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Why Do You Believe Consumer Reports?
Technical NightOwl ^ | April 6th, 2011 | Gene Steinberg

Posted on 04/06/2011 2:41:32 PM PDT by Swordmaker

Just this week, Consumer Reports posted an online review covering the iPad 2, and a small number of also-rans in the tablet PC world. This report was meant as an upgrade to an article that appeared in the May 2011 newsstand issue, which was prepared before the iPad 2 was available to evaluate.

The conclusion was predictable. The iPad 2 gets an “excellent” rating in nearly every category. Curiously, the original iPad was placed in a tie with the Motorola Xoom, though heaven knows why. Well, at least CR didn’t find any bogus antenna issue with which to downgrade Apple’s iconic gadget, but they aren’t entitled to much more credit than that, simply because they still haven’t a clue how to properly review products of this sort.

They have, for example, an ephemeral “ease of use” category, but they don’t really explain the criteria for such ratings. If they were really paying attention, it would seem highly questionable for the Xoom to rate very highly because, if you consider what you can do with this gadget, it barely rates a xero — make that a zero.

You see, you can rate CPU and graphics performance, and whether the interface is snappy or not. You can certainly judge the features, such as onboard cameras, or, in the case of the original iPad, the lack thereof. You might also look at accessory ports, such as an SD card slot, or an HDMI port, neither of which Apple incorporates, even though they offer convenient and relatively low-cost adapters for both.

But none of this matters if there are no apps to run. Apple has over 65,000 specifically designed to run on an iPad. In contrast, the Motorola Xoom, which uses Android 3.0, or Honeycomb, has a few dozen.

As a result, the argument is over. Your usability options on a Xoom, or any other Android-based tablet, are extremely limited, unless you want to stick with regular smartphone apps, which look horrible when blown up to the full size of the display.

Other Android tablets, using older versions of the OS, are in worse shape. Those products are dead ends, because they weren’t designed with tablets in mind, and new apps will never be compatible. That’s their fault for not paying attention to Google. This, along with the growing and irritating fragmentation issue, are the reasons that Google is asserting greater control over the ways licensees can fiddle with the interface and bundled software. Indeed, they are also holding off on releasing the source code, with no definite date as to when it might be available.

Unfortunately, CR doesn’t grok any of this. They seem utterly unable to judge these products on the basis of real usability, which means having enough apps to actually afford a choice of what to do beyond email, Internet access, and access to your favorite social network. Indeed, one of the reasons that the Mac was denigrated early on was the myth that very few applications were available for that platform. In that case, it wasn’t true for the most part, except for certain vertical applications for business consumers that were only available on Windows.

When it comes to an Android 3.0 tablet, the situation is dreadful, utterly dreadful. Worse, app developers aren’t going to have much of an incentive to build apps for the Xoom and its ilk, simply because the iPad has swamped the marketplace. Developers who want to make money know which platform is best.

Understand that CR’s editors are entitled to their opinions, and they even entitled to publish highly flawed reviews that fail to address the needs of the end user. Rather, I’m concerned why the media, tech, mainstream and elsewhere, largely accepts CR’s word as gospel. The vast, vast majority of articles about their reviews are not critical. They never consider whether or not the magazine is using poorly conceived testing methods.

I can see where manufacturers might avoid public criticism, simply because it will sound like sour grapes. Indeed, when it comes to auto testing, CR has it right when handling tests revealed certain vehicles nearly tipping over or swerving out of control in extreme handling tests. While CR was once sued by an auto maker over this issue, more recently Toyota promptly responded to a reported handling flaw by rejiggering the onboard software so the electronic stability control would kick in faster. But you wonder why they never noticed during the product design phase.

When it comes to consumer electronics gear, Apple didn’t suffer in any noticeable way because the two flavors of the iPhone 4 weren’t recommended, based on that alleged “Death Grip.” Certainly, if there was an ounce of evidence that sales might be hurt, I’m quite sure Apple would have gotten ahold of CR in order to set them straight. Certainly what CR reports flies in the face of Apple’s tests, once posted online, and still mirrored all over the globe, not to mention blogs populated with antenna experts, and all those people who posted YouTube videos demonstrating that antenna sensitivity issues can be duplicated on many smartphones. I’m most troubled, however, that CR doesn’t seem to know about warning labels, and those cautions in user manuals about the unsavory impact of holding a mobile handset the wrong way.

Or maybe their test team doesn’t believe in reading manuals. While I realize consumers don’t either, a magazine that prides itself on thorough and balanced product testing ought to know better.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/06/2011 2:41:34 PM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~; 1234; 50mm; Abundy; Action-America; acoulterfan; AFreeBird; Airwinger; Aliska; ...
Technical NightOwl reviews Consumer Reports review of the iPad2 review—PING!

Please, No Flame Wars!
Discuss technical issues, software, and hardware.
Don't attack people!
Don't respond to the Anti-Apple Thread Trolls!
PLEASE IGNORE THEM!!!


