Skip to comments.My own humble opinion about the debate... and yours?
Posted on 09/22/2011 8:12:40 PM PDT by dangus
Newt Gingrich won again. I'm actually starting to get excited for him. In fact, if Sarah Palin doesn't run, I'm going to have to consider him, in spite of his personal life. He came off as the smartest, most capable guy in the room, but also, again, the most feisty and courageous.
Michelle Bachmann continues to fade into the background, despite explaining her Gardasil comments. Much better than the last two debates.
Herman Cain gave a great performance, a huge improvement over a couple debates ago when he was a non-factor. I think his 9-9-9 is idiotic, since a sales tax is BOTH regressive and crushes spending, which might have been a plus in 2005, but is a killer to hopes of an economic recovery. But his *performance* was strong.
Rick Perry was absolutely terrible. He was so stiff, he looked as stiff as Charles Krauthammer and as propped up as Mike Dukakis, and so incapable of annunicating his attacks on Romney that they fell apart with a simple denial by Romney. His answers about illegal immigration were complete crap, forcing him to run away from Rick Santorum's painfully simple question.
Romney in contrast played a game of "I'll deny this, but I'll admit this," openly acknowledging that there's stuff in his past that people will have problems with, but denying each of Perry's specifics. To me, his admissions in general to unpopular stances, but denials of specific accusations by Perry actually made his specific denials credible, and Perry seem weak.
Santorum was excellent, second only to Gingrich in his sharpness and boldness. Too bad he's unelectable, but he actually started to seem vice presidential to me.
How can Ron Paul top siding with Ahmadinejab? How about making the US into the Soviet Union and the Mexican border with the Iron Curtain? Despicable. Loathesome. Insane.
Gary Johnson came off as the credible libertarian candidate. An awkward delivery style, but he avoided the bizarre statements and embarrassing positions of Ron Paul.
Jon Hunstman quit attacking Republicans and actually started to sound like one. Not a bad talker, but too much like Romney. Not at all because they're both Mormons.
The big winner: Newt Gingrich, with Mitt Romney, Herman Cain and Rick Santorum being strong. Johnson takes the libertarian title.
The big loser: Rick Perry actually manages to top Ron Paul in offending the most people, by calling opposing giving special $100,000 tuition breaks to illegal aliens, "heartless."
Still waiting for Sarah.
The truth is that any one of them would be so much better then what we have now it’s not even measurable. I believe anyone of them would beat obumber the way Reagan bet jimmy. The msm has been running interference for obumber all along, but voters now know what he is about. But Palin would be the best thing that could happen for the country.
Cain and Gingrich were the best by far. Cain could be a good leader with Newt as a VP to get through the D.C. maze since he knows how it works. I think Cain will advance after tonight.
Maybe I missed it but did Rick Perry appear on Sean Hannity's post-debate segment on FNC? I recall seeing Herman Cain, Michele Bachmann, Mitt Romney and even Ron Paul but if Perry was on, I don't remember it.
I also wonder if Rick Perry's handlers realize that this is now the third debate in the row that he's been off the mark. I don't necessarily equate a debate performance with the skills required for the Oval Office but, to put it kindly, he's not been a Great Communicator (in the mold of Reagan, a high standard to be sure) thus far.
I’ll throw in an opinion from overseas. I’m not American so domestic policy is not a huge concern for me. Gingrich is the man America needs right now to re-assert itself in the world. He knows his stuff, he’s been around a long time and he’s got a brain between his ears. The very last thing America needs is another lightweight like Bush and Obama.
Newt will never be POTUS
Too bad you are right. Its hard to decide if they are spin doctoring for Mutt or just want to look cute by having such a crap format pandering to lib Google. FNC actually managed to make the chickenshit stuff on the CNN debate look fairer.
Fox seems to want to play up the wannabes that really don’t have a shot at the nomination to what point? Leave Mutt the last one standing? Maybe just to have more exciting theater.
