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Studying how snakes got legless
BBC ^ | 8 February 2011 | Jonathan Amos

Posted on 02/08/2011 9:57:23 AM PST by Natufian

A 95-million-year-old fossil is helping scientists understand how snakes lost their legs through evolutionary time.

Found in Lebanon, the specimen is one of only three examples of an ancient snake with preserved leg bones.

One rear leg is clearly visible but researchers had to use a novel X-ray technique to examine another leg hidden inside the fossil rock.

Writing in the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, the team says the snake records an early stage in limb loss.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: evolution; godsgravesglyphs; science; snakes
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Fassssscinating
1 posted on 02/08/2011 9:57:31 AM PST by Natufian
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping!


2 posted on 02/08/2011 9:58:29 AM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: Natufian

Public transportation?


3 posted on 02/08/2011 10:01:09 AM PST by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God 's redemption.)
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To: Borax Queen; Darksheare

*Ponders how they learned to hiss without legs*


4 posted on 02/08/2011 10:01:42 AM PST by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: Natufian

See: Genesis 3:14


5 posted on 02/08/2011 10:02:46 AM PST by Above My Pay Grade
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To: Natufian

Had to have happened prior to adam and eve being offered apple by snake.


6 posted on 02/08/2011 10:05:02 AM PST by artificial intelligence (Your data will be processed by me for future input. Thank you.)
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To: Natufian
Evolution and evoloserism aren't about science, they're about lifestyles.


7 posted on 02/08/2011 10:06:02 AM PST by wendy1946
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To: Natufian

It’s possible that the leg remnants belong to something the snake ate.

Or could be a mutant salamander.


8 posted on 02/08/2011 10:07:06 AM PST by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God 's redemption.)
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To: sodpoodle
Or could be a mutant salamander.

Salamanders belong to an entirely different class - Amphibia. Snakes and lizards belong to the class Reptilia.

I'm sure that paleontologists are quite capable of distinguishing between the two.

Regards,

9 posted on 02/08/2011 10:21:10 AM PST by alexander_busek
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To: Above My Pay Grade

10 posted on 02/08/2011 10:22:04 AM PST by stormer
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To: Natufian

Maybe that bone is just something the snake ate.


11 posted on 02/08/2011 10:27:18 AM PST by bolobaby
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To: artificial intelligence

No, it happened in the immediate aftermath of the “treason of the garden”.


12 posted on 02/08/2011 10:39:48 AM PST by G Larry
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To: Natufian


13 posted on 02/08/2011 10:42:09 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: Natufian

Of course this couldn’t be an extinct species. No sir, that wouldn’t fit in with the propaganda.


14 posted on 02/08/2011 10:45:17 AM PST by vpintheak (Democrats: Robbing humans of their dignity 1 law at a time)
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To: Natufian

According to scientist Colin Patterson on page 7 & 8 of the following transcript of his speech to the American Museum of Natural History in 1981, snakes come from chickens.

http://biology.swau.edu/faculty/nclasses/classes/patterson.pdf

Obviously, chickens became legless then evolved into reptiles. Now if we can only engineer them to grow nothing but wings, we’d have perfection.


15 posted on 02/08/2011 10:49:25 AM PST by angryoldfatman
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To: artificial intelligence

“Snakes have been f***ing themselves long before Adam and Eve T.”

Paulie Walnuts


16 posted on 02/08/2011 11:00:49 AM PST by gusty
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To: artificial intelligence

Happened immediately after


17 posted on 02/08/2011 11:33:15 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: Above My Pay Grade

It is incredible that the Bible describes why snakes have no legs. My wife and I discussed this a bit.

I have an 8’ Yellow Anaconda. He has ‘spurs’ on either side near his tail. These are attached to small bones inside that one can say are vestigial remnants of legs. These spurs supposedly serve a function during reproduction.

There was a little dismay in my wife, that those vestigial bones could lend credence to the evolution arguement. So, just for giggles, we went to the Book.

There, is described that the ‘serpent’ tempted eve, we all know that story. But, then it says that God tells the serpent that because of this, “upon your belly you shall go”. Why would God tell the serpent that unless he was not upon his belly prior to his deception?

And then also, think of the incredible ‘fear’ the majority of people have for snakes - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and your seed and her seed.

No evolution here.


18 posted on 02/08/2011 11:44:38 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: Natufian
Start here. Multiple specimens to check.


19 posted on 02/08/2011 11:47:34 AM PST by Daffynition ( Live EACH DAY as if it were your last, but EXPECT that there still may be a tomorrow.)
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To: JoeProBono

20 posted on 02/08/2011 11:49:17 AM PST by Daffynition ( Live EACH DAY as if it were your last, but EXPECT that there still may be a tomorrow.)
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To: RoadGumby
But, then it says that God tells the serpent that because of this, “upon your belly you shall go”. Why would God tell the serpent that unless he was not upon his belly prior to his deception?

