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Gingrich and Reagan (Newt's repeated personal insults of Reagan and his successful policies)
National Review ^ | January 25, 2012 4:00 A.M. | Elliot Abrams

Posted on 01/25/2012 9:52:02 AM PST by T. Jefferson

In the increasingly rough Republican campaign, no candidate has wrapped himself in the mantle of Ronald Reagan more often than Newt Gingrich. “I worked with President Reagan to change things in Washington,” “we helped defeat the Soviet empire,” and “I helped lead the effort to defeat Communism in the Congress” are typical claims by the former speaker of the House.

The claims are misleading at best. In the Reagan years I was an assistant secretary of state — Mr. Gingrich voted with the president regularly, but equally often spewed insulting rhetoric at Reagan, his top aides, and his policies to defeat Communism. Gingrich was voluble and certain in predicting that Reagan’s policies would fail, and in all of this he was dead wrong.

President Reagan is clearly failing.” Why? This was due partly to “his administration’s weak policies, which are inadequate and will ultimately fail”; partly to CIA, State, and Defense, which “have no strategies to defeat the empire.” “The burden of this failure frankly must be placed first on President Reagan.” Our efforts against the Communists in the Third World were “pathetically incompetent.”

Gingrich’s called Reagan’s meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev “the most dangerous summit for the West since Adolf Hitler met with Neville Chamberlain in Munich.”

Far from becoming a reliable voice for Reagan policy and the struggle against the Soviets, Gingrich took on Reagan and his administration. It appears to be a habit: He did the same to George W. Bush when Bush was making the toughest and most controversial decision of his presidency — the surge in Iraq. Here again Gingrich provided no support for his party’s embattled president, testifying as a private citizen in 2007 that the strategy was “inadequate,” contained “breathtaking” gaps, lacked “synergism” (whatever that means), and was “very disappointing.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Cheese, Moose, Sister
KEYWORDS: gingrich; reagan; sovietunion; surge; zot
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To: Steamburg

What Newt should do is explain that he underestimated Reagan and was dead wrong about him in some areas....”just the way people underestimate me and are dead wrong.”


51 posted on 01/25/2012 11:20:53 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: US Navy Vet

Abrams is the typical, classic Neo-Con. He was a hardcore Leftist (even Communist) who saw the light about Socialism and underwent a conversion. They almost always have blind spots or areas where they retain some weird hybrid theories. You just have to allow them to be wrong some of the time. Reagan did.


52 posted on 01/25/2012 11:25:41 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: T. Jefferson
Who is Abrams trying to fool?

Reagan's staff went nearly appopletic when he insisted on saying, "Mr. Gorbachoff, tear down this wall."

Reagan and Thatcher's charaterization of the USSR as an "evil empire" drew nothing but derision from the media and beltway insiders.

What, exactly, did Mr. Abrams contribute to Reagan's success in this?

Chirp. Chirp.

He suggests Gingrich went against Reagan, but what was the actual criticism?

Thus Gingrich concluded as he surveyed five years of Reagan in power that “we have been losing the struggle with the Soviet empire.”

Reagan would have said so himself!

It was not until Reagan actually visited the USSR that he became convinced he could dismantle their economy by forcing them into an arms race.

Man. I'm getting a real eye-opener on the machinations of the Republican elites and I'm not liking it.

53 posted on 01/25/2012 11:27:45 AM PST by GVnana (Newt 2012 - He Speaks for Us)
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To: US Navy Vet

“Has East Coast HACK written ALL over HIM!”

The term usually makes me yawn, but he sounds like the sort that made “neoconservative” a bad name.


54 posted on 01/25/2012 11:29:44 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

“neoconservative” = East Coast HACK


55 posted on 01/25/2012 11:32:31 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: montag813

“Gingrich was 180-degrees wrong. It was a master stroke and huge victory for Reagan.”

It was, but let it be noted partly by accident. Reagan trounced Gorby through his zealous devotion to Star Wars. But if he was at all serious about that “zero option” stuff, it was indeed dangerous.


56 posted on 01/25/2012 11:35:23 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: T. Jefferson

Was newt really the party elite back then, critiquing reagan’s bold moves against Moscow? It’s worth finding that much out. Reagan was onto something.


57 posted on 01/25/2012 11:41:46 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: US Navy Vet

so reagan put this guy in his state department?...so reagan was a fool..is that what you are saying...or does that only matter when he blasts newt....think hard now


58 posted on 01/25/2012 11:47:07 AM PST by skaterboy (Hate=Love....Love=Hate)
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To: Presbyterian Reporter
and reagan put him in his administration....so lets trash reagan to save newt huh...or could it be newt is just another pol trying to have it both ways...ya thats it
59 posted on 01/25/2012 11:50:34 AM PST by skaterboy (Hate=Love....Love=Hate)
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To: riverdawg

Read the Book Reagan’s Secret War by Martin Anderson

Tells how he had to fight his military leaders and other conservatives including Thatcher when it came to negotiating nuclear weapons with the Soviets


60 posted on 01/25/2012 11:59:39 AM PST by uncbob
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Sorry the factual reality of this imperfect world upsets the fantasy land political bubble world you choose to live in.