Apple v. Consumer Reports Reviews Ping!

If you want on or off the Mac Ping List, Freepmail me.

2 posted on 04/06/2011 2:53:32 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker
“When it comes to consumer electronics gear, Apple didn’t suffer in any noticeable way because the two flavors of the iPhone 4 weren’t recommended, based on that alleged “Death Grip.””

That's funny.

My wife works at a University where just about every student assistant has an iPhone. And they have ALL bitched about this little gap on the edge of the phone that if you happen to put your fingers across the call gets dropped.

I don't have an iPhone so I'm not sure what they are talking about, but talk about it they do. Wonder how Consumer Reports got them all to lie like that?

3 posted on 04/06/2011 2:56:45 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Swordmaker

CR has been questioned for years.

Their devotion to certain brands created suspicions.

Their unwillingness to divulge their raw data, weighting, etc is another flag being raised.

CR will not tell you what a “defect” is. In fact, they leave it up to their subscribers. Therefore, a blown fuse in a car could be considered a defect by one reviewer and ignored by another.

Sample sizes have been questioned and CR always stonewalls on that issue as well.

Anyone who relies on CR is only fooling themselves.


4 posted on 04/06/2011 2:56:55 PM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: Swordmaker
I'll read this later, but for now I can say Consumer Reports is garbage when it comes to auto reviews. There ratings are always different from all the other car reviews? Why? They will always list the top 10 in every category as Japanese. Always. They hate American cars are are extremely biased. This is known in the industry. Don't take my word for it. They are shills for the Japanese. Not even Mercedes can crack their top 10. Their methodology is insane.

NEVER take CR seriously when buying a car!


Motor Trend, C&D, R&T, Edmond's, and many others are good for autos.
5 posted on 04/06/2011 2:57:51 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: truthguy

CR is another left-wing rag. Has been for as long as I can remember.


6 posted on 04/06/2011 3:02:15 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: Swordmaker

I find CR helpful because they give detailed info on features for products when I’m first beginning a search for a new big ticket item. I just bought a new landline phone. Yeah, I checked CR first in order to figure out what features different ones had instead of trying to get info from the kids who work at Best Buy etc. That made it easier to start whittling down the choices.


7 posted on 04/06/2011 3:17:08 PM PDT by brytlea (A tick stole my tagline....)
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To: I cannot think of a name

There are much better places to get consumer electronics info such as CNET.

Well, because of their ratings of SUVs I have been stuck with a dog SUV and instead of driving it into the ground, my usual model, I am selling it fast.


8 posted on 04/06/2011 3:26:29 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Totalitarian Fascism is here, Now.)
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To: Swordmaker

Yet another person who has clearly never used a Xoom before. The “lack of apps” battlecry is particularly amusing, considering I own one and haven’t found an app I need and can’t get. Macunists sound a lot like democrats - repeat a lie over and over until people believe it.


9 posted on 04/06/2011 3:27:38 PM PDT by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: I cannot think of a name
My wife works at a University where just about every student assistant has an iPhone. And they have ALL bitched about this little gap on the edge of the phone that if you happen to put your fingers across the call gets dropped.

Read the article... and the reports of people who WORK with cell phone radios and antennas who could not duplicate the so called problem. I have an iPhone4 and could not duplicate the problem using PROPER test equipment in proper testing labs, unlike the junk that CU used. They found that the iPhone4 starts out with a better ability to receive signals and finishes with a better ability to receive signals than other phones even after attenuation... The drop is a percentage of the starting signal... and that was something the clueless testers at Consumers Reports had no awareness of.

I have over 25 friends with an iPhone4... and none of us could duplicate the problem, and we tried, hard, and only one had a problem with dropped calls greater than she had with her iPhone 3Gs... and she lives in the boonies where the AT&T signal is pretty spotty. All of us have BETTER reception with our iPhone4s than we had with our previous phones. The facts are different than what was being reported... which was a load of FUD being orchestrated by Google to promote sales of the Android phones.

It is very strange that the REST OF THE WORLD MARKETS could not duplicate the antennagate issues when the unchanged iPhone4 was released there. Once those facts came out, the FUD essentially stopped! In fact, the antennagate issue dropped out of site and Apple discontinued its free bumper program the started to counter the bad publicity that was being pushed so heavily in the press. In the rest of the world, they did NOT SEE THE DROPPED CALL issue at all. So where was the antenna problem??? IT SIMPLY DID NOT EXIST!

The issue was solely limited to AT&T and it's poor quality network in certain markets... mostly in cities where NIMBYS had prevented the buildout of new cell towers... particularly New York, San Francisco Bay Area, Chicago, and other metro areas, where the heavy data usage of the iPhone 3G network demand overwhelmed the system's ability to carry the sheer numbers of people wanting to use to system.