Sadly Perry did not do well, possibly by being “too coached” like Cain said to Hannity, and possibly because the format and questions were played to “gotya” Perry. I do know from Perry’s Texas debates, when he flubs the debate when being set up by MSM debate producers, he comes back stronger, guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Newt and Cain did come out much better than previous debates, as they should. Only thing, smart as Newt is, he has some real bad baggage. Cain still has too big a hill to climb with zero political background, even though he sounds marvelous.
Bachmann seems to be trying to out-Paul, ronpaul. Way out of her league, God help us if she somehow got the nomination.
The other dwarfs were just pesky flies.
Cain is talking about 9% FEDERAL sales tax. After your state+local sales tax is added (mine is 8.25) you're at 17.25 percent sales tax. Cain ain't gonna make local and state sales tax go away.......
When it comes to actually doing legislation and working with people he's a waffler and his positions on some things are downright terrible.
Don't be fooled by rhetoric alone. That's what got the country into the mess with Obama.
Nwet did well tonight—I see him as VP now-—Mitt did well, Perry fumbled, Ron Paul is Ron Paul, Michele B. is out the door. Its still a long way til the election comes—anything can (and will happen)> Rudy could enter the race,Sarah P. as well maybe Trump will do something. Obama may quit (we can but hope) Michele isn’t Evita—she can’t get away with expensive jewelry and still pretend to speak for the Black Population.
Newt has always been the smartest and the best debater of them all. He is articulate and well verse on the issues. With that been said I still think Palin will out shine them all in a debate.
Perry didn’t have to veto the in-state tuition. All he had to do was not sign it and it would have become law anyway.
He wanted in-state tuition. And unlike his appointement of a Hispanic Supreme Court judge, this decision was well before his re-election.
Simply put, Perry favors illegal immigration !!!
Well, lets say that is true, then why wont he leave the Repubs and change parties and run as a libertarian.
He is a dottering old fool and getting worse by the day.
I am in agreement with you on many of these points. You expressed your thoughts well, straight to the point and hard to argue against.
Newt has been very impressive in every debate - and again tonight was no exception. I am probably going to agree with you that he won the debate. I said as much to my wife after the debate. I would have complete confidence in his Presidency - his mind, and his overall command of an indepth insight into Washington and the World, has grown to a level of statesmanship and capability at this juncture in his life that I believe he would bring America through these times and into greatness.
However, without sounding shallow, I would say that, while the media will focus on the differences and counterpoints among the candidates ... What I also see and hear is agreement among them on so many of the core values that make me proud to be a Republican!
At this time I am still leaning Romney, looking at Newt, ready for Bachmann.
And if I were a journalist for a conservative news web, and had to “box in” the debate with three one liners, I would print:
Main Headline: PERRY IMPLODES OVER ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
Sub-Title: ROMNEY CONTINUES TO HOLD HIS OWN
Adlib Bold: NEWT ENDURES TO ICONIC STATURE
... Keep the debates coming!
I agree with all of your sentiments, (especially Santorum) except for Palin. She has dallied too long- could have been a force earlier, but not now.
The “tuition” explaination missed the best reasons it passed, Perry should have done better on it, but how do you do it justice in 60 seconds?
In State tuition was granted by the Legislature in a veto proof majority. Perry had no choice.
In State tuition is only granted to students who have attended Texas High School for minimum 3 years and have personally applied for citizenship. During their 3 years in HS, them and their illegal parents, like every other Texas citizen, paid State Sales tax and Local Shool tax, whereas out of state students have not paid a dime toward Texas schools.
Its unlikely any Mexican HS student came here on their own just to go the Texas HS for 3 years and then get a relatively small tuition break (the $10000 Mutt blabbed, exgerating of course, was for University of Texas, which is expensive and which damn few regular Texas students can get into because of grades). Mostly we are talking about smaller colleges and Jr. colleges, not UT or A&M.
Not so fast. I understand that you have to pander to Hispanics in Texas but not the whole United States. This will probably be the last election this will be true.
Perry didn’t have to veto the bill. All he had to do is not sign it and it would have become law anyway.
