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Vivid new Battle of the Bulge photos offer never-before-seen look....
Dailymail ^ | 12-17-11

Posted on 12/17/2011 5:48:40 PM PST by InvisibleChurch

Breath taking pics...

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: battleofthebulge
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Comment #101 Removed by Moderator

To: Jedidah

I still have my father, he is 86. He missed the bulge by 2 weeks.

He farms. He worked every day until a year ago. He had quadruple bypass surgery. He was not out long for that, but lately he spends more time with my mother. She has dementia, but they are still lovebirds after 65 years. They met when he stopped in DC on his way to Europe. They wrote throughout the war. When he was on his way home after being discharged he called my grandfather to wire money for a train ticket to my mother. He did. When she arrived in Texas they were married in my grandparents dining room.

He never talked much about the war. Just settled down to farm again and to live his life in peace. That is the way it was and is here.

Pray that it remains that way, but the way things are now. Well we won’t go there.


102 posted on 12/17/2011 8:33:24 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: CatherineofAragon

“...I always look at the faces to see if one of them might be him.”

My dad fought in the Ardennes in the Battle of the Bulge. He was a heavy mortarman. When I see pictures of that battle, I also wonder if I might be looking at my dad. It brings tears to my eyes when I see those pictures. I am so proud of him.


103 posted on 12/17/2011 8:38:09 PM PST by mouske
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To: Jedidah

Perhaps w/ the 410th Bomb Group? I’ve been blessed to meet a few of those gents at recent reunions, wonderful collection of memoribilia and pictures they have. Just this fall,I finally got take a drive over the area - from Utah to Bastogne - and on the way back to Paris, dropped by Coulommiers Aerodrome, where they flew from in Dec ‘44. Perhaps your Dad slept right where I was looking. A salute and a tear.


104 posted on 12/17/2011 8:38:40 PM PST by GopherIt
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To: Texas Fossil

Pray that it remains that way, but the way things are now. Well we won’t go there.


World War II didn’t touch the continental United States. I no longer see us protected. I fear for our future.


105 posted on 12/17/2011 8:43:16 PM PST by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: InvisibleChurch
My wife's Father did not fight at the Battle of the Bulge but was in a unit in the area.

Photobucket

106 posted on 12/17/2011 8:44:30 PM PST by packrat35 (Heartless)
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To: GopherIt; jmacusa

9th Air Force, 387 Bomb Group, stationed at Clastres, France, later at Maastricht.

http://387bg.com/387th%20Bombardment%20Group%20-%20Distinguished%20Unit%20Citation.htm

I have the photos he took of camp that winter. Makes you shiver just to look at them.

I find it ironic that his great-great-great grandfather endured the brutal winter of 1777 with Washington’s army at Valley Forge. History repeating itself.


107 posted on 12/17/2011 9:28:09 PM PST by Jedidah
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To: momtothree

“My husband’s Uncle was there. He told family members that he was never so cold in his life and hoped he would never be cold again.”

Heard the same thing from a vet I used to work with years ago. He was at the Battle of the Bulge. He and two fellows got separated from thier company during battle. He said all they had to eat for three days was an onion and damned near froze to death (on top of being shot at). He said that was the coldest he’d ever been.


108 posted on 12/17/2011 10:02:47 PM PST by myheroesareDeadandRegistered
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To: momtothree

“My husband’s Uncle was there. He told family members that he was never so cold in his life and hoped he would never be cold again.”

Heard the same thing from a vet I used to work with years ago. He was at the Battle of the Bulge. He and two fellows got separated from thier company during battle. He said all they had to eat for three days was an onion and damned near froze to death (on top of being shot at). He said that was the coldest he’d ever been.


109 posted on 12/17/2011 10:02:59 PM PST by myheroesareDeadandRegistered
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To: central_va
The first photo in the UK Daily Mail shows M36 tank destroyers (M4 tank chassis) with the 90mm gun. One M36 has slid off the icy road and into the ditch. The M36 had an open topped turret and thinner armor than the M4 Sherman. However, its 90mm M3 gun allowed it to engage and defeat the heavy German armor (Tiger and Panther).

