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Tea Party for FAIR Trade, no more Free Trade
Self

Posted on 08/08/2011 7:37:26 PM PDT by indianyogi

Is this something Tea Party should take as a cause?

Usually Republican party is for Free Trade, but its time we keep our jobs right here in this great country of ours. Can Tea Party change the conversation on trade issues?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: clintonsminions; clintonwouldbeproud; corporateterrorism; freetrade; freetraders; freetraitors; liberalnonsense; nafta; votenader2012
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Try reading.


51 posted on 08/08/2011 8:58:51 PM PDT by jimfree (In 2012 Sarah Palin will have more quality executive experience than Barack Obama.)
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To: jimfree

Here is one: http://www.planetizen.com/node/42644

Look for others; they are out there.


52 posted on 08/08/2011 9:01:18 PM PDT by jimfree (In 2012 Sarah Palin will have more quality executive experience than Barack Obama.)
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To: Chi-townChief

“Don’t know - a lot of Tea Party folks seem to show up in foreign cars.”

Most “foreign cars” in the U.S. today are made in places like Tennessee, Kentucky and Ohio.


53 posted on 08/08/2011 9:07:58 PM PDT by bwc2221
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To: indianyogi

you are better off fighting for a strong dollar and lower corprate taxes


54 posted on 08/08/2011 9:08:39 PM PDT by DaxtonBrown (HARRY: Money Mob & Influence (See my Expose on Reid on amazon.com written by me!))
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To: casinva

Attitude? Competing for the lower standard IS the objective. The New Economy is about lowering wages to a job, if you can get one. Now the other side of the coin is DEMANDING my FAIR share!


55 posted on 08/08/2011 9:09:09 PM PDT by endthematrix (The Name of the Game is BAILOUT.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Thanks for the apology, and please take one from me as well if I caused anything. I don’t claim to be very knowledgeable of this specific issue other than I believe the less government meddling in business and markets, the better.

Notice I never responded to your specifics. I wouldn’t have much to say. Still trying to understand this issue a little more and think whatever I said specifically would probably be way off at this point anyway.

I can also accept your apology because I can see you are very passionate about this issue and that you are very concerned about our country. We are all concerned about how much more damage this administration may do or at least try to do before we can vote him out of office. I’m sure that is eating at everyone deep down, and it’s probably eating at you as well from your mention of time running out. It’s all OK. You have proven that we Americans are passionate people that stand up for what we believe in and for our country! So long as we are all still free to be passionate like that, we will dig out of this. We have to keep believing we will!


56 posted on 08/08/2011 9:13:16 PM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

LOL! According to the very article he posted in #52, to support the wild claim that Free Trade brings jobs back to the U.S., we find this:

“New tariffs, taxes, and employee salary and benefits laws are greatly diminishing the advantage of manufacturing in China, according to a new report by AlixPartners.

Clare Goldsberry reports, “Gone are the days when OEMs could realize 30 to 50 percent cost savings in manufacturing their products, which today gives companies pause when they consider whether it makes more sense to manufacture in the United States.”

So which is it that’s hypothetically, possibly going to bring back the manufacturing. The tariffs and taxes, or the Free Trade. The article suggest the Tarriffs and Taxes...


57 posted on 08/08/2011 9:13:24 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

Missed a comma and a question mark...


58 posted on 08/08/2011 9:15:43 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: casinva
You misunderstood my point. The “how and why” weren't about particulars, but reasoning behind Free Trade policies. The “how” means lowering wages, off-shoring or closing shop. The why is...?
59 posted on 08/08/2011 9:20:43 PM PDT by endthematrix (The Name of the Game is BAILOUT.)
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To: endthematrix

After reading your last post, I am really feeling empathy for you. It sounds like maybe you are one who is paying the price for our bad economy right now, looking for at least a “fair share”, competing for even a low job, any job at all (a low standard).

Please know that I wish better days ahead for you.

Not sure if this will help, but this has helped me through some tough times in my past.

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Wishing you better days ahead. Until then, keep your chin up or as my daughter has had to tell me from time to time... “Fake it ‘til you make it”. Best wishes.


60 posted on 08/08/2011 9:26:46 PM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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To: indianyogi
I can fix trade in under 5 minutes.