The specialists in cell phone testing all tweaked Consumers Reports, pointing out that they did not know what they were doing in their "tests" and also pointed out that they did not even use proper test equipment... using the iPhone's own five bar signal strength meter as their "sophisticated" test equipment to show how strong the signal it was receiving was. The did not test real world calls at all... just squirted signals at it... Nor did they test ANY OTHER of the cell phones in their samples for signal attenuation, just the iPhone. Why? Was their an agenda?

10 posted on 04/06/2011 3:32:33 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Chickensoup

Can I ask which dog suv you are referring to?


11 posted on 04/06/2011 3:43:33 PM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: Signalman

totally agree
CR is composed of Northeast liberals.


12 posted on 04/06/2011 3:45:36 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Swordmaker

My personal experience is that when I take the time to do the research and buy something that they have rated highly (clothes washer/dryer and space heaters most recently), I have been very pleased with the products’ performance. I can’t really say that they are “the best” because I have nothing to compare them to, but I haven’t bought something they rated highly and determined it to be a bad choice.

Just my 2¢.


13 posted on 04/06/2011 4:03:22 PM PDT by Stegall Tx (Joined the Obama economy on 19 March, 2010. Found part-time work on 12 Feb, 2011.)
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To: I cannot think of a name
Wonder how Consumer Reports got them all to lie like that?

They didn’t.

What you are ignorant of is that all cell phones with internal antennas have spots where, if touched, reception will go down because the fleshy sack of salt water that is the human body is interfering with the signal. This is common on all cell phones since they shifted to the internal antenna design, and is not exclusive to the iPhone 4.

Congrats, you’re a victim of marketing FUD.
14 posted on 04/06/2011 4:03:28 PM PDT by Terpfen (Buh-bye, Suntan Charlie.)
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To: Echo4C
Yet another person who has clearly never used a Xoom before. The “lack of apps” battlecry is particularly amusing, considering I own one and haven’t found an app I need and can’t get. Macunists sound a lot like democrats - repeat a lie over and over until people believe it.

These are not stats being "lied about" by Mac proponents. Are those apps TABLET optimized or are they merely Android phone apps size doubled to improperly fit on your Xoom screen? Surveys done on multiple non-Apple oriented sites that have found fewer than 70 apps for Android tablets. Tell us what kind of Apps you are using?

One Month Later, Android Tablet Platform Has 50 Apps

By Mike Isaac March 30, 2011 | 7:12 pm | Categories: Tablets and E-Readers

Motorola’s Xoom tablet is the first promising alternative to Apple’s iPad, but the sickly condition of Android’s tablet app ecosystem may end up stalling the platform’s progress.

One month after its launch, the Xoom currently has about 50 native apps available for Android 3.0 Honeycomb, Google’s version of Android optimized for tablets.

That’s pitiful compared with the iPad, which was released last year with approximately 1,000 native apps on launch day. The Xoom debuted with a paltry 15 Honeycomb-native apps available for download in its catalog.

50 apps is a pretty small number, and the actual total may be even smaller. The official Android online market, as well as other online message forums for Android enthusiasts, place the number of Xoom apps somewhere close to 50. But this number hardly seems accurate, as it includes existing Android applications which have been re-sized to take advantage of the tablet’s larger screen. The number of apps with interfaces made specifically for the tablet is probably diminutive.

Still, it’s unclear why more developers haven’t taken the short cut and re-sized their apps for Honeycomb. It could be that developers aren’t sold on the idea of re-sizing their apps to fit more screen real estate, as opposed to “building a true tablet experience that takes advantage of the new platform’s possibilities,” iOS developer Justin Williams told Wired.com in an interview.

And even if developers wanted to create such a “true tablet experience,” they’re hard-pressed to do it without the source code for Honeycomb, which Google is currently keeping a tight reign over. The big device manufacturers working on Honeycomb-powered hardware — like HTC, Motorola and Samsung — all have early access to the code, but only after licensing agreements were made with Google. Smaller developers don’t have this luxury.

“Apple was wise to have the tools out there months in advance of launch,” Williams said, “as compared to Google who made them available only a short time before.”

To be fair, the Xoom is currently the only Android tablet on the market running Android 3.0. Once the glut of Honeycomb-running hardware devices arrives — like the June release of LePad from Chinese electronics manufacturer Lenovo, which was delayed specifically to ensure the tablet will run Honeycomb — we could reasonably expect to see more tablet-optimized applications available. Samsung’s redesigned Galaxy Tab 10.1 will also run Honeycomb, and will also launch this summer.

“Google needs more hardware,” says Williams, “and they need to get developers excited about building tablet experiences, not just larger screened phone apps.”


Hmmmm, 50, to over 70,000 for the iPad. Not much of a comparison, is it?

However, another NON-Apple source, Mobility Feedsa site specializing in analyzing mobile devices and mobile trends, found that Android 3.0 Honeycomb had only 14 native applications in those 50.


