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Thoughts on a good carry gun (caliber, make) and holster type.
Vanity | 8/13/10 | Me

Posted on 08/13/2010 9:46:25 AM PDT by Pessimist

Hey All!

Seems like a bit of a slow news day, so I thought I'd crank out my first vanity.

I've been shooting for a couple of years now (since around October of '08 - go figure) and I'm looking at getting my CCW. I'd like some opinions of caliber / make and also holster options and ramifications.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Hobbies
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw; guns
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Just the man I was looking for. My pal RaceBannon, one of your Ilk, just purchased a Ruger .45 auto, nice gun. We were talking about bullet weights and velocities.

I am a wheel gun fan, .357, but he has a .45. We ran across a deal on 185 Gr hollow points in .45, to me a deal. The problem I have, I qualified on the 45 in the Army, is how it effects how the gun is shot in a situation where you have to have to fire more than one round.

101 posted on 08/13/2010 12:37:23 PM PDT by Little Bill (`-)
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To: Retired Greyhound

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAPD412JG000&src=sim


102 posted on 08/13/2010 12:37:34 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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To: Pessimist
I carry a Sig P220 (.45) in a Milt Sparks holster, I would also recommend the P239 in either .40 or .357 Sig as it is not full sized and may be more concealable in summer.

By the way Milt Sparks has a six month lead time so order early!

103 posted on 08/13/2010 1:03:50 PM PDT by 67 LandRover
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To: Pessimist
Kangaroo holster with KelTec /380 in summer time, no jacket.
Belly band with Kimber .45 in winter.
104 posted on 08/13/2010 1:54:50 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ((B.?) Hussein (Obama?Soetoro?Dunham?) Change America Will Die From.)
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To: Pessimist
You must like to read. A LOT.

Speaking as an NRA Instructor with 21+ years of experience; as a former Law Enforcement Officer and as a former US Army Infantry Captain, I’ll give you some feedback and you can take it or leave it.

First off, I won’t even join a thread like this. You are going to get a ton of uninformed abeit will meaning replies.

Choosing a firearm is a lot like choosing a mate. Ya sorta gotta TOUCH them before you make a decision! So whatever advice you get, go to a gun show and FIND that exact model firearm and handle it! Trust me when you find THE ONE (not our Prez!) you’ll know it as surely as the Boy King drew Excalibur from the stone! You’re looking for that ineffable “feel” in your hand. How does it balance? Does it “point” naturally? Lay your finger along side the frame and POINT. Do you get the feeling that the barrel is aligned with your finger so that if you pulled the trigger the bullet would go near the point of your finger?

So I’ll tell you what to absolutely avoid and a reason for that. Side by side or over/under shotgun: TWO SHOTS and very slow to reload under pressure.

Any PUMP action shotgun. Under extreme pressure, too easy to “SHORT STROKE” the reload in order to fire the second round. This means that there is a failure to bring the pump forcefully to the bottom of it’s cycle and then start back up to chamber the round. This results in a double feed jam and can only be cleared by a detail strip of the weapon (usually a gunsmith job) difficult to stay alive under these circumstances.

Here is what I recommend to paying clients (no charge to freepers like you) in the way of defensive firearms. All the way from handgun to shotgun to assault rifle.

I recommend to my clients (I just finished a “consulting” job in south Miami Dade for a guy who specializes in kidnap insurance in Latin America) a good semi auto with extended tube. Either the Benelli M2 or M4 or a tactical version of the Remington 1100 12 ga:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_1100/model_1100_tactical.asp

Semi auto pistol is something that is reliable after firing an extended number of rounds without lubrication or cleaning and that lets out the majority of guns — including the venerable 1911A1 Colt Government model. I can only suggest three brands: H&K, Glock and Sig Sauer. Caliber choice depends on your level of expertise, but I suggest either a 9mm or a 45acp. REMEMBER, bullet size does NOT "end the fight." Only shot placement does that! That's why both the British SAS and the FBI's famed Hostage Rescue Team used the Browning Hi-Power for a good many years. The SAS stuck with the 9mm and simply segued to the newer and proven Sig P226 while the FBI is still futzing around with calibers and makers. Not sure what they're currently using. Last I heard it was a Les Bauer custom 1911.

