OBAMA NOT EVEN A UNITED STATES CITIZEN

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17559086/Obama-Not-Even-A-United-States-Citizen-The-Case-Against-Obama-The ^ | July 2, 2009 | Paul Dunk

[grey_whiskers]

Re: #4

Let's be extra careful to check the Kerning, mmmkay?

Cheers!

[little jeremiah]

BTTT.

[little jeremiah]

Sven doesn’t agree with you and comments he’s posted before about the subject are very convincing and detailed.

[little jeremiah]

Dodge, read Ronin’s comment right below yours.

[fabian]

Yeah, Maher is a very lost soul...

[Ronin]

IIRC, and remember this was two years ago, the lawyer’s point was that because Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenship, he would have had to renounce American citizenship to qualify for Indonesian citizenship before he could be issued an Indonesian passport. Ergo, if he traveled anywhere under an Indonesian passport, he’s an Indonesian, unless he was later naturalized as an American.

I’m not a lawyer, but the guy I am talking about does handle immigration issues for foreigners in Japan, or did, he’s not a close friend so I have no idea what he is doing now.

[little jeremiah]

Thanks, Ronin.

[Smokin' Joe]

Unfortunately for the Kenyan birth advocates,

It really does not matter that he may have been born in Hawaii, although not having been born there would make the issue a no-brainer.

The question arises of whether his father and his mother's alleged husband were the same person, and if so, whether his dual citizenship, conferred by his father's non-immigrant, non-(US) citizen status denies him Natural Born Citizenship (as in Vattel), as opposed to the choice to be a US citizen at 18.

Being merely a citizen is not enough, being naturalized is not enough, if he even has that.

The questions which have been raised about his Selective Service Registration (the alleged documents being generated on a form which did not come into existence until long after he was supposed to have registered) cause question of whether any attempts to conform to the ordinary behaviours of one posessing US citizenship may have been an afterthought.

[phockthis]

good,

but did you get a reply or reaction of any sorts????

[Jim Noble]

The headline says: Obama not even a US Citizen

The article says: And possibly not even a citizen of the United States! Obama may in fact be an illegal alien…

[Hotlanta Mike]

AND BECAUSE BARACK JUNIOR WROTE A POEM ABOUT FMD AND CALLED IT “POP”, IT SEEMS LOGICAL TO ME TO SPECULATE THAT FMD WADS OBAMA’S FATHER.

---

Race Bannon (a FReeper):

“Look, I met him in 1980 in Hawaii, 3 months after coming back from Mombassa, and the guy I met told me he was born in Mombassa, raised in Indonesia, was living in Hawaii with people who were not his parents, and called the older black gentleman who was working at the time, POPS.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2664555/posts?page=39

Check out posts 49 & 52!

[Hotlanta Mike]

Are you located in any of these states?

Alabama
Georgia
Hawaii
Maryland
Missouri
South Carolina
Texas
Virginia

Maybe you would consider filing a citizens complain of election fraud.

[AFret.]

If he has a US passport..which he does..he is a US citizen.

Not a Natural Born Citizen...unless his father was a citizen of the US...a distinct possibility.

Earlier threads indicated that if Hillary had the goods on him during the primaries..she would have played that card. I dsagree...whoever plays the “ineligible card” loses the black vote..and the election..this is not rocket surgery.

[edge919]

3. Unfortunately for the Kenyan birth advocates, it also records his birthplace as Honolulu; again, from a time and place when recording anything except the truth was unlikely.

In my view, this document destroys the Kenya birth story, but does raise legitimate questions about what steps Obama took to regain his citizenship, when did he take those steps, and what things might he have done to take advantage of his Indonesian citizenship before it became a handicap.

I disagree about how this affects the possibility of Kenyan birth. Obama's mama wasn't particularly honest. In her divorce records she already made it look she and Barak Sr. lived together as man and wife for two years when in reality she was in Washington state while he was in Hawaii. The Hawaiian birth story may have been one of her lies that she perpetuated after marrying Lolo. Certainly he wouldn't have had direct knowledge of where Barry was really born, so if he filled out the school form, then he wouldn't have known any better about listing a different place of birth than what he was told by Stanley Ann.

