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To: spetznaz

All good points. But my article is about not having to deal with personal combat but about the quickest way to bring an assailant down if you just reach into your pocket or purse. That’s why I suggested stun guns/tasers. Touch them and they go down. Really doesn’t need much training. My “Blaster Knuckle” can easily be pulled out of my pocket and turn on and ZAP the prick. Just gotta know when to reach for it, and that’s a judgment call no matter what defense mechanism you hav.e

Okay, so you don’t have time to reach towards your stun gun, how many people are going to spend all that time to learn hand-to-hand combat? Not many. So, it’s up to them to recognize the threat and pull their deterrent, whatever it may be, including a gun.

Absolutely agree that pepper spray (mace) can be worthless depending on the size and determination of the attacker, not to mention wind factors. However, if you read above, there is now a pepper spray formula in gel form that shoots out like wasp deterrent. I like that.

Seems there are a number of deterrents, but for the average citizen, martial arts are not the answer due to life time constraints. Just trying to give good citizens some options.


69 posted on 11/11/2011 12:22:12 AM PST by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet; ADemocratNoMore; Brad's Gramma; The Cajun; real saxophonist
Thanks A-N-Vet. I get it now - you are telling FReepers about viable alternatives to guns. That's good and commendable. I also agree that stun guns can be quite effective, and that martial arts (to be more specific, reality-based self-defense systems like Krav Maga, Hagganah and Kapap) are not for everyone. Agree 100% with your points, and I also see how they can save someone's life.

I do however wish people would spend time honing their level of situational awareness. It is sad just how unaware most people are. Simple awareness can save someone from the vast majority of problems - especially when mixed with simple common sense. Don't drive to certain places at certain times. Don't leave the bar late at night by yourself when you are totally wasted. Don't invite the guy you just met (for ladies) a week ago to your house to watch a movie with you. Walk with confidence and project an air of assertiveness (most predators tend to attack those they think make good victims - whether it is a lion attacking the sick old wildebeest, or some mugger looking at the person walking down the street with earphones on totally unaware of the environment). Don't be too predictable. Ensure the locks are not only safe but the door is sturdy too (I was always amazed when I was in the US how the doors were flimsy).

Now, to that add mindset. Even with the stun guns it is important for someone to train using them under stressful conditions. One cannot just buy a taser or some pepper spray and put them in their pocket or handbag. Buy an extra one (or two) and use them. Maybe have a friend wear one of those padded suits they use for paintball and have them rush you. In many cases it will be revealed that the person will not be able to reach in time to the attack. What will that do? It will make the person mentally adjust their reaction protocols, and when it happens again they will be better prepared. Do that 5 to 10 times and I guarantee you that if/when a perp does try to attack you that your use of the stun gun/pepperspray/etc will work! However, most people will just buy the taser or the can of pepper spray, put it in their vehicle or handbag, and that's that. An event occurs, and they are not even able to use it.

Case in point: I was watching one of my favorite guilty-pleasures (a show called Cheaters where a camera crew busts cheating spouses), and the camera crew creeped up to this couple (both older citizens), whereby the lady started screaming (probably thinking it was muggers), took out her mace, and started spraying all around her. Everywhere but towards the camera men. It was actually quite hilarious ...she was spraying herself and her male friend, and even then it did not affect them (I think the shock was so much that the pepper spray did not even affect the lady who seemed around 50 or so). If she had a taser she would probably have fired it at a tree or the ground or her foot! She had bought a weapon, put it in her bag, never practiced with it (at least not under stressful situations), and thus all she managed to do was spray some mist around and get most of it on herself before the camera crew disarmed her. She then started saying that if she had her gun she could have shot someone - no, she wouldn't have! She would have reacted the same. It reminds me of that YouTube video where some guy with a revolver tries to shoot a lawyer for some reason. The lawyer is hiding behind a tree, the shooter is 3 feet away, and the shooter doesn't score a real hit - runs out of bullets - and then walks away before he is tackled! In his mind, before the shooting, the shooter had seen how it would progress. Walk up, shoot the lawyer, end of story. However, what happened is he went through an adrenalin surge/dump, his fine motor skills disappeared (he was not using only gross motor skills), and he couldn't even hit a lawyer standing 3 feet away with 6 shots!

