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Thoughts on a good carry gun (caliber, make) and holster type.
Vanity | 8/13/10 | Me

Posted on 08/13/2010 9:46:25 AM PDT by Pessimist

Hey All!

Seems like a bit of a slow news day, so I thought I'd crank out my first vanity.

I've been shooting for a couple of years now (since around October of '08 - go figure) and I'm looking at getting my CCW. I'd like some opinions of caliber / make and also holster options and ramifications.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Hobbies
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw; guns
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To: Gaffer
pristine S&W Victory Model 38 with original holster.

I have one of those myself, got it from my grandfather, but it sure as heck isn't a carry weapon, IMO.

Great shooting gun, though.

51 posted on 08/13/2010 10:19:32 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Tucson Jim

Also, if you go to the website you will see it has several barrles that are interchangable, .45, .38.


52 posted on 08/13/2010 10:20:55 AM PDT by stockpirate ("......When the government fears the people you have liberty." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Blueflag
The .380 requires you hit them with the weapon after you expend all your rounds. ;-p

ER stats have contradicted this. Yes, my favorite Carry piece is a Colt CC MKIV in stainless. But in Summer, it's the Sig 232 w/ Hydrashocks. I just cannot hide the Colt well, and it gets tiring after the major part of a day.

The jokes about "File the site off so after you shoot the perp, and he gets mad and stuffs the gun up you, it won't hurt as much" are really for the .25 and .32.

53 posted on 08/13/2010 10:21:50 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: Pessimist

The BEST carry gun and holster is the one that you can:

1) get to quickly
2) hit a 2” target consistently at 10 feet (if you cant, you need either a smaller gun or more practice)
3) and perform #1 and #2 under high stress

A .22 revolver that is fired accurately at a vital spot is a whole lot more devastating to an opponent than a .50AE or .45ACP fired in the wrong place, or misses entirely.

Other additional considerations:
weight
comfort
conceal-ability
reliability
cost


54 posted on 08/13/2010 10:22:21 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Pessimist

How do you plan to carry? All the time, for work, weekends, restaurants? It’ll make a difference on what and how you carry. I used a .38 S&W snubbie with a modified hammer and a paddle styled holster. I actually liked carrying the Beretta 92 and the compact EAA .40 better but the snubbie left less of a bump for concealment purposes.

Think about why/what purpose you want to carry and go from there. It might make sense to get a smaller gun. Then find a comfortable holster (you very well could go through a few before you find one that works.)that fits your body and allows you to draw safely. I always loaded self defense ammo and my buddy used the frangible stuff for his .40

Suggest to look at the entire decision pragmatically and not get too hung up on caliber and looks but focus in your own comfort and security and confidence. A .45 is a great caliber but it does you no good if you miss and hit a kid in the next room. Dead from a .38 or 9MM to the sweet-spot is the same dead as from a .45 or larger. I’m no expert but my dad was (Army MP and NYPD weapons instructor)and that was the advice he gave me.

Good luck..


55 posted on 08/13/2010 10:23:24 AM PDT by newnhdad (The longest of journeys begins with one step.)
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To: Pessimist

once you start carrying one all day, everyday, you may start to appreciate the lighter weight.

as for holsters, i like desantis.


56 posted on 08/13/2010 10:24:04 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (2x divorced, tattooed, pierced, harley hatin, meghan mccain luvin', smoker and pit bull owner..what?)
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To: RobRoy

A 1911 is a model of .45 semi auto pistol. The Army commisoned them in 1911, I belive, hence the name.

Several manufacturers make them. They are tried and true to this day.

Try one!

(Admittedly, it’s kind of a cult thing too!)


57 posted on 08/13/2010 10:24:15 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Pessimist

I carry an S&W model 36, which is a 5 shot with a 1 3/4” inch barrel. If I use a holster, it’s an inside the waistband, but the gun fits nicely in a pocket where I can put my hand on it without drawing any attention. The FBI says most gunfights involve fewer than 3 shots at less than 7 meters.


58 posted on 08/13/2010 10:27:10 AM PDT by Spok (Free Range Republican)
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To: RobRoy
I was just checking this out at a local gunshop - SigSauer P238 in .380 cal.

I plan on an inside the belt back holster for summer wear. For winter I have a tactical jacket with a velcro inside pocket that easily handles my 1911, two mags, a novel, and a turkey sandwich...or two.

