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As cold fusion events demonstrate, modern science is ruled by conformity
Medicine Science ^ | August 29, 2011 | Posted by aksell

Posted on 09/12/2011 9:50:15 PM PDT by Kevmo


As cold fusion events demonstrate, modern science is ruled by conformity, not the search for scientific truth
Posted by aksell on August 29, 2011


I’ve often wondered why it is that conventionally trained medical doctors are so reluctant to venture outside the limited thinking of conventional medicine. Why are they hesitant to adopt new ideas and new theoretical models for the underlying causes of human health or disease? I think I have at least a partial answer to this question: Doctors only succeed in medical school or in acquiring publication of their studies when they conform with the views and beliefs of their peers. In other words, becoming a successfuldoctorin today’s political-medical environment requires being a conformist. People who are independent thinkers are filtered out of the process early on .

If you challenge thebeliefsof your professors in med school, they’re going to fail you. If you challenge your mentors during residencytraining, they are not going to support your continued training. If you challenge the beliefs of your peers in thescientific community, you are not going to get published. This is how today’s system ofconventional medicine(“scientific medicine”) suppresses the emergence of new ideas and new theories that could produce true breakthroughs in our understanding of health,medicine, science and thenatureof the universe .

Thesciencethat’s published in medical and scientific journals today may indeed be solid science, but it in no way represents all of the goodscientific researchbeing conducted today. There are independent thinkers,scientists, pioneers and outright scientific rebels who are doing extraordinaryresearch, yet never get published. Even worse, their research gets systematically ridiculed by the old school guardians of the scientificcommunity. One of the most obvious examples of this is the team of Fleischmann and Pons, who are, of course, the fathers of “cold fusion,” which is now better known as “low-energy nuclear reactions.”

The systematic discrediting of cold fusion
Cold fusion is still laughed at by people in the mainstream who are too ignorant to realize that cold fusionexperimentsare being replicated and conducted in laboratories all around the world this very minute, most notably in Japan. Low-energy nuclear reactions are quite real. These reactions, which use a palladium catalyst and heavywater, are being used to generate excess heat in laboratories as you read this. In other words, cold fusion is quite real .

If you think back to 1989 and look at the way this issue was suppressed, you realize that the credibility of cold fusion was destroyed by scientists who had career and ego investments in the theories ofhot fusion. These were scientists who had published papers or invested their careers in multi-billion dollar experiments trying to generate free electricity from hot fusion. Thus, the idea that two chemists could create cold fusion with a tabletop experiment was viewed as outrageous. Rather than examining theevidencewith an open mind and try to understand and replicate what was going on, they sought to destroy it .

This ego-fueledsuppressionof cold fusion was quite successful, to the point where, today, if you mention cold fusion to anyone who is steeped in conventional medicine or science, they will laugh at you and say, “Cold fusion is a joke, just like medicalquackery.” But of course, the big joke is on them, because cold fusion does indeed exist, and it has been proven time and time again .

(You can see pictures of a modern cold fusion experiment running at the physics department of Purdue university athttp://www.physics.purdue.edu/neutron/LENR.html)

A 30 percent success rate means it’s real
The reason why cold fusion was difficult to prove back in 1989 is because, during those times, the experimenters were only able to replicate these low-energy nuclear reactions in 30 percent of the experiments. So if a laboratory ran ten experiments, they would obtain low-energy nuclear reactions in three of those ten cases. According to the hot fusion defenders, this was proof enough that cold fusion was a fraud .

Of course, it is scientific insanity to suggest that just because something happens three out of ten times, it doesn’t exist at all. In my view, three out of ten times is pretty darn good for an emerging science that is experimental in nature and very poorly understood. With refinement and additional experiments, that number could doubtlessly have been increased to six or seven out of ten, and perhaps eventually ten out of ten .