Almost no tablet-specific apps developed for Android Honeycomb

Second Gear’s developer Justin Williams, following a new check, has revealed the little progress made by Google's Android 3.0, codenamed Honeycomb, application catalog in the month since its launch.

Only fourteen applications are truly native.

A total of fifty include both native applications and phone applications meaning resizing for a larger screen.

The report includes Google’s applications and might miss certain titles, but there is no simple way to separate tablet optimized applications and tablet-only ones by applying a filter on Android Market.

Among the fully native titles, there are a few ports of their Apple iPad versions, like Pulse, CNN or USA Today.

The situation reflects an ongoing problem with application support on Android 3.0 and confirms a hastened launch schedule.

Google released the beta SDK only a month before the Motorola Xoom was shipped, while the final version was released only two days before the date of the launch.

Excepting certain developers with special access rights, most have only had less than two months to start and make ready their first applications for the Android tablet.

The lack of devices itself has reduced the accessibility to the hardware.

A second wave would not ship until the LG Optimus Pad arrives in Japan these days, while the decision of Samsung to rework its Galaxy Tab 10.1 following the iPad 2’s release would push it to not earlier than June.

Apple was more careful with its tablet plan and allowed developers to have two months lead time.

The App Store started with 1,000 iPad-native applications and has about 65,000 s of the first-year anniversary of the design.

A more flexible development has been the key factor for inroads into enterprise and catering to niches such as music production.


Then there's this. Electronista is reporting that Deutsche Bank, using Google's own Android usage statistics released at the end of March, has concluded that the Xoom Tablet has sold only 100,000 units in the five weeks it has been on the market since being released February 24th.


Analyst rough estimate has just 100,000 Xooms shipped so far

by Electronista staff
Updated 11:35 am EDT, Wed April 6, 2011
Deutsche Bank guesses just 100,000 Xooms shipped

Analysts at Deutsche Bank have put a potential number on talk of possibly slow Xoom sales in a new research note. Extrapolating from data in Google's Platform Versions chart, it estimated that about 100,000 of Motorola's tablet had shipped between the February 24 debut and the end of March. The prediction also likely included a small number of hacked installs on other devices.

Motorola has never publicly discussed its Xoom shipment figures and might not quantify them until its next quarterly results, if at all.

The figure is likely to be off of the actual count without more concrete data at hand. It might still reflect a relatively tepid adoption and is supported in the abstract by Google's Android figures, which put 3.0 at just 0.2 percent and well under the 2.5 percent using a Nexus S or Nexus One with Android 2.3.

Low Xoom adoption has been blamed partly on the limited launch. The February 24 release was limited to just the 3G edition for Verizon, putting the minimum asking price at $800. Wi-Fi versions only began showing in late March, and international releases are only just beginning with launches for Canada this week and other countries soon. Apple shipped the iPad 2 to about 25 countries two weeks after the US and starts at $500 for a Wi-Fi version and $630 for 3G.


15 posted on 04/06/2011 4:09:29 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker

the issue is the screen size.

these are not tablets they are toys. They need true useful screen sizes of 10 inches or more to be of consequence.


16 posted on 04/06/2011 4:13:55 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Echo4C
The source for that first article was accidentally not posted before the article... so here it is...
Wired's Gadget Lab, hardly an Apple centric site went looking for Android tablet optimized apps for your Xoom... here is their March 30th report:


17 posted on 04/06/2011 4:14:12 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker
Why Do You Believe Consumer Reports?

I don't!

18 posted on 04/06/2011 4:16:07 PM PDT by SMM48
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To: Swordmaker

Give Consumer Reports credit for reporting the Chevy Volt is a joke.


19 posted on 04/06/2011 4:18:47 PM PDT by The Great RJ (The Bill of Rights: Another bill members of Congress haven't read.)
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks for all the FUD, but the point is that “tablet-optimized” is itself a loaded term. As Android developers have been dealing with varied screen sizes in their apps for years, the vast majority of apps originally written for phones scale perfectly well to the Xoom’s screen size. Hence why I say these people have clearly never used one before. Just because apps originally written for tiny iPhone screens (remember, the iPad came out before the iPhone 4, which introduced better resolution) looked like crap on the much larger iPad screen doesn’t mean Android apps do.

Take for instance SlingPlayer. It’s not “tablet-optimized”, but it looks great on the Xoom. Why? Because the people who wrote it were smart enough to code their program to adjust for resolution. They’re not the only ones - every single program I use on my phone (Droid X) also works on my Xoom, with no noticeable drop in quality.


20 posted on 04/06/2011 4:31:32 PM PDT by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: truthguy

Trouble is, very few car review sources take reliability into account other than Consumer Reports.

CR has recommended buy ratings for Mercedes M- SUV and C-, E-, and S- sedans, as well as Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu, and other “American” models.

CR does not differ radically from other publications in their ratings if reliability history is taken into account. Truth is, GM and Chrysler do indeed make a higher percentage of mediocre and poor vehicles than other manufacturers; that’s why the government bailed them out.


