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Lost Cities of the Sahara
University of Leicester ^ | July 26, 2000 | Barbara Whiteman

Posted on 12/26/2010 9:06:39 PM PST by SunkenCiv

...the Garamantes - a mysterious desert people of Greco-Roman date (broadly 500 BC AD 500)... Inhabiting a region that had already been for several thousand years a hyper-arid desert environment, with negligible rainfall, elevated summer temperatures and blistering expanses of barren sand and rock... have long been an enigma. They were depicted by Roman sources as ungovernable nomadic barbarians, who raided the settled agricultural zone and cities of the Mediterranean littoral. Following up earlier work by Daniels, the current project allows a different picture of the Garamantes to be drawn. Archaeological evidence shows them to have been a complex and urbanised society, with a strong emphasis on oasis agriculture a picture far removed from the shiftless nomads of our ancient sources...

With over 500 Garamantian sites now recorded, and many susceptible to dating for the first time, a reappraisal of this early Libyan state can be made on the basis of concrete evidence. The picture that emerges is of a powerful Saharan polity, employing a wide range of material culture and architectural styles to reinforce a pronounced social hierarchy. Faunal analysis shows that there were animals in the diet, notably sheep/goat, but it is clear that pastoralism lagged far behind sedentary agriculture in this desert kingdom... the very scale of Garamantian irrigated agriculture may have had a long-term impact on the aquifer they were tapping into... by the later middle ages all the foggaras appear to have been abandoned in favour of small-scale garden cultivation based on wells.

(Excerpt) Read more at le.ac.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: africa; amazon; desertification; garamantes; globalwarminghoax; godsgravesglyphs; libya; paleoclimatology; refoliation; romanempire; sahara
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This reminds me of the Loulan fabrics, western China, much older than this though:
2000-year old textile produced by the Garamantes people of the Libyan Central Sahara.

Lost Cities of the Sahara [Archaeology]

1 posted on 12/26/2010 9:06:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv
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The Tassili n’Ajjer [Algeria] : birthplace of ancient Egypt ?
Journal 3 | 04-05-08 | Phillip Coppens
Posted on 04/05/2008 4:08:59 PM PDT by Renfield
8 posted on 04/06/2008 5:15:41 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1997350/posts?page=8#8

Ancient lakes of the Sahara
Innovations Report | Jan 19, 2006 | University of Reading
Posted on 01/21/2006 4:14:03 AM PST by Tyche
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1562135/posts


2 posted on 12/26/2010 9:07:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Very pretty fabric!


3 posted on 12/26/2010 9:08:30 PM PST by thecodont
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach ·
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To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

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4 posted on 12/26/2010 9:08:41 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Sounds like they had to regress because the acquifer ran dry. Wait, the climate was changing back then too?? How is that possible?? Aren’t we always being told that only modern human industries can do that??


5 posted on 12/26/2010 9:13:54 PM PST by GeronL (#7 top poster at CC, friend to all, nicest guy ever, +96/-14, ignored by 1 sockpuppet.. oh & BANNED)
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To: thecodont
They liked colorful stuff, definitely, at least as much as we do. Here's something I spotted reprised in the Oct issue of BAR, originally in the 2008 issue, an article about Afghanistan:

TITLE

6 posted on 12/26/2010 9:14:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Was the Sahara a green and jungle-like place back then?


7 posted on 12/26/2010 9:15:20 PM PST by GeronL (#7 top poster at CC, friend to all, nicest guy ever, +96/-14, ignored by 1 sockpuppet.. oh & BANNED)
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To: GeronL

Modern (such as it is) Libya has been building a mother of a water conduit to tap desert aquifers for coastal use. Yeah, that’ll work. No point in learning from the experiences of people for the Time of Ignorance.


8 posted on 12/26/2010 9:15:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting... don’t think I have seen reference to clear glass back much in those days.


9 posted on 12/26/2010 9:16:48 PM PST by GeronL (#7 top poster at CC, friend to all, nicest guy ever, +96/-14, ignored by 1 sockpuppet.. oh & BANNED)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Rurudyne; steelyourfaith; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; xcamel

Whoops, forgot to ping.


10 posted on 12/26/2010 9:17:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Why couldn’t “modern” Libya just desalinate ocean water using their oil for the energy? Or even a large solar desalination plant like a superlarge greenhouse?