Nevertheless, cold fusion was discredited. Today, more than 15 years later, it remains discredited and virtually unknown in the Western world. Meanwhile, Fleischmann and Pons are busy working for private corporations who will, without a doubt, one day release industrial or consumer versions of low-energy nuclear reactors that will provide freeenergyto households, businesses and even entire communities at very little cost .

Every time I write about cold fusion, by the way, I get one or two letters from some “esteemed” professor of physics from some university who thinks it’s his job to explain to me why cold fusion doesn’t exist and can’t work. (It’s a lot like receiving a letter through some sort of time machine, where all the senders of the letters are fifty years behind…) As always, these people remain utterly ignorant of what’s happening in this field. For example, in 1999, the Depart of Energy actually funded a low-energy nuclear reaction lab at the University of Illinois. Read it yourself athttp://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_6_10_1.html .

There are now over 400 scientific papers on cold fusion, most of which are now available athttp://www.lenr-canr.org/, the leading cold fusion community website. This site provides excellent reading on the history of cold fusion as well as the many challenges still being faced in this search for genuine scientific understanding .


Modern science seeks to protect its interests, not to reveal truth
The suppression of cold fusion is just one example of how our modern the scientific community operates more like a group of high priests than seekers of genuine scientific understanding. As a result, the science we live with today only represents a small fraction of the true scientific knowledge available to mankind. Much of the good science conducted over the last hundred years has been suppressed (cold fusion is just the beginning of this story). It has largely been concealed to protect either the financial interests of certain corporations or the ego interests of certain individuals or scientific groups .

In the world of so-called “evidence-based medicine,” the defenders of conventional medicine, which include the American Medical Association,medical schoolsand conventionally traineddoctors, also want to protect their territory. They want to remain in control over all medical decisions and health-related interactions withpatients. Yet, they have very few qualifications for actually doing so. For example, medicalschoolsdon’t even teach basicnutrition, and doctors graduate from medical schools and residence training with practically no understanding of nutrition whatsoever. They have no real qualifications to talk to patients aboutdiseaseprevention through healing foods, or to talk about how to live a healthy life through intelligentfoodchoice. These are the basics ofhealth, yet they are almost entirely ignored bymodern medicine .

Many of the most promising healing modalities are not just ignored by conventional medicine; they are in fact ridiculed. Homeopathy comes to mind.Homeopathy is discredited simply because the defenders of conventional medicine have no understanding of the mechanism by whichhomeopathicremedies work. It’s similar to saying that there is no such thing asinfectious diseasebecause we can’t see anygerms(which was once the official position of science-based medicine). Of course, once the microscope was invented, germs could be seen, and the acceptance of the scientific validity of infectious disease soon followed .

Some day, there will be instruments that can measure the vibrational nature, or what is called the “memory,” of water. When those instruments are available,homeopathywill seem to be common sense, but today it is considered fringe science or quackery by the defenders of conventional medicine because they don’t see how it could possibly work. They leave no room in theirbelief systemsfor the possibility that something could operate outside their current understanding. As long as there is no microscope for seeing homeopathic energy, the stodgy, egoistic defenders of evidence-based medicine will call it quackery. Of course, this is the samethinkingthat once called the germ theory quackery .


Ego is the enemy of science innovation
As you may have guessed, egos are a big part of the problem in all of this, because it is the ego that prevents people from challenging their current belief systems and adopting new ideas that require them to change. It’s often said that college professors hate to rewrite their courses, and I think that’s a good description of what’s occurring on a much larger scale here .

No one wants to rewrite their theories, re-evaluate their belief systems or admit they were wrong. Scientific understanding thus only progresses at the rate that leaders of conventional science retire or die. Thank goodness they do, because when that happens, they take their old, distorted belief systems with them, thereby making room for the new understanding and belief systems of the next generation of scientists. Science thus marches forward slowly, not on a schedule conducive to breakthroughs or true scientific research, but more along one that is dictated by the retirement of old guard defenders of outdated scientific theory .

