was the great English musicians of the 60’s that FINALLY brought the attention and renumeration so long due to the American Delta and Chicago blues musicians.


21 posted on 07/01/2010 12:22:43 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: stockpirate

I think they were sued for Whole Lotta Love by Willie Dixon.


22 posted on 07/01/2010 12:23:33 PM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: a fool in paradise

Yeah, that’s the song all right. Looks as if JP just changed some words around and said yeah, it’s all mine.


23 posted on 07/01/2010 12:24:24 PM PDT by Bullish (Been to all 57 States.... Or is it 58?)
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To: a fool in paradise
Ya gotta take care that ya don't run-a-foul of Lars Ulrich's copyright on the D-cord...

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

24 posted on 07/01/2010 12:27:25 PM PDT by Cyber Ninja (Rebuke, Renounce, Repeal, Repeat,...)
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To: RedStateRocker
Right. As is the case with so many other things that outrage us today, what looks over the top now didn't seem nearly as bad 40 years ago.

Doesn't make it right, just sayin.

25 posted on 07/01/2010 12:34:21 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: a fool in paradise

Jake Holmes, nice first try, I listened, maybe a royalty or two, however:

Zeppelin made it what it is!


26 posted on 07/01/2010 12:42:46 PM PDT by ntmxx (I am not so sure about this misdirection!)
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To: Mr. Blonde

Right, that’s the song. I used to be in a LZ cover band doing covers of their covers.


27 posted on 07/01/2010 1:02:00 PM PDT by stockpirate ("......When the government fears the people you have liberty." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Doulos1

property right for music can be very ambiguous...there are some who claim Trampled Under Foot was stolen from stevie wonder’s superstition...


28 posted on 07/01/2010 1:15:37 PM PDT by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: Doulos1

property right for music can be very ambiguous...there are some who claim Trampled Under Foot was stolen from stevie wonder’s superstition...


29 posted on 07/01/2010 1:15:47 PM PDT by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: Doulos1

property right for music can be very ambiguous...there are some who claim Trampled Under Foot was stolen from stevie wonder’s superstition...


30 posted on 07/01/2010 1:15:57 PM PDT by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: ntmxx

So if we followed your logic, a large corporation could steal my invention/idea and make millions off of it, but I wouldn’t be justified in going after them because they marketed and sold it in large numbers?

What a thief does with the property he takes is irrelevant.


31 posted on 07/01/2010 1:20:39 PM PDT by The Unknown Republican
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To: a fool in paradise

So maybe that’s why they wouldn’t allow the song to be in the soundtrack of the movie DAZED AND CONFUSED. Page always said he didn’t care but the singer was supposedly the one who wouldn’t sign the release. Page was sorta’ like a republican voting “yes” when he knows his vote won’t matter.


32 posted on 07/01/2010 1:25:00 PM PDT by Terry Mross ( I voted for McCain and still feel like I wasted my vote. Vote third party - same results.)
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To: OnTheDress

Hey! That’s MY D chord ... I put an A and an E with it and have a three chord turnaround. ;o)


33 posted on 07/01/2010 1:40:52 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: a fool in paradise

Their entire first album is a collection of covers.
I assumed most people were aware of this.
(I have most of the original blues versions also. Always thought it would be neat to do a compilation of the originals in the same order as Zep I.)


34 posted on 07/01/2010 1:44:27 PM PDT by astyanax (Liberalism: Logic's retarded cousin.)
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To: astyanax

It isn’t that the song is a cover, it is not credited to the author.

And while Page in the citation steers the discussion to riffs, the lyrics and title are the basis of the suit.

The drum beat from the intro to Little Richard’s “Keep a knockin” was used to lead into “Rock and Roll”. But that’s just a section of something (and Keep a knockin” wasn’t even Richard’s song, it’d been recorded by Louis Jordan in the 1940s and dated all the way back to the 1920s).


35 posted on 07/01/2010 1:48:50 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: NewRomeTacitus; cripplecreek; creeping death; JeffreyH; RandallFlagg; cschroe; rollo tomasi; ...

A WTF Metal Ping!


36 posted on 07/01/2010 1:49:55 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear (Does not play well with others)
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To: a fool in paradise

I just always assumed that all those old blues numbers they “electrified” were older than dirt and in the public domain.
Claiming credit for writing them is quite different.