NOT the 40 because it offers a vicious barrel whip that will induce FLINCH and quikly start degrading accuracy. That’s what wins a gunfight, you know. ACCURACY under stress. Not caliber. 9mm is as small as I ever recommend and 45 is as big. I have used both. I do recommend that you use a DA first shot. Not a shot from the cocked and locked mode like you find on a 1911 Gov’t model. It’s waaaay too easy to trip off the shot without being CERTAIN you’re on target. You also have to remember to wipe off the safety and that’s tough under life and death circumstances, especially as you age.

I carried a 1911 for 20 years both in the army and places I can’t tell you about. But it was in a stupid IDPA ( I recommend you join: http://www.idpa.com) match several years ago that I lost precious time because my muscle memory failed me and I failed to wipe the safety off. If it had been real, I’d have been dead. Now I know that MUSCLE MEMORY isn't unlimited. I went to a gun that didn't require that step for a very long time. However, recently the 1911 bug once again chomped on me and I decided it was simply time to REFRESH my "muscle memory." That just requires some practice. So, while I'm saving for the purchase of a new Sig Sauer C3, I'm doing exactly that. I'm practicing with IDPA and I'm carrying a 1911 once again to reinforce the need to keep a good mindset as a precursor to muscle memory. FOCUS is the key.

A revolver should be something you can hit with. Either from a range of 6 to 10 FEET from the hip (two handed grip, elbows locked into your sides) at rapid unaimed fire. OR at a greater range of 21 feet using the sights. 38sp or 357 magnum only unless you opt for the Taurus “JUDGE” with the 410 shotgun and 45 Colt caliber. I just bought one of those for trips out of town. It’s a specialty gun for anti carjacking that I bought for my wife. Otherwise, I have everything I need. But certainly NOT everything I want!!! In a short barrel (3” or less) best to go with 38+P rather than 357 because the magnum will degrade in velocity so as to be less than optimal.

Assault Rifles:

STAY AWAY from the AK47 family in 7.62x39 cal. Yeah, it’s an awesome assault rifle. Designed to be cleaned in a muddy creek, shook dry and resumed firing by some little illiterate commie drone. The problem is the ammo. There are damned few makers in this country. Most is WARSAW PACT surplus and can be choked off much more easily.

You want to stay with a caliber that your own military and police forces use. That means NATO compliant. 5.56x45 and 7.62 x51 IOW 223 and 308 Winchester. I own an M1 Garand because the hunting aspect of the caliber makes it easy to come by everywhere and there are some specialty angles that are available to that round that are still LEGAL and decidedly not so to the other calibers. Remember the 30-06 was a US military round since the early 1900s. So it is still legal and possible to get ammo that is AP, API and most desirable of all APIT: Armor Piercing, Armor Piercing Incindiary and Armor Piercing Incindiary Tracer. Great for work on engine blocks and gas tanks. Plus the Garand is a very good (not perfect) battle rifle and of course if you run out of ammo there is that bayonet and club aspects available. It’s heavy but I don’t expect to hump it in any more jungle jaunts.

Stay with the AR platform because of it’s ease of maintenance, accuracy and caliber symbiosis. lol. Remember something else, you’ve got to have the WILL to win no matter how bad it all looks. You’ve got to have the soul and mindset of a sheepdog:

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

105 posted on 08/13/2010 1:58:37 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: All
I'm sorry, I meant this to be a PRIVATE reply, please don't get offended those of you who did post publicly. It was not meant to be posted here.
106 posted on 08/13/2010 2:00:15 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier
STAY AWAY from the AK47 family in 7.62x39 cal. Yeah, it’s an awesome assault rifle. Designed to be cleaned in a muddy creek, shook dry and resumed firing by some little illiterate commie drone. The problem is the ammo. There are damned few makers in this country. Most is WARSAW PACT surplus and can be choked off much more easily.

