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Attn: FReepers! Please Donít Blame Orlando For The Casey Anthony Verdict. It Wasnít Our Jury!
MB26

Posted on 07/05/2011 5:49:45 PM PDT by MindBender26

Please do not blame Orlando for the Casey Anthony verdict. Had locals been given a choice, she would convicted overwhelmingly! But we did not get to supply the jurors. They were from Pinellas County, 100 miles and 100 years west of Central Florida. Pinellas County is mostly low class retirees in St. Petersburg, knuckle-dragging cretins in Pinellas Park and the denizens of Scientology World Headquarters in Clearwater. The average IQ in Highpoint and Safety Harbor is less than the air temperature on ays when we wory about the citrus crop freezing.

I grew up there, escaped, and recognize there are a few intelligent people there such as Pinellas County FReepers, (but not former governor Charlie Crist from St. Pete. BTW, Crist, the Gay Blade, has now joined the biggest ambulance chasing firm in the State, and his show “wife” hasn’t been seen with him in years.)

So please, when you think about the all-but-convicted murderess going free here, don’t blame us. BTW, I know Judge Perry well, and he is a VERY good guy. Don’t blame him or us for the jury’s idiocy.


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To: Smokin' Joe
A frenzied mob is seldom a just instrument, and though its actions may seem right at the time, the individuals who participated often lived a lifetime of regret.

That is the reason Capitol Cases should not be tried on TV. The most serious of offenses and most serious of trials we have in this nation have been turned into a Freak Show Circus. Courts have become media focused and not truth and justice focused.

101 posted on 07/05/2011 8:11:00 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: bvw
Do you want Orlando held culpable for what would have been a BAD verdict otherwise? The actual Jury did a great job. They ignored the MOB. I am sick of mobs and mob-frenzy “justice”!

Ditto. A wise individual you are.

102 posted on 07/05/2011 8:12:01 PM PDT by RobertClark (On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.)
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To: RobertClark

“Your unwillingness to declare community with a jury that delivered a verdict based entirely on the facts presented...”

Maybe because we’re not so gullible as to believe that the jury was as rational as you claim they are?


103 posted on 07/05/2011 8:15:02 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: Jonty30

“But, the jury’s verdict needs to be respected, opinion not withstanding.”

Just as we respect the lawfully elected and constitutionally authorized President of the United States.


104 posted on 07/05/2011 8:17:41 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: Smokin' Joe; bvw
The actual Jury did a great job. They ignored the MOB.

I understood the jury was sequestered to prevent them from knowing what was happening outside of the courtroom.

Doesn't that make the mob influence rather moot?

105 posted on 07/05/2011 8:18:16 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: Retired Greyhound

You should have seen FR back in the Elian Gonzalez days. Then there was Terri Schiavo. It happens from time to time. People get all emotionally wrapped up in things that in reality are not their business. I imagine people just don’t have enough to do. As for me, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


106 posted on 07/05/2011 8:18:16 PM PDT by Huck
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To: ari-freedom

When you get one, you should.


107 posted on 07/05/2011 8:21:29 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30

“When you get one, you should.”

Not if they are wrong.


108 posted on 07/05/2011 8:29:41 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: ari-freedom
Maybe because we’re not so gullible as to believe that the jury was as rational as you claim they are?

With your, obviously, vast understanding of the exhibits offered during the trial and the structure of the prosecution's case, pray tell what factual evidence did they omit from their deliberation? The forensics were weak, the theory presented of the crime was weak. No clear connection was established that offered any definitive culpability supporting the charges. The DA rushed to trial with a weak case.

The prosecution relied on attacking the character of the defendant. Is she a model citizen? Why heck no, but personal opinion of the defendant should not weigh in a jury's deliberation. Let's take it from the other direction: should a personal attack against an accuser in a rape trial alleging promiscuity and seductive behavior weigh in favor of the defendant as justification?

The lack of objectivity in most people is becoming palpable.

109 posted on 07/05/2011 8:30:57 PM PDT by RobertClark (On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.)
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To: Huck
You should have seen FR back in the Elian Gonzalez days. Then there was Terri Schiavo. It happens from time to time. People get all emotionally wrapped up in things that in reality are not their business. I imagine people just don’t have enough to do. As for me, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Murdering a defenseless quadriplegic who can't communicate by starvation and dehydration is EVERYONE business. It's murder Damnit!!!! I don't give a tinker D what PC name you wish too call it. It makes it everyones business when you realize you or your family may be next because some lawyer and judge says so. A society lacking morality is one doomed to fall.

