Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

VANITY: Is Mormonism Christian or is it not?
Vanity ^ | 2-10-2012 | Vanity

Posted on 02/10/2012 12:14:55 PM PST by OKSooner

Is it a fair question to ask... Is Mormonism Christian or is it not?

If you care enough to respond and tell me it's not a fair question, please explain why not.


TOPICS: Cheese, Moose, Sister; Religion
KEYWORDS: inman
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250251-270 next last
To: Elsie

I see you DID have an opinion on this question LOL


201 posted on 02/12/2012 9:05:53 AM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

I see you DID have an opinion on this question LOL


202 posted on 02/12/2012 9:06:01 AM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Jukeman
Let's broaden it some more, then...

Was Joseph Smith a pedophile? (Seven wives under the age of eighteen, youngest was fourteen years old)

203 posted on 02/12/2012 9:13:12 AM PST by AnTiw1 (I lived through a mormon hell, I will not live in a country with a mormon president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 197 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner


"...who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time;
 
...
 
 that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them. "
 
"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"
--The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom
--Thomas Jefferson, 1786
 

204 posted on 02/12/2012 9:19:26 AM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AnTiw1
The mormon brain trust is having unforeseen technical difficulties. Please try your call again later.


205 posted on 02/12/2012 10:01:53 AM PST by AnTiw1 (I lived through a mormon hell, I will not live in a country with a mormon president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: fso301; OKSooner

fso: If upon hearing the Gospel Message from a Mormon missionary”.

Nana: So lets hear it so we can judge for ourseves...

fso: Since I’m not a Mormon missionary, I can’t say but from Brigham Young’s website, I find the following:

The gospel or doctrine of Christ teaches that salvation is available through his authorized servants to all who will (1) believe in Christ; (2) repent of their sins; (3) be baptized in water as a witness of their willingness to take his name upon them and keep his commandments; (4) receive the Holy Ghost by the laying-on of hands; and (5) endure to the end.

I see no problem with any of that serious enough to say such believer is not a Christian.
_____________________________________________

Well fso391 and OKSooner lets see what a Mormon leader sai8d about the Mormon idea of salvation...

as you will read it does not agree with the Christian Bible...

“Salvation can not be gained except through baptism of water and the spirit, nor can exaltation be achieved except through temple endowments and the sealing of families together for eternity. These saving and exalting ordinances are performed vicariously in temples for the worthy dead who did not have the opportunity to receive them in this life. We are commanded to go with our might, collect all the accurate genealogical data we can, and perform these saving and exalting ordinances for our worthy ancestors. Obviously, due to the frailties, incapacities, and errors of mortal men, and because the records of past ages are often scanty and inaccurate, this great work can not be completed for every worthy soul without assistance from on high.

The millennial era is the time primarily, when this assistance will be given by resurrected beings.

Genealogical records unknown to us will then become available. Errors committed by us in sealings or other ordinances will be rectified, and all things will be arranged in proper order. Temple work will be the great work of the millennium.”

Joseph Fielding Smith- Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 2 P.P. 251-252


206 posted on 02/12/2012 11:51:04 AM PST by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: Jukeman; Graewoulf; VinceASA; Monkey Face; RIghtwardHo; pieces of time; Warthog-2; Tzar; ...

jukeman says:

“Pray to the Pope? Not I. Nor will I pray to “Mother Mary”.”

Could you say a prayer for me?


207 posted on 02/12/2012 11:54:47 AM PST by narses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The Lord himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation” [John 3:5] (CCC 1257). Through baptism men and women are freed from sin, are reborn as children of God, and, configured to Christ by an indelible character, are incorporated into the Church (Can. 849). The Sacrament of Baptism makes you a Christian.

The validity of this sacrament depends on the following requirements:

1. The correct matter (water)
2. The correct form (baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)
3. The correct intention (to do what the Church does)

In July 2001, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith gave a negative response to the validity of Baptism conferred in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Father Luis Ladaria, S.J. says in summary:

“The Baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ essentially, both for what concerns faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name Baptism is conferred, and for what concerns the relationship to Christ who instituted it. As a result of all this, it is understood that the Catholic Church has to consider invalid, that is to say, cannot consider true Baptism, the rite given that name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints."

