Skip to comments.Thoughts on a good carry gun (caliber, make) and holster type.
Posted on 08/13/2010 9:46:25 AM PDT by Pessimist
Seems like a bit of a slow news day, so I thought I'd crank out my first vanity.
I've been shooting for a couple of years now (since around October of '08 - go figure) and I'm looking at getting my CCW. I'd like some opinions of caliber / make and also holster options and ramifications.
I am a wheel gun fan, .357, but he has a .45. We ran across a deal on 185 Gr hollow points in .45, to me a deal. The problem I have, I qualified on the 45 in the Army, is how it effects how the gun is shot in a situation where you have to have to fire more than one round.
By the way Milt Sparks has a six month lead time so order early!
Speaking as an NRA Instructor with 21+ years of experience; as a former Law Enforcement Officer and as a former US Army Infantry Captain, Ill give you some feedback and you can take it or leave it.
First off, I wont even join a thread like this. You are going to get a ton of uninformed abeit will meaning replies.
Choosing a firearm is a lot like choosing a mate. Ya sorta gotta TOUCH them before you make a decision! So whatever advice you get, go to a gun show and FIND that exact model firearm and handle it! Trust me when you find THE ONE (not our Prez!) youll know it as surely as the Boy King drew Excalibur from the stone! Youre looking for that ineffable feel in your hand. How does it balance? Does it point naturally? Lay your finger along side the frame and POINT. Do you get the feeling that the barrel is aligned with your finger so that if you pulled the trigger the bullet would go near the point of your finger?
So Ill tell you what to absolutely avoid and a reason for that. Side by side or over/under shotgun: TWO SHOTS and very slow to reload under pressure.
Any PUMP action shotgun. Under extreme pressure, too easy to SHORT STROKE the reload in order to fire the second round. This means that there is a failure to bring the pump forcefully to the bottom of its cycle and then start back up to chamber the round. This results in a double feed jam and can only be cleared by a detail strip of the weapon (usually a gunsmith job) difficult to stay alive under these circumstances.
Here is what I recommend to paying clients (no charge to freepers like you) in the way of defensive firearms. All the way from handgun to shotgun to assault rifle.
I recommend to my clients (I just finished a consulting job in south Miami Dade for a guy who specializes in kidnap insurance in Latin America) a good semi auto with extended tube. Either the Benelli M2 or M4 or a tactical version of the Remington 1100 12 ga:
Semi auto pistol is something that is reliable after firing an extended number of rounds without lubrication or cleaning and that lets out the majority of guns including the venerable 1911A1 Colt Government model. I can only suggest three brands: H&K, Glock and Sig Sauer. Caliber choice depends on your level of expertise, but I suggest either a 9mm or a 45acp. REMEMBER, bullet size does NOT "end the fight." Only shot placement does that! That's why both the British SAS and the FBI's famed Hostage Rescue Team used the Browning Hi-Power for a good many years. The SAS stuck with the 9mm and simply segued to the newer and proven Sig P226 while the FBI is still futzing around with calibers and makers. Not sure what they're currently using. Last I heard it was a Les Bauer custom 1911.
NOT the 40 because it offers a vicious barrel whip that will induce FLINCH and quikly start degrading accuracy. Thats what wins a gunfight, you know. ACCURACY under stress. Not caliber. 9mm is as small as I ever recommend and 45 is as big. I have used both. I do recommend that you use a DA first shot. Not a shot from the cocked and locked mode like you find on a 1911 Govt model. Its waaaay too easy to trip off the shot without being CERTAIN youre on target. You also have to remember to wipe off the safety and thats tough under life and death circumstances, especially as you age.
I carried a 1911 for 20 years both in the army and places I cant tell you about. But it was in a stupid IDPA ( I recommend you join: http://www.idpa.com) match several years ago that I lost precious time because my muscle memory failed me and I failed to wipe the safety off. If it had been real, Id have been dead. Now I know that MUSCLE MEMORY isn't unlimited. I went to a gun that didn't require that step for a very long time. However, recently the 1911 bug once again chomped on me and I decided it was simply time to REFRESH my "muscle memory." That just requires some practice. So, while I'm saving for the purchase of a new Sig Sauer C3, I'm doing exactly that. I'm practicing with IDPA and I'm carrying a 1911 once again to reinforce the need to keep a good mindset as a precursor to muscle memory. FOCUS is the key.
A revolver should be something you can hit with. Either from a range of 6 to 10 FEET from the hip (two handed grip, elbows locked into your sides) at rapid unaimed fire. OR at a greater range of 21 feet using the sights. 38sp or 357 magnum only unless you opt for the Taurus JUDGE with the 410 shotgun and 45 Colt caliber. I just bought one of those for trips out of town. Its a specialty gun for anti carjacking that I bought for my wife. Otherwise, I have everything I need. But certainly NOT everything I want!!! In a short barrel (3 or less) best to go with 38+P rather than 357 because the magnum will degrade in velocity so as to be less than optimal.