That is one evil of the day no one best ever try such on mine and I say it as a caregiver to a quad. There was miles of difference between that case and taking someone brain dead off life support meaning heart lung machine. Some evils of the day need to be stood up too.

110 posted on 07/05/2011 8:31:49 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Revolting cat!
Since the perp (former) is innocent then why not hire her as a babysitter.

I believe there was adequate evidence presented to indicate this person was indeed irresponsible. That does not pass my hiring requirements for a babysitter.

That does not make her guilty of first degree murder, either.

The State, in the eyes of the jury, lacked sufficient evidence to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Period. The jury has spoken.

Charles Manson, Nuremburg, and OJ Simpson are irrelevant to this case.

OJ's acquittal was done in the face of far tighter physical evidence, and the fact that the prosecutor failed to make the point that leather shrinks when it has been wet, even with blood.

There just might have been some jury nullification going on there, too, absolving OJ because of other factors, partly the villification of Mark Fuhrman, who proved his worth as a detective solving the Martha Moxley case, again, with sufficient evidence to eliminate all reasonable possibilities otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt.

Keep in mind that that "reasonable doubt" consistsof the ability to present an alternative and credible scenario. Accidental death is not murder in the first degree, and that reasonable doubt was well set in the mind of the jury. Inappropriate actions afterwards might point to the very real possibility of prior foul play, but in the absence of proving that such foul play not only occurred, but was unaccountable except by the actions of the accused, the State failed to make its case.

The presumption of innocence applies.

However, I have been known not to hire babysitters based on a 'vibe', if you will, and need not adhere to the 'reasonable doubt standard' when hiring someone to watch over my kids, which is rare with the profusion of relatives around.

111 posted on 07/05/2011 8:36:52 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: RobertClark

There was chloroform in the car. The trunk smelled like human composition. Don’t tell me you believe she was drowned in a pool.


112 posted on 07/05/2011 8:44:10 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: ari-freedom

Human decomposition. I really wish I can edit these posts...


113 posted on 07/05/2011 8:47:57 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: ari-freedom

The chloroform can be explained as a way for Casey to knock out Calee, so Casey can party, without it being murder.

The human composition can be attributed to Calee decomposing, as a result of Casey over dosing Calee and accidentally killing her without it being deliberate.

Yes, she should have been founf guilty of something for these two, but it doesn’t necessarily add up to the deliberate killing of another human being.


114 posted on 07/05/2011 9:16:50 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: ari-freedom
There was chloroform in the car. The trunk smelled like human composition. Don’t tell me you believe she was drowned in a pool.

Chloroform is a trihalomethane and can result from a multitude of solvents and refrigerants, primarily. A positive indication of the compound is far from conclusive as to the source, in the absence of substantial evidence linking an individual to the compound exclusively.

The trunk smelling like human composition was an observation made by an individual with no background in medicine, forensics, or microbiology. No trace evidence of human remains were located in the trunk, which would absolutely be present if a body made it to the state of decomposition. This woman would not have had the ability nor intelligence to conceal trace evidence on an irregular surface such as an auto trunk.

I believe that we have yet to be presented with what actually occurred to this little girl. With that being the case, how could I objectively vote to convict in a capital case? The demeanor and lack of morality of the defendant is not evidence.

115 posted on 07/05/2011 9:23:10 PM PDT by RobertClark (On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.)
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To: higgmeister
If they never got a glimpse of the crowds, if they never saw a protest style sign, even, if a full courtroom and national TV coverage did not indicate they were on a high-profile case, I don't know what would have.

But you do make a point.

They did their job, and if unaware of the mob, then that simply made ignoring the mob easier. How often, not just in this but in political and sporting venues, we see people caught up in the frenzy of the moment--and the decisions they make, the support they render, based on feelings--'swept up in the crowd', may well be greatly flawed.

Sure there were shills, but I think that is what got duhwon elected.

Thank God justice isn't meted by a shout-down voice vote.

116 posted on 07/05/2011 9:32:50 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: bvw
Some crowds behave well.

True, but most all of them will stampede...

117 posted on 07/05/2011 9:35:23 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Jonty30
Circumstantial evidence is evidence in which an inference is required to connect it to a conclusion of fact. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly—i.e., without need for any additional evidence or the intervening inference.

On its own, it is the nature of circumstantial evidence for more than one explanation to still be possible. Inference from one piece of circumstantial evidence may not guarantee accuracy. Circumstantial evidence usually accumulates into a collection, so that the pieces then become corroborating evidence. Together, they may more strongly support one particular inference over another. An explanation involving circumstantial evidence becomes more valid as proof of a fact when the alternative explanations have been ruled out.

