Skip to comments.Majorcan Descendants of Spanish Jews Who Converted Are Recognized as Jews
Posted on 07/10/2011 7:04:06 PM PDT by Palter
Centuries after the Spanish Inquisition led to the forced conversion of Jews to Catholicism, an ultra-orthodox rabbinical court in Israel has issued a religious ruling that recognizes descendants from the insular island of Majorca as Jews.
The opinion focused narrowly on the Majorcan community of about 20,000 people known as chuetas and did not apply to descendants of Sephardic Jewish converts in mainland Spain or the broader diaspora of thousands of others who scattered to the Ottoman Empire and the Spanish colonies in South and North America.
The island, isolated until a tourist boom that began in the late 1960s, is a sociological preserve for descendants of Jews who formed an insular community of Catholic converts that intermarried through the centuries because of religious persecution and discrimination that barred them from holding certain positions in the Roman Catholic Church through the 20th century. Most carry the names of 15 families with ancestors who were tried and executed during the 17th century for practicing Judaism.
The religious court in Israel, led for more than 40 years by Rabbi Nissim Karelitz, sent another rabbi to the island in May to explore its warren of streets where a synagogue once stood and to examine the family trees of some of the chuetas who trace lineage back 500 years.
In a two-paragraph opinion typical of the private rabbinical court that deals with matters of conversions, marriage conflicts and financial disputes Rabbi Karelitz issued a statement that said because of the intermarriage patterns of the chuetas, all those who are related to the former generations are Jews.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
In the course of time that became the ONLY part of the Umayyad to survive various conquests, wars, plagues, and sufferings. That was the end of the first period. It sure wasn't a sweet deal for Christians outside the small Christian states in the North
Finally, the Umayyad state broke down into a series of small principalities ~ which were open to conquest by small Christian states (e.g. Leon, Castile, Carvajal).
That's when things improved. Even intermarriage happened.
At some point a North African Moslem kingdom invaded to punish the local Spanish Moslems for having fallen away.
That was period three.
Finally there was the fourth period where the small Christian states became LARGE Christian states who attracted thousands of the younger sons of French knights. The entire leadership class in Spain became intertwined with that of France and England and first thing you know Isabella and Ferdinand had taken over the peninsula.
We all know most of the history after that.
I've noticed a tendency for Moslems to focus on the first period ~ which really was a bit more liberal than Christians imagine, but Christians focus on the fourth period which had less warfare than Moslems imagine. There are long stretches in between where Spanish society built laws, architecture, and a Jewish intellectual and engineering class. That's usually not much appreciated.
BTW, all those Jewish trade names with "Smid" or "Schmid" in them? That's from the Spanish period ~ "Scmei de" is from Ladino ~ the latinate language Jews used in Spain. There are an awful lot of Jewish trade names ~
Some analysts argue that Jews in Spain constituted the world's first industrial class ~ and certainly served as the major mercantile class North of the Mediterranean for centuries.
The Christians and Moslems busied themselves with gentlemanly pursuits ~ farming, herding, making war.
Not a cultural relativist at all. The primary point was just that there is a lot of distorted history. If you haven’t read the Morera article, you might find it interesting.
The secondary point was that every group has been victimized at some time or other and has also victimized others. That doesn’t mean that all groups are equivalent. Mohammedans, for example, have victimized far more than they have been victims (I’m excluding the ways in which Mohammedans have victimized themselves.). Armenians, to take a relatively uncontroversial example, have generally been far more victimized than victimizers.
“Leave or convert, and then test for real conversion with torture. Yeah, it was bad.”
That isn’t what happened.
You seem to be the one under the influence here. I am dealing with facts. You’re dealing with fanatasies. That’s why you don’t even have recourse to any sources for your baseless assertions.
“You see the problem here? Its not simply a matter of the caricature of Christians persecuting Jews. There were complicated dynamics at play, with Kings often at odds with the Pope in these matters, and Pope often sticking up for the rights of those who were being persecuted by mobs or the Crown or whoever.”
“complicated dynamics at play”, ......Oh please........