11 posted on 12/26/2010 9:18:50 PM PST by GeronL (#7 top poster at CC, friend to all, nicest guy ever, +96/-14, ignored by 1 sockpuppet.. oh & BANNED)
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To: SunkenCiv

B-24 Bomber Lady Be Good. This aircraft was discovered in the Libyan Desert 16 years after it lost its way back from a World War II mission to bomb Naples, Italy on 4 April 1943. The plane was found in 1959 by an oil exploration team, miraculously preserved by the desert environment. The next year the bodies of eight of the nine crew members were recovered by Quartermaster Graves Registration personnel.


12 posted on 12/26/2010 9:20:52 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: GeronL

Clear glass used to be placed in ancient Syria (Aram), but it really came into its own during the Roman Empire. Sez here on the wiki-wacky that Roman glassmaking was centered on Trier, in Germany. Anyway, regardless, if you’re ever near this, go to it:

http://www.cmog.org/dynamic.aspx?id=1674


13 posted on 12/26/2010 9:21:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

thanks


14 posted on 12/26/2010 9:26:00 PM PST by GeronL (#7 top poster at CC, friend to all, nicest guy ever, +96/-14, ignored by 1 sockpuppet.. oh & BANNED)
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To: GeronL

It would seem like a natural in any country with a lot of waste ground, lots of sun, and access to the sea. It would require a water to water heat exchange system so that the more briny solution that has been giving off evaporation in the heat could be freshened with less briny solution from the sea. It could run off photovoltaics and windmills (not necessarily wind-generated electricity), but fairly low-maintenance, be very low cost, and the condensation process could take place up a hill in a buried tank (actually a series of them) with no vent. It would be extravagant in size for the amount of freshwater made, but cheap as all get-out.


15 posted on 12/26/2010 9:26:52 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: JoeProBono

That’s interesting, I never knew that any of the crew was found. Thanks JPB.


16 posted on 12/26/2010 9:27:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv; GeronL
Clear glass used to be placed in ancient Syria (Aram), but it really came into its own during the Roman Empire.

Does the Italian surname Vetro mean "glassmaker"?

17 posted on 12/26/2010 9:29:07 PM PST by thecodont
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To: SunkenCiv

Oh... good ideas.

definitely not for the desert islands unless they have a compact way of doing it.


18 posted on 12/26/2010 9:30:34 PM PST by GeronL (#7 top poster at CC, friend to all, nicest guy ever, +96/-14, ignored by 1 sockpuppet.. oh & BANNED)
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To: thecodont

Probably where in-vitro came from too.... they made glass and their italians.... come on...


19 posted on 12/26/2010 9:31:16 PM PST by GeronL (#7 top poster at CC, friend to all, nicest guy ever, +96/-14, ignored by 1 sockpuppet.. oh & BANNED)
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To: SunkenCiv

Bttt.


20 posted on 12/26/2010 9:37:45 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (Had God not driven man from the Garden of Eden the Sierra Club surely would have.)
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To: SunkenCiv
I was stationed at Wheelus Air Base in 1969 during the coup. We had relics from the Lady Be Good on display.


21 posted on 12/26/2010 9:39:14 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: GeronL

It could work even better offshore — a sort of cell structure, like a beehive, brine would sink, heat would exchange, fresher water would rise, sun’s rays would evaporate it, and the part of this floating flexi plastic that rode high would be continuously evacuated by blowers, carrying the hot vapor-laden air to shore, up one or more black rigid tubes getting that last bit of solar heat, then plunge through the tank wall, across the water that was already collected, there to condense. Simpler, maybe even cheaper, probably easier to operate, and unlimited size. Also would have the virtue of not consuming the shoreline, which would then be (trickle-) irrigated for agriculture as well as general refoliation.


22 posted on 12/26/2010 9:39:47 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: JoeProBono

Wow!


23 posted on 12/26/2010 9:40:53 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

well water is still cheaper than desalinized water by a long shot.

However, in the next decade or less— likely the
cost of desalinized water will drop below well water.

But I don’t think that’s generally known.

There’s right now a growing fund of money world wide going into desalination research—as cheap desalinized water will be one of the keystone technologies of the 21st century.


24 posted on 12/26/2010 9:45:57 PM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: SunkenCiv

well water is still cheaper than desalinized water by a long shot.