21 posted on 04/06/2011 4:31:39 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: longtermmemmory
these are not tablets they are toys. They need true useful screen sizes of 10 inches or more to be of consequence.

What are you referring to? The iPad has a 9.7" screen and the Xoom has a 10.1 inch Wide angle screen... both are quite usable for their purpose as tablets. The 7 inch screen "tablet" are what I would consider too small to be useable at just 45% the area of the iPad. The Xoom is just 2.9 square inches larger than the iPad.... it's a bit longer than the iPad screen by about an inch while the iPad is wider than the Xoom's screen by about 3/10 inch.

Reviewers say the Xoom is designed to be used in most conveniently in landscape mode while the iPad can be used either way.

22 posted on 04/06/2011 4:35:12 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Echo4C
Thanks for all the FUD, but the point is that “tablet-optimized” is itself a loaded term.

Then all those articles from respected NON-Apple sources are slinging FUD? I don't think so. Your Xoom is therefore just a big Android phone? No, those apps are NOT tablet optimized apps.

Then using your criteria for counting apps, then the iPad has 350,000 apps plus the 70,000 apps that are iPad optimized. You Xoom is simply not in the same league.

No, you can't have it both ways. Either the apps are optimized for the tablet or they are not. Just because it CAN run them... it doesn't mean they run well... and most of the reviewers say the phone apps DON'T run well or fit on the wide screen format properly, often operational screen buttons spill into areas where they are simply unreachable! On the iPad, because the form factor was maintained, they do fit and work. Many times these reviewers are ANDROID fans... and they are not happy with the state of app availability.

23 posted on 04/06/2011 4:45:25 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker

I remember back in the early 80’s CR declared the new Coleco Adam as the “Computer of the Decade”, maybe even the century.

Yeah, right!


24 posted on 04/06/2011 4:52:53 PM PDT by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
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To: UB355

Nissen Xterra


25 posted on 04/06/2011 5:15:44 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Totalitarian Fascism is here, Now.)
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To: Swordmaker

ahh then I sit corrected. the only non-ipad tablet I have seen in the wild has been of the 7 inch varieties.

still I wish the windows tablets, like the asus, were much less expensive.


26 posted on 04/06/2011 5:21:05 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Swordmaker
> Why Do You Believe Consumer Reports?

What? Someone believes Consumer Reports? NFW dude!!

Not for a review of anything more high-tech than a wooden toothpick.

27 posted on 04/06/2011 5:56:21 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: I cannot think of a name; Swordmaker
> And they have ALL bitched about this little gap on the edge of the phone that if you happen to put your fingers across the call gets dropped. I don't have an iPhone so I'm not sure what they are talking about, but talk about it they do. Wonder how Consumer Reports got them all to lie like that?

Let me propose an analogy.

When I was a kid I had a transistor radio, about the size of a pack of cigarettes. Like every radio, it has a speaker. The sound comes out of the speaker. If the speaker is covered, it sounds weak and horrible. But if you hold it right, the speaker is open to the air, and it sounds good.

Depending on how you held it, your fingers or palm could either a) cover the speaker, or b) not cover the speaker.

Nobody back then made a Big Freakin' Deal out of the fact that if you held it in such a way as to cover the speaker, it sounded like drek.

Instead, they said, "Well, don't hold it that way, duh!!"

I fail to understand how people don't see that the iPhone4 antenna issue, which revolves around a well-known characteristic of antennas, is any different.

The antenna issue was real, but so was the "speaker issue". As a kid, it was obvious to me how to avoid it.

How did people get so much stupider in 40 years?

28 posted on 04/06/2011 6:08:40 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: Swordmaker

Constantly repeating the number of apps that are “tablet optimized” is an attempt to make it sound like apps that are not “tablet optimized” won’t work and thus the Xoom only has a few apps that work on it. This is the definition of FUD because it’s a completely false attempt to steer people away from Android with propaganda.

Tablets, including the precious iPad, ARE little more than big phones. Why do you think so many non-computer making phone manufacturers are jumping in? Because they already manufacter most of the parts.

As I said, Android coders have already made most apps scalable to different screen sizes perfectly, because they’ve been dealing with different resolutions for years. Thus every single app I use on my phone looks perfect on my Xoom too. Should I believe your reviewers or my own lying eyes?

If you have any integrity at all, you’ll stop posting FUD like this.


29 posted on 04/06/2011 6:26:39 PM PDT by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: Echo4C; Swordmaker
If you have any integrity at all, you’ll stop posting FUD like this.

If you have any integrity at all, you’ll stop posting FUD like this.

Having been on the receiving end of many, many Mac Pinglist posts, with much, much relevant information, I'd think you need to apologize to SM. Just because you like your few apps on your android device does not mean they are a viable competitor to the Apple devices. There tens of thousands of iApple apps. There are a few dozens of apps for your toy. 'Nuff said!

