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Believing in Cold Fusion and the E-Cat
Forbes Magazine ^ | Oct 30 2011 | Mark Gibbs

Posted on 10/30/2011 7:52:15 PM PDT by Kevmo

how could something like the E-Cat work in defiance of known science?
Even so, to be completely dismissive of Rossi’s claims would seem to be foolish as it is one thing to *believe* something is false based on your assumptions and quite another to be able to *prove* beyond a reasonable doubt that it is false.
So, before we look at the results of the E-Cat test on the 28th, what of Rossi and the E-Cat? Why has he been so cagey and secretive about the E-Cat and not permitted a reputable third party to conduct an objective performance test? Well, there appear to be two plausible explanations .

The first is that Rossi is honestly mistaken and he just believes the E-Cat works and produces excess energy when, in fact, it doesn’t... it’s hard to believe as Rossi has been collaborating with a well-credentialed physicist and emeritus professor from Bologna University, Sergio Focardi. A failure of this kind would be a sad and unfortunate conclusion for all concerned as they would be discredited and reviled .

The other explanation is that the whole thing is a fraud and that the E-Cat doesn’t work at all. This too is hard to swallow because there would be no obvious upside. What benefit could either Rossi or Focardi hope to gain?
Sure, there may be some money involved but I doubt whether it would be a large enough amount to justify what would be an usually elaborate and public hoax and whoever the funds came from would, almost certainly, start legal proceedings (if not retain the services of a “mechanic”) .


(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: believeorburninhell; cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr; pforeverandever; religion; scientism
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The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/30/believing-in-cold-fusion-and-the-e-cat/2/

1 posted on 10/30/2011 7:52:19 PM PDT by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Lancey Howard; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; ...

I really dislike the title of this article.

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/30/believing-in-cold-fusion-and-the-e-cat/2/


2 posted on 10/30/2011 7:53:55 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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I’m not sure of the logic:

“It’s not a scam because the scammer can’t possibly believe he can get away with the scam?”


3 posted on 10/30/2011 7:57:16 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Kevmo
I really dislike the title of this article.

Of course you would, because it points out the fact that, whatever is going on with the E-Cat, it ain't science.

4 posted on 10/30/2011 7:58:24 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." --Ronald Reagan)
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To: Kevmo
Here's the conclusion of Gibb's blog post:
So, as with the other E-Cat tests, we’re really not much better off than we were prior to the 28th. We’ve got reports that sound exciting but there’s still no real evidence. That’s not to say some data doesn’t exist but until a verifiably objective analysis is conducted by an independent third party that confirms the results match the claims there’s no real news, which is utterly disappointing.

5 posted on 10/30/2011 8:00:17 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Kevmo

FRAUD


6 posted on 10/30/2011 8:01:03 PM PDT by montyspython (This thread needs more cowbell)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

it ain’t science.
*** No, it is not science, unfortunately; it is business.
But that is not why I dislike the title of this article.


7 posted on 10/30/2011 8:04:29 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: montyspython

Now, THAT is how you drive-by on a thread.

T4BTT
Thanks for bumping the thread.


8 posted on 10/30/2011 8:05:28 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo
*** No, it is not science, unfortunately; it is business.

That's what Bernie Madhoff said.

9 posted on 10/30/2011 8:05:56 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." --Ronald Reagan)
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To: Moonman62

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
It appears that a relatively innocuous post responding to you was pulled.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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10 posted on 10/30/2011 8:06:14 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo

What is “E-Cat”?


11 posted on 10/30/2011 8:06:30 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Bernie was involved in something scientific?


12 posted on 10/30/2011 8:07:02 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: BenLurkin

13 posted on 10/30/2011 8:09:36 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: BenLurkin

It is short for Energy Catalyzer. Might as well start with Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

But hurry up & read it because it is
being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia’s deletion policy


14 posted on 10/30/2011 8:09:36 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: BenLurkin

exactly


15 posted on 10/30/2011 8:09:59 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Avoid dangerous religious cults, practice safe sects.)
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To: Kevmo
Bernie was involved in something scientific?

