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**RIFLE VANITY** Long-Distance Shooting and Hunting
12/17/2011 | Moi

Posted on 12/17/2011 9:34:30 AM PST by rabidralph

I am looking to buy a rifle that would serve two purposes: primarily a long-distance shooter and secondarily a larger game taker downer :-)

I like to shoot beyond 600 yards and I want a rifle to suit that purpose. From info I've gathered, I should get a larger-calibered rifle, with at least a 24" barrel. I would like to keep the rifle below 10lbs because I also want to hunt with it some day. I am interested in hunting elk and moose, eventually. So I am thinking of a .308.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Outdoors; Sports
KEYWORDS: banglist; firearms; hunting; reloading; rifle; shooting
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To: macquire; rabidralph
Macquire: "Taking shots at animals beyond 250 - 300 yards is not good sportsmanship. You are not a sniper. You are not at “war” with wildlife. [snip] perhaps you just like to play sniper..."

What about the following set phrase do you not understand?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,

151 posted on 12/17/2011 2:51:18 PM PST by bvw
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To: ottbmare; rabidralph
Here we go. I love it when someone posts one of these “What kind of gun should I get?” vanities. Lots of fun—I learn so much. Let’s see if we can make it one of those 500 post threads!

Hubby and I went to the Gun Show of the West today and you should have seen the lines to get in! It was packed shoulder to shoulder with people buying guns, ammo, and brass! We could barely see the exhibits for all the people!

It was so heartwarming to see CA arming themselves! LOL

152 posted on 12/17/2011 2:56:17 PM PST by CAluvdubya
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To: rabidralph

from Wiki-
“One day, Zaytsev’s commanding officer called him up and pointed at an enemy soldier in a window 800 meters away. Zaytsev took aim from his standard-issue Mosin-Nagant rifle, and with one shot, the soldier was down. In less than a few moments, two other German soldiers appeared in the window, checking their fallen officer. Vasily fired two more shots, and they were killed.”


153 posted on 12/17/2011 2:58:30 PM PST by seton89 (Starve the Beast)
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To: yarddog
Major John L. Plater, US army , writer of the book "ultimate Sniper" relates the story on pages 375 and 376.

Major Konig was the german sniper sent to kill the russian. Zaitsev and his spotter Nikolai Kulikov were stalking the german along with a communist political officer who was there to witness the historic event, and was wounded.

It was the next day when Zaitsev offed the german after waiting all day to spot the scope reflection.

Zaitsev was credited with 242 kills during the battle of stalingrad, and eventually had accounted for 400 kills during the war.

154 posted on 12/17/2011 2:58:33 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Thanks. One of my friends did mention he thought the quality of Remingtons wasn’t what it used to be. I am not knowledgable enough to pick out a used action and know that it’s great quality to build around. All my other friends do build their own but I’d rather not bug them with my ignorance. I do appreciate all the advice and hearing why someone prefers one brand, caliber, spec over another. It’s been a big help to me. You will not see me at Camp Perry any time soon :-)


155 posted on 12/17/2011 2:59:24 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: going hot

Plater = Plaster


156 posted on 12/17/2011 3:00:10 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: papertyger

LOL! Thanks. I can see that I am way out of my element.


157 posted on 12/17/2011 3:01:11 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: CAluvdubya

Thanks. I really enjoy the ARs.


158 posted on 12/17/2011 3:04:08 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: IMR 4350
Funny, I have had the same result in my 7x 57 Ackley improved. It's an awesome load. Moves a 150 Gr. Ballistic tip, out to around 2900 FPS, using a moderate load and is most accurate in the middle range of the load chart.

H-4831 works better for me with the 168 Gr. and dip charging at the bench though.

159 posted on 12/17/2011 3:04:39 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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To: Glennb51
Have you all seen this special from Nosler?
160 posted on 12/17/2011 3:07:22 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: fudimo

Very interesting site. Thanks!


161 posted on 12/17/2011 3:10:40 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: going hot

The story is false.

There used to be a poster on FR who was very knowledgeable on military matters. He posted his opus and said he was never coming back to FR. I was just about to do the same thing but FR got rid of the ones who were banning conservative posters and I am glad I stayed.

I wish he would come back but he said he never would and was true to his word.

This guy, who a lot of people here remember well, mentioned that he actually met Zaitsev in Russia. He said as a matter of fact, that Zaitsev himself never claimed the story was true. It was finally proven when after the war, German records showed there was no such man as Major Koenig from the German Sniper School.