Try listening before you open your pie hole, troll!


30 posted on 04/06/2011 6:38:50 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("When Sarah Palin speaks, people listen!" - EF Hutton)
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To: Echo4C
As I said, Android coders have already made most apps scalable to different screen sizes perfectly, because they’ve been dealing with different resolutions for years. Thus every single app I use on my phone looks perfect on my Xoom too. Should I believe your reviewers or my own lying eyes?

I think I will trust the ANDROID APP REVIEWERS who know what they are talking about, in judging usability for these apps, over a random guy who tells me that a scan doubled blocky 3x4 graphic design screen of a small phone app has somehow been stretched to fit a 16x9 screen with four times oversized pixels "looks good" and claims that is somehow the equivalent of being "Tablet optimized," when those apps were not ever designed for tablet sized or HD Rez screens. Android is NOT resolution independent and never was! Each App has to be customized internally for each device and each screen size it will be displayed on. Thats what the fragmentation problem of Android is all about. That's just BS, Echo, that your phone apps count! As I pointed out, we are NOT counting screen doubled iPhone apps among those 70,000 optimized iPad apps.

Why is it that YOUR Android reviewers, who have every reason in the world to push Android and the Xoom by claiming the same thing you are, yet they are the ones who are saying Are they being paid to promote Apple iPads? these negatives? Why are they saying things that you claim are FUD? The answer is that it isn't FUD when it's true.

31 posted on 04/06/2011 10:20:31 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker; WVKayaker

If it’s so true I assume that means you’ve tested it yourself on your Android phone and Xoom tablet, right? Since you’re so sure it’s true and all? Oh, that’s right, you don’t own either, but are perfectly willing to be spoonfed nonsense by the media just like any other lemming.

To say that each program has to be customized for each device shows your lack of knowledge of how Android programming works. Come back to me when you’ve written a program in your life besides “Hello World”. In fact, with vector-based programming there is literally no drop in quality between a phone and tablet. And since the Xoom’s aspect ratio is fairly standard, there isn’t any odd stretching.

Seriously, stick to posting about Apple devices unless you’re going to take the time to actually use an Android device, rather than just believing what you read. Conservatives are supposed to be better than believing media nonsense.

And Kayaker, the only troll here is SM. Have I said any bad things about the iPhone or iPad? No, because they’re literally irrelevant to this discussion. SM posts troll threads attacking devices he’s never used or coded for before, and I’m the troll for defending them with actual experience?


32 posted on 04/07/2011 3:44:06 AM PDT by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: Echo4C

“considering I own one and haven’t found an app I need and can’t get.”

That is called “anecdotal evidence”. Perhaps you should consider that others need more functionality than you do. Which of the following apps are available on Android?

The Daily
Rush Limbaugh
MLB.com At Bat 11
The Weather Channel
The Onion Tablet
Netflix
USA Today
Hulu +
Ebay
Tiger Woods PGA Tour ‘11
Pandora Radio

What productivity software is there? Any equivalent to Pages, Numbers, Keynote etc? What about something like Garage Band? How many really good games are available?

The fact is that the iPad has a phenomenal and rapidly growing software ecosystem...Android, not so much, and Android’s hardware/software fragmentation issues are a problem for developers.


33 posted on 04/07/2011 3:58:18 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty
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To: PreciousLiberty

Some of the apps you’ve listed are nothing for than portals for websites. I mean, The Weather Channel? Seriously? I actually have a very nice weather widget on my home screen - something that’s impossible on iOS. And yes, we’ve had Pandora (including a nice widget) for quite some time. The Netflix and Hulu apps are currently being developed, according to reports, but both are currently accessible using PlayOn thanks to another feature iOS doesn’t support - Flash.

As for productivity, there are several apps that allow for editing documents, like DocsToGo, or you can do it directly using the Google Docs site. You can also print using PrinterShare. You’ll have to forgive me if I have no use for Garageband, but I don’t think I’m the target demo for that anyway.

As for games, name for me some “really good” iOS games. You also might want to take a look at the upcoming PlayStation Suite, as well as the fact that there are numerous console emulators you can get on Android - something else impossible on iOS unless you jailbreak.

If you really think the Android ecosystem isn’t rapidly growing, I don’t know what to say to such ignorance. Have you looked at the Android market in the last month?


34 posted on 04/07/2011 4:48:19 AM PDT by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: Echo4C
"Some of the apps you’ve listed are nothing for than portals for websites. I mean, The Weather Channel? Seriously?"

"Websites" aren't optimized for either the input methods of the tablets, or the screen form factor. Apps give the best experience, and provide a way for the publisher to customize and extend their content in a way you just can't with a website. So yes, seriously. ;-)

As to the rest of it, widgets might be a nice feature. Flash is a fading technology which I can personally (anecdotally;) do without very nicely. BTW, I hear repeated stories of the mobile Flash player being lackluster...and it is an acknowledged resource hog.