It is worth noting that the Catholic Church recognizes baptism from most christian churches but not from the Mormon Church.

208 posted on 02/12/2012 2:32:34 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The Lord himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation” [John 3:5] (CCC 1257). Through baptism men and women are freed from sin, are reborn as children of God, and, configured to Christ by an indelible character, are incorporated into the Church (Can. 849). The Sacrament of Baptism makes you a Christian.

The validity of this sacrament depends on the following requirements:

1. The correct matter (water)
2. The correct form (baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)
3. The correct intention (to do what the Church does)

In July 2001, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith gave a negative response to the validity of Baptism conferred in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Father Luis Ladaria, S.J. says in summary:

“The Baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ essentially, both for what concerns faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name Baptism is conferred, and for what concerns the relationship to Christ who instituted it. As a result of all this, it is understood that the Catholic Church has to consider invalid, that is to say, cannot consider true Baptism, the rite given that name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints."

It is worth noting that the Catholic Church recognizes baptism from most christian churches but not from the Mormon Church.

209 posted on 02/12/2012 2:32:59 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: narses

Absolutely.


210 posted on 02/12/2012 3:50:29 PM PST by RIghtwardHo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
Is that kinda like a paraplegic watching porn?

Yes. It is. It's frustrating as hell knowing the actors on the screen are not really enjoying what they're doing (arguing about religion), the climax is fake (heaven or hell or becoming a god on your own planet) and I can't do a damn thing about it.
211 posted on 02/12/2012 3:54:56 PM PST by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: Owl558
If the Christian Mormon bashers on this thread are right, we have an obligation to work at saving the souls of our lost Mormon brothers and sisters with LOVE like JESUS taught us, not venom like I see here.

If you are going to accuse me of being UNLOVING; then at LEAST get the OBJECT of my hatred right!

It's mormonISM!

212 posted on 02/12/2012 4:15:36 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: bonfire
Was this a big announcement? Memos to the wards? Did anyone object?

It really doesn't matter; for in the future, it would be referenced by ANTIs for some reason or another, and a future wannabe MORMON apologist would complain: "That's not SCRIPTURE; but mere opinion of man."


They really DO want it both ways!

213 posted on 02/12/2012 4:18:35 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: All
I'd like to thank everyone who has constructively contributed to this thread and also I'd like to clarify something:

I am not a Mormon, nor am I a "Romneybot".

I am New Testament Christian who believes and tries to live by the Nicene Creed.

I have been supporting Newt in the Republican primary but with Rick's recent surge I am giving him a second look. I will vote for one of these two in "my state's" primary on March 6th.

There is at least one insane person on this thread who seems to have convinced herself otherwise, along with apparently some sort of other delusion of a more personal nature, which have both been posted publicly on this thread. I hope there's only one individual suffering this way and no more.

Thanks again to the overwhelming (sane) majority who have offered constructive comments.

214 posted on 02/12/2012 4:42:24 PM PST by OKSooner (Today's new tagline. Tomorrow's new tagline pending.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ml/nj
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 132:66

And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present.

MORMON 'scripture' says "VERILY" a lot...

215 posted on 02/12/2012 5:20:43 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: Normandy
If you read the Book of Mormon you’ll find that the central message is that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the world

Of COURSE it is; since the BoM has HUNDREDS of KJV lifted verses in it.


If you were REALLY a MORMON; you'd see that NO MORMON doctrine comes from the BoM.

You'd ALSO see that NONE of the Temple Rituals® come from ANY MORMON scripture; but from the mind of man.

216 posted on 02/12/2012 5:23:29 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: bert
still out there, still cluttering the forum with bigotry, still viewing the world through a bigot filter, still hyping drivel.