6.8% of the electorate is Hispanic (of which the majority is Caucasian). Of that 6.8%, 38% vote R.
In 2008, 125, 225,901 people voted.
8,515,361 were Hispanic and 3,235,837 voted R.
If McCain received all of the Hispanic vote he still would have lost by 3,259,035 votes.
You nailed it. Looking forward to his next "Contract."
Well, no. It’s NOT about pandering to Hispanics for the whole US. I’m saying he did what he had to do to be a Republican governor in TEXAS. That mess follows you. As for the US Hispanic vote, Obama is terrified he’s going to lose the Hispanic vote to Perry.
He has already run as a Libertarian.and lost.
He has a very big fan base with younger voters and actually gets attention running as a Repub.
I don’t know that he is a “dottering old fool”, but he is misguided.
I pray that he is not the nominee (don’t think he will be).
The guy needs to sit down. He is bringing “his message”. We get it even if we don’t agree...now go away Ron.
lol...let’s hope not.
I see it as Newt, Cain, Bachman than anyone’s guess.
All the candidates have issues. I am tired of hearing people say, “I can’t vote for him/her, they have no chance of winning”.
Vote your conscience. You are not choosing the horse that is going to win.
The two guys I like least, which is Ron Paul and Huntsman, are both pf them giants standing next to Obama and his gang of psychotic midgets, so I feel pretty good about our line-up.
I don’t particularly care for either Perry or Romney, but the same comparison goes for them too. They roughed each other up a bit but it came off a bit like belching in church, neither one of them did themselves any good. But, then, I really didn’t like either one of them to begin with, so I’m biased. But standing next to Obama, giants.
The ones who most represent my way of thinking, naturally, I thought came off really well. That would be Bachmann, Gingrich, Cain, and Santorum. Actually, Johnson is pretty likeable on stage too. All of them rose in my estimation, and all of them articulated the kinds of things we should be standing for. (Actually, so did Ron Paul, who is usually pretty good as long as he doesn’t stray into anything remotely sounding like foreign policy).
And, yes, I like Gingrich. His performance during these debates has made it safe to say so out loud. He is the most articulate, the boldest, and the clearest-minded on stage, its what he does best. They, my four favorites, all essencially agree on principles and policies, but Gingrich is able to articulate it better than any of them.
So, anyway, those are my favorites. Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, Santorum, followed by anyone whose name doesn’t rhyme with “Obama”. Now its just a race to see which of the four are able to stay the course all the way to November.
I do not like Romney. Can’t quite put my finger on what bothers me about him, not talking about his past actions but more his persona. Something about him just plain bothers me.
I believe that is what Rush Limbaugh was getting at yesterday.
Upon going to that link (above) you see Rush advising his listeners that we will need to get the Texas electoral vote to win this election, and we will need to get the Hispanic vote from Obama to win this election against Obama.
Rush's segment on this yesterday was every informative, should one have ears to listen.
However, not considering whether or not we need to take the Hispanic vote from Obama to win in the general election, I don't think Perry is doing a good job in these debates explaining the entire immigration situation here.
He is particularly doing a bad job explaining himself on the Texas DREAM Act.
Here are a few things I wish he would at least address:
1. Perry needs to let people know that states have no right to deport. By not making people aware that a state can not, by any legal law in The U.S., deport immigrants, others may think, and they do, that he is soft. People mistakenly think Perry COULD send them back. He CAN'T, but yet too many people think that he CAN and that he just DOESN'T.
Rick Perry has to get that misguided notion straightened up if anyone is even to ever come close to understanding what he is doing or why. Like it or not, neither Perry nor the State of Texas can deport illegal immigrants. That is only, by law, a federal action.
2. Rick Perry needs to tell people from OTHER STATES that if they want in-state tuition, they can get it from their own stinkin' states! I get tired of hearing person after person complain that THEIR child from Kentucky, or Michigan, or Maine can't go to a Texas college with an in-state tuition rate for their child but yet... they complain that while their child can't, some illegal living in Texas CAN.