You just said that E-Cat is not science, it's business.

Your words.

Bernie was just engaged in business, too.

16 posted on 10/30/2011 8:10:09 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." --Ronald Reagan)
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To: BenLurkin

What is “E-Cat”?
The evil twin of lolcat.
17 posted on 10/30/2011 8:10:59 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: SpaceBar

Now, that, is photography!


18 posted on 10/30/2011 8:12:03 PM PDT by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Then why did Bernie say “No, it is not science, unfortunately”

Kevmo: No, it is not science, unfortunately; it is business.
EPU: That’s what Bernie Madhoff said.


19 posted on 10/30/2011 8:13:11 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Olog-hai

Just don’t anybody dis my girl Alpine Kat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM


20 posted on 10/30/2011 8:14:55 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Kevmo
Because he knew Andrea.

The E-Cat was going to be Bernie's Next Big Thing before he went to the Big House.

21 posted on 10/30/2011 8:16:54 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." --Ronald Reagan)
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To: Kevmo
Thermodynamics Pictures, Images and Photos
22 posted on 10/30/2011 8:21:32 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Snickering Hound

Widom-Larson Theory. Purely conventional physics.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Widom-Larsen.php


23 posted on 10/30/2011 8:26:15 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

All that back & forth just to get to a squawky punchline without a sarcasm tag.

T4BTT


24 posted on 10/30/2011 8:28:06 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo

Z8GAW


25 posted on 10/30/2011 8:29:56 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." --Ronald Reagan)
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To: Kevmo

Hardly conventional physics.


26 posted on 10/30/2011 8:52:29 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: expatpat

You got something against the Weak Nuclear Force?


27 posted on 10/30/2011 9:05:06 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo

Nonsense second point. Madoff certainly had to know that someday his scamming would catch up with him, yet he did it anyway. Rossi is no different.


28 posted on 10/30/2011 9:10:19 PM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: Kevmo
It must work; people are already stealing fuel for them.

State police have arrested three men in connection with the theft of more than 17,000 pounds of nickel

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/10/28/3-men-arrested-in-nickel-theft-at-local-steel-plant/

29 posted on 10/30/2011 10:45:29 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
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To: BenLurkin

It’s a scam currently being run by an Italian guy named Rossi, whom is promising nearly free power produced by some mysterious method he refuses to disclose or set forth for independent verification.

Kevmo is, if not on Rossi’s payroll, at least Rossi’s most annoyingly ardent cheerleader on FR.


30 posted on 10/31/2011 4:11:43 AM PDT by dinodino
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To: dinodino

And you dino are a seagull. You don’t like the threads you can block the news....


31 posted on 10/31/2011 7:19:18 AM PDT by BallandPowder
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To: Kevmo
No problem with the Weak Force
-- but the words "Weak Nuclear Force" are not a set of Words of Absolution or drops of holy water that turn an oddball speculative "paper" into conventional physics. If I write a 'paper' about fairies dancing in the woods and include the words "Gravitational Force', they don't make it conventional physics.
32 posted on 10/31/2011 7:39:15 AM PDT by expatpat
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To: Kevmo

I am going to bump it again as a FRAUD.


33 posted on 10/31/2011 8:17:27 AM PDT by montyspython (This thread needs more cowbell)
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No More FReepathons!

34 posted on 10/31/2011 8:51:15 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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Cold Fusion Scam Alert


35 posted on 10/31/2011 11:52:26 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Kevmo
But hurry up & read it because it is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia’s deletion policy

Why is deletion being considered?

36 posted on 10/31/2011 11:56:04 AM PDT by citizen (Romney and Perry and Cain! Oh my! All are leagues better than Comrade Obama.)
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To: Kevmo
it is one thing to *believe* something is false based on your assumptions and quite another to be able to *prove* beyond a reasonable doubt that it is false

The scientific method cannot be used to prove falsity beyond a reasonable doubt, as any scientist knows.