The problem with Army Ground Force's doctrine at the time was the Tank Destroyer Corps was to engage the German tanks while the Armored Corps was to provide infantry and recon support. In reality, the TD arm was employed like tanks and suffered large numbers of casualties and infantry support tanks were called to fight German tanks more often than not. The tank destroyers had the guns to kill the enemy tanks, but not the protection; the tanks had the protection but not the guns to kill the German tanks.

The US Army's Armor Branch was not equipped with a tank that could meet and defeat the German tanks on a level playing field until March 1945. In January 1945 20 T26E3 Pershing heavy tanks were shipped to the ETO for the attacks into Germany.

Called the “Zebra Mission”, these tanks were equally split between the 3rd and 9th Armored Divisions. Ten T26E3’s went to the 3rd AD, 33rd Armored Regiment, and 10 went to the 9th AD, 67th Armored Regiment. All 20 were engaged in combat operations by March 1945. At the end of hostilities on 8 May 1945, there were 310 Pershings in Europe but only the first 20 Pershings took part in real fighting.

The T26E3 (reclassified M26) in March 1945, weighed 46 tons; had a road speed of 25 mph; a 500 hp gasoline V8 engine; a crew of 5; a 90mm M3 main gun with 70 rounds, a .50 machine gun with 550 rounds and two .30 machine guns with 5,000 rounds; operational range was 100 miles.

110 posted on 12/17/2011 10:50:53 PM PST by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: jmacusa
No, it is not the M10 Gun Motor Carriage (aka “Wolverine” tank destroyer) with the 3-inch M7 gun. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M10_Wolverine

This is an M10 or M10A1 conversion to the M36 GMC (aka “Slugger”) with the 90mm M3 gun. The major recognition point is the gun mantlet and turret shape. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M36_tank_destroyer

The M36 shared the same weak armor and lack of overhead protection as the M10-series, but its M3 gun could take on and defeat all marks of German tanks.

111 posted on 12/17/2011 11:06:47 PM PST by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: potlatch

Wow! Those pictures are breathtaking!

Do you know what went through my mind as I was viewing them? I surely hope we don’t have to count on the OWSers or Ron Paul in the future.

I still believe this country has enough young people who love this country and want to defend us, though.

Thank you SO much for the ping! It’s so good to “see” you!

Merry Christmas, potlatch!


112 posted on 12/18/2011 12:44:28 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: unkus; 2sheds
Dad is 88 and under hospice care in a nursing home....

..just recently I brought over an 8 x 10 of dad from that era when he was in uniform...

..dad was movie star handsome in the 1940's and the cheekbones and bright blue eyes remain, as then.

I recently found some letters (written during the war years)...to his mom and dad and brother....

..at the top of the letterhead, he wrote...'somewhere in India'....

He was always very proud of his service....

113 posted on 12/18/2011 5:03:58 AM PST by Guenevere (....We press on.....)
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To: Guenevere
The number of Americans KIA in the Bulge is staggering..as the article said..it's the largest loss of life of US troops in a single action in WW II

There were three main reasons for this:

1. Almost all the US troops stationed in the Ardennes were replacement divisions..just arrived from the US, never seen battle. The were put there because SHAEF expected nothign but occasional small unit skirmishes..they wanted to give these troops a little seasoning.

2. Not only were the US troops raw, but they were vastly undermanned. I've seen estimates that for the length of the frontline, there should have been at least TWICE as many US troops. The rationale given for this was that the Ardennes was viewed as inpenetrable to last German formations..therefore less troops were needed.

3. The cold. US troops weren't well equipped for winter combat. THis impacted their combat effectiveness. More tellign is the ration of KIAs to WIAs in the Bulge. It was much lower than all during most of the European theater. That's because the cold is deadly to a wounded soldier. Totally saps his strength..