59 posted on 08/13/2010 10:28:30 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse ("It is terrible to contemplete how few politicians are hanged." - G.K. Chesterton, 1921)
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To: Pessimist

pistol
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

holster
http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2010/05/torture-testing-blackhawk-serpa-holster.html

Glock 30 45acp and sherpa holster for me


60 posted on 08/13/2010 10:29:08 AM PDT by ezoeni
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To: Gorzaloon

But ... ER stats notwithstanding, that perp in NY got hit 22 TIMES and lived ... to sue the NYPD most likely. Those were not .45 ACP self-defense rounds being removed from his body.

Betcha those were 38s and 9s.

Just my 2 cents.

My P220 rides OTW on a Blackhawk Serpa during suitable jacket and overshirt weather. I find the weight in the Serpa to be ‘un-noticed’ after a bit.

I keep my gun ITW behind the back during the summer. Either way it requires a shift in/out of the vehicle.


61 posted on 08/13/2010 10:30:10 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
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To: newnhdad

“How do you plan to carry?”

Good question. I should have mentioned, I actually intend to carry pretty rarely. Mianly I’m excercising my right, etc.

The problem is there are so few places I got that you ~can~ carry.

Work? Nope. Bar / Restaurant? Nope? Store? Usually nope.

And I live and work in very safe neighborhoods.

To be honest, I’ll probably carry a few times a year. We go to tea parties here in Cleveland Oh (not all that hospitable to conservatives), so I’ll probably carry there, just in case...


62 posted on 08/13/2010 10:30:21 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Blueflag
But ... ER stats notwithstanding, that perp in NY got hit 22 TIMES and lived ... to sue the NYPD most likely. Those were not .45 ACP self-defense rounds being removed from his body. Betcha those were 38s and 9s.

And I bet they were FMJ's that drill a neat clean hole.

63 posted on 08/13/2010 10:32:17 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: RobRoy

This is a 1911. It shoots .45ACP. The greatest handgun of all time.

Although it is large, it actually has a narrow grip because it only holds 7 rounds. The narrow grip makes it a very comfortable gun for most women.

They are available in compact versions better suited for concealed carry.

64 posted on 08/13/2010 10:32:49 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: Pessimist

It all depends upon your needs. I prefer the 1911 & carry it in a shoulder holster, belt, inside my waistband under my shirt (cross draw), & occasionally in a pocket. For church & a couple other times I carry a 5-shot .38 in an ankle holster. I don’t like moving my guns around so much, but clothing changes, DEFCON & “mission” necessitate it.

Don’t discount a .22 mag. The gun can be VERY small & light & still pack an unexpected wallop.


65 posted on 08/13/2010 10:32:53 AM PDT by Strider2
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To: Kenny Bunk
"I recently got a Ruger 3101 in 327 Mag. and lemme tell you, this thing is definitely worth considering."

Do you get it in the 2 1/4 inch barrel length? I only practice with my .357 at about a 21 feet distance since all the stats bear it out that most confrontations will be at that distance or closer. I'm pretty accurate with it in single and double action. I will have to check out the .327 though. I truly enjoy Rugers. For the money vs. quality there's not much better. Yes I have Kimbers and S&W's but I still like Rugers the best for price vs quality.
66 posted on 08/13/2010 10:34:05 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: surfer

I clean after each use, as well.

Just my little experiment.


67 posted on 08/13/2010 10:34:36 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: taxcontrol

Not sure ya need TWO INCH accuracy as a spec, particularly in a high-stress, perp-in-motion, self-defense shooting scenario.

If I am hitting roughly center mass, particularly upper torso, with 6 - 12” (picnic plate outlines on the Barney Fife target) 3-round quick-fire groups, at 12 - 15 feet, I am happy with that, and pretty certain the .45 rounds WILL stop the threat.


68 posted on 08/13/2010 10:35:26 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
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To: surfer

I too love them.

Ran into a guy at the range that plumb crazy. For Kimber’s that is.

He had the bottom of the well enlarged so magazines slip in easier and his reloading is faster.

I haven’t go around to doing that.


69 posted on 08/13/2010 10:37:33 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Pessimist

The colt .380 Mark IV is a VERY good CC weapon. It fits in a back pocket, ankle holster or under the arm very very well. Some good Yellow Jacket, hollow points with steel core and 3/4 jackets will have serious knock down when needed. It’s my alternative to my 1911 big’un.


70 posted on 08/13/2010 10:37:55 AM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Unless the GOP Senate ruins it all...)
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To: Pessimist
FWIW....there are several affordable and available .380 carry size guns out there. Not so true with the ammo.

The current rotation of my carry guns are:

Springfield XD-9 Sub-compact carried OWB in a Fobus paddle holster with a shirt cover (cold season)

S&W 642 .38 carried OWB in a Fobus paddle holster -or- pocket carry in a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster (warm season and BUG)

Kel-Tec PF-9 carried in a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster (warm season and BUG)

Can't do IWB.....just not comfortable for me.