_____________________________

Saiga makes a "sport" version of the AK in .223. It's the best of both worlds.

107 posted on 08/13/2010 2:04:04 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: wtc911
My advice stands on a platform for the .223. The ONLY reason I'd go with the AK is for the 7.62x39 ammo and that famed Ak reliability. But again, the ammo is too easily choked off.
108 posted on 08/13/2010 2:23:21 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Pessimist

hope yer server doesnt melt with the poopstorm thisll open...


109 posted on 08/13/2010 2:28:10 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: surfer
I have low caliber weapons for the range that I love to shoot a lot and it definitely is cheaper.

I was referring to being in a situation where you need to use it outside a range...my view is that a larger caliber is better than smaller in that situation.

Like anything else, it's a compromise, like the old saying that the .380 you have is better than the .50 Desert Eagle or the 1911A1 in the trunk.

Where I live, if one ends up in the Dark Place, there had better be powder burns, and the magazine should be emptied, as is appropriate for a crime victim in Mortal Fear. Were I to put one shot in a perp's forehead, and have 6 or 7 rounds left, you just know the Liberal DA would call it a vigilante execution.

Were I to do this with a Hydrashock laden .45 the ME would be mad, and I'd probably have to pay to have the resulting mess shovelled up...hahahaa.

Yes, I agree a bigger caliber is better, of course. I doubt anyone would dispute that, if for no otherr reason than the BIG HOLE at the end of the barrel and its intimidation factor. Perhaps if I were larger framed I could carry the CCCMKIV for more hours without feeling I was trying to hide a 105 Howitzer. Cops look at me funny when I walk, and they are very clued-in about the "Shoulder Holster Shrug"..It makes for strained feelings all around.

110 posted on 08/13/2010 2:37:50 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: ExSoldier
I'm sorry, I meant this to be a PRIVATE reply, please don't get offended those of you who did post publicly. It was not meant to be posted here.

I thoroughly enjoyed the post and it was a genuine contribution.

111 posted on 08/13/2010 2:44:42 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: wtc911
My advice stands on a platform for the .223. The ONLY reason I'd go with the AK is for the 7.62x39 ammo and that famed Ak reliability. But again, the ammo is too easily choked off.
112 posted on 08/13/2010 2:55:22 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Tucson Jim
Looks like little pin pricks.

Gotta choose appropriately sized shot. That said, nobody wants a face-full of #8.

113 posted on 08/13/2010 2:58:43 PM PDT by gundog (Why is it that useful idiots remain idiots long after they've exhausted their usefulness?)
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To: Pessimist; Niteranger68
try one on

the only way to know...i tried a few cheap nylon varieties and couldnt get the angle of the 1911 to fit right...

the ugly ole Crossbreed super tuck is adjustable and i can manage to contour around my side with the grip...took a good 40 plus hrs of wear to really get the leather to conform to me...

114 posted on 08/13/2010 2:59:02 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: ExSoldier
so much for muscle memory eh ??? 8^}...

all good info, thanks for posting...