114 posted on 12/18/2011 5:27:20 AM PST by ken5050 (Support Admin Mods: Doing the tough, hard, dirty jobs that Americans won't do...)
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To: adorno

John Wayne did not make a Battle of the Bulge movie or for that matter, I can’t think of any movie he made dealing with the European theater. (oops I forgot...... the longest Day)

His movies all seem to be set in the Pacific

I looked for Dick Winters and Easy Company but didn’t see them either. That first picture with the tanks looks like the model for the Band of Brothers set however


115 posted on 12/18/2011 6:01:44 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: MasterGunner01
This is an M10 or M10A1 conversion to the M36 GMC (aka “Slugger”) with the 90mm M3 gun. The major recognition point is the gun mantlet and turret shape. Here:

Of interest is the folded yellow "sheet" strapped down on the aft deck.

Looks like the chemical-recognition material that was supposed to change color in the event of a chemical attack. Alternatively, it could have been a "don't shoot me" identification/recognition device ...
116 posted on 12/18/2011 6:02:01 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: jmacusa
We won’t see the likes of men like this again.

Your statement can't be repeated often enough.

117 posted on 12/18/2011 6:18:52 AM PST by dearolddad
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Comment #118 Removed by Moderator

To: Jim Noble

Interesting. The Germans are always pretty wicked. IMO, a very mean culture. I lived among them for a few years and I could tell you some stories of plain out abject cruelty. For about 50 years they have been largely pacified with long vacations, sick days, kindergeld and other various “social benefits”. All one has to do is wait in a deli line with a group of Germans to see a microcosm of their nature.


119 posted on 12/18/2011 6:48:53 AM PST by riri
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To: InvisibleChurch
This instatnly took me back to the stories my dad used to tell when I was growing up.

These pictures are incredible. Let us never forget the sacrifices Greatest Genreation made. They are almost gone from us.

120 posted on 12/18/2011 6:54:38 AM PST by CAluvdubya
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To: Guenevere

Our Dads could have rubbed elbows at one time or other or who knows, worked closely together. My Dad was all over India and Burma and into southern China.

God bless your Dad and all best wishes and thoughts to him and you.


121 posted on 12/18/2011 7:44:57 AM PST by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: InvisibleChurch
In the late 70's, I was stationed in the Eifel region of Germany not too far from where these photos were taken. I remember our FTX's being brutally cold. They only lasted a couple of weeks, and of course, nobody was shooting at us.

Looking at the pictures, I am amazed at how little the cold weather clothing had changed from the 40's to the 70's.

By the time I retired, we had evolved to polypropelene, and Gore-Tex. Much better.

Seeing those pictures makes my feet cold.

122 posted on 12/18/2011 8:08:45 AM PST by PalmettoMason ("The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.")
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To: riri
Interesting. The Germans are always pretty wicked. IMO, a very mean culture. I lived among them for a few years and I could tell you some stories of plain out abject cruelty. For about 50 years they have been largely pacified with long vacations, sick days, kindergeld and other various “social benefits”. All one has to do is wait in a deli line with a group of Germans to see a microcosm of their nature.

Yep. Interesting.

During three tours in Germany, I found just the opposite.

Of course, the folks in the big cities are like big city folks anywhere. The Germans I met, lived with, and became lifelong friends with were "country" folks- farmers from the Eifel region. They took a certain amount of pride in taking care of "their" Americans- the soldiers that they rented apartments or houses to. Almost all of us were invited to Christmas celebrations, or at least given sweets and treats by our hosts. We were welcomed at fests, and community dances. I was always welcomed at the local Gasthaus, and the men there took a particular interest in teaching me German words and phrases.

I have lived among Americans for most of my 54 years, and can probably match your stories of "plain out abject cruelty" 10 to 1.

I submit, as Exhibit A, the recent burning alive of a lady in an elevator in NYC.

Since we are discussing stories of people we have "lived among... what ya got?

123 posted on 12/18/2011 8:25:29 AM PST by PalmettoMason ("The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.")
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To: momtothree

“My husband’s Uncle said that it felt like even the core of your bones were frozen. When he got back home, he hated the Winter. (He loved it when he was a kid... some things stay with you forever)”

My father was the same way——the summer couldn’t get too hot for him! And you were right in your other post-—they were all heroes, God bless them.