BERT, Bert, bert...

Still getting upset over the posting of MORMON scripture?

217 posted on 02/12/2012 5:25:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: proxy_user
Respectable? You don’t bother anyone, deal honestly, obey the law, and pay your taxes. Any religion where most of the flock does this is usually considered OK.

Nice virtues; but WHERE is the RELIGION part?

218 posted on 02/12/2012 5:26:14 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: Jukeman
Yes, I broadened the thread didn’t I. If you have a problem with that, simply ignore me.

Ignore you?

Why?

I just merely pointed out the TACTICS that some folks use to let MORMONs off the hook.

I hope you have no problem with that...

219 posted on 02/12/2012 5:29:33 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 197 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana; fso301
The gospel or doctrine of Christ teaches that salvation is available through his authorized servants to all who will (1) believe in Christ; (2) repent of their sins; (3) be baptized in water as a witness of their willingness to take his name upon them and keep his commandments; (4) receive the Holy Ghost by the laying-on of hands; and (5) endure to the end. I see no problem with any of that serious enough to say such believer is not a Christian.

O...
K...

220 posted on 02/12/2012 5:32:16 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 206 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana; fso301
The gospel or doctrine of Christ teaches that salvation is available through his authorized servants to all who will (1) believe in Christ; (2) repent of their sins; (3) be baptized in water as a witness of their willingness to take his name upon them and keep his commandments; (4) receive the Holy Ghost by the laying-on of hands; and (5) endure to the end.

I see no problem with any of that serious enough to say such believer is not a Christian.

It would be kind of hard to see, I agree, for there is nothing in that statement that shows what MORMONism has ADDED to the requirements.

Up until 9/10/2001, THESE folks probably led exemplary lives, too.

221 posted on 02/12/2012 5:36:27 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 206 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke

{snicker}


222 posted on 02/12/2012 5:37:52 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 211 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner
I hope there's only one individual suffering this way and no more.

Drat!

If you have the ability to psychoanalize one nameless person; then you SURELY could detect any others...

223 posted on 02/12/2012 5:40:25 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 214 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Seriously, I would like to know when the edict went out. What else was going on at that time? Why the sudden shift from proud Mormons to “Christians”?


224 posted on 02/12/2012 5:42:29 PM PST by bonfire
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 213 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
Actually it's kinda obvious. I started an innocent vanity thread trying to edify myself and then the next thing I knew I was being called a Romneybot and other stuff too by someone clearly has some kind of problem.

Sorry if the person involved is a friend of yours. You might suggest that they get help.

225 posted on 02/12/2012 5:50:35 PM PST by OKSooner (Today's new tagline. Tomorrow's new tagline pending.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 223 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman
He was driven out of the Massachusetts Bay Colony by the same Puritan element who later conducted the Salem Witch Trials because they considered Baptists a cult. That's why genuine Baptists are emphatic in defending the rights of Mormons (or any other group) to worship as they believe.

Ann Glover, an Irish slave, was the last woman to be hanged as a witch. During the trial Coton Mather called Glover "a scandalous old Irishwoman, very poor, a Roman Catholick and obstinate in idolatry."

That said, I always find Baptists to have a deep hatred toward the Catholic Church. Why so?

226 posted on 02/12/2012 6:09:55 PM PST by Alice in Wonderland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

If you have the ability to psychoanalize one nameless person; then you SURELY could detect any others...
_____________________________________________

With that kind of ability no questions about Mormonism would have been necessary...

The all knowing one would have just...

well known...


227 posted on 02/12/2012 6:52:17 PM PST by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 223 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner

So,,,,, are you a Christian or a Mormon?

You already knew the answer to your vanity thread so what was the point?


228 posted on 02/12/2012 7:44:48 PM PST by bonfire
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 225 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner
Actually it's kinda obvious. I started an innocent vanity thread trying to edify myself and then the next thing I knew I was being called a Romneybot and other stuff too by someone clearly has some kind of problem.
 
 
HMMMmmm...
 