The bottom line is: We as consumers should be wary any time someone says they have a “scientific approach” or an “evidence-based approach” to medicinal herbs, nutrition, pharmaceuticals or medicine.Anything that’s based on evidence is also subject to the distortions and belief systems of old-guard scientists and doctors who currently control the intellectual topography in which this evidence is framed. Just because something claims to be based on evidence doesn’t mean it’s true, nor that it stands up to genuine scientific scrutiny. And just because something is called quackery or rejected by the scientific community doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It could simply mean that a sufficient number of old school scientists haven’t died yet to make room for these new observations or theories .

Remember, current scientific “truth” is defined and guarded by a committee of the most powerful people and organizations in the scientific community (it’s called “peer review”). Anyone who has ever worked on a committee knows real progress under such systems is slow and painful. Real scientific progress usually comes from determined, outcast scientific rebels who are viciously attacked by old guard defenders of the current scientific community. You might recognize a few of their names: Einstein, Semmelweis, Copernicus, Tesla, and more than a few others .


Filed in: Medicine A - N





TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: blog; cmns; coldfusion; ecat; knightswhosaynih; lenr
The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

http://medicine-science.com/as-cold-fusion-events-demonstrate-modern-science-is-ruled-by-conformity-not-the-search-for-scientific-truth/

1 posted on 09/12/2011 9:50:23 PM PDT by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Lancey Howard; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; ...

The Cold Fusion Ping List
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

http://medicine-science.com/as-cold-fusion-events-demonstrate-modern-science-is-ruled-by-conformity-not-the-search-for-scientific-truth/


2 posted on 09/12/2011 9:51:17 PM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Kevmo

The term “cold fusion” is the restraint.


3 posted on 09/12/2011 10:05:54 PM PDT by allmost
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To: Kevmo
Ignorant gibberish. Stop wasting time and space.
4 posted on 09/12/2011 10:06:12 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Kevmo
I’ve often wondered why it is that conventionally trained medical doctors are so reluctant to venture outside the limited thinking of conventional medicine. Why are they hesitant to adopt new ideas and new theoretical models for the underlying causes of human health or disease? I think I have at least a partial answer to this question: Doctors only succeed in medical school or in acquiring publication of their studies when they conform with the views and beliefs of their peers. In other words, becoming a successfuldoctorin today’s political-medical environment requires being a conformist. People who are independent thinkers are filtered out of the process early on .

This is a caricature of medical science and science in general. There are always new ideas, models, and theories being proposed and adopted. The cynicism of the above quote is a means of saying, "Hey, you won't listen to what I believe to be true because you want to hold on to what you believe to be true. Therefore, what you claim to be true, unlike what I claim to be true, is only rationalized self-interest, and the fact that you oppose me means that I'm the truly independent thinker and more likely to be right." In spite of examples, even in science, of people behaving like people, it's still a fairly juvenile argument to make.
5 posted on 09/12/2011 10:08:15 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Kevmo

Everything that is in this article can be said about the “settled” science of global warming as well.


6 posted on 09/12/2011 10:12:23 PM PDT by Ronin (Obamanation has replaced Bizarroworld as the most twisted place in the universe.)
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To: Ronin

Precisely.

Peer-review dogma in climate science and in science in general
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2777433/posts


7 posted on 09/12/2011 10:15:50 PM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: hinckley buzzard

You paint a broad statement. No argument. Your mindset would have us all pulling plows right now so just back off please. ;)


8 posted on 09/12/2011 10:26:47 PM PDT by allmost
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To: hinckley buzzard
Ignorant gibberish.

Not to mention repetitive. Kevmo adds to his record every time he regurgitates this stuff from a blog.

9 posted on 09/12/2011 10:37:49 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: aruanan

One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.