However, in the next decade or less— likely the
cost of desalinized water will drop below well water.

But I don’t think that’s generally known.

There’s right now a growing fund of money world wide going into desalination research—as cheap desalinized water will be one of the keystone technologies of the 21st century.


25 posted on 12/26/2010 9:46:10 PM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: SunkenCiv
By the way, Wheelus Air Base was on shores of Tripoli.

Moammar Gadhafi owns it now.

26 posted on 12/26/2010 9:52:59 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: JoeProBono
The movie Flight of the Phoenix uses a similar plot theme from the story of the Lady be Good.


27 posted on 12/26/2010 9:57:50 PM PST by Rebelbase ( Islam is a mental disorder.)
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To: JoeProBono

I saw the movie “Sole Survivor”. This was an excellent movie (made for TV), though haunting based on the “Lady Be Good” .


28 posted on 12/26/2010 10:00:58 PM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the occupation media. There are Wars and Rumors of War.)
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To: PA Engineer

29 posted on 12/26/2010 10:05:10 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: GeronL

“Wait, the climate was changing back then too?? How is that possible??”

Why, it was those evil, ancient SUV’s, of course. Don’t you know ANYTHING?


30 posted on 12/26/2010 10:05:16 PM PST by tcrlaf (Obama White House=Tammany Hall on the National Mall)
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To: JoeProBono

31 posted on 12/26/2010 10:11:36 PM PST by Rebelbase ( Islam is a mental disorder.)
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To: Rebelbase
Thanks!

The "Lady Be Good" Stained Glass Window from the Wheelus Air Force Base Chapel is now on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

The fueslage of the Lady Be Good, found in the desert seventeen years after the crash

In a souvenir photograph taken shortly before the crash, the crewmen of the Lady Be Good clown for the camera. From left:Staff Sergeant Vernon L. Moore, Second Lieutenant Hays, Second Lieutenant John S. Woravka, Staff Sergeant Guy E. Shelley, and Technical Sergeant Harold J. Ripslinger.

32 posted on 12/26/2010 10:21:00 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: JoeProBono

Not to belabor the obvious, but during WW2 there were thousands of missing planes which have never been found.

My great uncle was bombardier on such a plane lost over Ploesti in the first daylight raids by the USAA.

The people who are related to the crew of the “Lady Be Good” at least now know what happened to their loved ones.

God Bless ALL of their souls and those of their families.

AMEN.


33 posted on 12/26/2010 10:45:00 PM PST by warm n fuzzy (Really)
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To: warm n fuzzy

2nd Lt. David R. Kingsley Born at Portland, Oregon, June 27, 1918, he earned the Medal of Honor during World War II, where he served as a bombardier on a B-17 on a raid into Romania on June 23, 1944. During the mission the aircraft was badly damaged by enemy fire and forced to drop out of the formation. The pilot continued on to the target, the Ploesti Oil Fields, and there he dropped his bombs, severely damaging the installation. The aircraft was unable to keep up with the formation on the return trip and was attacked by enemy aircraft, during which the plane was further damaged and the tail gunner badly wounded. Kingsley gave aid to the gunner and then went to give aid to the ball gunner who had also been wounded. The pilot gave the order to bail out but Kingsley found that the tail gunner's parachute was missing. He placed his own chute on the wounded man and then he helped the wounded men bail out of the burning plane. The last sight of him was as he stood on the bomb bay catwalk while the plane flew on auto pilot until it crashed a few minutes later.


34 posted on 12/26/2010 10:53:41 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: JoeProBono

“A brave man dies once, a coward dies a thousand times.”

My great uncle’s name was David Milliken, he is still MIA presumed dead.

Lord have mercy on them all.

AMEN.


35 posted on 12/27/2010 12:03:00 AM PST by warm n fuzzy (Really)
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To: GeronL
Was the Sahara a green and jungle-like place back then?

Not that recently, but it was at one time. I've seen some cave-drawings there depicting big game, trees, etc.

36 posted on 12/27/2010 12:10:55 AM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Rebelbase; SunkenCiv; JoeProBono
Twilight Zone episode "King Nine Will Not Return" 9/30/60 also has the theme of a WWII era bomber down in the desert.