71 posted on 08/13/2010 10:38:43 AM PDT by Niteranger68 (I believe in man-made political climate change.)
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To: Vendome

I hadn’t heard about that...I will check into that.


72 posted on 08/13/2010 10:39:47 AM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Pessimist

Can’t go wrong with a Ruger LCP.


73 posted on 08/13/2010 10:41:04 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: Gorzaloon

The real point about of lot of this IMO...

You need less than 6 rounds to protect yourself.

So why pick a weaker smaller caliber weapon to carry more than a few rounds.

You can get ultra-compact weapons of much more lethal caliber.

You hit someone with one critical defense 45 round they have a greater than 80% chance of dying - PERIOD.

So my view is to pick a weapon that can deliver the stopping that will work with one bullet if necessary.


74 posted on 08/13/2010 10:42:17 AM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Pessimist
PS: Just to stir the pot, I'd even consider .380...

Look at the CZ-82's on the C&R list. They're running around $220 a copy or so and the ammo is cheap. Ballistically it's roughly equivalent to a .38 spl. Better than a .380 but not as powerful as a 9 mil.

They're chambered in 9 x 18 Makarov.

75 posted on 08/13/2010 10:44:16 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Pessimist

76 posted on 08/13/2010 10:48:11 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Need work. MBA, CPA, Black Belt. Diverse industry and cross border experience.)
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To: Illuminatas

That’s purty. Mrs. Liberty and I just got his and her Taurus .380s. Hers is Barbie-doll pink.


77 posted on 08/13/2010 10:49:40 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Build a man a fire; he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire; he'll be warm the rest of his life)
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To: Pessimist
Glock 29 - One more than 9 is mighty fine


78 posted on 08/13/2010 11:05:18 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (It's easy being a communist when you're rich.)
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To: Tucson Jim

Look at the 000 buckshot patterns. Big holes, about 2.5 inches pattern.

Very lethal.


79 posted on 08/13/2010 11:06:41 AM PDT by texmexis best (My)
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To: Niteranger68

“Can’t do IWB.....just not comfortable for me.”

Man, that’s what I’m thinking too.

I guess I’ll have to try one on, but it seems like it would have to be uncomfortable.


80 posted on 08/13/2010 11:10:52 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Pessimist; RobRoy

And the reason for the implementation of the 1911 in the first place is because of the Phillipine/American war. This conflict happened as America colonized the Phillipines after the Spainish American war. The Army was fighting Phillipine Guirillas named the Morros. These Phillipinos would get all worked up on drugs and charge the American positions. The Officers found that their .38 service revolvers would take multiple shots to put the Moros down. After that, the Army was in search of a round that would have more stopping power.


81 posted on 08/13/2010 11:11:16 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Blueflag

Two inches is what I train to perform. Don’t always get it but I can hit in regularly on the range in no stress and about 50/50 on speed drills. I stress 2” because most people under stress will increase that radius 2x or even 3x. I figure 6” in close quarters battle will be good enough to hit the heart or head.


82 posted on 08/13/2010 11:13:23 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Pessimist

If I did force myself to go IWB, I would have to consider a Crossbreed SuperTuck in horsehide. More of a rig than just a holster...could be comfortable.


83 posted on 08/13/2010 11:15:33 AM PDT by Niteranger68 (I believe in man-made political climate change.)
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To: Pessimist
Check out the Taurus PT145 Millennium Pro. Look at the Stainless version.

They are rated very well, have a smooth trigger pull, and since the PT145 is a 45ACP it packs a punch.

I put a ArmaLaser red dot on mine (it is made just for the PT145 front rail) and use 230gr +P Hydra-Shok ammo. It will put down an attacker ASAP.

I like the Taurus Millennium series so much that I just replaced my wife's carry weapon with the PT111 MilPro (9mm). Load that with the 124gr +P Hydra-Shok ammo and she can do what is needed too (my wife is a GREAT shot even under pressure).

The Taurus Millennium series are built very well and are not hard on the wallet. I got mine via one of the auction web sites and saved a ton of money, even with the transfer fees. The PT11 cost me $370 with shipping and all fees while a local store wants $435 just for the pistol alone. An ArmaLaser costs about $175.

I used to carry either a Colt Gold Cup Int’l Match MkIV (top line 1911) or a Dan Wesson 15-2V with a 2” barrel (revolver). They are both great but the Colt is big and the Dan Wesson is thick, being a revolver. The Taurus is a smaller frame and light weight.