37 posted on 07/01/2010 1:54:29 PM PDT by astyanax (Liberalism: Logic's retarded cousin.)
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To: astyanax

I heard that some of the songs that Alan Lomax transcribed in his travels he gave credit to this or that singer so that person could get some money (even if Alan knew otherwise). Not so much taking someone’s song from somebody else as taking a “traditional/unknown” as ascribing an author.


38 posted on 07/01/2010 1:59:13 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: a fool in paradise

It would work as a theme song for the disengaged and disoriented chief executive.


Dazed and Confused

39 posted on 07/01/2010 3:07:00 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: a fool in paradise

Dazed and Confused

40 posted on 07/01/2010 3:16:00 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: The Unknown Republican

First, never let it be said he is not due some form of royalty or fee, Zeppelin improved on art, doing it differently, provided a value to society which they prefered, so you really think this matters 40 years later;

…uhm how does your thinking apply to Kelo vs. New London Development Corp


41 posted on 07/01/2010 3:35:40 PM PDT by ntmxx (I am not so sure about this misdirection!)
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To: ntmxx

Buddy...we aren’t talking eminent domain here...we are talking straight up Intellectual Property Theft by private citizens. Not related one bit.

But on the subject of Kelo...yeah, it’s crap.


42 posted on 07/01/2010 6:10:11 PM PDT by The Unknown Republican
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To: a fool in paradise

I’m pretty sure I saw the Yardbirds/Page play this live because Jimmy Page whipped out the ol violin bow and started sawing away on his guitar and the crowd went wild. One feature of the live Dazed and Confused was the violin bow which mightily impressed the stoned hordes. In fact you had to be high to dream up the stunt in the first place

I was always a staunch Yardbirds fan (the local pizzeria jukebox had their singles) but unfortunately only got to see that last corrupted edition with Jimmy Page and no Jeff Beck


43 posted on 07/01/2010 7:41:30 PM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: The Unknown Republican

Okay, again, I believe he should get some form or royalty or fee for his contribution; if any.

I can appreciate intellectual property, yet when a creator has limitations, this type of issue may be more about ethics than theft. While the words are different, can the same be said of the different instruments regarding notes, tones or other variants? I believe there were no drums in Jake’s version, or does this boil down to copying a 3, 5, 7 cord riff. Such as Jake was that good, as Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple doing “Smoke on the Water.”

Now if Jake could argue he was as good as Bonham, Plant, Page or Jones rolled into a whole product; and that he could show he was directly harmed (because I think Jake went toward different creative endeavors) then I might be persuaded on this.


44 posted on 07/01/2010 7:57:10 PM PDT by ntmxx (I am not so sure about this misdirection!)
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To: dennisw
Speaking of which, when WILL the Yardbirds stage a reunion show someplace?


45 posted on 07/02/2010 8:18:53 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: a fool in paradise

Good photo of Relf and Beck. A version of the Yardbirds tours lead by Jim McCarty and Chris Dreja. Some of their new versions of old Yardbird tunes are very good.


46 posted on 07/02/2010 10:55:41 AM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: dennisw

These are all documented, I like zep but they ripped off a ton of music, here are the songs side by side, you’ll be shocked !!

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zThdTAWQFAQ

Honestly, they took probably 50% of their songs from other people without giving them credit, give those a listen, you’ll be totally suprised man


47 posted on 07/02/2010 10:58:44 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: dennisw

That shot is from the movie Blow Up. At one point it was proposed that they would use the Velvet Underground but Warhol and the band never did go to England.

The Yardbirds play a knock off of Train Kept A Rollin’ in that clip (I think they changed the lyrics for the film).


48 posted on 07/02/2010 11:00:28 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: a fool in paradise

As Martin Mull once sang, “it’s just licks off of records that I’ve learned.”


49 posted on 07/02/2010 11:04:31 AM PDT by Poser (Enjoying tasty animals for 58 years)
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To: Scythian

Oh, and Part 3, even Stairway to heaven was ripped off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5uMQDlKn8g


50 posted on 07/02/2010 11:04:31 AM PDT by Scythian
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