To me; your #129 is a bit confusing, since I've no reference to what that something in the PRIVATE mail was all about.
Will you two agree to post it in the open for all to see?
 
 
 




 
 
 
 
 
 
To: Vigilanteman

Tell ya what Mormon RomneyBot..  <--- First mention

56 posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 4:13:38 PM by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)

 

 

 

 

 

To: OKSooner

Please stop sending me FReepMail...

If you have something to say to me say it in the open thread...

As I cannot address anything you say to me in a FReepMail I must at this time refrain from commenting...

If you desire an answer to your FReepMail queries please repeat them here in the thread...

Yours Sincerely,

Tennessee Nana
Christian

126 posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 1:25:07 PM by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)

 



To: Tennessee Nana

Your grace and your kindness are exceeded only by your sense of discretion.

129 posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 3:46:19 PM by OKSooner (Today's new tagline. Tomorrow's new tagline pending.)


To: OKSooner

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Love Bomb flattery...

You want something...

Ok so what is it you need ???

a hug ???

RomneyBots must get lonely with nothing to talk to...   <--- Second mention

an empty suit is not much for company...

130 posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 3:53:30 PM by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
 
 
 
 
 

229 posted on 02/12/2012 7:47:01 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 225 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner
You might suggest that they get help.

I'd need a list of symptoms first; before I can suggest medication.

230 posted on 02/12/2012 7:47:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 225 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

You two seem to have some kind of disagreement here.

Let’s resolve it.


231 posted on 02/12/2012 7:49:13 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 227 | View Replies]

To: Owl558
None of it serves Christ. You don’t save souls by calling people cultists, tearing them down, and all but accusing them of satan worship. If the Christian Mormon bashers on this thread are right, we have an obligation to work at saving the souls of our lost Mormon brothers and sisters with LOVE like JESUS taught us, not venom like I see here.

You want to keep attacking Protestant Christians, particularly Evangelicals, while defending the non-Christian religion of Mormonism.

The Catholic church knows those Protestants as fellow Christians, just as they make clear that Mormonism is a non-Christian religion created by Joseph Smith.

Protestants, especially Evangelicals seem to be doing most of the work to save those Mormons by openly challenging the cult as attempting to deceive people into thinking that they are a Christian denomination, and fighting for their victim's souls.

That serves Christ. Fight to expose Mormonism, not to quiet those who strive to expose it.

232 posted on 02/12/2012 10:53:14 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

LOL! True dat!

Cheers


233 posted on 02/12/2012 11:29:18 PM PST by DoctorBulldog (Obama Sucks!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman
That's why genuine Baptists are emphatic in defending the rights of Mormons (or any other group) to worship as they believe. And the phony variety are just as emphatic in condemning them to hell and denouncing them as a cult.

You kinda played some Mormon like twisty game with your words there. My guess is the Baptists were very much against Polygamy, and we know that Baptists agree that Mormonism is not Christian.

Genuine Baptists, as all other Christian denominations, support the legal rights of Mormons except for the polygamy, which Christian America forced the Mormons to end. but like all Christians, they also know that Mormonism is not Christian.

234 posted on 02/13/2012 12:23:44 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Sure. You’re probably still unable to answer yes or no, so I’ll try not to address you.


235 posted on 02/13/2012 6:08:00 AM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman

You know, you can defend the rights of a group to worship as they please, and denounce them as a cult at the same time, right? There’s no inherent contradiction there.


236 posted on 02/13/2012 10:09:46 AM PST by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr; Jeff Head
You’re probably still unable to answer yes or no, so I’ll try not to address you.

You seem to have me confused with Jeff Head, or the dearly departed ones: Paragon Defender, or Resty, or Saundra Duffy.

Perhaps you are thinking of ol' Bob: Professor Millet.


 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."


237 posted on 02/13/2012 10:12:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

“You want to keep attacking Protestant Christians, particularly Evangelicals...”