115 posted on 08/13/2010 3:26:04 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; Pessimist
My main rub with IWB is the traditional 4:00 - 5:00 position for RH presentation. I prefer to carry in the 9:00 - 3:00 range to maximize my retention odds (based on my personal skill...not true for everybody). I specifically like to carry 2:30 with a Fobus paddle holster. They seem to keep the weapon fairly snug to the body (not the Roto version...they stick out about 1/2” more). I can also press the inside of my right forearm against the gun if I'm having to move through a crowded area.
116 posted on 08/13/2010 3:58:36 PM PDT by Niteranger68 (I believe in man-made political climate change.)
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To: IOWAfan
I own a Bersa Thunder in 380 and at 15 ft with 102 grain hollow points,it will go through a 50 gallon barrel.In one side and out the other.The exit holes are impressive.
Very accurate out of the box and only jammed once during break in.It takes a few rounds to break it in though as it is pretty tight.Sadly,the ammo has been hard to get where I am though,but it is improving.35 dollars for a box of 50.
I was impressed with the gun though and not disappointed at all.
117 posted on 08/13/2010 4:15:55 PM PDT by xarmydog
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To: Gilbo_3
Like any muscle, it weakens with disuse. Mine did. I was urged to go home to the 1911 platform by my friends in Special Forces. That I merely had to reinvigorate that muscle memory and I have to agree with that observation. I'd just let it slip...
118 posted on 08/13/2010 4:18:40 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Gorzaloon

Of course there is a small caliber that I really like...North American Arms that holds 2 22mag rounds. I keep it next to my wallet...pull out my wallet and let em have it :)


119 posted on 08/13/2010 4:56:53 PM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: surfer
North American Arms that holds 2 22mag rounds.

Heh. Check this out:

"Used for self defence in a revolver, the .22 WMR has compiled a 42% one shot stop rate according to Marshall and Sanow. This is far superior to the .22 LR and .25 ACP, and makes the .22 WMR the best of the small bore handgun cartridges." Something like Mach 1.5 out of a 6-1/2" barrel.

Oh good. A shopping excuse. Now I want one.

120 posted on 08/13/2010 5:29:34 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: Pessimist

>I usually shoot once a week. I wonder if I could stretch the cleaning to every other week.<

Use Militec-1 for lube and cleaning.

www.Militec-1.com


121 posted on 08/13/2010 5:44:08 PM PDT by B4Ranch (America was founded by MARKSMEN, not Marxists.)
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To: Pessimist

>I’ve seriously thought about a .38 special snub nose or something long those lines for carry.<

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/38-snub_vs_357-snub.htm


122 posted on 08/13/2010 5:46:24 PM PDT by B4Ranch (America was founded by MARKSMEN, not Marxists.)
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To: Gorzaloon

You will absolutely love it. 22mag is a completely different world than 22lr...twice the velocity and when using smaller caliber speed is force.

You will find yourself packing it in your front pocket with your change and will get a billboard that fits nicely in your front pocket right next to it.


123 posted on 08/13/2010 7:16:53 PM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Got it in 3" The rubber grips feel good, but are sticky in the pocket if you don't use a holster! Give me a few more months, and I'll be Annie Oakley with this puppy at 25 feet!

Never had a Ruger before ... real quality.

124 posted on 08/13/2010 8:35:58 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The Republican Party was founded to Save the Union. Can it now Save the Republic?)
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To: Cuttnhorse

the P229 in .40 is not much larger


125 posted on 08/13/2010 9:24:01 PM PDT by FlyingEagle
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To: FlyingEagle

Well, actually it is quite a bit larger...I have a P229; with two barrels, .40S&W and the 357Sig.

I like the P238 but the drawback is I will have to deal with another caliber, and I’m down to about an even dozen right now.


126 posted on 08/13/2010 9:34:10 PM PDT by Cuttnhorse ("It is terrible to contemplete how few politicians are hanged." - G.K. Chesterton, 1921)
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To: Niteranger68
9-3 would be tough with my thin frame, and seating would seem to be a problem unless i had it nearly horizontal...that supertuck did allow a pretty fair tilt of the pistol though, i can get the grip to near 3 oclock, but it starts printin due to my frame as much as the guns...

on a smaller pistol, it might work for ya...they do a 2 week money back trial period too...just fyi...

127 posted on 08/13/2010 10:01:13 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Pessimist

I am fairly new to carrying but not new to shooting.

I carry mostly Glocks, anywhere from a Glock 26 9mm, Glock 17 9mm or a Glock 22 .40 cal.