To the SEC. OF STATE. You are hereby ordered to contact each and every trading partner of the United States of America. You are to explain to each trading partner that any and all tariffs and embargoes on American Goods will be immediately dropped or All Goods from that American Trading Partner will be subject to a thorough inspection for parasites AFTER a mandatory 90 day Quarantine period. Any goods found infested with parasites will be immediately destroyed.

61 posted on 08/08/2011 9:29:58 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I don’t like relying on the feds for money. Their opinion of whether or not something is required when FED budgets are tight shouldn’t be a local problem. Let the FEDs take care of FED concerns and let the States take care of their concerns.


62 posted on 08/08/2011 9:32:37 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are..)
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To: upsdriver
Who gets to decide what is fair trade?

It is a relatively easy matter of determining how open foreign markets are to US exports.

We should trade freely with those whose markets are open to us and punish with tariffs and and denial of markets those who do not.

63 posted on 08/08/2011 9:55:14 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: endthematrix
The “how” means lowering wages, off-shoring or closing shop. The why is...?

Sorry, again, I probably wasn't and am not getting your point still. You are talking to a business moron here! LOL

If I DO understand enough..... Here's how it looks to me. It just seems like having fair trade where the government is setting all kinds of restrictions that add up to more bureaucracies, more oversight and thus more government spending, more czars, and less freedom for competent businesses to thrive competitively means a weaker American business economy and thus a weaker American economy. Fair trade also just reminds me of Obama's spreading the wealth message, only dealing with countries all around the world, social justice kind of. Oh, poor country over there. They don't do well, but let's give them benefits and take away the benefits of that big old United States who has too much anyway. Those factors all together take away American jobs and help make it harder for us to compete as a manufacturer of goods and products.

Free trade in a free market system, allowing our businesses to thrive, survive, or dive without government intervention allows the U.S., or any other country willing to work hard and do the right things, an opportunity to build an economy based on their hard work and good business.

Perhaps you are not against free trade itself but against NAFTA? I'm still trying to study that specifically too. That is probably why I even know the little I have learned about fair trade verses free trade. I won't try to comment on that at all.

So just know I am probably not getting your point as you mentioned in your post to me. I don't get all this stuff yet, and you are overloading me at this point! LOL

Just seems to me (maybe simplistically) but just seems to me that the more competitive we allow our businesses to be, the better our economy will be. The Why?... Because we CAN.

64 posted on 08/08/2011 10:06:05 PM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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To: Mad Dawgg

Kind of reminds me of that old joke that was around when Bill Clinton was in office. Can’t remember it all, but it ended up with Bill Clinton somehow having two little piglets in his arms, talking to a secret service officer at the White House. In their conversation, Bill Clinton told the secret service officer that he had gotten one of the little piglets for Hillary and one of the little piglets for Chelsey at which time the secret service officer said “Mighty nice trades there you got there, Sir.”


65 posted on 08/08/2011 10:19:00 PM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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To: Cicero
If you set tarriffs too high, then you elminate competition and prices will rise. If you set them too low, then other countries move in and all our factories close down

Tariffs are nothing more than taxes that increase the cost to consumers (tax payers) while allowing the fedgov to pick winners and losers while controlling an even larger share of the economic pie.

So, what you are arguing for is higher taxes and a bigger federal government that gets to choose which industries get protected from their competition and which ones don't. And I'm sure you believe that government will make these decisions based on something other than politics. What could possibly go wrong with higher taxes, a larger federal government and more control of industry by a bunch of clueless bureaucrats?

What passes for conservatism here some times is appalling.

66 posted on 08/09/2011 5:37:48 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: casinva
"No one should quit! Maybe you have lost all confidence in the free market and America’s ability to be the best nation on this earth, but I STILL BELIEVE IN US!"

Believe in Santa Claus, too? Our gov't spends 10-times per capita what the Chinese do. All of that comes out in the cost of goods made here. As does the cost of our outsized service, financial, and healthcare industries. We could drop wages BELOW what the Chinese pay, and still not be competitive. We need tariffs or we will soon have statistically close to zero industry in this country.

Sorry, but the national interest and continued economic security trumps the "right" of those who can think of nothing more than cheap sneakers in the short term. Stumping for the continuance of "free trade" as currently practiced is economically ignorant, and politically suicidal as it is recognized by anyone with a brain as dishonest parsing for reverse class warfare against the members of society who actually work to produce something. Open-borders fringe libertarian ideology has the GOP on the verge of whigging-out.