124 posted on 12/18/2011 8:36:52 AM PST by CatherineofAragon
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To: cubreporter

“It’s NOT silly. I hope one day after much patience and viewing of BOB that you WILL see your dad. I will pray that you do and if you ever do.. you will have to come back to FR and let us all know. Merry Christmas and thanks to our father for his service.”

That made me tear up, but in a good way. :) I’ll be sure to come back and let you know. Thank you so much, and have a blessed Christmas.


125 posted on 12/18/2011 9:02:10 AM PST by CatherineofAragon
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To: wbill
I watched the 60s movie "Battle of the Bulge" with my Grandfather. When it was over, I asked him what he thought of the flick. You see, he had caught it "on its original showing", as he blithely put it. He thought for a sec, and said "It was a fine movie, but no one looked cold enough."

That's about the kindest review I've ever seen for that god-awful movie.

126 posted on 12/18/2011 9:05:51 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: mac_truck

He looks like the guy in Band of Brothers, who when asked about Patton, said, ‘How do I feel about being rescued by Patton? Well I’d feel pretty peachy, except for one thing, we didn’t f’in’ need to be rescued by Patton! Got that?’


127 posted on 12/18/2011 9:09:36 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Colorado Cowgirl
I think he headed the army at the time of the German offensive.
128 posted on 12/18/2011 9:11:07 AM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: warsaw44

“Do you have any idea what division or outfit he was in?”

He was in the 99th division (infantry).


129 posted on 12/18/2011 9:12:53 AM PST by CatherineofAragon
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To: momtothree
Can’t you just feel the cold?! It just looks bitterly cold

I can't imagine having to fight in those conditions. Endless cold destroys the body, the mind and the spirit.....

As a kid growing up in northern Michigan, I loved the winter and all the sports opportunities it provided. As an adult, winter becomes the most depressing time of the year and the hardest to cope with......

As an addendum to your comment, they did not have the warmth enhancing clothing we have today. Frostbite was a major problem for those soldiers fighting in the winter......frozen feet, frozen hands and fingers....endless cold

130 posted on 12/18/2011 9:31:20 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: unkus
It's entirely possible....dad was there for 3 years....in Calcutta & Bombay mostly.....and spent some time on supply trains....

He has very fair skin and the Indian sun took its toll on him..

....since the War.he has had countless bouts of skin cancer.

...even now in the nursing home, the latest bout is probably a melanoma but they can't help him now....because of his dementia.

God bless your dad for his service!....and Merry Christmas to you.

131 posted on 12/18/2011 10:49:22 AM PST by Guenevere (....We press on.....)
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To: Guenevere

It’s entirely possible....dad was there for 3 years....in Calcutta & Bombay mostly.....and spent some time on supply trains....


I’d say they knew each other. My Dad was in Service and Supply and they shipped almost everything from Bombay via rail. Then over “The Hump” into China via air. And there was the Burma and Lido Road.

Dad was a Capt. then.


132 posted on 12/18/2011 10:59:16 AM PST by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: Guenevere

Dad has been gone for quite a while. Thank you.

May you have the best Christmas possible.


133 posted on 12/18/2011 11:05:36 AM PST by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: riri
The Germans are always pretty wicked.

I think the Japs are the meanest people on earth. We have really done a good job pacifying them, for now, Their entire society/culture is based on warfare.

134 posted on 12/18/2011 11:17:55 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

My Dad was the Ship’s Photographer about a vessel in the South Pacific. He had his own darkroom onboard, and always made three prints of everything...One for the Navy, One for the Captain, and one for himself. I grew up looking at those pictures.

This is the first time I have seen the Battle of the Bulge in pictures. Amazing!

Thank you for posting.


135 posted on 12/18/2011 11:51:00 AM PST by left that other site
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To: central_va
I think I would have to agree with you about the Japanese.

Their record for mistreatment of non-Japanese civilians in conquered lands is so nauseating, so beyond imagination as not to be believed.

I have yet to meet a non-Japanese Asian that had any kind words about the Japanese. Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Filipino - they hate them even to this day.