37 posted on 12/27/2010 1:53:04 AM PST by steelyourfaith (ObamaCare Death Panels: a Final Solution to the looming Social Security crisis ?)
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To: SunkenCiv

38 posted on 12/27/2010 3:09:01 AM PST by Cisco Nix (Real Conservatives stay sober and focused)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ve had a very minor part in that project.... inspecting the fiber optic cable prior to export. It is called The Great Man Made River Project.


39 posted on 12/27/2010 5:07:40 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 .....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: SunkenCiv

I think of them as similar to the Nabataeans, though on a lesser scale, due to the location; there was a good north-south trade route in their area, and it was their “run.” Next best thing to a river.


40 posted on 12/27/2010 6:23:56 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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To: SunkenCiv
It could work even better offshore — a sort of cell structure, like a beehive

I've seen quite a few of those while perusing Google earth.

41 posted on 12/27/2010 6:26:38 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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To: JoeProBono

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6A_qNAQCGU

Sole Survivor is on youtube, there’s part one, the rest are there as well.


42 posted on 12/27/2010 6:32:22 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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To: tcrlaf
Why, it was those evil, ancient SUV’s, of course. Don’t you know ANYTHING?

I think if you check your history you'll find it was the SUC, or Sport Utility Camel. Lots of uncontrolled methane emissions.

43 posted on 12/27/2010 6:42:10 AM PST by ken in texas
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To: GeronL

It wasn’t jungle like. However, it may not have been as dry and dead as it is today. The Sahel is losing its lakes and dying of “desertification” from over-grazing by goats and sheep. These cities may have been on the edge of dry grassland in their time before their livestock destroyed the grasses, causing the areas to dry up.


44 posted on 12/27/2010 7:05:26 AM PST by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Sirat: Through the Fires of Hell" - on amazon.com)
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To: GeronL

Actually, we were told that modern urban civilizations, in addition to natural phenomena, can effect climate change on a large scale.

We already knew that pre-modern civilizations can effect climate change. Diamond’s “Collapse” gives a great explanation of what occurred on Easter Island as it was gradually deforested.

Cape Verde Island is another great example of man-made climate (in this case, micro-climate) change. Named “Cape Verde” by European explorers because it was so lush and verdant, the island was deforested over 200 years of intense habitation. Rain clouds had formerly been “caught” by the forests as they moved out from the African continent. With the trees gone, the clouds just passed right over without dropping precipitation.

Today Cape Verde is dry, dusty, impoverished. We’ve known for centuries that men can effect the climate, just as natural phenomena can.


45 posted on 12/27/2010 8:05:53 AM PST by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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To: SunkenCiv

“They were depicted by Roman sources as ungovernable nomadic barbarians.”

Well, it’s pretty obvious that the Garamantes could by governed by themselves. It’s the *Romans* that they weren’t interested in being governed by.

Of course, the Romans wrote the history books after the Garamantes were gone, so they could depict them in any way they wanted. That’s usually the way it works: empires always depict the people that fight back as “barbarians,” “uncivilized,” “pagans,” “primitive.” That why I love Herodotus. He reports these civilizations as an anthropologist would, without judgment. It makes for much more informative reading.


46 posted on 12/27/2010 8:13:33 AM PST by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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To: JoeProBono; SunkenCiv

This thread is an interesting mix of ancient and modern history. Thanks, guys.


47 posted on 12/27/2010 11:46:46 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: worst-case scenario

Yup, Herodotus had no axes to grind, unlike his ancient-world critics and the mob of misinformed and/or Muzzies out there. He traveled in Egypt as well as in the Persian empire, and preserved an invaluable corpus of testimony that would otherwise have been lost. The example I usually cite is his discussion of why the Nile floods out of season. He lists three that he heard, including the real reason, which he notes is the least likely of all, then offers a fourth of his own that’s unintentionally hilarious. :’) That’s a good example of his honesty, something often lacking in historians then and now.


48 posted on 12/27/2010 5:33:18 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: colorado tanker

:’) We have a sixth sands about what FReepers will like.


49 posted on 12/27/2010 5:37:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Back when I was younger and seemed to have time to read fiction, I read several books by this author. His stuff is set in South Africa.

As I recall, some rip-roaring stuff.

http://www.wilbursmithbooks.com/home/index.html


50 posted on 12/27/2010 5:43:36 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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