Or maybe, just maybe, that's a story made up by a bunch of superstitious primitive people with no clue about scientific methods to explain why snakes don't have legs. If you have no history of science it's pretty easy to credit everything to an invisible man in the sky.

21 posted on 02/08/2011 11:50:03 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: RoadGumby

Nice reply, well done.


22 posted on 02/08/2011 11:50:35 AM PST by Scythian
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To: Lurker

Or maybe you are incredibly wrong. I grew up under a heavy science interest. At the time, so many thousands of years ago, there wasn’t even an inkling of evolution. No idea that snakes may have perhaps changed from legged ancestors. Why would Moses, undethe guidance of the Holy Spirit, pen something that suggests that snakes may have had legs? God told Moses what had happened.


23 posted on 02/08/2011 11:54:21 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: RoadGumby
Why would Moses, undethe guidance of the Holy Spirit, pen something that suggests that snakes may have had legs?

Because he liked making stories up to amuse people or to keep them in line?

God told Moses what had happened.

Moses said that God told him. Nobody was there to confirm it.

24 posted on 02/08/2011 12:02:43 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

Hide your face from truth if you wish, that is your perogative.

I sincerely doubt Moses account of the non-evolution aspects of a serpent losing its legs is there ‘to keep people in line’.

So you discount that God is the author, opine that Moses lied. Yet the accounts given in Genesis all have ‘witnesses’. The plagues in Egypt. The Red Sea parting, etc.

What you are doing by attempting to discount Genesis, is to discount the Bible and/or God. In so doing you remove the unalienable rights granted you by your Creator. In so doing, you remove the basic foundation of what made this country great for so long. Good job.


25 posted on 02/08/2011 12:10:17 PM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: RoadGumby
In so doing you remove the unalienable rights granted you by your Creator.

My inalienable rights come by virtue of me being a sentient human being. I don't need an invisible man in the sky for that.

Yet the accounts given in Genesis all have ‘witnesses’.

Really. Who witnessed "In the beginning Earth was void and without form"? Who witnessed "and on the 7th day God rested"?

The plagues in Egypt. The Red Sea parting, etc.

That's not the Book of Genesis. That's in Exodus. Try actually reading it.

26 posted on 02/08/2011 12:24:30 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

Read the founding documents for the country Lurker. Become educated. Your rights are granted, per the founding, by your Creator. Which is why man (i.e. the Gov’t) can not take them away.

True, the book of Exodus, the writer being the same man (Moses) being led by the Holy Spirit. My own failure to recall the correct book does not render the truths therein untrue.

Without that ‘invisible man in the sky’ you are but a cosmic accident, worth nothing compared to any other form of life, and of no consequence.


27 posted on 02/08/2011 12:39:32 PM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: Lurker; kosta50
Indeed!

Strange why gods need human messengers to convey, huh? Man's faith in a god can only come after his faith in a human prophet, because of this convenient arrangement.

28 posted on 02/08/2011 1:12:51 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: RoadGumby
Read the founding documents for the country Lurker.

I have.

Your rights are granted, per the founding, by your Creator.

So your position is that if there is no God, we have no inalienable Rights? Does that about cover it?

Which is why man (i.e. the Gov’t) can not take them away.

Really? Let's ask those 6 million Jews the Nazi government murdered if their Rights were taken away or not. Let's ask the 20 million or so that Stalin murdered if their Rights were taken away by the Soviet government or not.

My own failure to recall the correct book does not render the truths therein untrue.

Your own words do. You said the events in Genesis were 'witnessed'. I said they weren't. I was right. You were wrong.

The difference between people like you and me is that you need something outside of yourself, real or not, to validate your life, your worth, and your inalienable Rights. I do not.

My Rights exist because I exist. I don't need any invisible, all seeing, all knowing, all forgiving entity for that.

Now you have a nice day.

L

29 posted on 02/08/2011 1:15:02 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker; RoadGumby
If you have no history of science it's pretty easy to credit everything to an invisible imagined man in the sky
30 posted on 02/08/2011 1:32:54 PM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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To: James C. Bennett; Lurker
Strange why gods need human messengers to convey, huh? Man's faith in a god can only come after his faith in a human prophet, because of this convenient arrangement

At least, if the messengers were all on the same sheet of music, maybe there would be some credibility to their stories, but when you take the sum total of all "revealed" religions and "inspired" interpretations on earth, they are like night and day. Of course, each claims its book is the only true one...and all others are wrong.

31 posted on 02/08/2011 1:38:48 PM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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To: kosta50

You and Lurker (along with most other libs) may choose to believe that. No skin off my nose. Those of us who do know and believe, well, we’ll pray for you regardless.


32 posted on 02/08/2011 1:39:41 PM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: RoadGumby
You and Lurker (along with most other libs

Real Christian of you to toss around insults like that. Is that what they teach you in the Church of your choice?

33 posted on 02/08/2011 1:52:34 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

Just calling wrong wrong. You are wrong, and as I said, I will do that Christian thing and pray for you.


34 posted on 02/08/2011 1:53:52 PM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: RoadGumby

Christian is as Christian does. I seem to recall something in the Bible about motes and beams. Does it ring any bells with you?


35 posted on 02/08/2011 1:56:58 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker
The Truth you deny the founders of this free republic called "self-evident," or, to put it in the modern vernacular, "as plain as the nose on your face."

You may delude yourself into thinking that the American republic can stand without that cornerstone assertion as the basis for our claim to rights, but the evidence is everywhere around us that it cannot.

The further we get from those principles, the principles that Frederick Douglass rightly called the "ringbolt of our nation's destiny," the closer we come to the total dissolution of this Union.

As John Adams said:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."

36 posted on 02/08/2011 1:56:58 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Is this a Tea Party, like the kind that happened in 1773, or the kind where they serve crumpets?)
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To: EternalVigilance

So, if there’s no God we have no inalienable Rights?


37 posted on 02/08/2011 1:58:03 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

You imply I do not pray for myself?

Your words are eerily similar to the lib tactic of trying to silence a Christian. Won’t work here.

The thread regarded Snakes, their lack of legs and evolution. The ridicule happened toward me, toward the account in the Bible, and blatantly mocked God.

There is also something in there about “God will not be mocked”. It is not in your shoes that I would wish to be. As I said, you are in my prayers.


38 posted on 02/08/2011 2:02:10 PM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: Lurker
So, if there’s no God we have no inalienable Rights?

Of course not. Without God there is no external standard. It's all dependent on the whim of the individual.

The result of which is that every man is a law unto himself...doing what is right in his own eyes.

Which always leads to the destruction of the rights to life, liberty and private property. Always. Without fail.

39 posted on 02/08/2011 2:21:52 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Is this a Tea Party, like the kind that happened in 1773, or the kind where they serve crumpets?)
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To: Lurker

The very word “inalienable,” or “unalienable,” as you please, implies the existence of God by the very nature of its use in connection to rights.

The word came from European property law, in which everything was owned by the sovereign, but he granted the use of it to whomever he pleased. The receiver of that loan of property had full use of it, but could not rightfully have it taken from him by any man, nor could he rightfully give it away.

The founders used that word quite deliberately, knowing full well its implications.

So, again, no, there are no unalienable rights apart from God. It’s all dependent on the rule and the whim of of men, not of the natural law, as instituted by Nature’s God.


40 posted on 02/08/2011 2:28:07 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Is this a Tea Party, like the kind that happened in 1773, or the kind where they serve crumpets?)
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To: Natufian; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

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Thanks Natufian. A 95-million-year-old fossil found in Lebanon, I wonder how long ago? :')

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword ·
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41 posted on 02/08/2011 5:45:37 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Lurker

“My inalienable rights come by virtue of me being a sentient human being.”

That’s exactly what Oliver Wendell Holmes thought. The obvious fault in that thinking, and I don’t have a dog in this fight, is that other human beings have to agree.

Holmes was a bad jurist.


42 posted on 02/08/2011 6:33:22 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Lurker

Bingo.

The snake in the Garden of Eden was symbolic of Satan, and used because in Hebrew society snakes were feared and hated, in part because neighboring Pagan societies worshiped them.

This is a great article about a great animal.


43 posted on 02/08/2011 6:50:20 PM PST by ZULU (No nation which ever attempted to tolerate Islam, escaped total Islamization.)
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To: Natufian

Valid only if you are an advocate of the pseudo-science theory called evolution.


44 posted on 02/08/2011 7:11:41 PM PST by LiteKeeper ("Psalm 109:8")
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To: RoadGumby; Luker
You and Lurker (along with most other libs)... So, not sharing your supersititon makes me and Lurker 'libs'? Some thinking you have.
45 posted on 02/08/2011 8:16:40 PM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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To: Natufian
Not all snakes are legless.


I know. I worked with a few.

46 posted on 02/09/2011 4:13:20 AM PST by Condor51 (Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Congressman. But I repeat myself. [Mark Twain])
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To: kosta50

Your ridicule, disrespect for those beliefs is hand in hand with the methods of liberals.

If it looks, walks and sounds like a duck.....

Your methods sound like a duck.


47 posted on 02/09/2011 5:00:00 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: Natufian

Found in the MidEast.

Hmmm?


48 posted on 02/09/2011 6:10:23 AM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man.)
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To: 1010RD
The obvious fault in that thinking, and I don’t have a dog in this fight, is that other human beings have to agree.

That situation attains whether or not there is a God.

49 posted on 02/09/2011 8:24:40 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker
That situation attains whether or not there is a God.

It cannot attain without a God, at least not a Christian God.

Follow the thread of history. Where a Christian God is absent you don't have a movement toward liberty, but away from it. You may argue survivorship bias, but the reality is that you're only able to have this conversation because Christians have a religion that developed into tolerance, scientific thinking, and restraint.

Atheistic societies go to totalitarianism quickly, most start there.

(I hope this doesn't sound like an attack. I don't see you in Hell or anything like that ;-] )

50 posted on 02/09/2011 9:24:30 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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