Your total ignorance of even the most basic facts of the Reagan Presidency is childish.

No one in politics is ever the 99.9% Ivory Soap pure you mindless GOP cultists always try to manufacture around your idols.

Try learning the most basic historic facts of the issue rather then ignorantly cling to your childish political fantasies.

61 posted on 01/25/2012 12:01:00 PM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: skaterboy

skaterboy, an Anonymous FR COWARD since 2004.


62 posted on 01/25/2012 12:01:37 PM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Oh please, spare us the hysteric childish drivel posting you ignorant idol worshiping clowns always post about Reagan.

Your complete ignorance of even a basic understanding of the history of the 1980s is pathetic.

Reagan was far from perfect.

The Reagan you, and the rest of the Talk Radio Zombie bot faction of the GOP Establishment worship never existed.

Reagan was a man, like other men. He made mistakes. He had his strengths and his weaknesses. He was far from perfect

63 posted on 01/25/2012 12:04:30 PM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: CharlesWayneCT; All
The problem is that as soon as all the bandwagon jumpers here on FR claim their seats, they feel obliged to defend their new chosen favorite as someone faultless as the wind-drifted snow.

It was true of the Palindrones.

It was true of the Cainiacs.

And now it's true of the freshly minted, toeing-the-FR-line Newtistas.

I've supported Newt since the first debate. I still support him. But I never delude myself that he has no flaws or negatives. He's the best of those who are running, no more, no less.

64 posted on 01/25/2012 12:27:47 PM PST by Notary Sojac (Liberalism: Ideas so good, they have to be mandatory!!)
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To: Deb

“What Newt should do is explain that he underestimated Reagan and was dead wrong about him in some areas....”just the way people underestimate me and are dead wrong.””

That would, indeed, be an artful and honest response by Newt.


65 posted on 01/25/2012 12:47:35 PM PST by riverdawg
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To: MissMagnolia

“Reagan’s Young Lieutenant”

MissMagnolia - What a great link.

To tell you the truth, some of Romney’s criticisms of Newt and the Reagan years were troubling to me and it seemed like no one was disagreeing with Romney. This article is really GOOD! And from someone who was there and is credible. It also explains why so many “conservatives” are lining up against Newt.

I’m just a lurker, rarely comment, and have no idea how to post. Can you post this under latest articles so everyone can read it? Thanks for making it available!


66 posted on 01/25/2012 1:00:50 PM PST by Bladerunner
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To: Notary Sojac

Hell, in this case, it’s the same guy. They just flit from candidate to candidate, and each step down they still treat their candidate as golden, and it doesn’t matter what conservatives they trash.


67 posted on 01/25/2012 1:03:35 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: GVnana
“It was not until Reagan actually visited the USSR that he became convinced he could dismantle their economy by forcing them into an arms race.”

This simply isn't true. I recommend reading Peter Schweizer’s “Reagan's War” or his earlier “Victory” for a detailed study of Reagan's insight into the fundamental frailty of the Soviet economy. Reagan was giving speeches as early as 1963 claiming we could win the Cold War if we used our economic, and especially technological, superiority against the Soviet Union. President Reagan's NSC directives that spelled out the strategic goals of U.S. military superiority and economic and political decline of the U.S.S.R. were issued in 1982-83, long before his official trips to Moscow.

68 posted on 01/25/2012 1:03:43 PM PST by riverdawg
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To: MNJohnnie

Of course Reagan made mistakes. You don’t have to think he’s perfect to denounce an absurd claim that he abdicated the Presidency to his Vice President because of his Alzeihmers.

Since Gingrich claimed that Reagan’s policies were a failure, and yet we know they succeeded wildly, your appeals to Reagan being a flawed President are a distraction, not an argument. The “flawed President” got it right, Newt was wrong.

I guess us “ignorant idol worshipping clowns” of Reagan can’t hold a candle to the “ignorant idol worshipping clowns” of Gingrich.

You used to attack Gingrich, of course you used to shill for other candidates, and used to lie about Rick Perry, so the real question is — do you really believe Gingrich was more conservative than Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, or are you just making things up again to support your current candidate choice?


69 posted on 01/25/2012 1:07:54 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: riverdawg
This simply isn't true. I recommend reading Peter Schweizer’s “Reagan's War” or his earlier “Victory” for a detailed study of Reagan's insight into the fundamental frailty of the Soviet economy.