“Its not simply a matter of the caricature of Christians persecuting Jews.”
........No? Then who did these sadistic acts? Hindus? Buddhists?.......Little green men in flying saucers, the Martians?????
The only problem to be seen is that of rationalization for people who were religious and political leaders, who, supposably knew the difference between right and wrong, and acted with incredibly appalling vicious hatred and sadism.
And please, no more of the “They were just following orders”......enough already......
It may make you and your fellow Anti-Semitic revisionists better....... But here’s the real question, and the only one that really matters in all of this:
“How to you think G-D actually feels about it?”
I thought you weren't playing the victim card. Since you use the PC term "CE", what have you renamed the weekdays as? They were named after Norse gods, dontcha know. And let's not even get started on the months.
Don’t even bother with it. It is beyond them. The man is clearly an Anti-Semitic Revisionist. He will skew and misrepresent facts until the cows come home. People like that get off on doing it. It is just another way of getting at the Jew.
Interestingly, but not surprisingly, you will find a number of writings specifically warning us of Revisionism, and other things that these people will do at this particular time.
You’ll find it written in the prophecies of our Holy Niviim, the Tehillem, Midrashim, and the Zohar. It is amazing to see the so prophecies accurately taking place, and like clockwork......
You already know what happens to their Neshamas for doing such things to us......Just say “Baruch HaShem” that you are not one of them.
They will find out soon enough.
“and then you can close your eyes to the hate and violence... until it comes your way.”
It is called “Midda Kinnegid Midda”.......and it will hit them soon enough.
Read the actual documents and communications, including those of the church. They are available for research. It is exactly what happened.
As I said, unless you can read these, you have nothing but more garbage to offer.
Since “Jesus” wasn’t born in the year 1, and since the ignorant monk that started the whole Anno Domino thing, was cluelessto that fact - it is not PC to use “CE.” ask Vlad “the historian” how many archaeological journals use “AD.”
And which "Holocaust" would that be? The whole language of holocaust denial is biased. I have had many conversations on this subject both in Israel and outside Israel and there is never an acknowledgment by Jews of any holocaust other than Hitler's atrocities committed against the Jews.
As bad as that was, and there is no argument that it wasn't horrendous, it wasn't an isolated incident nor even the worst example in the 20th century. There is never a mention of an equal number of Catholics, Gypsies, Ukrainians, Poles, Russians, and disabled killed. Stalin killed more that three times as many as perished at Hitler's hand and Mao killed more than six times as many.
So when you say holocaust, which one are you referring to and are you denying all of the others?
“Read the actual documents and communications, including those of the church. They are available for research. It is exactly what happened.”
I have read many of them and they prove you wrong.
“As I said, unless you can read these, you have nothing but more garbage to offer.”
I can read many of them. I have no reason to believe you can read any of them. Again, as i said in post 99 “You, of course, present no evidence for your claims and you directly contradict BN - the very book you laid claim to.”
So, you apparently can’t read any of the sources, and you can’t apparently comprehend the book which you tout either.
“The folks who came up with the Gregorian calendar did.”
False. Romance language countries did not use Norse or Germanic names for the days of the week.
“CE- “Common Era” is the term Jews use to reference the Gregorian. It does not have a “PC” -politically correct meaning for us. Jews do not believe in Jesus as a deity.”
You use the CE/BCE usage for EXACTLY the same reason the PC crowd does.
If you can make that statement, then I know one of 2 things:
You are a liar, or, you have a serious comprehension problem.
Well, it's been about 20 generations since the Expulsion. So I'd guess that nearly every Spaniard has some Jewish blood. Franco conveyed as much to the Nazis when the Nazis asked that he institute the Nuremberg laws.
But some of the studies linking Jews to present-day Spaniards are just bad science. One study, for instance, focused on Y-chromosomes and assumed that every Spaniard with certain Y-chromosomes are descended from Jews. But, in actuality, those particular chromosomes aren't particularly Jewish, and could just as easily be traced to other Middle Eastern groups who formed part of the ancestrial Spanish population, such as the Phoenicians/Carthaginians.
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