Nearly all actual TEA partiers I've run into hold the same opinion. It's mostly the Machiavellian jackwads pretending to be titular heads of TEA like Dick Armey saying otherwise.
67 posted on 08/09/2011 9:10:46 AM PDT by CowboyJay
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To: CowboyJay
Our gov't spends 10-times per capita what the Chinese do. All of that comes out in the cost of goods made here.

That's why the government needs to stop their government waste and reduce its spending, and the unions need to stop hurting the growth of our businesses as well so we don't have all this money going into waste and fraud and racketeering. When we stop all the nonsense going on there, our businesses should have plenty of money to start hiring workers and making quality products at reasonable prices once again.

Sorry, but the national interest and continued economic security trumps the "right" of those who can think of nothing more than cheap sneakers in the short term.

Enforcing immigration laws and providing national security measures don't need to go away. No one law ever stands alone, and no one policy removes our laws from the books.

Stumping for the continuance of "free trade" as currently practiced is economically ignorant, and politically suicidal as it is recognized by anyone with a brain as dishonest parsing for reverse class warfare against the members of society who actually work to produce something.

Free trade as it is currently practiced under an Obama administration has been hindered by too much government spending, so we don't need to look at what is CURRENTLY practiced under Obama's administration but at what is possible.

Governor Rick Perry's ability to draw businesses from other states with oppressive business practices has occurred because he doesn't do the CURRENT junk such as unionizing, growing government, and hampering businesses.

Texas has continued to grow and prosper and now has one of the best, if not THE best, economies in the country now!

The State of Texas, under the leadership of Governor Rick Perry, proves that if you believe in competitiveness, give your people have the chance to work, and stay focused on business growth instead of excessive government spending and the specific unionized practices that are debilitating to our economy, the economy will grow and the jobs will be there for people.

68 posted on 08/09/2011 10:09:30 AM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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To: casinva

And I’d like to see the rest of our country given that same chance now too.


69 posted on 08/09/2011 10:15:10 AM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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To: bwc2221

Yeah but a lot of the jobs and most of the money ends up going back to Germany, China, Korea, and Japan with Tennessee, Kentucky and Ohio doing the final assy work.


70 posted on 08/09/2011 10:40:42 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: indianyogi
How about:

"Tea Party for 'we're not liberal suckers who want to give it all away' trade?"

71 posted on 08/09/2011 10:49:37 AM PDT by GOPJ (The end of our great nation - caused by 'give it all away' dems. May dems reap what they sown...)
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To: CowboyJay

One of the most intelligent and straightforward posts I’ve seen in a week. The stupidity of the “You wanna raise my taxes via tarriffs” libertarian cop out just shows that they understand nothing. Either they are anarchists (wanting zero government), not only impossible, but dangerous, or they have to submit to some form of taxation. Everything government does is funded by some form of taxation, some legal, some illegal. The same government they want to protect their ability to get cheap stuff they want funded by someone else.

Tarriffs are like usage fees. Only those that use pay the fee associated with the cost of the good or service provided. The federal government is supposed to be tiny, and essentially only have any relevance to interaction with other nations, and is therefore best funded by tariff’s on goods going to or coming from other nations.

Only the grubbiest of Libertarians (low tax democrats), and the communists themselves argue for Free Trade, the rest of us patriots aren’t trying to be global citizens without country.


72 posted on 08/09/2011 10:58:30 AM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: casinva

Rick Perry is a fraudulent pantload who uses revenue-negative corporate welfare schemes to lure corporate HQ’s to Texas. As soon as the handouts cease, or they find a higher bidder, they’ll move on to fleece the next state’s coffers. Most of Texas’ real job growth has been due to spiking energy and ag commodity prices, neither of which RINO Ricky had anything to do with. In fact, Perry should send Obama, Geithner, and Bernanke a personal thank you note. They’re the ones who created the conditions for Texas’ recent job growth by shooting the dollar full of holes. Every time the dollar tanks, Texas goes into a boom - like clockwork.


73 posted on 08/09/2011 1:36:12 PM PDT by CowboyJay
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To: CowboyJay

May I ask you what you have against having a pro-business economy? You seem so negative to our country having a pro-business environment which would attract U.S. businesses to stay right here and which could be attractive for other businesses from other places to call The U.S. their headquarters as well. I would like to hear from you and why you don’t want businesses to stay or come to The United States. I would like to understand why you don’t like that kind of setting.