Training under stressful conditions is imperative. Whether or not it is your fists, your gun, your knife, a can of pepper spray, or a taser system. Without that training, which most people do NOT do, all they are doing is deluding themselves. Acquiring a false sense of security when the fact is that they are still vulnerable.

People also do not consider what happens if your defense fails. For instance, let's say I attack someone. The person pulls out a contact stun gun. To use it they have to make contact with me - however if they can make contact with me I can make contact with them. Now, I am not the baddest person on the planet (not even close - there are some baaaad folk out there), but you probably wouldn't want me to get too close to you. Others haven't. However, most people always focus on what they are going to do to the other person (e.g. I will take my gun out and shoot them, I will take the pepper spray out and blast them, I will take out my taser and shoot the electrified barbs into their chest on a dark wet night when the guy just popped out from behind unannounced and rushed me), BUT they do not consider what the other person is doing. By the time a perp attacks you he has already marked you as a victim. That is for a reason. Maybe you look weak, maybe you look vulnerable, maybe you are so intent on something you are experiencing tunnel vision, maybe you are listening to headphones. In most cases you are a victim due to something you are doing or not doing. In most cases the perp, like any predator, will not announce themselves. It will happen suddenly, unexpectedly, and quickly. It will be a shock. Unless the person has trained (and trained under a high pressure environment) I will bet you that most people will not even be able to clear the pepper spray, taser, knife, handgun from its holster, let alone aim it accurately and use it. Hence the rule of 21 feet when a person with a gun is facing a person with a knife. Within 21 feet the person with a knife has a chance if the gun is holstered. 21 feet is quite some distance.

Personally, if I was asked to choose between a) my years of training or b) my situational awareness, the answer would be 100% situational awareness. Every single time. With situational awareness/mindset I have a chance. Without it I am just a victim who happens to have training/a knife/a taser.

There is a website called http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com that tries to dispel a lot of the myths of self defense (self defense with fists, a gun, a knife, tasers, sprays, etc), as well as to show what is proper. First class website unlike many that just pump out cr@p. They have an article on what is the best weapon for self defense. The link is shown below:

Best Weapon for Self-Defense?

A very nice article (that website is filled with very nice articles). Anyways, here is a brief excerpt but I would recommend for FReepers to check out the full article:

My prallel of 'the greater the distance the less you have to worry about defense' has a subclause. That is 'the closer the distance, the MORE you have to worry about defense."

And by defense, I do mean defense.

Distance weapons rely on distance for your safety. If you shoot someone across the room, there is absolutely nothing to prevent him from shooting back. Your safety is dependant on your bullets, his excitement, etc., screwing up his aim. If it hasn't then you are going to eat lead too.

What's more, is 'distance equals time.' If the guy has a knife and you've shot him from a distance, you're relying on the time that it take for him to cover the distance to you for that bullet to take effect. In both cases your safety is entirely dependant in what you did effecting your attacker BEFORE he can effectively counter attack. That whether it is shoot back with accuracy or close the distance to injure you.

I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Simply stated, most so-called self-defense items have NO defensive capabilities at all. By this I mean while they may stop an attacker from continuing with more attacks, they can NOT protect you from an attack in progress. If a guy is charging you, a taser, spray or a bullet will NOT stop his forward momentum. He will still reach you and proceed to do damage to you (e.g. if you taser someone and he slams into you, there's a good chance you'll lose your triggering.) Now you have a guy up close and eating your face.

That's the fundamental weakness of ANY distance weapon. If the guy gets close enough to negate the advantage of range, they are useless to prevent damage to you. From a defensive standpoint, you cannot block an incoming attack with these items. Your only hope is to create enough pain and damage to the individual that he is overcome BEFORE the damage he does to you overwhelms you.

The bottomline is the closer an attacker is the less you need to be worrying about what you are going to do to him and more about keeping him from doing to you. Don't fall for the old lie that the 'best defense is a good offense.' Because the closer you are to an attacker the more likely that attitude will turn it into trading damage contest. Actual defense against a closing attacker is THE most overlooked aspect of this entire business. People are too fixated on what they are going to do to their attacker to make him stop attacking rather than what they need to do to keep his attack from landing. Gee, you both go to the hospital or the morgue, that ain't what I call a win.

Take these three points and apply them to what you are asking. Because these elements are the realities surrounding this topic. To tell you the truth, it is really far less about what is the 'best' item than it is knowing when it is time to use each.

79 posted on 11/11/2011 1:19:27 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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