136 posted on 12/18/2011 11:57:07 AM PST by warsaw44
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To: left that other site

Do you still have those photos??


137 posted on 12/18/2011 11:57:47 AM PST by warsaw44
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To: warsaw44
Mom has them in a shoebox. Here is one:
Kamakaze in a South Pacific Sea Battle.
138 posted on 12/18/2011 12:06:32 PM PST by left that other site
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To: Nailbiter

bfl


139 posted on 12/18/2011 12:12:46 PM PST by Nailbiter
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To: zot

Thank you very much, Only 1 was familar to me.


140 posted on 12/18/2011 1:02:08 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: warsaw44

Hitler thought the Japanese were unnecessarily cruel to civilians in China. When Hitler thinks you are being cruel then that is really UFB.


141 posted on 12/18/2011 1:43:12 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: left that other site
How many do you have?

If I sent you rigid plastic holders for them would you use them? Just sitting in a shoe box is not good for them as the Box is made of acidic cardboard. Also, curling, cracks and scuffing can occur. These are easily damaged.

I collect and deal in a wide range of antiques. Photos being a prime market for me ( and something I have collected for years ). I hate to think of them getting ruined. Will gladly send you rigid holders. I'm sure I can gather a bunch up.

Is that a scan of a negative that you flipped on photoshop? Great photo by the way!

142 posted on 12/18/2011 1:45:09 PM PST by warsaw44
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To: warsaw44

The Photos of Clayton E White








Thank You, Warsaw44, for your kindness. I will Freep you with my address.You are correct...these are scans my Dad did at kinko's before he got ill and passed away this Sept. 6. That is him on the Right.You can see more at www.mary-loukirshon.net, and also some of my mom's writings about that era..



Here is another:





ML/LTOS
(El Kabong)

143 posted on 12/18/2011 1:59:11 PM PST by left that other site
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To: MasterGunner01

well I was in the neighborhood anyway, it’s a variant of the M-10 class.


144 posted on 12/18/2011 2:40:31 PM PST by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Jedidah

My FRiend, you’ve a iconic and proud family history. Your ancestors sacrifice is the reason I enjoy the freedom I do.


145 posted on 12/18/2011 2:43:17 PM PST by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: unkus
I'm sorry to hear your dad has passed.....God bless him.

What a small world indeed!----that's exactly (as far as I know) what dad did.....in one of his wartime letters, he mentioned being a guard on the supply trains...

..and he had a funny story about a monkey stealing things on the train.

Thanks for this wonderful information.....they might very well have known each other.

Dad also spent some time in the mountain hospital after eating a macaroon cookie from a street vender (they were told not to)...and getting a horrible case of dysentery.

To this day, he will not touch a macaroon cookie.

146 posted on 12/18/2011 3:19:21 PM PST by Guenevere (....We press on.....)
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To: Guenevere

Dad mentioned monkeys on the trains, too!! We were little and I know he added that for our amusement.

And Dad got dysentary, too. I think most of them did.

Thanks so much. I’d bet they did know each other.

Did your dad ever mention Mules used for packing equipment?

God bless them all.


147 posted on 12/18/2011 3:32:31 PM PST by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: PalmettoMason

Maybe the trick is drinking with them at the gasthaus. Maybe your experience was closer to the post war era when they were still appreciative of Americans and our sacrifices. My experience was pretty recent. I stand by my observations. Additionally, Germans are pretty well loathed through out Europe because of their rudeness, coldness, lack of humor, etc.


148 posted on 12/18/2011 3:56:20 PM PST by riri
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To: central_va
I think the Japs are the meanest people on earth.

I don't know much about Japanese culture. I do have a girlfriend with a Japanese MIL who would certainly agree with you. (:

I can say I was rather impressed with the way the Japanese people handled the recent earthquake and nuclear disaster.

149 posted on 12/18/2011 4:00:37 PM PST by riri
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To: riri
I can say I was rather impressed with the way the Japanese people handled the recent earthquake and nuclear disaster.

Oh, they treat each other with the utmost respect, everyone else, not so much unless they want something from you.

150 posted on 12/18/2011 4:26:54 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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