The story has been published as fact in many articles and probably historical documents, but it was not true. I can’t blame anyone who believes it as I was one of them.


162 posted on 12/17/2011 3:13:21 PM PST by yarddog
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To: rabidralph
LOL! Take one of those shooting-nut friends you have along with you and look for an older used 700, with good stock, barrel and action, ask the dealer to let you have it appraised by a gun smith. You can have that “good old days” quality at a bargain price, and really the older one will do everything the brand new one will. Probably better!

Today, you see all that trademark camo paint on most new rifles, etc, all of which has led to less attention to quality machine works. Instead, they cover it up the crude workmanship with lots of heavy paint and cosmetics.

what ever you chose to do, have lots of fun doing it! That's what it is all about in the long run. And if anarchy does break out, you can take your attackers out before they even know you are there. (Priceless)

Have a great day, and thanks for the great thread FRiend!

163 posted on 12/17/2011 3:15:48 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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To: bvw

Thank you.


164 posted on 12/17/2011 3:15:57 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: CAluvdubya

LOL! Here in Wisconsin, we just got concealed carry and the gun stores are busier than ever.


165 posted on 12/17/2011 3:17:39 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: Melinator

I have a father-in-law that can’t seem to put a deer down hard at 25 yds. I know other people who simply shouldn’t take a 100 yd shot.

Between the ages of 15-25, I shot a .25-06 that shot much inside minute of angle. If my rounds didn’t overlap at 100 yds, I considered it a flier. My rifle skills were excellent. I shot prairie dogs at 500 yd and more than once I opted to shoot a standing deer in the upper throat at 200-400 yds (because I didn’t like a messy field cleaning job.

I never took a shot at a deer in excess of 500 yds, but I did pass on shooting a prone shot at a large buck that was laying down. To this day, I’m very certain that I would have hit heart and lungs.

So, what is an appropriate shot? One that the rifle and you can reasonably make with high confidence. I’m not as confident now as I used to be, but I wouldn’t hesitate on a 400 yd steady shot on heart and lungs.


166 posted on 12/17/2011 3:17:39 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

I’ve pretty much settled on the 150 gr myself.

Anything under 150 can make a pretty good mess on the exit side.


167 posted on 12/17/2011 3:20:20 PM PST by IMR 4350
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Info on the rifle is at this website:

http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml


168 posted on 12/17/2011 3:22:41 PM PST by 2nd Bn, 11th Mar (The "p" in Democrat stands for patriotism.)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Great idea! I will talk to the gun nut, who works in a gun shop. Have a great evening!


169 posted on 12/17/2011 3:25:53 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Thanks, but my firearms expertise is more country boy skills, primarily focused on putting something tasty on the table.

Certainly enjoy learning tech facts from folks who know more.


170 posted on 12/17/2011 3:28:08 PM PST by X-spurt
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Thanks, but my firearms expertise is more country boy skills, primarily focused on putting something tasty on the table.

Certainly enjoy learning tech facts from folks who know more.


171 posted on 12/17/2011 3:28:13 PM PST by X-spurt
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To: macquire
" Taking shots at animals beyond 250 - 300 yards is not good sportsmanship.

You are not a sniper. You are not at “war” with wildlife.

600 yards is the outside limit for trained USMC “Dedicated Marksman” with some of the best most expensive & excellent equipment.

Well said, and thanks for saying it. The most accomplished deer hunter I ever knew, who btw happened to be one of the finest gentlemen I ever knew, was a guy from Beckham County in western Oklahoma - wide-open rifle hunting country for the most part. His numero uno hunting rifle was a Remington model 742 in .243 Winchester. I once asked him what was the longest range he'd ever killed a deer at, and his answer was "Oh, I don't know... hundred and fifty yards, maybe two hundred..."

Sounds like the OP is a bit new to the rifle world and just needs to ask the right questions, which he seems to be doing. He'll probably end up needing more than one rifle, which of course is a good thing.

He might like a good bolt gun in .260 Remington to start with, JMHO...

172 posted on 12/17/2011 3:38:57 PM PST by OKSooner (Today's new tagline. Tomorrow's new tagline pending.)
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To: rabidralph
Blackstone the English legal commentator remarked on English game laws, Vol. II, p. 412, "that the prevention of popular insurrections and resistance to government by disarming the bulk of the people, is a reason oftener meant than avowed by the makers of the forest and game laws."

By inference your long-distance rifle hunting does serve the reason stated in the Second. What good is a citizen militia against a sniper, unless the citizens themselves have trained to snipe, and as Blackstone suggests, that means training during game hunting.