One thing that seems to be forgotten about Reagan is that he had a degree in economics from before Keynsianism came about. So he had a real understanding of what worked and what didn't.

70 posted on 01/25/2012 1:08:10 PM PST by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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To: Thane_Banquo
“In Gingrich's defence, there was so much classified stuff Reagan was doing behind the scenes that even Congress wasn't privy to.”

So, are you saying that the best defense of Gingrich's claim (about President Reagan's strategic policy towards the Soviet Union being wrong) is that he (Gingrich) was ignorant?

71 posted on 01/25/2012 1:10:07 PM PST by riverdawg
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To: Bladerunner
It has already been posted & that's where I got the link - here's the FR thread:

www.Free Republic.com

You can 'bump' the thread and ping people you know to it and/or try to pass it around like I'm doing. I also sent the direct link to the article to a friend (in FL) & she's posting it on her FB page, etc.

Here's are two other really good links (1st one from FR thread originially):

What Really Happened in the Gingrich Ethics Case?

The Three Reasons Newt is More Electable Than Mitt

72 posted on 01/25/2012 1:26:38 PM PST by MissMagnolia (Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. (M.Thatcher))
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To: uncbob
“Read the Book Reagan’s Secret War by Martin Anderson

Tells how he had to fight his military leaders and other conservatives including Thatcher when it came to negotiating nuclear weapons with the Soviets”

That book by Martin Anderson is on my to-read list. I recommend to you the book by Peter Schweizer, “Reagan's War” (or his earlier “Victory”) to understand how Reagan's nuclear arms reduction proposals fit into his overall campaign to win the Cold War. Newt and many other conservatives didn't understand at the time why Reagan was pursuing disarmament talks with the “evil empire.” Schweizer argues that the Soviet leadership had a better understanding of the implications of Reagan's strategy than either his critics or his supporters.

73 posted on 01/25/2012 1:27:20 PM PST by riverdawg
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To: US Navy Vet

“Heritage Foundation: Alumnus of Heritage Foundation Resource Bank
Francisco Marroquin Foundation: Former chairman
Hudson Institute: Senior Fellow, 1990–96
Independent Task Force on Colombia: Former member
Middle East Forum: Signatory of 2000 report urging military action against Syria
Nicaraguan Resistance Foundation: Former chairman
Project for the New American Century: Signatory of 1997 Statement of Principles and various other statements
U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom: Former member”

You forgot to put the above in.
He’s a patriot who put his career on the line for this country.


74 posted on 01/25/2012 1:43:34 PM PST by dervish (female candidates: the last frontier)
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To: Presbyterian Reporter

Precisely. I was being sarcastic. I’m really no fan of Gingrich for a number of reasons but the folks lining up to shoot him down are the same types who were doing similar things to Reagan.


75 posted on 01/25/2012 1:46:25 PM PST by MSF BU
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To: dervish

And theis “list” is supposed to “Impress” me/us...why?!


76 posted on 01/25/2012 1:47:13 PM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

On the facts at hand I have nothing to say as I was not there when Gingrich is alleged to have said what he said. On National Review’s skew to the left in its editorial policy—particularly with its Romney-shilling—I allow the facts to speak for themselves.


77 posted on 01/25/2012 1:53:58 PM PST by Timaeus (Willard Mitt Romney Delenda Est)
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To: Josh Painter

The article is written by a former Pres Reagan Assistant Secretary of State. It is not written by NRO or any of their authors.


78 posted on 01/25/2012 2:00:05 PM PST by dervish (female candidates: the last frontier)
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To: riverdawg
Reagan BELIEVED in the superiority -- the exceptionalism -- of the US. The question was, "How, exactly, do we put an end to the threat?"

I'm paraphrasing Reagan's own description in my previous post, but I'm going to have to find an original written source.

Remember, we were still in the Nixon/Carter era of "detente" with the Soviets.

We had lost the edge.

Sorry I can't research this more right now since I'm supposed to be working! See: Wikipedia "Predictions of Soviet Collapse - Ronald Reagan"

79 posted on 01/25/2012 2:12:59 PM PST by GVnana (Newt 2012 - He Speaks for Us)
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To: txrefugee

I don’t know if anyone thinks Fred Thompson is a ‘moldy-oldie’, but he just endorsed Newt last night! That was interesting, because he’s said to be a big friend of McCain’s! Or was he?