You know, it's ONE argument to say you don't want illegal's children getting to stay here or getting breaks. It is something totally different when they complain about not getting in-state tuition for their children for college in a state they don't even live in. They CAN get in-state tuition.. in the state where they live!
Even if Perry can't step back on his need to manage this problem we have in Texas, when he hears this complain (and I believe it was mentioned in this debate), Perry needs to look them in the eye and say "If you want in-state tuition for your child, then by golly find a college in YOUR state. This is for people who are living in Texas, and YOU don't LIVE in Texas.
Sorry for that rant. Like I said, it is one thing to talk about something that would benefit a child of an illegal immigrant. It is another thing to complain about some out-of-state teenager not getting in-state tuition in Texas when they have their OWN states they can already get in-state tuition in.
3. Regarding this same issue, I have heard a few now ignorantly claim that these children of illegal immigrants living in Texas go to college FOR FREE! That is ludicrous!
Michele Bachmann quoted the DREAM Act discount as a savings of $22,000 I believe. The UT Austin website indicates a slightly lower tuition per semester rate, but when you include fees, she was probably very close.
So since she used The University of Texas Austin as her example, let's just keep it at that here.
So a child of an illegal immigrant living in Texas for at least three years (maybe a lifetime for many) who has graduated from high school, submitted their application for American citizenship and going through that citizenship process, and having been accepted to The University of Texas Austin (one of the HARDEST universities in the country to get accepted to), gets an in-state tution rate.
Besides the fact that the student had to be GOOD enough to get into college and competitive enough to get into a major university, they are STILL going to have to pay the regular in-state tuition. These stellar students are NOT going to school for FREE.
4. I also wish Perry would point out that these students who are entering Texas colleges are in the process of working on and receiving their American citizenship. They are taking actions available through our federal government to be citizens, and the government would have track of them at that point and KNOW if they were following through their citizenship process as well (a cost of approximately $30,000.00 per person), that cost IN ADDITION TO the in-state tuition that student is paying out of his or her own (or family's) pocket.
Of all the above points, I would think that would be the one that Perry could be the most proud of getting out to people.
I live in Texas, and I understand this is not a matter of wanting to reward illegal immigrants but more a situation we have to manage so that we are not left with these folk in the gutters killing each other (and us), selling drugs, making a living through prostitution rings, etc. Texas does not want all that junk in our state! So... we MANAGE the situation we are left with because of a lax federal government that has not protected us as it should have done and has not deported the illegal immigrants that should have been deported.
I also understand what Texas politicians feel they must do to manage the situation does not come off well to many others.
I just wish Rick Perry would clear up some of the absolute nonsense that is being thrown about with this issue and what is or is not being done here - what can, and can not be done here - and what has, and has not been done here in Texas.
This is not going to be his best issue with conservatives, and some people are going to be upset with The DREAM Act regardless, but my golly, when these incorrect fallacies are mentioned or people just don't have the right information, the least he could do for himself is to defend what he can and correct all he should.
But just for me... HEY PEOPLE, IT'S NOT FREE.
I can't stand him - and tonight I noticed that he sounds just like James Carville (without the southern accent) when he talks. Ew.
“I just find it very hard to trust his rhetoric when his record is entirely another thing.”
Seriously?! His record is “entirely” another thing?
Now that I just had the rant I had in my earlier post, lol, I know I’m late in coming, but I wanted to add my congratulations to both Newt and Herman Cain for the best jobs in the debate tonight.
I wish Rick Perry would have done better. He didn’t shine tonight.
I’m going to stand here and tell you I have not given up on Rick Perry yet though. I still know who he is and what he stands for. I’m just disappointed in his debating skills so far and hope he’ll have the chance for others to see who he really is too.
For tonight, I’ll give it to Newt and Herman. They had a good night, and they both deserved it.
He is very smart.
But like a lot of smart people he is not very smart on the personal side. It’s a shame really.
I really have to wonder if Rick Perry now regrets jumping into the fray. He's been the target in all three debates and has been so occupied in fending off the punches that he's drifted off message. In the past, Perry has said that being Texas Governor is "the greatest job in the world". That post probably does seem more appealing after the past few weeks.