173 posted on 12/17/2011 3:40:05 PM PST by bvw
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To: rabidralph
Ping to post #172.

Enjoy. Use eye and ear protection at the range. Save your empties and start reloading when you've got about 500 rounds of brass.

After you've learned some stuff take a non-shooter shooting with you, but never an arrogant non-shooter.

174 posted on 12/17/2011 3:41:21 PM PST by OKSooner (Today's new tagline. Tomorrow's new tagline pending.)
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To: Cuttnhorse

Sorry, pounds not rounds.


175 posted on 12/17/2011 3:59:58 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: rabidralph

>>...I like to shoot beyond 600 yards and...I am interested in hunting elk and moose, eventually. So I am thinking of a .308...<<

No offense, but your post is incredibly naive to the point of being suspect as a troll.

Would you share how/what led you to believe a .308 is suitable for elk and moose!? As for the long distance shooting, I hope that’s just targets and not game at those distances.


176 posted on 12/17/2011 4:12:05 PM PST by jaydee770
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To: OKSooner

Thanks. I enjoy shooting very much and I’m looking forward to learning more.


177 posted on 12/17/2011 4:13:01 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: jaydee770
Yes, I've been on FR since 2000 and I'm a troll. LOL!

Thanks for my second biggest laugh on this thread.

178 posted on 12/17/2011 4:28:20 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: IMR 4350

I would still use it for the 06 but I no longer own one, I have a .300 Winmag now. I miss the 06 though and may buy another one soon, since I used the 06 for most of my life(69 now). The 300 kicks a little too much for my tastes, but it sure drops a deer in it’s tracks:)


179 posted on 12/17/2011 4:59:48 PM PST by calex59
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To: jaydee770; rabidralph
No offense, but your post is incredibly naive to the point of being suspect as a troll.

Would you share how/what led you to believe a .308 is suitable for elk and moose!?

Excuse me but your reply to rabidralph shows that you are the naive one. 30-06 and 308 have been dropping Elk and Moose for years. In fact when I was a boy I knew Colorado Elk hunters who used a .30-30 with the 170 grn bullet and killed elk every year with them.

As for his shooting at 600 yards he has already explained that and if you had really read his original comment you would know he wasn't talking about taking game at 600 yards.

180 posted on 12/17/2011 5:04:19 PM PST by calex59
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To: rabidralph

Remington 700 in .308

And get thee hence to http://www.stormmountain.com and take their Long Range Rifle courses.


181 posted on 12/17/2011 5:05:50 PM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: rabidralph

FWIW I’ve done 1000 yd shots with a pencil-thin 19” .308 Steyr Scout (with normal Leupold 10x scope).


182 posted on 12/17/2011 5:07:38 PM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: yarddog
Well, your freind was no doubt the expert on the fact, and who am I to even consider casting aspersions..

There is a small snippet you might find interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3QsBUoX2aQ

183 posted on 12/17/2011 5:08:42 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: going hot

We will just have to disagree.

It is not that important who is right or not. I would watch the video but I have a dial-up modem and it would take forever.

One thing we probably can agree on is that every American has the right to own and use a good accurate and powerful rifle if they want to.


184 posted on 12/17/2011 5:18:04 PM PST by yarddog
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To: 2nd Bn, 11th Mar
I've been feeding mine the same bullets. I'm down to my last box of 100 and thinking of switching to Nosler. Their HP pistol bullets have made a believer out of me both on accuracy and cost (.45 & 9mm).

Rifle bullets cost about same at Midway.

Sierra Nosler

185 posted on 12/17/2011 5:42:37 PM PST by Errant
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To: ctdonath2
Thanks for the info and the link to Storm Mt. I am learning the basics of riflery, through the Appleseed Project. So I want to build off of that knowlege and learn more about marksmanship, armory and reloading for my own edification.
186 posted on 12/17/2011 5:44:09 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph
They have so many to choose from...

LOL, Hence the need to own more than one! ;)

187 posted on 12/17/2011 5:44:17 PM PST by Errant
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To: Errant

LOL. Yep. I hope to reach a point where I will buy two brands of the same caliber but I’m not there yet.


188 posted on 12/17/2011 5:47:41 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: jaydee770; rabidralph; calex59; ottbmare
LOL

>>No offense, but your post is incredibly naive to the point of being suspect as a troll.<<

Understand. Perfect timing. :)

189 posted on 12/17/2011 6:11:52 PM PST by Daffynition ( *Socialism, has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore it*)
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To: rabidralph
You're not going to go wrong with a .308 unless you're hunting moose in bear country. Even then, autoloaders with large magazines are available. lol

Certainly for your edumacation, regular practice and shooting targets at long range, the .308 is a lot more fun.