"As for productivity, there are several apps that allow for editing documents, like DocsToGo, or you can do it directly using the Google Docs site."

DocsToGo sounds pretty good, but IMO it doesn't compare to full featured apps with guaranteed compatibility with the desktop equivalents. As to Google Docs, I don't know about you but I'd prefer not to trust Google (or any other third party) with sensitive personal or business information. And again, you're faced with a "web experience" not a "tablet experience".

"You can also print using PrinterShare."

PrinterShare is a more limited and less convenient alternative to AirPrint.

"You’ll have to forgive me if I have no use for Garageband, but I don’t think I’m the target demo for that anyway."

Apparently you're not the target demographic for anything not available on Android. :-)

"As for games, name for me some “really good” iOS games."

5-star:
Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP
Forget-Me-Not
Angry Birds Rio
Tiny Wings
Battleheart

4.5-star:
Fight Night Champion by EA Sports™
Hot Springs Story
Speedball 2 Evolution
NBA JAM by EA SPORTS™
Pocket HalfPipe

How many of those (top rated according to toucharcade.com) titles are on Android? You'll note two EA Sports titles there, how many EA Sports games have made it to the Android store?

"You also might want to take a look at the upcoming PlayStation Suite, as well as the fact that there are numerous console emulators you can get on Android - something else impossible on iOS unless you jailbreak."

I'm glad you brought that up. Atari just released "Atari's Greatest Hits" for iOS (iPhone and iPad). To quote the review:

Early this morning Atari released perhaps the most significant single retro gaming application yet to appear in the App Store. Atari's Greatest Hits [link] is a free Universal application for the iPhone and iPad that comes bundled with their first game ever, the 1972 classic Pong. And, while the games-for-free situation ends there, the fun certainly doesn't — not by a long shot.
This app gives you access to a total of 100 classic Atari arcade hits - in some cases the full arcade machine versions, not a home version. You can buy all the games for a total of $15.

I'll leave you with one more paragraph from the review:

The stars of this collection are the arcade titles, certainly. And there are some amazing games in here — Tempest, Major Havoc, Asteroids, Centipede, Missile Command, and Battlezone, among others. Many of these titles were originally vectorscope games, where the screen draws the images laser light show style, as opposed to in terms of scanlines and pixels. These games translate amazingly well to the iPhone 4's Retina display which renders them at over 300 dpi, with antialiasing to boot. But, then, the iPad's larger physical display is quite a boon for these titles, as well.
I sort of wish I hadn't participated in this thread, 'cause it just cost me $15... lol
35 posted on 04/07/2011 6:21:41 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty
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To: truthguy

Who but CR could rate a car’s overall reliability as “average” when all but a few areas are above or much above average, and those few problem areas are minor ones (such as audio system)?

Who but CR could rate a car’s overall reliability as “much above average” when there are serious mechanical problem areas (such as fuel system)?

I’ve seen both.


36 posted on 04/07/2011 6:30:35 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (TOTUS knows how to give a speech. Obama knows how to read.)
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To: Swordmaker
Take all CR tech reviews with a big grain of salt. For example:

They have, for example, an ephemeral “ease of use” category

This can be tested by numbers, time it takes to complete tasks, time it takes new users unfamiliar with the system to do things without having to be guided. Video them while they're doing it, looking for negative or positive facial expressions.

37 posted on 04/07/2011 6:46:42 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: I cannot think of a name
My wife works at a University where just about every student assistant has an iPhone. And they have ALL bitched about this little gap on the edge of the phone that if you happen to put your fingers across the call gets dropped.

I don't have an iPhone so I'm not sure what they are talking about, but talk about it they do. Wonder how Consumer Reports got them all to lie like that?

No one's lying. They're just describing a subjective experience in ways that are influenced by everything they've read about the "grip of death." Furthermore, I'd wager that your wife's retelling is also a subjective report influenced by what "everybody knows."

None of these TAs has a case on their iPhones, which eliminates the issue?

38 posted on 04/07/2011 7:11:48 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: Echo4C
Some of the apps you’ve listed are nothing for than portals for websites. I mean, The Weather Channel? Seriously?

Seriously. With TWC (and Weather Bug, and some other weather apps), you can tap a button to zoom in on your current location, which is great when you're on the road. You can pinch-zoom in on the radar map to see your neighborhood, or zoom out to see a wider area and swipe to the west to see where the weather is coming from (and for how long you might expect it to continue).

There certainly are apps that are just a front end for the Web site, but you chose a poor example. TWC is, in fact, a great example of how thoroughly an app can make the same basic content more accessible and useful; when I'm sitting at my computer, if I want a quick check of the weather, I pick up my phone.

The Netflix and Hulu apps are currently being developed, according to reports, but both are currently accessible using PlayOn thanks to another feature iOS doesn’t support - Flash.

PlayOn has bugger-all to do with Flash on the mobile device. And it's available for iPhone.