All pretty blocky big guns.. but hey, I like Glocks and I shoot them well.. might as well stick with a gun that I shoot well if things turn ugly and I need it.

Anyway.. I discovered by running a gun message board, a new holster that I have to say REALLY is comfortable and hides the gun well.

Its a crossbreed. Costs about 70 bucks but man its worth it.. I love mine. Check out cross breed holsters, I can carry a full size gun and you cant even tell. and no I am not affiliated with the company.. but I sure do love their holsters.

http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/


128 posted on 08/13/2010 10:09:45 PM PDT by eXe (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: Pessimist

Get the gun that you will carry regularly everyday in any season. Someone else said it first, “the 380 you carry is better than the 1911 you left at home.”

I found it all to easy to slip my 380 LCP in my pocket, and it is thin enough to conceal nicely. Holland Holster makes a holster that is about the same size and shape as an ordinary wallet. In my state, if someone notices you’re carrying, you could lose your CC license. I wont ever have that problem with a small gun.


129 posted on 08/13/2010 11:42:29 PM PDT by PBinTX
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To: Pessimist

Yes the circle is leather and yes it does take some space inside the waist band as all inside the waist do. The large leather surface distributes the area the gun presses on making it almost disappear comfort wise. I have worn the simpler IWB holsters and the gun ends up being uncomfortable. With the Kholster all you feel is the weight, not a gun digging into your side.

I keep mine just behind center on my right side and sometimes further back

If you search Kholster on youtube you will find a number of videos.

Another brand that is similar design is crossbreedholsters.com. I do not own one, but it looks to be about the same. I was so happy with my kholster that I didn’t need to try anymore.

Take care.

Remember that owning a gun is no good if you don’t have it when you need it. An you are more likely to have it, if you are comfortable carrying it.


130 posted on 08/14/2010 9:27:48 AM PDT by born2bfree
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To: born2bfree

Thanks for the tip!

The wife and I are going for our CCW training tomorrow!


131 posted on 08/14/2010 2:08:28 PM PDT by Pessimist
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To: OldMissileer

I’ll take a look at those.

My 1911 is a Taurus, and I’ve been very happy with it for the price (~$600).


132 posted on 08/14/2010 2:12:06 PM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Gorzaloon; surfer

But isn’t the 22 magnum still a rim fire?

My wife shoots tons of .22lr at the range, and it’s not that awfully rare to get a dud.


133 posted on 08/14/2010 2:31:56 PM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Pessimist

22mag is twice the velocity of 22lr...huge difference. 22mag is reaching 2/3rds the speed of 223.


134 posted on 08/14/2010 3:15:44 PM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Little Bill

Well, with 185 grain hollow point, you’re not going to have as much recoil. Therefore you will be able to get your pistol on the target quicker after firing a round. I shoot bullseye matches with 185 grain wad cutters (similar) and at 25 meters with the rapid fire (5 shots in 10 seconds) I’m able to get very good groups. That’s firing NRA approved one handed of course.

Hollow points make good stopping power. I think you’ll be good shooting those out of a 1911...


135 posted on 08/14/2010 9:50:26 PM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Kenny Bunk

Do you wear an IWB with a 3 inch barrell? No printing or showing through at all?


136 posted on 08/14/2010 9:53:03 PM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Ever since the 'Rockford Files,' I usually wear a jacket when leaving the house .... OK, a Hawaiian shirt when in FL!

This thing is fairly heavy, but not awkward. Sorta like myself. 3 in the IWB is not bad at all. BTW, wouldn't this make a great Derringer round?

137 posted on 08/15/2010 4:25:45 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The Republican Party was founded to Save the Union. Can it now Save the Republic?)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden; RaceBannon
Thanks for the info, not for me but for Race. I was buying a bunch of bullets for my .357 and I saw a deal that Race might be interested in for his Ruger 45. The question came up about about the difference between the 780 military loads and the 1085 factory loads, I didn't know so I asked the experts.
138 posted on 08/15/2010 11:07:23 AM PDT by Little Bill (`-)
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To: Gorzaloon

btw Gorzaloon I just re-read what I had written.