Robert A. Heinlein

(I always liked that quote)


10 posted on 09/12/2011 10:39:41 PM PDT by Ronin (Obamanation has replaced Bizarroworld as the most twisted place in the universe.)
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Take Ohm for example. When he formulated Ohm’s law he was laughed at. He was fired from his teaching job because hadn’t based his theory on science. He was refused employment at the University because he had based his theory on too much science. He was ignored for 20 years until someone else discovered the same law. That’s how the scientific community operates.


11 posted on 09/12/2011 10:54:02 PM PDT by webboy45
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To: Moonman62
Much of it is idiotic. Most ideas are. Neither of you argue the physical improbability so I assume you are a ‘fly by’ ass with nothing but derogatory lies.
12 posted on 09/12/2011 10:57:17 PM PDT by allmost
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To: Moonman62
I think this is BS. But worthy bs.
13 posted on 09/12/2011 11:06:59 PM PDT by allmost
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To: aruanan; hinckley buzzard

“This is a caricature of medical science and science in general.”

Couldn’t agree more... If his thesis was correct we’d still be practicing alchemy and bleeding people.

With regard to medicine there’s thousands of people practicing and millions using “alternative medicine” from acupuncture to homeopathy to herbal treatments to shamanism to prayer to meditation and so on.

The reason these techniques are not as widely accepted as “mainstream” medicine is because they don’t work - at least for the vast majority of people. Were any to prove consistently effective, believe me, they would quickly gain widespread acceptance and use.


14 posted on 09/12/2011 11:10:37 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48

You don’t think meditation works in a beneficial way.


15 posted on 09/13/2011 12:07:10 AM PDT by allmost
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To: hinckley buzzard
It ends up being a tout for quackery. Homeopathic medicine and the so-called “memory” of diluted water. Diluted with what? Still more water, it seems water can pass on its memory.

Purdue University did indeed run a “cold fusion” experiment but it was actually pretty hot as in millions of degrees hot.
The researchers used acoustic waves to cause cavitation in acetone and when the small bubbles collapsed atoms of deuterium fused. Useful and interesting but so what?

16 posted on 09/13/2011 12:33:07 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: allmost

“You don’t think meditation works in a beneficial way.”

Actually I use it myself - but for a lot of people it doesn’t seem to do much for them.

The point of the article was that mainstream medicine as a whole was somehow conspiring to keep “alternative” practices available. I simply don’t find that to be true. In fact in the case of meditation, many doctors recommend it for reducing stress.

Also quite a few doctors, like Dr Weill, have become quite famous in pursuing and advocating a “fusion” type of medicine that incorporates the best of both mainstream and “alternative” medicine.


17 posted on 09/13/2011 12:55:55 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48
You're weird. I like you.
18 posted on 09/13/2011 1:01:19 AM PDT by allmost
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To: allmost; aquila48

http://www.shambhala.org


19 posted on 09/13/2011 3:11:59 AM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist info..http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: hinckley buzzard
"Ignorant gibberish. Stop wasting time and space."

Well, I don't know about the medical part, but the suppression of cold fusion was (and is) very real. But the general tendency to enforced conformity is certainly there...there are many other examples.

20 posted on 09/13/2011 3:48:54 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Moonman62
"Not to mention repetitive. Kevmo adds to his record every time he regurgitates this stuff from a blog."

The "Abuse" button is right where it has always been.

21 posted on 09/13/2011 3:50:31 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo; All

There are emerging theories that may totally change (well, majorly change) the way we look at physics.

IF - and I said IF - Brandenburgs theories on GEM are verified, we will be entering a new realm.

Anti-gravity generated by electromagnetic fields.
Faster than light travel.

The early parts of it seem to have been published in about 2000, he did alot more detail work in 2006, and has been getting peer-reviewed since then and nobody seems to be able to refute it.

As an interesting side note, he predicts the answer to the universe is not 42, it’s 42.85xxx

I am reading his book now, will have more to say when I finish it and do more web research.