Are you going to make it a threesome sitting on the global warming couch with Newt and Nancy”
Excellent post!!! You covered all points well. I completely agree.
If Rick could do as well, but he is no debater.
I hope the Global Warming issue comes up, since it has been debunked.
I’d like to hear what Newt says. Could be he backs off of the issue. Many have.
Even if he holds the line..I think he would be great as a debater.
Romney and Cain won the debate. Because people are scared shitless of Obama getting another four years...Romney is going to go back to the top and be the frontrunner over the next 1-2 of polling.
Cain, might be able to get some traction...he did very well. Perry will plummet.
Thank you, berdie!
Your words gave me the courage to post my comment on another thread I found right after I posted here, that other thread being one that was specific to Perry’s immigration policies and with lots of other comments.
I appreciate your encouragement. Well, maybe you didn’t know you were encouraging me so to speak, but you did, and I needed it. It was scary coming on here after that last debate! LOL
Good luck, Casinva.
It’s a jungle out there.
There won’t be a Sarah to vote for as she isn’t going to run.
I understand that. But, reducing my federal tax down to 9% gives me a whole bunch of extra cash. Then add the elimination of capital gains and dividends, and I will be way ahead of the 9% sales tax. However I should note I am retired and do not buy a lot of stuff. So my sales tax is not huge.
You are right about local taxes....they will be here regardless and basically have a neutral effect.
“Purists will continue to sputter about his personal life but by next year most voters will be in such a desperate state they won’t care. Newt gets it and that’s what will count.”
Oh, I get it. Three wives and two or more affairs don’t matter. My, what hypocrites some Freepers are on social issues. Newt was a horny toad. Only thing that’s stopping him now is he’s too old to roam elsewhere anymore. So now he’s gotten religion, conveniently, times for his run at the presidency.
“Against Obama, its a no-brainer for me, and hes out-performing Perry. Perrys frickin awful. This was the worst of his trilogy of bad performances.”
On PMSNBC tonite, one of the Lib Dems w/inside info said that the Obama campaign now wants Perry to win the primary because they think he will be easy to defeat, especially in the debates.
Cain and Newt won. Romney came off better than Perry. What is Perry on that he loses so much steam at the end of the debates that he can’t even complete a sentence? Is his 5 Hour Energy shortchanging him by half an hour??
And is that NM gov out of the closet?
When I look at Newt’s wife I think “She would screw the married Speaker of the House in his office” and I have no respect for her.
He can handle it.
I do agree with you that his "message" is getting lost in these debates. I sure hope he somehow gets "him" out for people to really see!
I've started reading his book FED Up! As I started reading it, I was amazed how passionate he was about the founding father's view of our country! I knew Perry was a strong 10th Amendment, State's rights individual, but I never thought a whole lot about WHY until I started reading his book. That vision of what the founding fathers wanted for our country is amazing, and I'm understanding that vision through Perry's book now.
I'm sure I would have stuck with Rick Perry even after tonight's less than great (far less than great, lol) debate performance, but reading his book right now, and seeing how Rick Perry understands our country as through the eyes of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, and even Anonymous (OK, that person's quote was the beginning of Chapter 4, but it was a really good quote, lol,) not only do I have a better appreciation for America, but I so yearn for that same view. I'm not ready to give up on Perry just because of any debating skills. I'm hoping his debating skills improve, but I know his vision is already "right on".
I have heard that Rick Perry has called being the Governor of Texas the "best job in the world". It very well may be, and it probably is really nice to govern such a great state (so full of conservatives too). Somehow though, I don't think the difficulty of this will be lost on him. He's got "fight" in him still, and we'll be seeing plenty more of him, I'm sure.
Does it bother anyone that Romney supported class warfare with his $200,000 tax line to “help the middle class”?
He oozed liberal last night.
Didn't you hear? She announced her candidacy on Constitution Day. I didn't even check the news for this since I was assured it was a slam dunk.
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