Skip to comments.The no-kids-allowed movement is spreading
Posted on 07/27/2011 12:00:44 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows
What's the matter with kids today and why doesn't anyone want them around? In June, Malaysia Airlines banned babies from many of their first class cabins, prompting other major airlines to consider similar policies.
Earlier this month, McDain's, a Pittsburgh area restaurant that banned kids under 6 became a mascot for the no-kids-zone movement.
According to a Pittsburgh local news poll, more than half of area residents were in favor of the ban. And now big business is paying attention.
"Brat bans could well be the next frontier in destination and leisure-product marketing," writes Robert Klara in an article on the child-free trend in AdWeek.
Klara points to Leavethembehind.com, a travel website for kid-free vacations, with a massive list of yoga retreats, luxury resorts and bargain hotels around the world that ban children.
(Excerpt) Read more at shine.yahoo.com ...
If we want to go to a beach resort, my wife and I go to either Sandals' or Couples' resorts, which do not allow children. Another we frequent is the Hilton in Key Largo, which has an adult only pool. I not only want peace and quiet but don't want to worry about what is in the pool water.
I live in a odd area of the world because I rarely see a out-of-control kids. There was a little tike running around last Saturday between the tables at the ice cream shop. He made a half a round before dad caught him up and said in a low but firm voice, "ok, that's enough bud. We don't do that here."
Kid went and sat down and ate his ice cream.
Those kinds of kids I have no problem with.
I think if I ran into some of the horror stories other people do I would have a different opinion.
Immigrants and the poor don't share the selfish "me first" perspective of the privileged and growing "child-free" culture.
That's not good news for anybody, but that's the direction we're headed.
Thank you, Dr. Spock, and the Montessori Method! Both of them helped set child-rearing back to neanderthal days. Kids are not “Buddies”, nor are parents “Friends”, and the lawyers who push those attributes for their clients are the enemy!
>>If old farts want my kids social security contribution they should stop whining about the mere presence of children<<
I think you’re being a bit dramatic.
I have NO problem with child-free establishments and I’ve raised four kids.
No one is going to be whining about the mere presence of your children unless your children don’t know how to behave and you do nothing about it.
I’d rather take my kids where they are going to learn HOW to behave. Dennys or Big Boy are perfect for little kids. You want to go to a fine restaurant when you have toddlers? Get a sitter. Same with movie theaters unless the movie is rated G.
Kids aren't born this way; they are made this way by the parents.
>The problem is not the children but the parents who allow them to run wild and infringe on the rights of others.
I don’t have kids (couldn’t, long story) but have no problem with well behaved kids around and even don’t mind when a kid has a temporary fit as long as the parents try to firmly address it. They’re kids and human and won’t always be perfect, I know that.
But there are WAY too many spoiled brats out there whose parents think the sun rises and sets out of their backsides. They are obnoxious and the parents get all huffy and act just as badly if you ask them to try to control their child.
I don't think it's laziness. I think it's more that parents want to be their kids friends.
My Dad is one of my best friends.......I am 49 and it wasn't until I was well into my 30's that it became so.
“My name is Jeffrey and I’m 4 years old”
>>Wanna bet that little girl is one of those thugs and by the time she is 7 she will have started hitting her biological giver?<<
My husband was a good one for giving in to our oldest daughter when she was a tot. I told him that if you tell her no and then let her do what she wants, it’s a problem at 2. But at 16 she’ll be taking the car keys and crashing your ride. At that point you have no one to blame but yourself.
Little kids, little problems. Big kids, big problems.
And btw, I took over the discipline so now they are well behaved and considerate.
It's not about being old and childless. It's about out of control snot gobblers running their parents, and the parents being terrified of trying to correct the worthless little $hits, because some Lib will have the cops with a tazer and DHS Social Workers there in 30 seconds flat. These are the same people who tear apart school playgrounds because little Monstro might scrape her knee on the swing.
This is just another result of the poison of Liberalism.
I could take my three to the 95th in Chicago, and no one knew they were in the room. But they also said, "please," "thank you," and "may I be excused?"
Nowadays most of my socializing is among the Viet Emigré community and with them there is not a social event that does not include the whole family. The kids are well behaved and events are in places with space for the little ones to run and tussle. When it is time for dinner all are in their places and suitably well behaved.If we go to a restaurant there is no play but the kids manage to be appropriate.
My own are grown and gone and I do not resent the presence of other folks' children.
It is no problem for me that establishments make rules that exclude children, or any other groups or individuals. That is the free market which we have been truncating pretty severely for a long time now. Those places are not my personal favorites, though.
My husband and I brought our kids on many plane trips, to restaurants, theaters, etc...during their younger days (they are teenagers now).
Exposing them is the only way to teach them. But we had a very strict policy that if they began to act up we would immediately leave. We never had to but they knew we would.
My longest marathon trip was a solo AMC journey from Norfolk to the Middle East with multiple stops along the way—approximately 32 total hours traveling with layovers during which we had to get off the plane so they could fuel and resupply.