STAY AWAY from the AK47 family in 7.62x39 cal. Yeah, its an awesome assault rifle. Designed to be cleaned in a muddy creek, shook dry and resumed firing by some little illiterate commie drone. The problem is the ammo. There are damned few makers in this country. Most is WARSAW PACT surplus and can be choked off much more easily.
You want to stay with a caliber that your own military and police forces use. That means NATO compliant. 5.56x45 and 7.62 x51 IOW 223 and 308 Winchester. I own an M1 Garand because the hunting aspect of the caliber makes it easy to come by everywhere and there are some specialty angles that are available to that round that are still LEGAL and decidedly not so to the other calibers. Remember the 30-06 was a US military round since the early 1900s. So it is still legal and possible to get ammo that is AP, API and most desirable of all APIT: Armor Piercing, Armor Piercing Incindiary and Armor Piercing Incindiary Tracer. Great for work on engine blocks and gas tanks. Plus the Garand is a very good (not perfect) battle rifle and of course if you run out of ammo there is that bayonet and club aspects available. Its heavy but I dont expect to hump it in any more jungle jaunts.
Stay with the AR platform because of its ease of maintenance, accuracy and caliber symbiosis. lol. Remember something else, youve got to have the WILL to win no matter how bad it all looks. Youve got to have the soul and mindset of a sheepdog:
Saiga makes a "sport" version of the AK in .223. It's the best of both worlds.
hope yer server doesnt melt with the poopstorm thisll open...
I was referring to being in a situation where you need to use it outside a range...my view is that a larger caliber is better than smaller in that situation.
Like anything else, it's a compromise, like the old saying that the .380 you have is better than the .50 Desert Eagle or the 1911A1 in the trunk.
Where I live, if one ends up in the Dark Place, there had better be powder burns, and the magazine should be emptied, as is appropriate for a crime victim in Mortal Fear. Were I to put one shot in a perp's forehead, and have 6 or 7 rounds left, you just know the Liberal DA would call it a vigilante execution.
Were I to do this with a Hydrashock laden .45 the ME would be mad, and I'd probably have to pay to have the resulting mess shovelled up...hahahaa.
Yes, I agree a bigger caliber is better, of course. I doubt anyone would dispute that, if for no otherr reason than the BIG HOLE at the end of the barrel and its intimidation factor. Perhaps if I were larger framed I could carry the CCCMKIV for more hours without feeling I was trying to hide a 105 Howitzer. Cops look at me funny when I walk, and they are very clued-in about the "Shoulder Holster Shrug"..It makes for strained feelings all around.
I thoroughly enjoyed the post and it was a genuine contribution.
Gotta choose appropriately sized shot. That said, nobody wants a face-full of #8.
the only way to know...i tried a few cheap nylon varieties and couldnt get the angle of the 1911 to fit right...
the ugly ole Crossbreed super tuck is adjustable and i can manage to contour around my side with the grip...took a good 40 plus hrs of wear to really get the leather to conform to me...
all good info, thanks for posting...
Of course there is a small caliber that I really like...North American Arms that holds 2 22mag rounds. I keep it next to my wallet...pull out my wallet and let em have it :)
Heh. Check this out:
"Used for self defence in a revolver, the .22 WMR has compiled a 42% one shot stop rate according to Marshall and Sanow. This is far superior to the .22 LR and .25 ACP, and makes the .22 WMR the best of the small bore handgun cartridges." Something like Mach 1.5 out of a 6-1/2" barrel.
Oh good. A shopping excuse. Now I want one.
>I usually shoot once a week. I wonder if I could stretch the cleaning to every other week.<
Use Militec-1 for lube and cleaning.
>Ive seriously thought about a .38 special snub nose or something long those lines for carry.<
You will absolutely love it. 22mag is a completely different world than 22lr...twice the velocity and when using smaller caliber speed is force.
You will find yourself packing it in your front pocket with your change and will get a billboard that fits nicely in your front pocket right next to it.
Never had a Ruger before ... real quality.
the P229 in .40 is not much larger
Well, actually it is quite a bit larger...I have a P229; with two barrels, .40S&W and the 357Sig.
I like the P238 but the drawback is I will have to deal with another caliber, and I’m down to about an even dozen right now.
on a smaller pistol, it might work for ya...they do a 2 week money back trial period too...just fyi...
I am fairly new to carrying but not new to shooting.
I carry mostly Glocks, anywhere from a Glock 26 9mm, Glock 17 9mm or a Glock 22 .40 cal.
All pretty blocky big guns.. but hey, I like Glocks and I shoot them well.. might as well stick with a gun that I shoot well if things turn ugly and I need it.
Anyway.. I discovered by running a gun message board, a new holster that I have to say REALLY is comfortable and hides the gun well.