22 posted on 09/13/2011 3:57:00 AM PDT by djf (One of the few FReepers who NEVER clicked the "dead weasel" thread!! But may not last much longer...)
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To: aquila48
With regard to medicine there’s thousands of people practicing and millions using “alternative medicine” from acupuncture to homeopathy to herbal treatments to shamanism to prayer to meditation and so on.

The reason these techniques are not as widely accepted as “mainstream” medicine is because they don’t work - at least for the vast majority of people. Were any to prove consistently effective, believe me, they would quickly gain widespread acceptance and use.

The placebo effect is a real phenomenon, and most likely accounts for the (very) limited success of those "alternative" medicines. Whenever I see someone urging people to reject evidence-based science and embrace "alternative" medicine developed on the basis of ... well, I don't know, but it makes me cringe and despair for the state of scientific education these days. I'm sure those same people disparaging the use of scientific based medicine are equally in favor of rejecting evidence if they ever get arrested and have to be put on trial...

23 posted on 09/13/2011 4:09:35 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom

The placebo effect is a real phenomenon, and most likely accounts for the (very) limited success of those “alternative” medicines.

You’re right. It also accounts for a not insignificant percent of the effects of approved medicines.


24 posted on 09/13/2011 4:18:19 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Kevmo

Thank you for posting this and ignoring the ‘Luddites’.


25 posted on 09/13/2011 4:22:55 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Diogenesis
Thank you for posting this and ignoring the ‘Luddites’.

Funny, that, considering that the idea portrayed in the piece is the reigning theorem of the post-modern Luddites.
26 posted on 09/13/2011 4:27:24 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Diogenesis; Kevmo; aquila48
Thank you for posting this and ignoring the ‘Luddites’.

The reason that people talk about the "body of knowledge" is that, like the body, there is system that serves to integrate and coordinate intellectual endeavors. The degree and efficiency with which it does it is open to question. But the idea that a body of anything should be "open to change" and "alternative this or that" would be like saying that various cancers are just alternative ways of an approach to biology that the body is trying to fight or that the body should be more open to trying different approaches to energy and resource use posed by various viruses and bacteria.

There are new and innovative ways of doing things and we see them all the time. Over the past 200 years we've seen greater and more frequent examples of this than at about any point in history. It may be that those who have a reigning theorem are reluctant to change it, but it's only natural that they would be, absent a really good reason to do so. And the reigning theorum usually does change as it comes up against a better and more efficient way of doing and explaining things. But it's unreasonable to ask that what is "established" take the attitude that anything is just as likely to be true as anything else.
27 posted on 09/13/2011 4:42:40 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: hinckley buzzard; Kevmo
Ignorant gibberish. Stop wasting time and space.

Thank you for demonstrating the premise of this article, hinckley buzzard.

28 posted on 09/13/2011 5:10:07 AM PDT by Lazamataz (If Hitler had been as lazy as Obama, the 1940's would have been a very nice decade!!)
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To: aruanan
"This is a caricature of medical science and science in general. There are always new ideas, models, and theories being proposed and adopted."

Well, it might exaggerate somewhat, but the problem described is very real. Medicine isn't my field, but I recall the "ulcers/H.Pylori" saga. In geology, "plate tectonics" is a good example. I'm sure there have been others in medicine and geology as well as other fields. And I've seen serious academic discussions about how science could do a better job of recognizing "outside the box" but nevertheless real discoveries. One proposal is for journals to actually reserve some small part of their space specifically to explore "fringe issues".

29 posted on 09/13/2011 5:43:32 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: aruanan
"This is a caricature of medical science and science in general. There are always new ideas, models, and theories being proposed and adopted."

Well, it might exaggerate somewhat, but the problem described is very real. Medicine isn't my field, but I recall the "ulcers/H.Pylori" saga. In geology, "plate tectonics" is a good example. I'm sure there have been others in medicine and geology as well as other fields. And I've seen serious academic discussions about how science could do a better job of recognizing "outside the box" but nevertheless real discoveries. One proposal is for journals to actually reserve some small part of their space specifically to explore "fringe issues".