Our only nightmarish trip was one in which my 1 y/o son was ill with an ear infection and I was pregnant and suffering from morning/air sickness and actually using the barf bag and as many extras as I could find. Luckily we were at the very rear of the plane and my son’s crying (and my retching) was drowned out by engine noise. My husband won the “husband/father of the year” crown on that trip, for sure!
That said, I completely understand and respect “child free zones”, particularly as I’ve witnessed far too many “my children can do no wrong” indulgent/blind parents who don’t even pay attention to their hellion. Heck I’ve dealt with that type enough at school events and playgroups!!
It’s funny you say that. I live in NYC and eat in restaurants and rarely see kids. Maybe during the tourist or Christmas season but almost never the rest of the year. Maybe we go to completely different types of restaurants?
“This is a logical conclusion for an increasingly hyperindivualistic culture devoted exclusively to pleasure and petty power.”
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!
People of today are so selfish and self-centered that half of them are intolerant of others and so a disturbance in a restaurant is considered a debacle instead of just a nuisance. And the other half are so selfish and self-centered that they can’t be bothered to discipline their children!
>>Immigrants and the poor don’t share the selfish “me first” perspective of the privileged and growing “child-free” culture. <<
Come on over to my area. We have immigrants of every color and creed. You know who the worst of them are? Eastern Europeans and Islamic Arabs. Their boys are golden and allowed to do what they want. Including trash places.
I’m Polish and you should see these women with their dumplings. It’s crazy. And the way the female teachers are treated by the Islamics is nuts. The Chaldean Arab boys are taught that they are no better than anyone else because of the Christianity in their homes but the Muslim boys are just nasty to women and have no respect for non-Arab property.
when I was a kid (60’s and 70’s) the only places we ever went with our parents was a pizza place or a burger joint. If my parents went out, which was a rarity, they got a neighbor to watch us.
Now, going out to eat is not as special and rare and it’s the exception when we go out to see no kids around us and we go to nice restaurants as well as family style.
Given that my kids tend to have their episodes at the most inopportune times, I can totally understand a restaurant testing a “no child” business model and seeing if it works for them. Like the no-smoking restaurants before there was a mandated no smoking policy, we would seek out places that were no-smoking and my parents would seek out places that allowed smoking.
Let the market decide if this works.
I am old. When I was a child, we were never taken out to eat, except for a drive-in. I think I was 11 or so and my brother was 7 before we were taken to a restaurant. I also remember my parents referring to prime rib as *roast beef* so we wouldn’t ask to order it, too.
Shopping meant we had our hands held by a parent at all times. They picked out our clothing. We were along for sizing, only. Any shenanigans and we were unceremoniously told our next stop was back to the car if we didn’t settle down.
In March, we did our yearly dinner at a top restaurant in our area. We went early to avoid some pending weather. Across from us were 4 adults with an absolutely beautiful 2 or 3-year-old. The kid sat on the floor, playing with an iPad, ran around the set up empty tables, handled the silverware and was, all in all, a brat. Everyone at her table simply smiled at her. Next time, we eat at an adult hour.
I don’t mind well-behaved children in restaurants either.
I don’t think it is so much that people don’t like the idea of children in restaurants as it is that people don’t like bad disruptive behavior in restaurants on the part of children whose parents think their brats can do no wrong.
I have been in restaurants where children have been allowed to behave like little animals running wild and trashing the table and their immediate surroundings so that it took one waitress a half-hour just to clean up the mess.
Yours is the only post I agree with the most on this thread. The only thing I would add is that the owner still keeps all private property rights and should be able to ban whom he wants. But, definitely, the adult population has become increasingly hedonistic. More adults want to play and more have more play time.
I don’t believe for a second that kids or parents have gotten worse than some golden era that never existed. My own parents and grandparents have answered this question when I’ve asked. Besides, the so called ‘bad parents’ came from that golden era where every child was disciplined perfectly and no kid stepped out of line.
The things that have changed are the number of kids per family is lower, fewer families, the mother is more likely to be working, and the concept of retirement has come into being. It’s allowed more play time for adults and less forced or voluntary interaction between adults and their children or others’ children.
I was in a Jersey Shore restaurant recently and the parents had a little kid along. The kid was normally rambuctious: standing up on the chair and occasionally misbehaving. But the parents’ overreaction to the kid was completely uncalled for. Yelling, screaming at him until my teeth rattled and my husband called for the check early, lol! So it works the other way sometimes.
I was in a sporting goods store once where a 5 year old had crawled into one of the display tents and was yelling “mom, mom, mom” repeatedly at the top of his lungs. I didn’t see any adults in the immediate vicinity, so when he took a breath to start yelling again, I said, “she left you.” That shut him up. He stuck his head out of the tent, looked around, and quietly said, “mom?”
Thirty or forty years ago my wife and I were eating in a very expensive restaurant in Manhattan. There was a couple in there with a or 7 year-old boy. They let the kid run wild and scream NO! at them when they asked him to sid down.
The maître d asked them twice to control the boy to no avail. After about 20 minutes a man in a suit I assume was the owner came to the table with the boy by the hand. He asked the couple, Is this yours? And pointed to the boy.
The couple nodded. The man then said take him and leave. Your meal is complementary and you owe nothing for the evening. However, do not return. Youre no longer welcome here.
The couple took the kid and left.
I thought it was the way every restaurant should handle disruptive kids.
This is the fault of both inconsiderate, over-indulgent parents AND gutless business owners.
A considerate person wouldn’t bring their children to restaurants if they are disturbing other diners. And when it comes to inconsiderate parents, business owners should, out of consideration for their other customers, have the wuevos to confront (and if necessary) expel rude parents and their kids.
Punishing the good with the bad to avoid confronting the bad is how limp-wristed nannies and liberals deal with a problem.
>>But the parents overreaction to the kid was completely uncalled for. <<
In most states, they would be arrested.
I am 25 years old and it sounds like I was raised in a similar fashion. My mom carried a wooden spoon in her purse at all times while we were still younger. She wouldn’t hesitate to pop us a couple of times with the spoon were we to step out of line. My dad would just give us that look that meant, “Keep it up and your backside will have a meeting with my belt when we get home.” He followed through on those threats. My brother has ADHD, or something similar, and I guess that was the overriding factor when it came to his behavior as a kid. They could spank him all they wanted and he never seemed to adjust his behavior. I guess my parents just decided it was best to stay home and let him mature a little. It seemed to have worked.
Baby Boomers are reaching retirement age en-masse. This is the most selfish generation the USA has seen (my generation). Everything has always been about them. Now that they are empty-nesters and leisure retirees, it is all about them once again. Sure, they are joined by another selfish generation - the Gen-X Dinks, but really this is an issue of the Baby Boomers.
Selfish to the core. It is always ALWAYS only about them. Give me. Mine. Me, me, me, me, me.
That is the purpose of McDonalds. I used it as a first step restaurant training ground for my kids. When they could behave there, they went to sit-down places like Friendly's and the local diner.
From there, they were ready for the big time, nice restaurants.
Fear = peace
How old are you?
Cause let me tell you, parents were much better behaved when I was a kid. Because there was such a thing as shame. People had it.
Now, if someone told a person that his/her kids was misbehaving, that person would feel “disrespected” and go off on you.
Your own parents and grandparents are not everywhere in the country and maybe in their world, parents and kids haven’t changed, but they sure have in mine.
>>OMG! Have you asked the mom how long she plans to wipe his butt?<<
We have learned not to go there. Just meddling gandparents, you know.
>>This is the most selfish generation the USA has seen (my generation).<<
Bull. Who do you think made them that way? The Greatest Generation. The ones who voted in the massive entitlements that WE now have to pay for.
How about those Free Power Chairs?
I don't think that airlines should be able to ban children altogether, but I certainly see the appeal of keeping them out of first class and business class.
These “parents” of unruly and out of control children have no choice they expose the rest of adults with the fruit of their loins.
No one, no one will provide baby setting for these little thugs who destroy every thing near them.
The number of us who want to attend, eat, relax sould not have to put up the Doctor Spock imbreds who became old enough to reproduce!
My point was that the wrong people are having the most kids, as reinforced by your post. Too many with money, education and discipline are choosing to remain childless.
My nephew in law “needed” his butt wiped until age 7. Now he’s 26 and a complete loser, no job, no desire for a job, never does anything to help around. The later they learn to wipe their own butt literally the longer it takes them to figure it out metaphorically.
“.. don’t want to worry about what is in the pool water”.
It’s in there! You don’t think adults actually go and tinkle in the restroom, do you? LOL!
It’s not the mere presence of children, it’s the presence of hellions whose parents think their parental duty stopped at conception. They’re so prevalent now all kids are assumed guilty until they prove themselves innocent. And they can’t really be dealt with on an ad hoc basis, a restaurant isn’t going to kick people out after they’ve gotten their food and before they’ve paid, stores don’t have the staff to escort every PITA out. How we’ve wound up “dealing” with them is putting up with it and trying to end it quickly, sadly the parents of hellions probably get better service everywhere they go because the businesses want them out. So now there’s a new “deal”, and it sucks for good parents, but it also sucks for the aspirin companies because the rest of us won’t be using as much.
Well behaved children are almost never a problem.
And that is the crux of the matter. Too few parents today take the time to teach their children how to behave.
“My husband was a good one for giving in to our oldest daughter”.
Yep... the little princess syndrome. Daddy doesn’t want his darling daughter upset with him. Good for you for taking over... what occurs when they are little and not disciplined will only turn worse when they get older. Nip it in the bud when little or pick them up at the police station when they are teens. I, too, have become the “mean Mommy”. I tell them to discuss it with their therapist when they are older. LOL!
They live in a “Cryocracy”. It is rather pitiful to see.
Some friends of my dad asked how it was that my brother and I (notoriously bad kids) listened to him and were (comparatively) well behaved. He said “I laugh at them when they cry and don't give them what they want.”.
They said they would give it a try - but after 10 minutes of crying in the car because they wouldn't stop at McDonald's - they gave in. My dad observed “next time you will have to go 20 minutes at least - they know your breaking point.”
They never did train the child. The child trained them.
Interesting - in neither bio does it actually say that she’s a parent.
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