39 posted on 04/07/2011 7:28:32 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: ReignOfError; Swordmaker; Terpfen; dayglored
When my wife got home last night I showed her these comments and asked a few questions.

1. This has been going on for at least two years, so it must be a mixture of old and new iPhones. To be honest, neither of us could tell an old iPhone from a new iPhone.

2. All of the service would have been on AT&T, which is really crappy in San Antonio (which is also a hoot because they were headquartered here for many years).

3. One of her SAs from India got so mad when her iPhone cut off that she flung it hard enough against the library wall as to break it into several pieces.

4. My wife's boss has had an iPhone since the beginning and bitches about how you have to hold it, “just so” constantly. He also thought the episode in item 3 was funny, and outlined the mark on the wall with tape and put a sign underneath of it that said, “If you intend to smash your iPhone against the wall, please aim here as we don't want to have to repaint the entire library.” Everyone thought it was funny but eventually the Dean of the Library said to take it down.

5. As far as the all cel phones do this argument - the answer is no they don't. I have a Mil-Spec Samsung phone on Verizon. It does not do smart things (but neither do I). I have used it in moving cars, private aircraft, elevators, metal buildings, and held it in every conceivable manner with my gorilla sized hands - and never had a call dropped.

40 posted on 04/07/2011 7:37:47 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Echo4C
both are currently accessible using PlayOn thanks to another feature iOS doesn’t support - Flash.

I'd love to see how long you can watch a movie that way.

41 posted on 04/07/2011 3:05:47 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: I cannot think of a name
As far as the all cel phones do this argument - the answer is no they don’t.

Sigh. Yes, they do. Stop spreading bullsh!t. You look like an idiot.
42 posted on 04/07/2011 6:19:04 PM PDT by Terpfen (Buh-bye, Suntan Charlie.)
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To: truthguy

“Not even Mercedes can crack their top 10.”

And they usually rate BMW highly.

My personal experience tracked CR exactly for Mercedes, with an extremely unreliable ML20.


43 posted on 04/07/2011 6:29:30 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: I cannot think of a name
1. This has been going on for at least two years, so it must be a mixture of old and new iPhones. To be honest, neither of us could tell an old iPhone from a new iPhone.

The old iPhones don't have a "little gap on the edge of the phone" that will cause calls to drop. The antenna is inside the phone, behind the plastic back. If this has been going on for longer than two years, it is some other issue that I have never seen reported by anyone else.

2. All of the service would have been on AT&T, which is really crappy in San Antonio

My best guess is that there were a lot of dropped calls because the coverage sucked, and the mythical little gap became a folkloric explanation. Data is not the plural of anecdote.

As far as the all cel phones do this argument - the answer is no they don't.

All cell phones exhibit signal attenuation if you cover the antenna. If the phone is brick-like, you're less likely to see it because your hand simply can't get close to the antenna. On any phone, including the iPhone, the signal attenuation is only noticeable, only results in dropped calls or slow data transfers, if the signal was already marginal.

44 posted on 04/07/2011 7:00:03 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: jjotto
Trouble is, very few car review sources take reliability into account other than Consumer Reports.

Yeah, they have something called "predicted reliability". What a FN joke. US cars have been every bit as reliable as imports over the past 10 years or so. Before that maybe not so much. My Dodge Dakota 2001 has 140K miles with no problems. Great reliability.

CRs methodology is crap, plain and simple. There ratings are so different in every category than Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, and a bunch of others. Explain to me how and why CR is so different. How can the Japanese have just about every place in the top 10 in every category? Impossible. CR is a shill for them. That's why. Plus CR simply doesn't factor safety into their ratings. US cars are the best for safety except for the very expensive European cars, but they get no credit for this from CR.

Everyone in the auto industry knows about how horrible CR is. They should stick to Refrigerators, Toasters, and the like. But they probably suck at that as well.
45 posted on 04/07/2011 7:12:10 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: jjotto
I could post 50 articles like this about CR if I wanted, but here's a good one.

Don't trust CR
46 posted on 04/07/2011 7:34:27 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: jjotto
I could post 50 articles like this about CR if I wanted, but here's a good one.

Don't trust CR
47 posted on 04/07/2011 7:36:51 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: truthguy

Not just CR, but almost all car reviewers purposely obscure real safety data, comparing cars to other similar cars instead of to real-life situations.

If CR seems to shill for the Japanese, it sure seems like Motor Trend shills for General Motors. CR lately seems to favor Fords! Probably it reflects the biases of individuals hired rather than editorially.

CR does indeed admit that most cars are very reliable compared to 20 years ago and notes that buyers know this too.

My wish is that Car&Driver, a mag that I trust, would include reliability info in their reviews. The vaunted BWM 7-Series, for example, is a work of art, but the few folks I know who own them are furious at the frequency and expense of unexpected problems. Prospective buyers would want to know that.


48 posted on 04/08/2011 1:14:59 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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