30 posted on 09/13/2011 5:43:59 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
One proposal is for journals to actually reserve some small part of their space specifically to explore "fringe issues".

Remember, though, that "fringe" stuff is, by its nature, virtually unlimited in scope. The better way would be for "peer review" to continue to get criticism until it becomes synonymous with CYA and then lose out to people actually looking at data.
31 posted on 09/13/2011 5:49:27 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
"Remember, though, that "fringe" stuff is, by its nature, virtually unlimited in scope."

I suspect that the part of the "fringe" that is actually doing serious work is a limited subset, and that any competent journal author should be able to recognize serious science vs. "garage crackpots". The thing to avoid is "topics that must be rejected at all costs".

"The better way would be for "peer review" to continue to get criticism until it becomes synonymous with CYA and then lose out to people actually looking at data.

I'm not sure I understand how this would work. Can you elaborate??

32 posted on 09/13/2011 7:02:35 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Lazamataz

Bulls-eye, Laz. LOL


33 posted on 09/13/2011 7:10:26 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

I almost wonder if hinckley buzzard wasn’t being funny and ironic on purpose. :)


34 posted on 09/13/2011 7:13:10 AM PDT by Lazamataz (If Hitler had been as lazy as Obama, the 1940's would have been a very nice decade!!)
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To: Moonman62

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35 posted on 09/13/2011 8:54:24 AM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: djf

Anti-gravity generated by electromagnetic fields.
***Sounds a lot like electrogravitics. It even has a keyword here on FR.
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/electrogravitics/index?tab=articles


36 posted on 09/13/2011 9:00:55 AM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Wonder Warthog
I suspect that the part of the "fringe" that is actually doing serious work is a limited subset, and that any competent journal author should be able to recognize serious science vs. "garage crackpots". The thing to avoid is "topics that must be rejected at all costs".

This is what I mean. You'd have to have a review process to separate the garage crackpots from serious science. Since there is so much fringe stuff out there and since serious science that is way outside the current paradigms looks to established science at any point in history like garage crackpot stuff, you'd have to have extremely well-read editors to be able to adequately evaluate what should and shouldn't be in.

"The better way would be for "peer review" to continue to get criticism until it becomes synonymous with CYA and then lose out to people actually looking at data.

I'm not sure I understand how this would work. Can you elaborate??


This would have to just entail a shift in attitudes to the point that people would go back to sharing their results in the same way they did before what we currently call "peer review" existed. And it wasn't that long ago, historically speaking.
37 posted on 09/13/2011 9:48:40 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Kevmo

True science can be stand-offish to new ideas. The entire idea f the scientific model is that there are facts that you can build from.... and accepted ideas that seem to fit that model very well. It is incumbent upon the newcomer with the strange ideas to either show how these ideas fit into the accepted ideas, or how they change them. It is NOT up to the scientific community to “accept new ideas” BEFORE they are proven! Either create repeatable scientific evidence, or create a new working model... or shut up an keep working in the dark. In the end, if your ideas are valid, you’ll reap your rewards. Expecting the scientific community to accept unproven and as-yet-unprivable ideas is simply NOT science. Expecting anything else seems to indicate that your science is poor, your idea is not valid, and that you ought to be ignored.


38 posted on 09/13/2011 10:01:39 AM PDT by Teacher317 (really?)
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To: allmost

“You’re weird. I like you.”

LOL - my wife has pointed that out to me on more than one occasion.


39 posted on 09/13/2011 10:09:23 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: exDemMom

“The placebo effect is a real phenomenon, and most likely accounts for the (very) limited success of those “alternative” medicines.”

Isn’t the placebo effect “alternative” medicine? Science does not understand it well enough (yet) to make it a reliable treatment.

“Whenever I see someone urging people to reject evidence-based science and embrace “alternative” medicine developed on the basis of ... well, I don’t know, but it makes me cringe and despair for the state of scientific education these days.”