80 posted on 01/25/2012 4:00:48 PM PST by dsutah
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To: T. Jefferson
I was also not a fan of Reagan at first and had my doubts quite often But in retrospect that makes me no different than Newt. However many years later I do not remember my past doubt and look fondly on Ronnie. If this is pislosi’s big secret it ain't changing my mind.
81 posted on 01/25/2012 4:23:43 PM PST by badpacifist (Hey Libs ......Is your dream turning into a nightmare yet? Newt 2012)
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To: riverdawg

That was essentially what the book Reagan’s Secret War covered


82 posted on 01/25/2012 4:48:34 PM PST by uncbob
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To: Josh Painter

Thank you, Josh. Newt and Jesse Helms were among the truest bluest supporters of the Gipper. These Romney people are amazing liars.


83 posted on 01/25/2012 4:54:33 PM PST by Luke21
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To: Timaeus

Of course this was written by the noted “leftist” Eliot Abrams

for the record this is sarcasm


84 posted on 01/25/2012 5:02:10 PM PST by woofie (It takes three villages and a forest of woodland creatures to raise a child in Obamaville)
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To: US Navy Vet
Has East Coast HACK written ALL over HIM!

... or, a liberal Democrat until he married Podhoretz's step-daughter.

85 posted on 01/25/2012 5:08:30 PM PST by Kennard
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To: T. Jefferson
Newt Gingrich is no Mitt Romney.

That's all that matters now.

86 posted on 01/25/2012 5:59:13 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: woofie

Reagan’s Young Lieutenant. Gingrich a star on Reagan team...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2837275/posts


87 posted on 01/25/2012 6:36:36 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is not just brewing, rebellion is here!!)
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To: MissMagnolia
Thanks for posting the excellent Spectator article.

The NR article incensed me to the degree that I read every comment to the NR article. They were almost equally pro- and anti-Newt. I found the pro-Newt comments to be fact-based and rational and the anti-Newt comments to be the opposite, not because of my views, but because of the prevalence of ad hominem and judgmental comments from the anti-Newters. One of the first comments was the best, in my view. It addressed likely bias on Abrams part. Abrams was in Jim Baker's circle. Baker and his group detested Newt. Thirty years later, they still nurse a grudge.

The strength of opinion about Newt is really off the charts. Many of those opposed to him are more vitriolic than I could imagine they ever could be toward Democrats. This is all the more reason why they must be defeated.

88 posted on 01/25/2012 6:40:34 PM PST by Kennard
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To: Kennard

You’re very welcome. It’s an important article - pass it on/around if you can.


89 posted on 01/25/2012 7:32:15 PM PST by MissMagnolia (Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. (M.Thatcher))
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To: CharlesWayneCT

If you object to being treated like an idiot, stop acting like one.


90 posted on 01/26/2012 7:03:55 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: MNJohnnie
I remember not so long ago you wrote:

And then when President Newt, turns out to be much more like Nixon/Bush then Reagan, you all will be racing around here whining hysterically about him

Now Reagan is now not so perfect. And Newt will be even worse because he will govern to the left of Reagan?

I'm confused.

91 posted on 01/26/2012 9:43:26 AM PST by joesbucks
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To: MNJohnnie
I remember not so long ago you wrote:

And then when President Newt, turns out to be much more like Nixon/Bush then Reagan, you all will be racing around here whining hysterically about him

Now Reagan is now not so perfect. And Newt will be even worse because he will govern to the left of Reagan?

I'm confused.

92 posted on 01/26/2012 9:43:44 AM PST by joesbucks
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To: MNJohnnie

Speaking of idiots, I see you still haven’t figured out how to make your comments as “replies” to posts, something I believe every other freeper knows how to do.

Maybe you should figure that out before you embarrass yourself calling other people names.


93 posted on 01/26/2012 10:20:15 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: woofie
Of course this was written by the noted “leftist” Eliot Abrams
Yes, Abrams is a conservative, or more precisely a neoconservative, and while I do not support neoconservative foreign policy I respect Abrams for his foreign policy analysis and his commitment to the analytic process, but do you know what's really conservative?--or what really serves the cause of conservatism?--supporting even with your silence the only movement conservative candidate available to us at the moment, which would be Gingrich, and not lending your good name to a group of editors committed to the candidacy of the man whose only achievement as a failed one term governor is a program of policy functionally identical to ObamaCare, viz. RomneyCare.
for the record this is sarcasm.
It's always a shame to have to explain a joke. Keep working on it. It's all in the delivery.
94 posted on 01/26/2012 10:29:47 AM PST by Timaeus (Willard Mitt Romney Delenda Est)
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To: Deb

I clearly like that observation. None of us are right all the time and there are always those who will remind us when we have been wrong.


95 posted on 01/26/2012 1:56:41 PM PST by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Well if you are not an idiot, why do you spend so much time posting like one?


96 posted on 01/26/2012 3:31:25 PM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: MNJohnnie

Nice comeback. What’s next? “I know you are but what am I?”


97 posted on 01/26/2012 3:47:32 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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