Sadly, I’ve been attacked by evengelicals many, many times about my Catholic faith - I am in a cult, not a REAL Christian, I don’t pray correctly, etc. etc. ad nauseam. I am probably overly defensive about it.

Having been on the receiving end of such venom, I know how it looks/feels from the other side. It hardens your heart, as opposed to opening it to the Spirit. Notice how my critisism of Protestant zeal provoked strong feelings of being attacked in you.

I always think of firery Peter cutting the ear off the high priest’s slave when they came to take Jesus. Poor Peter couldn’t help himself. Yet, violently protecting his Lord didn’t necessarily serve God’s plan either. Peter was still struggling to become the rock upon which the church would be built.

My goal is not to quiet anybody, but to suggest that the approach to saving souls could be more Christ-like and loving. I think folks would respond better.

If you believe that I have sinned against you or anybody else, I ask forgiveness. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ still struggling to be rocks like St. Peter.


238 posted on 02/13/2012 11:30:03 AM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 232 | View Replies]

To: Owl558

Again you choose to attack fellow Christians while defending and trying to protect the anti-Christian cult of Mormonism.

You might not know this, but the most open, consistent Catholic participation on Mormon threads, is in support of Mormonism, it flies in the face of your churches teachings on the matter.

Did you know that Mormon freepers have converted to Christianity as a result of these discussions here, which you want to stop, other Mormon freepers were converted by ‘zealous Christians’, outside of freerepublic.

What you label as Christian zeal, saves souls. Most of the real Christian zeal you see here, is from freepers who have escaped the anti-Christian cult.


239 posted on 02/13/2012 12:04:22 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: Owl558
Peter was still struggling to become the rock upon which the church would be built.

And you wonder why PROTESTANTs get on your case??


No 'venom'; just Scripture


 
Is Peter the 'rock'?
 


NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
 
NIV Matthew 8:14
  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
 
NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
 
NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
 

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....


NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "
Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
   and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
 
NIV Luke 6:48
   He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
 
NIV Romans 9:33
  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 
 
 
NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.


But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
 24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.
 
NIV Numbers 20:8
   "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
   Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
 
NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
 
NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'
 
NIV Psalms 18:2
  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.
 
NIV Psalms 18:31
   For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV Psalms 18:46
  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
 
NIV Psalms 19:14
   May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 28:1
   To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
 
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
 
NIV Psalms 42:9
   I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
 
NIV Psalms 62:2
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:6
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:7
   My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
 
NIV Psalms 71:3
   Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
 
NIV Psalms 78:35
   They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 89:26
   He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
 
NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."
 
NIV Psalms 95:1
   Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
 
NIV Psalms 144:1
   Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
 
NIV Isaiah 17:10
   You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
 
NIV Isaiah 26:4
   Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
 
NIV Isaiah 30:29
 And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
 
NIV Isaiah 44:8
   Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 
 
NIV Habakkuk 1:12
   O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

.....No other rock.............
 
And now you know the Biblical position!


240 posted on 02/13/2012 12:51:14 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: Alice in Wonderland
That said, I always find Baptists to have a deep hatred toward the Catholic Church. Why so?

Good quetion and even better observation. I'm old enough to remember when it was considered chic and fashionable to hate Catholics among certain Protestant sects or, more to the point, certain extreme members in certain Protestant sects.

I think the Kennedys and the Kennedy assassinations made it unchic and unfashionable. That's when the same people found it chic and fashionable to hate Mormons with even fewer consequences.

Bully bigots generally target those least likely and/or fewest in number to fight back.

FWIW, the same Mather clan justified extermination of the Native Americans (including some in the very tribes which helped them survive the brutal early years in the colonies) by the rationalization that they were preventing the birth of more lost souls which wouldn't convert to their brand of Christianity and would be damned anyway. It is the same sick type of philosophy which the left uses for exterminating opponents of their brand of socialist utopia.