I do not work for, or have any financial dealings with Taurus. I just like their prices and quality. I have expensive weapons too but most are too large to carry and I just do not want to fork over over $1000 for a handgun right now; especially since you can find some great ones at a better price point.

84 posted on 08/13/2010 11:16:40 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: taxcontrol

No worries. Two inch groups at 10 - 12 feet, no stress *SHOULD* be doable ... with two hands, ‘rapid’ fire.

See you at the range.


85 posted on 08/13/2010 11:18:50 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
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To: Pessimist

For caliber, there is a good discussion here:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?111181-Is-there-any-real-evidence-that-one-caliber-is-a-better-fight-stopper-than-another

The consensus seems to be that there is no proof that any of the major calibers is better than another at stopping a man.

For carry, think light. The smallest gun I can comfortably shoot accurately is a S&W Model 60. I use 38+P ammo because it has a long record of success with 158 grain bullets, and is a little easier on follow-up shots than when loaded with 357 Mags.

But since you seem to like semiautos OK, I’d say you have a choice of several hundred excellent guns in multiple calibers...


86 posted on 08/13/2010 11:21:14 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (When the ass brays, don't reply...)
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To: Pessimist

87 posted on 08/13/2010 11:26:39 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (When the ass brays, don't reply...)
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To: Niteranger68
I'm a little heavy & a gun on my belt will hold out just about any shirt or light jacket. My son can carry just about anything on his hip & it disappears under whatever shirt or jacket he wears.

If your size makes concealability difficult, you may have to settle on something like a fanny pack. I don't like them myself. Cross draw can be very difficult for those with a large belly, so consider your physical limitations as well

88 posted on 08/13/2010 11:27:37 AM PDT by Strider2
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To: Illuminatas; Candor7

I’ll have to check on of those out at the range.

Sounds just about right for me.

http://gunblast.com/Ruger-LCP.htm


89 posted on 08/13/2010 11:28:13 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: born2bfree

I looked at the site.

Is that circle leather? Almost looks like wood! :)

So if you wear this on the side, don’t you need pansts with a bigger waist?


90 posted on 08/13/2010 11:31:05 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: surfer
So my view is to pick a weapon that can deliver the stopping that will work with one bullet if necessary.

I should recuse myself from these things, really.

I reload, and shoot a lot. A lot, for free, because I have a life membership at our range. My wife is a Certified Instructor.

We don't miss. Especially at powder burn range. So maybe our situation is not normal...

91 posted on 08/13/2010 11:35:17 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: Gorzaloon

I have low caliber weapons for the range that I love to shoot a lot and it definitely is cheaper.

I was referring to being in a situation where you need to use it outside a range...my view is that a larger caliber is better than smaller in that situation.


92 posted on 08/13/2010 11:45:00 AM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: dirtboy

I have the original shoulder holster and cartridge loop holder. It is a Navy pilot version.


93 posted on 08/13/2010 11:52:53 AM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: OldMissileer

I have been looking at the Taurus 24/7 Compact in .45. I like the rubber grips like on my Judge and the 12+1 capacity is nice. Anybody have any experience with this?


94 posted on 08/13/2010 12:08:45 PM PDT by Big Mack (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat VEGETABLES!)
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To: Gaffer
I have the original shoulder holster and cartridge loop holder. It is a Navy pilot version.

I have a belt holster - likewise, Navy pilot issue (my grandfather was on a carrier on WWII, and got it from a pilot). But IMO it was meant for external carry, not concealed - that big honkin' hammer would catch too easily on clothing.

95 posted on 08/13/2010 12:10:00 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Retired Greyhound

btw...picked these up for the Judge...they are great and really well made.

http://www.5starfirearms.com/44_45_5shot.html


96 posted on 08/13/2010 12:13:25 PM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Pessimist

CZ RAMI


97 posted on 08/13/2010 12:14:05 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: dirtboy

I agree. It was over the neck and shoulder over the flight suit. Only problem with it is that it isn’t a +P capable one, otherwise it’s tight, accurate and damn well made.


98 posted on 08/13/2010 12:16:59 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Pessimist

http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/bersa-firearms/thunder-380-concealed-carry.html

Bersa Thunder 380 cc

I have a standard Thunder 380 and the cc version is a bit more tapered and comes with a holster.

It’s helpful to me to have two guns that don’t create two learning curves for me.


99 posted on 08/13/2010 12:30:50 PM PDT by IOWAfan (College Football is almost here! Go Hawkeyes!)
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To: Retired Greyhound

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=zyv051562a&lsrc=NZ&src=BE550


100 posted on 08/13/2010 12:34:20 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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