The North American has a 5 round capacity...I have 2 cylinders one for mag and one for lr.

Sorry for the confusion.

You will love the little beast.


139 posted on 08/15/2010 1:59:17 PM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: surfer
The North American has a 5 round capacity...I have 2 cylinders one for mag and one for lr.

Sorry for the confusion.

You will love the little beast.

I have a deal to try my BIL's. I get him into the range Free, I get to shoot it. Last time he had it I did not try it, but was impressed by the sonic report. It was nothing like a .22LR. At All.

A .22 with a bad attitude.

140 posted on 08/15/2010 2:43:38 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: Pessimist
But isn’t the 22 magnum still a rim fire?

My wife shoots tons of .22lr at the range, and it’s not that awfully rare to get a dud.

Yes, the whole reason for the anemic, limp, feeble, effeminate .25ACP was for a small reliable centerfire cartridge. but there are brands and brands of .22, from the lowly plinking brick to CCI Stingers. The "Shoot at cans all afternoon" stuff does have a dud once in a while, especially in my old High Standard Citation, which could probably use a new firing pin, but I have never had a dud with the CCI or the Remington (Copperhead?) rounds.

141 posted on 08/15/2010 2:50:38 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: stockpirate
It has a round with 5 lead balls, at 10 feet the person is DOA.

I’d use slugs myself.

Haha.."Neatness Counts", huh?

142 posted on 08/15/2010 3:00:31 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: gundog
That said, nobody wants a face-full of #8.

Guy I worked with in the early 70s had a creeper come into his house twice. Once in he would open windows and doors for his escape. He seemed to like his girls' room. When someone would wake up and yell, the creeper would run out. The guy took to waiting for him in the family room with his 12 gauge loaded with "bird shot". I asked him later why he used that and he said he didn't want to kill anybody.

One night the guy came back and the homeowner hit him in the side of the face at 3 or 4 feet. The creeper had the effrontery to run out the front door leaving a lot of one side of his face on the family room wall. He died later in the neighbors front yard. The DA made the guy sit on his thumb for months before he officially called it justified. The homeowner was still a mess when I talked to him a couple of months after the shooting. (This happened in Pennsylvania)

143 posted on 08/15/2010 4:16:53 PM PDT by Stentor
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To: surfer

But nowhere near the mass.


144 posted on 08/16/2010 7:48:30 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: surfer

Of course but a North American Arms you can fit in your front pocket like a set of keys...believe me if they made a 45 like that I would have that instead...lol.

Otherwise my first choice is always a 45 or the Judge.


145 posted on 08/16/2010 8:50:40 AM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Pessimist
Speaking of heavy metal.

You want a fun pistol....that's cheap and even cheaper to shoot?

CZ-52....

I have one...and have turned some local friends onto them also. They love um.....

146 posted on 08/16/2010 9:26:48 AM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: ExSoldier
Heck, it was a good post.

Don't hide your knowledge..

Thanks for your service!

147 posted on 08/16/2010 9:32:27 AM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Pessimist
Holsters: Hands down the best (and most comfortable in all climates) IWB holster on the market: CROSSBREED
148 posted on 08/16/2010 9:38:03 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Stentor

Yep. Birdshot up close pretty much makes a 2 inch hole all the way through. If you “don’t want to kill anybody,” use a squirt gun. That said, I hope the guy got over it. Sounds like the creeper was a kidnapping, or worse, waiting to happen, and the world is a better place for him not being in it.


149 posted on 08/16/2010 1:44:38 PM PDT by gundog (Why is it that useful idiots remain idiots long after they've exhausted their usefulness?)
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To: Pessimist

Kimber Ultra Carry. A small 1911. Works great.


150 posted on 08/16/2010 1:51:36 PM PDT by CodeToad ("Idiocracy" is not just a movie.)
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