Wouldn’t it be better to provide a setting for growth inside our country and let us attract and keep manufacturing companies, industries, and other kinds of businesses here (and jobs here in The U.S. then too) because it would benefit those businesses to BE in The United States? If we provide that kind of environment for them to do business, they win, U.S. workers win, AND The U.S. economy wins.

I’m just not getting why you would rather tax businesses out their wazooka (in the name of ‘tariffing’ them to death) until they just move away to someplace where it’s better for them to run their businesses from. I’m also not understanding why you would want to take away the potential of growth by businesses in The U.S. by overburdening them with a multitude of heavy handed CZARS and an ocean full of federal-level red tape policies that just make companies want to be somewhere else. Finally, I’m not getting why you would feel the specific federal overreach through the anti-business growth vision of “fair trade / social justice / spread the wealth across the globe” policies would help as far as making The United States more attractive as a place of business, a place for manufacturers, and a place where profitable companies with people working for them could call home.

I understand a government that provides an environment where people can live in freedom, be protected, raise a family as they wish or chose not even to have a family, work hard, and get ahead when they work hard and keep going. I understand a government that provides an environment where businesses can do business, make a profit, and hire the workers they need. I DON’T understand a government that is so controlling on the federal level that we can’t do anything at all here in our land, out where the REAL people are.

I’m just not getting why you would want such a heavy hand of federal government regulations that it is easier for them to just move away and do their thing somewhere other then here. That just hurts our job situation even more.

You can see this on the state level even. Glenn Beck thought the Texas pro-business atmosphere was the way to go, and he has moved to Texas so he could build his television / internet empire in the “pro-business and limited government intervention / pro-growth” State of Texas. New York has lost a LOT of businesses because they are doing the things you seem to like that make businesses and manufacturing companies MOVE AWAY. Places like New York are losing businesses AND jobs. Places like Texas are gaining businesses and jobs. Why you would want to have our country run like New York where it will lose businesses and jobs is way beyond what I can understand, especially if you truly want to help those who live in our own country.

Do please defend why you think an anti-business environment in our country will keep or attract businesses here to The U.S. and add to the jobs we have here. As I said, I would really like to hear how you think that would work.


74 posted on 08/09/2011 3:26:16 PM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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To: casinva

Having owned and operated businesses, I actually understand the difference between being pro-business, and using corporate welfare schemes to fake growth numbers by buying jobs directly out of the state treasury. Texas has a fiscal time bomb ticking, and Perry’s trying to get out of Austin before it goes off.

We agree on smaller government and less domestic regulation. We disagree on that being a panacea. We need tariffs, or we’re not going to have an industrial sector left in another decade. Tariffs ARE pro-business. Pro AMERICAN business, and pro AMERICAN jobs. Tax finished goods coming in from other countries, and our domestic firms get an advantage in US markets rather than being at a disadvantage to companies who benefit from our military and our infrastructure, but don’t pay anything for their upkeep. It’s no accident that the few industries we have that are relatively healthy benefit from tons of protectionist intervention.

Texas’ jobs numbers, though better than most of the country are still a joke. They’re adding population faster than jobs just like everywhere else.


75 posted on 08/09/2011 3:56:15 PM PDT by CowboyJay
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To: CowboyJay

Cowboy,

Thanks for your response.

You are right that we stand together on our foundational principles at least. We both want true growth, more prosperity, and more jobs staying in our country. I believe there must be some kind of area between extreme protectionism that goes soooooo far that it runs American businesses out of our country and diminishes our nation’s attractiveness to business... and the total opposite... where we look the other way in everything that comes and goes.

It doesn’t really sound like you want the federal government to be overly controlling... over reaching, not really, and I don’t want to have a country that is at risk or is just some kind of sucker for another country, and I would guess neither of us want to have a loss... or lack... of jobs in our own country.

We do have a good starting point together at least, I believe, and with more conservative leaders looking out for things like this and how all the various details really work out together, on all the federal, state, local, and business levels, we’ll hopefully get in the right direction the best ways soon.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and insights on this issue.


76 posted on 08/09/2011 5:04:26 PM PDT by casinva (It was Obama who set the August 2 date to begin with. Since when did we start believing him?)
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