Myself, I'd just as soon take my lever action .45 colt with homemade bullets and buckhorn sights to the 100 yd range as well.

Good shootin'

:)

190 posted on 12/17/2011 6:14:31 PM PST by Errant
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To: SampleMan

If you have the proper equipment and the skills to use it I see no problem taking game at long range. I was at the range today speaking with a friend whose father 68 yrs old took his elk at a little over 1000 yards. A neighbor of mine shoots coyotes at 800 yards to keep his skills honed. Back East people would never consider a long shot because there just aren’t many places to do it or develop the skills needed to shoot the distance. Out here a person can practice at 1000 yards in their yard as I sometimes do. This season there were 9 antelope taken on the property here at distances of 500-1000 yards, one was taken with a 7mm SAUM pistol.


191 posted on 12/17/2011 6:18:17 PM PST by fudimo
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To: rabidralph
Give your .270 more respect.

There is a thing on FR called caliber creep. What ever cartridge you like the next poster will up it as necessary.

I've hit Mule Deer at 250 yards in the North Dakota Badlands. A .270 hole in one side of the chest, mangled up insides, and a fist size hole blown out the other side.

Your money would be better spent on quality glass.

192 posted on 12/17/2011 6:37:57 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: jaydee770; Daffynition; rabidralph
...your post is incredibly naive to the point of being suspect as a troll.

HAHAHAHAHA! CAN I CALL 'EM OR NOT?! WHAT DID I SAY? (See my post 63.) Oh, man, it's good to be right. Didn't realize we were going to have to wait 'til post 176 until one Freeper accused another of being a troll, but it finally happened, just as I predicted. I love being right. (sigh of contentment)

Okay, the next thing you have to do is trade insults with the other guy for about 20 posts each. Hit "abuse" a few times and accuse each other of being secret Romney supporters, 9-11 Truthers, illegal immigrant supporters, and soft on Islam. When the mods tell you to knock it off, tell them something really rude and get banned for a few days. At that point you can either cool off and apologize or you can join the Clown Posse and make snarky bitter remarks about JimRob.

heheheheh. Thanks for the heads up, Daffynition. You made my evening.

193 posted on 12/17/2011 6:42:59 PM PST by ottbmare (off-the-track Thoroughbred mare)
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To: ottbmare
I didn't ask your permission privately, so I'll do it publicly: Is it okay to post your FRisdom on my homepage? I did already, without askin'. I happen to think it is genius! You made my day and thanks for saying so succinctly, what is a truism, like night follows day.!:)


194 posted on 12/17/2011 6:54:08 PM PST by Daffynition ( *Socialism, has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore it*)
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To: ottbmare

LOL. I at first wondered if the poster was kidding with me after reading your #63. But I guess not. Pure genius! And there have been a few insults along the way as well. Then we’re all friends again at the next Republican Inauguration.


195 posted on 12/17/2011 7:02:47 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: Last Dakotan

Thanks for the insight. I do love my .270.


196 posted on 12/17/2011 7:05:53 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph

I highly recommend you take up reloading as a hobby, too. There are a number of benefits not the least of which is you can build the most accurate cartridges possible for your rifle of choice.

RCBS sells a great starter kit. I bought one about ten years ago and I still use it. There’s nothing like the satisfaction of obtaining long range accuracy with home rolled ammunition.

Then there is the money you’ll save doing it.


197 posted on 12/17/2011 7:45:00 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

Thank you. My friends have encouraged me to learn reloading, as well as several people on this board. I do plan on purchasing the RCBS kit at some point.


198 posted on 12/17/2011 7:57:27 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph

Start saving your brass. It’s the most expensive part of the cartridge. Pick up range brass whenever it’s permitted and you get permission to do so. I’ve amassed several thousands of cases for the calibers I shoot regularly that way.

Once I volunteered to sweep up my Police Dept range for free if they let me keep the brass. I ended up with a couple thousand .40 caliber cases that way.


199 posted on 12/17/2011 8:17:54 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Errant

I have not shot Noslers from this rifle. Besides the Sierra, I tried Berger and Hornady. I’ll have to try some. My current hunting load for .280 Remington uses the Winchester/Nosler CT 140 grain SBT and it is very deadly.


200 posted on 12/17/2011 8:30:37 PM PST by 2nd Bn, 11th Mar (The "p" in Democrat stands for patriotism.)
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