As I previously stated, the real Baptists (who adhere the Roger Williams model of absolute right to worship according to your individual dictates of conscience) find such a philosophy abhorrent. The phony variety find it chic and fashionable, particularly when it is limited to only "soft" persecution like shouting people down, distorting their beliefs, branding them as cults, etc. Sort of like a disproportionate number of abused children grow up to be child abusers themselves.

241 posted on 02/13/2012 1:31:37 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies]

To: narses

In general or specifically?


242 posted on 02/13/2012 1:44:32 PM PST by Jukeman (God help us for we are deep in trouble.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies]

To: OKSooner
I wrote the following witness of Christ some time ago in answer to a similar question posed in a thread here on FR when Perry was still running as a candidate.

MY WITNESS FOR CHRIST

I post it to you here in answer to your question, and I do so as an LDS myself at the risk of the potential ridicule, attacks, name-calling (ie. liar, deciever, etc.), etc. that it may well generate from those intent on marginalizing and demonizing anything that has to do with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to which I belong

So be it. I thought you should hear a witness from an LDS member directly.

It is an accurate description of what we, active LDS members believe, as opposed to what others tell us that we believe.

I hope you find it of interest from that perspective.

243 posted on 02/13/2012 2:06:32 PM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
Thanks for the voluminous info. I listened to the podcast by Dr. Millet and found it very interesting. He referred to the "witness of the Holy Spirit" that he claimed to have, and which validated what he referred to as the new "restored gospel" of the LDS church.

I suppose I am entitled to my own "witness" regarding Dr. Millet, which was that he is a silken-tonged apostle of a false gospel, as clearly exposed by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 1:6-8:

"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"

These verses apply directly to Mormons, who explicitly claim to have a new revelation from God - delivered by an "angel" (..."if we or an angel from heaven...") Dr. Millet himself explicitly stated that he was not teaching the Gospel as taught in the New Testament, but rather the "restored" Mormon gospel. However, this "gospel" is contrary to the Gospel as preached and taught by the Apostles in the New Testament, and therefore falls under Paul's condemnation.

244 posted on 02/13/2012 2:12:44 PM PST by tjd1454
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head
I wrote the following witness of Christ... It is an accurate description of what we, active LDS members believe, as opposed to what others tell us that we believe.

The following excerpt from your "witness" is very revealing in that you admit what most Mormons will not, namely your belief that you will one day become a god. The following is excerpted from your "witness":

"Having said all that, we are created in the express image of God. He told us so. I imagine that if the veil were rent in twain and our mortal eyes could stand to behold God as prophets of old did, we would see His glorified person and recognize His form as the same as our own...but glorified and eternal.

He has said, and his apostles and disciples have said on numerous occasions, that we are His Children, and that we can attain the same glory as Christ...and we know that unto Christ will be given "all that the Father hath"...and that in fact Christ commanded us to become perfect even as He, God in Heaven is perfect.

...The couplet you are looking for, expressed by Lorenzo Snow is this, "As man is, God once was, and as God is man may become."

We believe a loving Father, who loves us perfectly, wants His children to have the absolute very best (i.e. godhead?)...any loving father inherits this from God and wants the same for His children, as does a loving mother. Remember what Paul taught in Romans 10 and what Christ taught in Matthew. We believe those things and believe God in fact wants us to become like Him because He wants the very best for us and He has it. He loves us perfectly and wants us to have His perfect existance. It does not detract from Him in the least to do so, rather, the opposite is true. We believe that the whole plan of salvation, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is geared towards this end. (attaining godhead?)

.That as He created and brought us forth...His own children...and that He would have us do the same thing some day. Now, Lorenzo Snow, based on a sermon Joseph Smith preached back in the late 1830s or 1840 came up with that couplet to describe what he felt Jospeph Smith was teaching based on these principles I have just described. To us, these things are holy, special, and glorious and represent the will of a perfectly loving Father in Heaven.

------------------------

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, a rare - almost unheard of confession by a Mormon of the secret "Adam-god" doctrine. Non-Mormons are not judged worthy to be instructed in this doctrine because of the "milk before meat" principle that the uninitiated are not worthy to receive the "deeper truths" of Mormonism.

