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How Pilots Wrestled In Vain to Save Air France Jet
Reuters ^ | Tim Hepher

Posted on 07/31/2011 9:31:55 AM PDT by lbryce

"What do you think? What do you think? What should we do?"

The 37-year-old Air France co-pilot with over 6,000 flying hours was running out of ideas as a stall alarm bellowed through the Airbus cockpit for the sixth time in exactly two minutes.

His junior colleague with two years on the job was already in despair as he battled to control the jet's speed and prevent it rocking left to right in pitch darkness over the Atlantic, on only his second Rio de Janeiro-Paris trip as an A330 pilot.

"I don't have control of the plane. I don't have control of the plane at all," the younger pilot, 32, said.

The captain was not present and it was proving hard to get him back to the cockpit, where his more than 11,000 hours of flying experience were badly needed.

"So is he coming?" the senior co-pilot muttered, according to a transcript released on Friday. Light expletives were edited out of the text here and elsewhere, according to people familiar with the probe into the mid-Atlantic crash on June 1, 2009.

The 58-year-old captain and former demonstration pilot had left 10 minutes earlier for a routine rest. In his absence the plane had begun falling at more than 200 km (125 miles) an hour.

"Hey what are you --," he said on entering the cockpit.

"What's happening? I don't know, I don't know what's happening," replied the senior co-pilot, sitting on the left.

With the benefit of black boxes hauled up 4,000 metres (13,000 feet) from the ocean floor just two months ago, investigators now say the aircraft had stopped flying properly and entered a hazardous stall, as its 3,900 square feet (362 sq metres) of wings gasped for air.

(Excerpt) Read more at in.reuters.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: airbus; airfrance; disaster; flight447
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I overcome by a sense of absolute incredulity reading through the article about Flight 447's last four minutes before plunging into the sea, killing everyone on board. That the Captain on a break was slow to return to the cockpit, had to be summoned again, may very well have meant the difference with the extra time they would have otherwise had. It seems absolutely incredible to hear how the co-pilots respond to the dangers unfolding all around, sound more like Keystone Cops than the cool, secure pilots you would most certainly expect.
1 posted on 07/31/2011 9:32:00 AM PDT by lbryce
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To: lbryce

There’s going to be a lot of Sunday armchair QB’ing on this one. My two cents? They were in a stall situation and didn’t realize it. They hit the water almost flat (tail a bit down).


2 posted on 07/31/2011 9:36:06 AM PDT by SkyDancer (You know, they invented wheelbarrows to teach government employees how to walk on their hind legs.)
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To: lbryce

I don’t think these guys had a clue what their airspeed was.


3 posted on 07/31/2011 9:41:58 AM PDT by Phil Harmonic
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To: lbryce

I don’t think these guys had a clue what their airspeed was.


4 posted on 07/31/2011 9:42:26 AM PDT by Phil Harmonic
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To: lbryce

No mention of throttling up (whether they did or not)? I’d like read a full transcript of what was said, the media accounts of this are too disjointed. Journalists write what they think is important, and it’s pretty clear that they don’t know much about anything. (Journalism is the special olympics of college majors.)


5 posted on 07/31/2011 9:42:26 AM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Liberalism is a social disease.)
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To: lbryce

So true. As much as I respect them in some venues, their Special Forces, for instance, the French are just so damn French. Honestly, I don’t understand how they can stand it. It’s like this all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoqvq0Btn1c&feature=related


6 posted on 07/31/2011 9:42:51 AM PDT by definitelynotaliberal (There is no native criminal class except Congress. Mark Twain)
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To: lbryce

It didn’t sound that way to me.

It sounded like the plane was not responding and the instruments were having a serious malfunction...systemic

Two things of possible error stand out:

Captain coming in earlier rather than later

and why no response to the first stall warning...crickets

The rest they sounded reasonable to me but the bird just wouldn’t respond


7 posted on 07/31/2011 9:43:42 AM PDT by wardaddy (Palin or Bachman..either with Marco....I'm often on a .hence my spelling..sorry)
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To: SkyDancer
They hit the water almost flat (tail a bit down)

Is it known what the final descent rate was? Still something like 125 mph?

8 posted on 07/31/2011 9:43:42 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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To: SkyDancer

Semi agree. Pitch dark. Ice jammed instruments. Conflicting data from those that worked (perhaps partially, instruments get crazy if sensor ports blocked with ice then starts to melt away).


9 posted on 07/31/2011 9:45:23 AM PDT by Owen
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To: lbryce
Hey, when it's time for your break, it's time for your break.

What difference does it make if you're the captain of a passenger jet with hundreds of people aboard?

Your break time comes up, you take a break. That's it.

10 posted on 07/31/2011 9:46:44 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Obama goes on long after the thrill of Obama is gone)
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To: lbryce

Flying without visual on instruments that are not working is virtually impossible. The only thing that could possibly have saved them is the experienced captain’s intuition. He should have been at the controls as soon as he entered the cockpit.


11 posted on 07/31/2011 9:47:16 AM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: steve86

Is it known what the final descent rate was? Still something like 125 mph?

That’s airspeed, not descent rate...and an almost fully fueled Airbus with no flaps is probably quite close to stall speed at 125 knots (not MPH).


12 posted on 07/31/2011 9:47:25 AM PDT by Phil Harmonic
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To: lbryce
Does anyone else see a metaphor here for the current debt limit debacle? President Obama as the captain dozing in the back and the clowns in the Congress as the two copilots? The Air France tragedy didn't take as long, but we have been in a stall for a long time and haven't yet put the spending nose down.

There are only three ways to get out of a stall, put the nose down, add power or do both. The nose has to be put down now, not sometime later; the spending throttles are as far forward as they can go.
13 posted on 07/31/2011 9:48:58 AM PDT by DanMiller (Dan Miller)
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To: lbryce

Oh, geez. I hate flying already, this didn’t help. I only fly about once every 2 years, home to visit my family. And I am anxiety-ridden and convinced I’m about to die from the minute that plane leaves the ground till we land again and come to a complete halt.


14 posted on 07/31/2011 9:49:33 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: SkyDancer

Wow, that destroys the breakup in flight theory. What was the visibility?


15 posted on 07/31/2011 9:49:53 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Steely Tom
Your break time comes up, you take a break. That's it.

Of course!

It's stated clearly in his union contract.

Someone fought for his right to a break.

16 posted on 07/31/2011 9:49:59 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: wardaddy
The rest they sounded reasonable to me but the bird just wouldn’t respond

Fly by wire, die by software.

17 posted on 07/31/2011 9:50:15 AM PDT by null and void (Day 920. When your only tools are a Hammer & Sickle, everything looks like a Capitalist...)
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To: A_perfect_lady

I suggest alcohol. Lots of alcohol.

Or Xanax.


18 posted on 07/31/2011 9:51:51 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: wardaddy
The data recorder was decoded a few weeks ago. The bottom line is the pilots in the cockpit did not how to fly the plane without the computer. European airlines hire pilots with no real flying experience.

They had a reliable backup instrument for airspeed, altitude, and attitude, but didn't use it.

19 posted on 07/31/2011 9:53:03 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Retired Greyhound

Greyhound, THAT was funny.


20 posted on 07/31/2011 9:53:14 AM PDT by Phil Harmonic
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