I don’t despair as long as they are the ones who suffer the consequences.

However, it’s also important to be aware of science’s very real limitations. Its realm is restricted to what’s repeatable and reproducible. It can’t deal with one-time events, or those that seem totally spurious. So “miracles”, “seers” that might predict a future event, in other words all the “paranormal” space is outside science’s scope, even though it is part of reality.


40 posted on 09/13/2011 10:29:35 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48
Isn’t the placebo effect “alternative” medicine? Science does not understand it well enough (yet) to make it a reliable treatment.

However, it’s also important to be aware of science’s very real limitations. Its realm is restricted to what’s repeatable and reproducible. It can’t deal with one-time events, or those that seem totally spurious. So “miracles”, “seers” that might predict a future event, in other words all the “paranormal” space is outside science’s scope, even though it is part of reality.

No, the placebo effect is very understandable within the realm of medical science. It is very well established that a person's mental attitude affects their health, and the placebo directly affects a person's mental attitude.

In contrast, "alternative" medicine is marketed on the basis that it is NOT supported by science, and that its effectiveness is based on mysterious principles unknown by "mainstream" science.

Most of what would be called "supernatural" is not actually outside the realm of science (which is the art of observing the physical world around us). Just because an event is "one-time" doesn't mean that it was caused by some non-natural agent; in order for a scientist to observe something, they first have to figure out the conditions under which it occurs. A rare enough event might not be observable scientifically. Ditto with "miracles." It would be called a miracle, for instance, if someone would recover from incurable cancer. Yet, despite the fact that it rarely happens, there is no reason the body can't mount an effective immune response against cancer. And with "seers"--there are any number of reasons they might predict a future event. Many fortune tellers, for instance, are good judges of human nature, who can ascertain that certain events are likely in a person's life just by asking a few pointed questions and watching their body language while they answer.

I know that it is not very romantic to reject the supernatural. But the natural world around me is teeming with such wonders that I don't need to turn to the supernatural to find the amazing.

41 posted on 09/13/2011 12:01:18 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: aruanan
"This would have to just entail a shift in attitudes to the point that people would go back to sharing their results in the same way they did before what we currently call "peer review" existed. And it wasn't that long ago, historically speaking."

Y'know, I think "Free Republic" would be a good model to do this. A scientific paper would be "published" as news stories are currently (in full, NOT ABSTRACTED), and "peer review" take place via the comments. You'd get a lot of chaff along with the heat, but I think it could work. Problem is how to run it so it pays for itself.

42 posted on 09/13/2011 12:24:04 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
"You'd get a lot of chaff along with the heat"

LOL...that's supposed to be "wheat", but there'd undoubtedly be a lot of heat as well.

43 posted on 09/13/2011 1:17:21 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: exDemMom

“I know that it is not very romantic to reject the supernatural. But the natural world around me is teeming with such wonders that I don’t need to turn to the supernatural to find the amazing.”

I didn’t call those things “supernatural” - you did. I’m not a romantic when it comes to “alternative” stuff - in fact I take them with a great deal of salt. I referred to them as paranormal. In fact I explicitly stated that those one time events are part of reality, but science cannot do much with them other than speculate because, again, the scientific method relies on reproducibility and repeatability. Having said that I’m all in favor of science investigating paranormal events.

By the way, I’m an engineer, so I appreciate science and nature very much, and am awed at how much it has contributed to our understanding of the universe. It is undoubtedly one of man’s greatest achievement. Still I believe its wise to know and appreciate its limits.


44 posted on 09/13/2011 10:51:30 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48

I’m sorry, I misunderstood you. I guess I’ve been listening to too much Coast to Coast... a side effect of having to drive late at night.


45 posted on 09/14/2011 3:54:10 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom

No problem....

Every once in a while I catch Coast to Coast if I’m out late - that show is proof that lack of sleep warps the brain.


46 posted on 09/14/2011 10:59:48 PM PDT by aquila48
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