However, in logic, validity bespeaks nothing concerning the actual truth value of the premises. For a conclusion to be valid, it can not be false given the particular premise from which the inferance demands such conclusion necessarily follows and given the premise the conclusion can NOT be false. However, a conclusion can only be sound if the conclusion is valid and the premises are indeed actually true.

Shall the death penalty, or murder conviction be delivered on valid conclusions, or is the bar necessarily high that conclusions must indeed be sound? That is the nature of reasonable doubt.

Circumstantial evidence allows a trier of fact to deduce a fact exists. In criminal law, the inference is made by the trier of facts in order to support the truth of assertion (of guilt or absence of guilt). The fact to be assumed may be so undeniably true so as to be true without actually having to prove the truth value.

When a judge takes judicial notice of a fact in a criminal case, e.g., that the defendant could not have boarded a train in New York and exited in Texas without somehow crossing state lines - he will tell the jury they "may" accept that fact as proven without further evidence. But he may not tell them that they are required to do so, or take the factual question away from them, no matter how obvious the fact might seem (cf. Advisory Committee Notes to Fed. R. Evid. 201(g)). Even where the defendant and his attorney enter into a formal stipulation admitting an element of the offense, the jury should be told merely that they may regard the matter to be "proved," if they wish, but the judge still cannot direct a verdict on that factual issue or take it away from the jury over the defendant's objection (United States v. Muse, 83 F.3d 672, 679-80; 4th Cir. 1996).

Finally, the jury's power is considered sacrosanct by our abiding "judicial distaste" for special verdicts or interrogatories to the jury in criminal cases (United States v. Oliver North, 910 F.2d 843, 910-11; D.C. Cir. 1990). Unlike in civil cases, where such devices are routinely employed, in criminal cases it has frequently been held to be error to ask a jury to return anything but a general verdict of guilty or not guilty (United States v. McCracken, 488 F.2d 406, 418-419; 5th Cir. 1974 - collecting cases). This rule is designed to safeguard the jury's power "to arrive at a general verdict without having to support it by reasons or by a report of its deliberations," and to protect its historic power to nullify or temper rules of law based on the jurors' sense of justice as conscience of the community (Id.; United States v. Spock, 416 F.2d 165, 181-82; 1st Cir. 1969). The jury is given "a general veto power, and this power should not be attenuated by requiring the jury to answer in writing a detailed list of questions or explain its reasons." (United States v. Wilson, 629 F.2d 439, 443; 6th Cir. 1980). Although the issue is far from settled, a powerful argument can be made that this rule "is of constitutional dimensions," and a direct corollary of the Sixth Amendment's protection of the jury's power to nullify (Wayne LaFave v Jerold Israel, Criminal Procedure § 24.7(a); 2d ed. 1992).

118 posted on 07/05/2011 10:31:38 PM PDT by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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Comment #119 Removed by Moderator

To: bvw

>>Thank G-d she DID skip out of Jury duty and I repeat: HOORAY FOR THE ACTUAL JURY! <<

You are one sick puppy.


120 posted on 07/05/2011 11:14:38 PM PDT by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears (Dear Lord, Please judge Barack Hussein Obama for betraying Israel, and not the whole nation. Amen.)
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To: MindBender26

Appears to me, and others who believe that Prosecutors have to PROVE the defendants are guilty, that those Pinella Co. jurors gave the correct verdict on every charge.

The Defense, in closing statements, ripped apart every fantasy that had been put forth by the Prosecutors, who NEVER presented any direct evidence that linked Casey to her daughter’s death.

Our judicial system worked this time. It’s not supposed to be driven by emotions and media bias, but on factual data.


121 posted on 07/06/2011 3:03:44 AM PDT by octex
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To: I still care

Good points regarding the types of people who often comprise juries,

About 20 years ago I had to appear before a Federal Grand Jury regarding a “witch hunt” investigation of my long time employer (a major defense contractor). I was questioned for almost two hours by the Fed Prosecutor and three of his assistants. ....The jury was made up of around thirty or so people and well over half of them were reading books, dozing in their chairs or talking to each other, instead of listening to the questions and answers.

That is why any Prosecutor can get an indictment. There is no Defense side in a Grand Jury, so the slugs only hear the Prosecutor’s side of a situation.

This particulor Grand Jury was set for SIX months. The people obviously didn’t have meaningful employment or responsibilities at home. They were making money every day just for showing up at the court house, plus per diem for meals and being paid for round-trip mileage.


122 posted on 07/06/2011 3:23:05 AM PDT by octex
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To: Jonty30

Your posting about Casey “knocking out” Caylee to facilitate her partying is in the same lame category of what the Prosecutors tried to do.

There was no evidence presented to tie Casey to her daughter’s death.

The news media and many in the public “deemed” Casey guilty because of her behavior; NOT because of any evidence.


123 posted on 07/06/2011 3:38:56 AM PDT by octex
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To: octex

She would be the strongest possible suspect. There is nobody else who would be motivated to kill her. Nobody else is going to put little tine heart stickers on the ducttape that surrounded the facial area.

As I said, I don’t believe it was Casey’s intent to kill the child, merely have her out of the way so she could party.


124 posted on 07/06/2011 3:47:47 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Godebert; bvw

Hey Godebert! Is this an alias you use instead of the name Geraldo Rivera?

I recall Geraldo calling Michelle Malkin a whore and saying he would spit on her if he passed her on the street. He did that on the O’Reilly show a couple of years ago and O’Reilly never took up for Malkin, but sucked up to the racist Geraldo.

I do have to say, though, that on the Casey Anthony case Geraldo DID report accurately that the Prosecutors never presented evidence that tied her to her daughter’s death.


125 posted on 07/06/2011 3:51:51 AM PDT by octex
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To: MindBender26

Prosecution sucked. You have to make the argument and not insult the jury. Zero out of two is not a passing score.


126 posted on 07/06/2011 4:08:47 AM PDT by jimfree (In 2012 Sarah Palin will have more quality executive experience than Barack Obama.)
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To: octex

Besides there was a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to Casey and almost all murder convictions are on circumstantial evidence.

If need proof to get a murder conviction, then very few convictions could be obtained, because few murderers take videos of their actions and efforts are made to ensure there are no eyewitnesses.


127 posted on 07/06/2011 4:15:23 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Sarah Barracuda
Actually the moral to this story is if you get a jury summons GO TO JURY DUTY!! Why, because they interviewed a woman outside the courthouse who got a jury summons to most likely appear for this jury but did not go..she wiggled her way out of it..she said she would have convicted Casey had she been on that jury..so bottom line is, if people want to see justice served, don’t rely on idiots who end up on juries, go on the jury yourself and make a difference.

Extremely good point!

128 posted on 07/06/2011 5:06:31 AM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: octex
The news media and many in the public “deemed” Casey guilty because of her behavior; NOT because of any evidence.

WHY didn't Casy Anthony report her baby missing?

129 posted on 07/06/2011 5:10:02 AM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: bvw

“I am sick of mobs and mob-frenzy “justice”!”

I agree with you!


130 posted on 07/06/2011 5:22:55 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: I still care
However I DO know some intelligent people in Palm Harbor.

So do I. I certainly would not blame the folks in Pinellas County! I also know that this particular jury took quite a while to “pick”.

131 posted on 07/06/2011 5:23:20 AM PDT by seekthetruth (Florida and the Nation needs Colonel Mike McCalister in the US Senate!)
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To: Sarah Barracuda

“Some people keep on talking about “Mob rules” PLEASE, no mob was after Casey Anthony..no one had pitch forks asking for her hanging, people had opinions on this case, yes, but no one is outside yelling in the streets for her execution.”

You must have watched a different news program than the one I saw with people screaming, “murderer” and “kill her”. Her lawyer said they had received numerous death threats. This was on ABC Nightline.


132 posted on 07/06/2011 5:37:08 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: antisocial

Sounds like the family and the lawyer need to lay low, maybe even get 24-7 police protection for a few weeks.

The media-frenzied mob’s lust for vengeance will pass in a few days, the overall memories of the experience of the trial will last for years.


133 posted on 07/06/2011 7:52:45 AM PDT by bvw
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To: RobertClark
The DA rushed to trial with a weak case.

Say what? Recall that the state of Florida has been working to solve this case for three years and the DA works for the state. Short of a witness to the death of Caylee, plenty of convincing evidence was traced to Casey's car and the home where she and Caylee lived.

Can you honestly say that prosecutors vilified Casey by stating that she lied to her family and friends as to where Caylee was during that month?

No way! The jury had the right to know that she partied and got herself a tattoo while her little girl was missing. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence HAD to become highly suspicious at some point. Loving, caring parents would never react that way.

The smell of human decomposition and chloroform in the trunk, duct tape, Caylee's Winnie the Pooh blanket where she was found, etc. do not attack Casey's character; they are evidence.

Caylee did not commit suicide...that's for sure. Somebody is responsible for that baby's death and no evidence points to Cindy, George or Lee, or to a made-up Zenaida Gonzales.

No. The prosecution did NOT rely on attacking the defendant's character. Casey contributed that to the case all by herself with no apologies.

134 posted on 07/06/2011 11:51:25 PM PDT by IIntense
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