The question regarding the supposed generation of energy in excess of input with this device is not "is it false?" but rather "is it reproducible?"

Since there is no effort on the part of Mr. Rossi to subject his claims to reproduction, who the hell knows what it means?

37 posted on 10/31/2011 11:58:07 AM PDT by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

Nickel is not exactly the most expensive thing around but it is a target of so many Weak Force projects it could be the next steaming hot commodity. Not surprised to find it stolen.


38 posted on 10/31/2011 3:14:44 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: dinodino
Been wondering about your name ~ dinodino ~ is that short for Dino ~ as in the 15,900,000 references on the internet to Italian restaurants, Greek pizza joints and two-bit mob wiseguys?

So, what is it ?

39 posted on 10/31/2011 3:17:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you are trying to say with all the pizza references, but it is indeed from Dino.

I would assume from your name that you are Sunni Muslim?


40 posted on 10/31/2011 3:43:03 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: dinodino
It's a pen name I've used since I first started "writing" at the age of 18.

Why I ask is Rossi reports having run up against a little Mob problem in Italy (which is not at all unusual ~ that's their tradition and the Mob used to own the place).

So I proposed that critics of a certain cut be required to prove they aren't Mob connected ~ and that was just to see if anybody would 'fess up. Sometimes they do.

So, to be quite direct about it, are you Mob connected, and if so are you going after Rossi for free, or do you guys think he owes you something?

41 posted on 10/31/2011 3:46:47 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Kevmo; Jim Noble

Kevmo, Jim Noble hit the nail squarely on the head.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof; nevertheless, despite the extraordinary nature of Rossi’s claims, he has taken great lengths to ensure that it’s impossible for other researchers to reproduce his results.

Rossi’s actions are not the actions of a scientist, they are the actions of a scam artist.


42 posted on 10/31/2011 3:47:24 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: muawiyah

ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS!? You think I’m a mobster because I point out Rossi’s fake degree and scam history?

Believe whatever you want—if you are credulous enough to believe Rossi is legitimate, then you’ll believe anything. I do believe I have heard it all now!


43 posted on 10/31/2011 3:56:15 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: muawiyah

By the way, I just reread your post and I see another extraordinary claim, this time on YOUR part: you said that other critics of Rossi have admitted links to organized crime?

CITATIONS, PLEASE.

If you can’t back up this fantastical claim, then it will confirm my suspicion that you may have stopped taking your psyche meds.


44 posted on 10/31/2011 4:00:34 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: dinodino

I told you what I suggested ~ you continued ~ I think it’s fair to just ask it out loud. You never know and you do have “that name” ~


45 posted on 10/31/2011 4:01:41 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Well, you have the name of a murderous Arab caliph. Are you a murderous Arab caliph?


46 posted on 10/31/2011 4:04:40 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: dinodino
In my experience making sure mobsters, KKK types, etc. et al PAID what they owed the government, I found that many times such folks will admit what they do for a living or avocation.

Didn't mean to suggest that any of Rossi's critics have admitted it yet ~ but he did report having a run in with them.

47 posted on 10/31/2011 4:08:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: dinodino

I believe he was the FOURTH Caliph. He was the first one to break out of the religious BS and try to figure out how to run a country. A Jeffersonian if there ever was one in the 7th century!


48 posted on 10/31/2011 4:12:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Muawiyah I: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muawiyah_I

Not sure Jefferson would appreciate your comparison.


49 posted on 10/31/2011 4:20:07 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: Kevmo

It works. Traditional scientists will be the last to acknowledge for 3 reasons:

1. They don’t understand it so their ego prevents them from having an open mind.

2. It’s not what they teach.

3. They are on the green energy tit and need the research money.


50 posted on 10/31/2011 4:26:25 PM PDT by Diggity
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