Jeff - you are to be commended for at least honestly admitting that Mormons believe and teach this doctrine among themselves. If I may make a prediction, I suspect that you will be in a bit of trouble with "those in authority" for speaking so plainly, for "casting your pearls before swine..."

Regarding the persecution complex that many Mormon have, it is not "persecution" when others question your theological beliefs, and point out that they are contrary to the Bible. After all, your own esteemed leaders have called all other Christian denominations an "abomination" which preach a "dead" and false Gospel. But when you are challenged, all of a sudden you are being persecuted?

You claim to worship Christ as your Savior, but by your own words you deny who Jesus Christ really is - the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, the Creator and Redeemer of mankind. What you believe is that YOU WILL ONE DAY BECOME AS CHRIST WAS - THAT YOU WILL BE ON THE SAME LEVEL AS CHRIST - THE GOD OF YOUR OWN WORLD. This is blasphemy.

What will happen is this: "For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:9-11)

No created being can ever be on the same level as Christ. No created being can share His eternal glory. EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW to Him - there are no other Mormon worlds and other Adam-gods throughout the universe. JESUS CHRIST is and will always be at the center of God's heaven as described in the book of Revelation - a heaven which is very different than the Mormon concept of the afterlife.

The Apostle Paul warns that if we do not worship Jesus as he is, if we preach "another gospel" other than that revealed in the Bible, we will be "accursed":

"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!" (Galatians 1:9-11)

245 posted on 02/13/2012 3:03:51 PM PST by tjd1454
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 243 | View Replies]

To: tjd1454
From Matthew, in Jesus Christ's own words, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect."

From Romans, by Paul, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our Spirit that we are the Children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and JOINT HEIRS WITH JESUS CHRIST, if so be that we suffer with Him, that we might also be glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us."

John taught the same.

We simply believe that they meant what they said. Jesus Christ wants us to become as perect as the Father, and through the grace of His atonement, we can, and ultimately be joint heirs of the Father with Christ, whom the scriptures clearly teach in the New Testament, inherited all that the Father hath.

There will be no scolding...I have served in Bishoprics myself and bearing this testimony is not viewed badly, or "wrong" in the least.

Anyhow, it is clear that we differ on this...but it has no bearing on my salvation through Christ Jesus and Him crucified and resurrected. That is the essential doctrine...and the scriptures also clearly teach that no man can confess Christ Jesus and Him crucified except moved upon by the Holy Ghost. I so testify of Him to you, tjd1454, now.

Others may judge between us for themselves, but I am grateful that Christ will judge me and my heart, because He knows of my acceptance of His wonderous gift.

God bless you for your own acceptance of Christ and the good you do in bringing others to Him. I will continue to go about trying my best to do the same.

246 posted on 02/13/2012 3:21:33 PM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 245 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman
Bully bigots generally target those least likely and/or fewest in number to fight back.


Ma'am; do we REALLY look like bullies to you???



247 posted on 02/13/2012 3:36:02 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 241 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Oh brother. Like that ever happened. There is in-fighting even among the brethren. And Cain killed Abel. Nothing new under the sun.


248 posted on 02/13/2012 3:40:16 PM PST by Paved Paradise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Forgot to post my p.s. to you, Elsie. What was your point exactly? Other than to insult.


249 posted on 02/13/2012 3:41:07 PM PST by Paved Paradise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head
Fair enough. Due to its length I'll read it tomorrow.

Yes, I did post this thread because I wanted more information about how it might effect the election.

No, I did not mean to stir up a $#!+$+0rm over it. Christian or not, what's so difficult for responsible adults about a straight answer, whatever it might be, with civility, like the one posted by Charles Henrickson?

Thanks again for the straight answer from your side of the matter, and I hope you're doing well these days.

250 posted on 02/13/2012 4:00:03 PM PST by OKSooner (Today's new tagline. Tomorrow's new tagline pending.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 243 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250251-270 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson