Skip to comments.Need advice: Friend marrying broke Muslim loser [vanity]
Posted on 11/10/2011 9:50:19 AM PST by Feline_AIDS
Short version: What's the tactful way to tell a friend she's marrying a loser, and should I bother?
Long version: A friend of mine, who is nominally a conservative Christian, is engaged to her liberal Muslim boyfriend of two years. At many points along the way, I dropped subtle hints about how unwise it is for a Christian to marry a non-Christian. I'm not sure why she started dating him in the first place, but I have three guesses from observing the relationship from the beginning. 1) He pursued her relentlessly. 2) He's more masculine than most of the other guys in her graduate program. 3) She desperately wants to be married and have kids.
Her family has objected to the relationship since day 1, and I've never been supportive either. I think everyone thought she would realize what a terrible idea he was and ditch him. Unfortunately, she's also pretty depressed and not receiving treatment. The depression started when they started dating.
This guy is the definition of a loser. He's been in a graduate program for the better part of a decade, has yet to even finish the first major milestone in that degree, and the end is nowhere in sight. They both are racking up debt like nobody's business, too. He can and does pontificate on liberal talking points and Islamic apologetics. He has few friends because he is an insufferable loud-talker who must always be right.
She basically broke her father's heart when she started dating this guy, so becoming engaged must have just ripped her old man's heart right out of his chest. I'm pretty sure that once they get married, the Muslim will want to move away from her family, because I can't imagine him hanging around where he's disliked.
He's the kind of Muslim who feels allegiance to Islam over his American citizenship in a political, principled way that has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with "identity." In my mind, he's the kind of guy who would radicalize because of some "injustice" somewhere, try to force his wife to convert, and saw her head off with a dull knife if she protested. The closest I ever came to telling her to run, not walk, away from this guy was when I said I worried he'd turn her into a liberal or Muslim, which she assured me would never be the case.
So how do I tell my friend that she should ditch this guy, go see a therapist or doctor, punch herself in the face for ever entertaining such a stupid idea as marrying this fool, and then for the rest of her life listen to her parents when they disapprove of a big life decision she's making, because they're probably right? I don't think any of her other friends have ever said anything negative or cautionary about this guy.
Pros of saying something:
-Friend might not go through a terrible divorce or
-Friend might not go through a terrible beheading
-It's the right thing to do, I think
-Will likely worsen her depression
-Will certainly complicate if not ruin our friendship
There are scores of similar stories on the web. There are even a few ex-wives who are willing to speak openly about their experiences because every girl feels their prospective groom is not that kind of Muslim. A tiny percentage of them might actually be right.
Most, however, are not. While it is chic in some circles to change Christian brands for various reasons or even pick a third way like Buddhism or Judaism, Islam is not a religion you can cast aside like a nose ring.
The ultimate test should be to tell him she loves Jesus Christ and if he is devoted to her, then he will convert to Christianity as well. There are more than 300 brands to choose from and she will let him pick the brand as a compromise. Then see if he will start attending services with her.
Just this week I told my youngest daughter not only to marry a christian, but one that grew up in a christian home. I just wanted her to know how important it is...and I remind them of this often. Based on this thread, I will do it more often...
Forgot to add:
Once while drunk, he yelled at her about how badly he wanted to kill her.
Then, naturally, he cried and apologized the next day and she accepted it.
“2) He’s more masculine than most of the other guys in her graduate program.”
Which actually means he is able to bully other men around him and get away with it because American and Western men have been emasculated for the past 50 years.
As others have posted - INTERVENTION. Talk with her FAMILY and as many friends as you can and see if they care enough to do this. The chances of you getting her to see the light by yourself are NIL. An intervention is not guaranteed to work, but I think it’s your best shot. You are a true friend to do something like this.
Remember: If you see something say something...
The number for DHS is probably in the phone book.
; - )
...but it WILL end...
You are her friend. To me, being someone’s friend means doing the right thing for them, even if it might hurt your relationship. Just my philosophy, however
Tell her to ask her fiance in which religion will they raise their future children.
No advice, but I hope she wises up, because he’s going to beat the crap out of her every day starting the day they marry.
That explains it. If you loved the guy, and the family loved him, a woman would dump even Mr Perfect in a heartbeat.
My wife, Indian, had a friend that decided to do this... married a muzzie and lived in Tehran... didnt turn out well for her, wasnt long before she didnt like the “lifestyle” of submitting to his every whim... she finally got back to India... but it took a LONG time from what I understand.
The pastor at the church she attends must counsel with her that she is choosing that man over the Lord as She is commanded not to marry an unbeliever . Who would perform marriage ceremony? It would have to be a Muslim ceremony.
Her Christian friends should start to separate from her iafter her friends and pastor has counseled her that she is sinning against God. This is instructed in scripture as it may help her to come back to her senses. Poor parents having to watch this happening. Of course God can do anything so asking God to save her out of the situation is #1.
There was a great older episode of Law & Order” Criminal Intent ( just after 9/11)..the guy was a terrorist..killed her..was going to set off a suicide vest at a parade..
Anything you say will most likely be met with denials and it’ll, as you said, ruin your friendship but it’s still worth a try. Set her down where there are no destractions and where she has to listen instead of stomping off. Lay it all out there. Tell her she’s scaring the daylights out of her family and friends. Remind her her depression started with him. Ask her out right what she would do if he turned radical, if he demanded she leave the US, etc. Don’t settle for “I dunno ‘cause it’ll never happen” hogwash. Either she gives an honest answer or confront her with her continued denials. Then there’s the question of children and does she want them raised Christian and Western or be ruled by sharia. How will they be treated in school? Make a list of questions ahead of time and be prepared to be cussed out and screamed at. It’s better to have her confront the truth. Wait a couple days later and then tell her you’re there if she needs a friend because she’s going to need one if she follows through. About her dad, make her admit she’s doing this just to get back at her family for some imagined misdeed on their part or why else would she do this to them. When one marries, they aren’t marrying the spouse but the family as well. Bottom line, you’ll know you did your best.
2) He's more masculine than most of the other guys in her graduate program.
...this is a good reason why you shouldn't bother. If she leaves this one, she'll find another just like him if all she seems to care about is the "Hunk Factor."
Demand she answer if this is what she wants for her future daughters.
You beat me to it!
Scary, SCARY movie.
Show her all the passages in the Koran and other Islamic holy texts that command husbands to beat and subjugate their wives, and then show her the Biblical text that commands against being unequally yoked. If she will not listen to evidence and God’s commands, then she is getting what she asks for.
With everyone being “against” her choice (and for good reason) maybe the best approach isn’t to condemn her like everyone else is. She’s naturally going to gravitate towards him is she thinks everyone is against her except him. Can you just deal with her depression and leave him out of it for now? You can even be a little pandering by suggesting you’d hate to have her marriage start off on the wrong foot and would like her to talk to someone about her depression. Honestly, if you can get her to deal with this, it will be the one thing that could possibly save her. I’m bipolar and I can tell you depression has been responsible for more poor decisions on my part than being manic has. You just can’t think clearly when you’re depressed. If you can get her to get on a good antidepressant well before she gets married she just may be able to save herself.
Here is the verse which covers many associations, not just marriage. But it especially applies there:
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?" (2 Corinthians 6:14,15)
The Muslim is the infidel. True.
Seconding this one... If she doesn’t heed this, nothing will persuade her.
be there if it falls apart
Ask her about a common friend who went through a messy divorce. Then ask her if she had known the guy was such a scumbag before they got married would she had warned the common friend? She will reply yes, and you say well, now I am warning you. Then she understands how you feel knowing she would do the same thing.
I would certainly talk to her about the children. Muslims insist that their children must be raised as Muslims. No arguments permitted. In fact, the children of Muslims ARE automatically Muslims, like it or not.
She will have no say in raising her children. He can take them off to whatever hellhole he came from, and there will be no way to visit them, let alone get them back.
Or he can “honor kill” any of them if they displease his Muslim principles—such as any of the girls trying to date anyone. Instead, there will be arranged marriages with his first cousins back home. That is the usual procedure.
This has happened to any number of American women foolish enough to marry Muslims. If things go bad, she can always get a divorce, painful as that might be. But what about her future kids? What will happen to them?
It is more often than not the case that women want guys who will treat them badly. It is not that a man should treat a woman badly. Far from it. If a man has any sense of honor, he will treat a woman with dignity, respect, and compassion. But women don't usually want men who treat them that way. I learned this the hard way from the behavior of my ex-wife.
Have her watch “Not Without My Daughter” starring Sally Field. That is her future. When Elian Gonzalez got sent back to Cuba there were 11,000 “Letters of Concern” sent to Muslim countries by the State Department on behalf of STUPID American women whose children were taken by their Muslim Husbands.
The problem with that is they don’t show their dark side until the knot is tied. That’s why four hundred freepers cannot be wrong: watch Not Without My Daughter, lol.
He’s probably treating her like a Queen right now.
She's going to be scrambled eggs.
I dated TOO MANY non-christian women in my past. Thank GOD I never married any of them.
Now, I won't even think about asking them out unless I know they are. Missionary dating is the worst kind of dating.
Its BAD ENOUGH dating somebody who's not a christian, I CAN'T imagine dating somebody whose religion openly opposes mine.
Personally, I'd see this as she's choosing a possible husband over her God. She's willing to not only take a husband but accept his religion, which means denying hers.
This is the case when accepting ANY religion over christianity. But more so with Islam, as one must not only renounce Christ for Mohammad and Allah, but true Islam is violently opposed to christianity.
If she thinks she can enter into a relationship with him and still retain her "christianity", he WILL BE violently opposed to her.
I've been pursued by Muslim men and they can be *very* aggressive and *very* persistent. Obnoxiously so. I had to stop going some places with my friends simply so I could avoid the confrontations.
I've also told friends their marriage plans were a bad idea. The friendship lasted my honest advice, but she married him anyway (and then divorced him 4 months later, *sigh*).
You MUST tell her. It's as simple as that. It may save her life, if not now then maybe sometime in the future when a lightbulb finally turns on. She'll have the confirmation that what she sees is real.
Is her family Christian, too? If so, try to get them and any other Christian friends together and pray, pray, pray.
Watching friends make life-altering mistakes isn't easy. You may lose a good friend no matter what you do. Make sure that you have someone with whom you can talk because this will impact you. If nothing else you need a sounding board to express frustrations.
Truthfully, there is probably nothing you can say or do.
Even after the first few times he “corrects” her with a fist to the mouth, she won’t listen.
Sometimes “victims” are willing participants.
There was an article just this week on FR about them not being able to say the name of their mother. Does she want he children to never say her name? How is that love?
Also, she needs to understand to forget about ever having a Christmas tree and presents for the children. Forget about ever going home for family Christmas. No hiding Easter eggs for them at home and having to make her children sit out while classmates have egg hunts. Forget about birthdays for her children. And pray her daughters never get a Valentines card at school from a boy or have a boy lab partner. Forget helping her daughters to pick out a prom dress or sit up waiting for them to come home after a date.
Is he from here? If not give her the book “Not without my daughter”.
Typical. They always do.
They go back to Iran for a visit and, to her horror, he tells her he's decided to stay there and -- guess what? -- she has no rights. If she wants to leave, she has to leave her daughter behind. But if she stays, she has to live by Islamic law, under which women are subservient; she may be subject to beatings and a slave-like existence...
Revision (approved by CAIR):
They go back to Iran for a visit and, to her horror, he tells her he's decided to stay there. If she wants to leave, she must leave her daughter behind. If she stays, Betty must live in a culture vastly different and, she believes, very dangerous.
Amazon apologizes saying "It is certainly not our intention to malign anyone's religious faith."
My neighbor is a Muslim married to a Christian woman. He is a wonderful man who has Westernized daughters and loves my dog. But he is a Berber not an Arab. The Berbers are said to be good people.
Sally Field was threatened with death when this movie was released. It was not too long after the Salmon Rushdie ordeal.
I used to think that growing up in a Christain home would make one a more Godly person, but I have personal experiences with relationships over the years that prove otherwise.