[edge919]

Under US law, if someone is born a citizen by virtue of the US citizenship of their parent(s), *nothing* a citizen parent can do can changes that status, for example the child will remain a citizen even if the parents renounce their own citizenship, and they cannot renounce a child’s citizenship.

This concept seems to be a 20th century invention. We know this because Justice Gray mused in the Wong Kim Ark decision that, "neither he nor his parents acting for him ever renounced his allegiance to the United States, or did or committed any act or thing to exclude him [p653] therefrom ..." It makes no sense for a Supreme Court judge to say this if "nothing" under the law could be done by the parents to change the status of their child's citizenship. Also, under the law at the time Obama would have become an Indonesian citizen, nothing prevented him from renouncing his own citizenship as a child.

Aside from this however, the real issue here is if Obama ever acted as an Indonesian citizen as an adult and if the knowledge that he did so and tried to cover it up would affect how people voted for president. Would he still get votes from people if they knew he was an Indonesian citizen and lied about it??

[Mr Rogers]

In terms of citizenship, and losing it as a child, I think the pertinent decision is Perkins v Elg:

http://supreme.justia.com/us/307/325/case.html

“Miss Elg was born in Brooklyn, New York, on October 2, 1907. Her parents, who were natives of Sweden, emigrated to the United States sometime prior to 1906, and her father was naturalized here in that year. In 1911, her mother took her to Sweden, where she continued to reside until September 7, 1929. Her father went to Sweden in 1922, and has not since returned to the United States. In November, 1934, he made a statement before an American consul in Sweden that he had voluntarily expatriated himself for the reason that he did not desire to retain the status of an American citizen and wished to preserve his allegiance to Sweden.

In 1928, shortly before Miss Elg became twenty-one years of age, she inquired an American consul in Sweden about returning to the United States and was informed that, if she returned after attaining majority, she should seek an American passport. In 1929, within eight months after attaining majority, she obtained an American passport which was issued on the instructions of the Secretary of State. She then returned to the United States, was admitted as a citizen and has resided in this country ever since.

In April, 1935, Miss Elg was notified by the Department of Labor that she was an alien illegally in the United States, and was threatened with deportation. Proceedings to effect her deportation have been postponed from time to time. In July, 1936, she applied for an American passport, but it was refused by the Secretary of State upon the sole ground that he was without authority to issue it because she was not a citizen of the United States.”

“...Fifth. The cross-petition of Miss Elg, upon which certiorari was granted in No. 455, is addressed to the part of the decree below which dismissed the bill of complaint as against the Secretary of State. The dismissal was upon the ground that the court would not undertake by mandamus to compel the issuance of a passport or control by means of a declaratory judgment the discretion of the Secretary of State. But the Secretary of State, according to the allegation of the bill of complaint, had refused to issue a passport to Miss Elg “solely on the ground that she had lost her native born American citizenship.” The court below, properly recognizing the existence of an actual controversy with the defendants (Aetna Life Ins. Co. v. Haworth, 300 U. S. 227), declared Miss Elg “to be a natural born citizen of the United States,” and we think that the decree should include the Secretary of State as well as the other defendants. The decree in that sense would in no way interfere with the exercise of the Secretary’s discretion with respect to the issue of a passport, but would simply preclude the denial of a passport on the sole ground that Miss Elg had lost her American citizenship.”

[CodeToad]

This article and various versions of it have been posted at least 100 times already. Bottom line: No nation can issue a citizenship to anyone and have that take away a US citizenship. We as a nation couldn’t care less who issues a citizenship; it will never negate a US citizenship. How fair would that be? “Mr. Smith, sorry we have to deport you now, but it seems Nigeria issued you a citizenship and so we have to take yours away.”

[Kleon]

I was scanning through this document thinking, ‘wow, a lot of this crap has long been debunked,’ then I saw the publication date.

[edge919]

In terms of citizenship, and losing it as a child, I think the pertinent decision is Perkins v Elg:

Yes, I already said it was a 20th century invention, which when the Perkins v. Elg case was heard. Of course, the particulars in this case are not the same as adopting a child into a country that does not recognize dual citizenship.