Its a crossbreed. Costs about 70 bucks but man its worth it.. I love mine. Check out cross breed holsters, I can carry a full size gun and you cant even tell. and no I am not affiliated with the company.. but I sure do love their holsters.
Get the gun that you will carry regularly everyday in any season. Someone else said it first, “the 380 you carry is better than the 1911 you left at home.”
I found it all to easy to slip my 380 LCP in my pocket, and it is thin enough to conceal nicely. Holland Holster makes a holster that is about the same size and shape as an ordinary wallet. In my state, if someone notices you’re carrying, you could lose your CC license. I wont ever have that problem with a small gun.
Yes the circle is leather and yes it does take some space inside the waist band as all inside the waist do. The large leather surface distributes the area the gun presses on making it almost disappear comfort wise. I have worn the simpler IWB holsters and the gun ends up being uncomfortable. With the Kholster all you feel is the weight, not a gun digging into your side.
I keep mine just behind center on my right side and sometimes further back
If you search Kholster on youtube you will find a number of videos.
Another brand that is similar design is crossbreedholsters.com. I do not own one, but it looks to be about the same. I was so happy with my kholster that I didn’t need to try anymore.
Remember that owning a gun is no good if you don’t have it when you need it. An you are more likely to have it, if you are comfortable carrying it.
Thanks for the tip!
The wife and I are going for our CCW training tomorrow!
I’ll take a look at those.
My 1911 is a Taurus, and I’ve been very happy with it for the price (~$600).
But isn’t the 22 magnum still a rim fire?
My wife shoots tons of .22lr at the range, and it’s not that awfully rare to get a dud.
22mag is twice the velocity of 22lr...huge difference. 22mag is reaching 2/3rds the speed of 223.
Well, with 185 grain hollow point, you’re not going to have as much recoil. Therefore you will be able to get your pistol on the target quicker after firing a round. I shoot bullseye matches with 185 grain wad cutters (similar) and at 25 meters with the rapid fire (5 shots in 10 seconds) I’m able to get very good groups. That’s firing NRA approved one handed of course.
Hollow points make good stopping power. I think you’ll be good shooting those out of a 1911...
Do you wear an IWB with a 3 inch barrell? No printing or showing through at all?
This thing is fairly heavy, but not awkward. Sorta like myself. 3 in the IWB is not bad at all. BTW, wouldn't this make a great Derringer round?
btw Gorzaloon I just re-read what I had written.
The North American has a 5 round capacity...I have 2 cylinders one for mag and one for lr.
Sorry for the confusion.
You will love the little beast.
Sorry for the confusion.
You will love the little beast.
I have a deal to try my BIL's. I get him into the range Free, I get to shoot it. Last time he had it I did not try it, but was impressed by the sonic report. It was nothing like a .22LR. At All.
A .22 with a bad attitude.
My wife shoots tons of .22lr at the range, and its not that awfully rare to get a dud.
Yes, the whole reason for the anemic, limp, feeble, effeminate .25ACP was for a small reliable centerfire cartridge. but there are brands and brands of .22, from the lowly plinking brick to CCI Stingers. The "Shoot at cans all afternoon" stuff does have a dud once in a while, especially in my old High Standard Citation, which could probably use a new firing pin, but I have never had a dud with the CCI or the Remington (Copperhead?) rounds.
Id use slugs myself.
Haha.."Neatness Counts", huh?
Guy I worked with in the early 70s had a creeper come into his house twice. Once in he would open windows and doors for his escape. He seemed to like his girls' room. When someone would wake up and yell, the creeper would run out. The guy took to waiting for him in the family room with his 12 gauge loaded with "bird shot". I asked him later why he used that and he said he didn't want to kill anybody.
One night the guy came back and the homeowner hit him in the side of the face at 3 or 4 feet. The creeper had the effrontery to run out the front door leaving a lot of one side of his face on the family room wall. He died later in the neighbors front yard. The DA made the guy sit on his thumb for months before he officially called it justified. The homeowner was still a mess when I talked to him a couple of months after the shooting. (This happened in Pennsylvania)
But nowhere near the mass.
Of course but a North American Arms you can fit in your front pocket like a set of keys...believe me if they made a 45 like that I would have that instead...lol.
Otherwise my first choice is always a 45 or the Judge.
You want a fun pistol....that's cheap and even cheaper to shoot?
I have one...and have turned some local friends onto them also. They love um.....
Don't hide your knowledge..
Thanks for your service!
Yep. Birdshot up close pretty much makes a 2 inch hole all the way through. If you “don’t want to kill anybody,” use a squirt gun. That said, I hope the guy got over it. Sounds like the creeper was a kidnapping, or worse, waiting to happen, and the world is a better place for him not being in it.
Kimber Ultra Carry. A small 1911. Works great.
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