The healing power of Jesus through the work of the Holy Sprirt can transform anyone. The most Godly woman I know is my best friend’s wife, and she did NOT come from a Christian home.
Tell her. Girl who does my nails (yes, I am a girlie-girl) married a Muslim. She finally was able to get out of the marriage but her self confidence was shot. Belittling at every turn, excluded her from interacting with his Muslim friends yet resented her other friendships, made her change her cooking and cleaning methods, brought his family over for weeks at a time where they made her feel a stranger in her own home, his money was not hers - she was forced to work for anything she wanted, he kept a Muslim girlfriend on the side and after the divorce she found out about his diverting more funds and that he already had planned to bring another woman over from his homeland and set her up in an apartment. Get her the hell out.
Yes--it is a very disturbing story.
Yes--it is a very disturbing story.
The other fine people here have covered the muzzie angle very well...and it might be too abstract or “out there” for her to believe.
*Might be* closer-to-home to get her to realize
she is in an abusive relationship:
“Once while drunk, he yelled at her about how badly he wanted to kill her.
Then, naturally, he cried and apologized the next day and she accepted it.”
Abusers offer crumbs (ego kibbles) after episodes to keep their victim(s). It also is a way to keep the victim off-balance (with the back-and-forth ping-ponging) which is necessary for the abuser.
Why isn’t she getting counseling for her depression? Does she deny she’s depressed?
Also, intertwined with this train wreck is her co-dependency. I know alot of people who have been helped tremendously by this book:
(but usually AFTER the damage...sigh)
Sussing out the family source of her low self esteem might help in eliminating that person from any planned ‘intervention’ - which I agree with.
In this case, being a muz is an ADVANTAGE, because the notified authorities will take that much more interest.
I see this as trying to save your friend’s life.
For you, I don’t see a downside to doing all this stuff beforehand. I worry about the drama-quotient in your life, being attacked YOURSELF, for instance...for “daring” to mess with (protect) HIS possession. So, if you “lose” the friendship for trying...God’s will I suppose, to protect YOU. (Unless you relish the idea of 3am calls, door knocks in the middle of the night, trips to the jail - or morgue...no kidding)
Do all you can do, then detach.
What would a real friend do? That thing parents do — speak the Truth, expect them not to listen, but expect them to hear your words, somewhere deep inside, and know that one day those words of Truth you spoke will set them free.
The thing I’ve seen in these marriages is that the Muslim husband eventually takes/ tries to take the children to his sand-pounding country and the wife can never get her children back. That is what I’d be most concerned with. Besides the obvious.
If you think he’ll try to get her away from her family, then he will also get her away from her friends...you included. So, I wouldn’t worry about saying something that would jeopardize your friendship, he’s probably going to ruin your friendship anyway.
How about just confronting her with the facts of him being a loser, without bringing his religion into it? You wouldn’t want her marrying this loser guy whatever his religion or ethnicity, so don’t allow his being muslim to cloud the fact that he bad news.
Maybe her family can do an intervention and get her some therapy for her depression which might help her see this guy more clearly and what her future might look like with him & without him.
Um....tell her that “her” children won’t be “hers”.
Give her a copy of “Not Without My Daughter”.
By all means tell her she is making a HUGE mistake. Have her think about any children she may have. He will insist they be raised Muslim. I have a friend who married a muslim and he changed into a monster as soon as they were married, took their kids to the middle east, etc. She had to live as a muslim for years then just could not take it anymore.
You will have to tell her the truth, even if it destroys your relationship. The Biblical approach is that once you have lovingly pointed out the sin in this, the onus is upon the other person to accept or reject you and your message. You are not responsible for the outcome.
If, however, you do NOT discuss this with her, and her life is destroyed because of it, your ARE responsible.
I have been in that position, and it is abysmally difficult, so I am not being insensitive to your plight. If she goes through with this, the muslim boyfriend will remove her from your fellowship (that’s what they do...isolate and dominate), so you will lose her either way.
I agree with the poster who said “Offer her a place of Refuge”. That is the MOST Christian Thing you can do, AFTER you have told her that what she is doing may kill her body as well as her soul.
So where does that leave me? I’m a convert. :(
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