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Dungy: Gregg Williams’ Redskins may have started Peyton Manning’s neck issues
Yahoo Sports ^ | 3/3/2012 | Doug Farrar

Posted on 03/03/2012 5:03:26 PM PST by GreaterSwiss

By the time the "BountyGate" scandal investigation is over, the only thing former New Orleans Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams might not have been blamed for is whatever gas prices happen to be at that time. And now that the bounty system he participated in while with the Saints can be traced back to his time as the Washington Redskins' defensive coordinator, facts that previously came to light are now going under the magnifying glass with a much harsher light cast on them.

Last September, Cindy Boren of the Washington Post wrote an article in which ex-Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy put the start of Peyton Manning's longstanding neck injuries and surgeries at a game between the Colts and the Redskins on October 22, 2006. On one play, Manning was given a "high-low" hit by defensive linemen Andre Carter and Phillip Daniels. Those types of hits, in which two defensive players aim for different halves of an offensive player's body, are among the most dangerous in football.

The guy wouldn't let go of my head," Manning said after the game of Daniels, who was fined $5,000 by the NFL for the hit. "I looked at my helmet to see if my head was in it."

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

KEYWORDS: nfl; scandal
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To: GreaterSwiss; All
i've read articles from different sources on both the current saints' bounty system and the hit on manning and found some interesting dots. i don't know whether it's appropriate to connect them or not.

(1) i'm curious about the anonymous saints player who told yahoo sports that williams said

"If you cut the snake's head off, the body will die. It was made clear that he was talking about not just running backs who turned their heads the opposite way and how they would go down, but also about other stars on offense that were the best players on that team."

the snake/head expression is common when used in other ways, such as taking out the key man. but that doesn't make complete sense in the context of the rest of the comment. what's the part about turned heads and how they would go down? is it about hitting them when their heads are turned? even that doesn't make perfect sense in the context. is it about going for the head? i hate to think that's the case - especially if you note the point below, that the bounty program may have included extra payments for sending somebody to the hospital.

(2) i just noticed that after the game in which peyton manning took this hit (well, this grab and pull), manning said “The guy wouldn’t let go of my head. I looked at my helmet to see if my head was in it.” phillip daniels - the guy who 'wouldn't let go' of manning's head, was fined $5k for the hit. what is fascinating is the daniels' choice of words when he was approached by the media for a quote on the bounty program in other, non-manning, stories. daniels is currently the redskins' director of player development. daniels said:

"I think it is wrong the way they're trying to paint [Williams]. He never told us to go out there and break a guy's neck or break a guy's leg. It was all in the context of a good, hard football."

unless somebody mentioned manning to williams as part of the question, it was odd that daniels chose to say "break a guy's neck" when he was asked about williams' bounty program, given what daniels did to manning while playing under williams.

(3) some sources are saying that the bonuses went up to as much as $8,000 for certain hits. the median nfl salary is $777,000 dollars; or $38,850/game, counting pre-season; the average is $1.9 million, or about $95,000 per game); . $8K (or even $1,000 or $1,500) doesn't sound as small in proportion to salary as some people are making out - at least not for the average player.

(4) we've heard there were bonuses for knocking people out of games or sending them off on carts. some sources are saying there was also a bonus level for sending somebody to the hospital. i haven't seen the bounty pool structure (and it may have changed from time to time).

(4) the bounty pool wasn't just an internal saints thing. michael ornstein, the marketing agent (convicted of fraud) who had ties to reggie bush and saints' coach sean payton, contributed $10,000 to a bounty fund for opposing quarterbacks in 2009, at contributed additional money at least twice more. and he wrote an email about the bounty fund to payton.

(5) football is a brutal game and i've heard stories since my youth of players trying to knock opposing players out of of game. anything, however, you hear people screaming 'everybody does it' you have to consider that 'it' often remains illegal (within the rules of the game or at law) even if everybody does it, and that there are proportionalities involved. it's one thing to try to hit a guy so hard he flinches the next time he goes across the middle. it's a different level when you try and knock him out or to send him out on a cart. if another tier was trying to send him to the hospital, then that's another level. it's another thing to pay people to do it, and to be caught doing and and to continue doing it when you were told to stop.

and if - if - you were paying to send people to the hospital as well as knocking them out of the game and if - if - you specifically talked about going for the head . . . then i view the peyton manning hit in an interesting new light.

just thoughts.

41 posted on 03/04/2012 6:59:18 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: TexasSecede79366

But I dont think Jack would go out of his way to cause an injury that would end someone career and by therefore his paycheck.
This Whole thing with the Saints stinks. It is another instance of the “Thug Culture” in the Nation Felon League.

42 posted on 03/04/2012 7:18:22 AM PST by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: Darren McCarty

I was at the real McCarty’s first home game for the Grand Rapids Griffins, AHL team of the Detroit Red Wings, on his comeback when he scored a hat trick. One in each period. During that first media timeout in the first period they were showing the video of McCarty beating up Lemieux. The Lake Erie team, AHL team of Colorado, had their goalie and 4 of the 5 skaters watching the video.

43 posted on 03/04/2012 7:35:05 AM PST by Eric Roelfsema
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To: GreaterSwiss

I have a hunch that Williams who was just hired by Jeff Fisher and the Rams may be unemployed soon.

44 posted on 03/04/2012 8:12:43 AM PST by Old Retired Army Guy
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To: TexasSecede79366
When I graduated from high school I was a 9 year veteran.
Wow, that beats John Belushi's record at Faber College.
Probably also explains why you advocate violence in sports.
45 posted on 03/04/2012 8:27:07 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: FlyVet; Impy; WesG; Mears

“I remember when Robert Parrish slapped Bill Laimbeer to the floor in front of God and everybody, and the refs didn’t call a foul. Things even out”

That was the original ‘bitch slap” IMO. Loved it then, still love it!

46 posted on 03/04/2012 9:15:56 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (The Establishment is the establishment.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“That was the original ‘bitch slap” IMO. Loved it then, still love it!”


Good Lord,a sexist comment on FR———hope no DUmmies see this,they are humorless feminists.

I’m just feminine and like it that way.

By the way,I had to deal with Robert Parrish several times over the phone regarding a utility problem he was having at his home in Weston. Pure class——a wonderful guy.

47 posted on 03/04/2012 2:27:26 PM PST by Mears (Alcohol. Tobacco. Firearms. What's not to like?)
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To: Mears; Impy; Perdogg; fieldmarshaldj
I call men “bitch”; to me it's a unisex term of endearment.

That's nice to hear that The Chief wasn't just a weed toking, wife beating thug stories led us to believe he was.

He was always my favorite of the “Big Three”, and I think he was vastly under appreciated.

48 posted on 03/04/2012 7:45:57 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (The Establishment is the establishment.)
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To: FlyVet

Sure.. just like drawing a foul in basketball. If you decide you want to take a hit and you get hurt.. I understand what you are saying. In football that’s never the issue. It’s very hard to draw a facemask or draw a blow to head... sure maybe the latter is possible.. but unlikely. I think you might be a basketball or baseball fan who doesn’t watch football. If that wasn’t the case you wouldn’t be saying such things.

49 posted on 03/04/2012 8:35:50 PM PST by Almondjoy
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To: Almondjoy
I watch plenty of football. Did you see the Denver vs. Pittburgh game, in which Harrison took out Eric Decker's knee? He was obviously trying to hurt him, and he did. Took him out of the game, and it was a perfectly legal hit. No penalty, no fine. That's the way it goes. It's a brutal game.

I've seen it plenty of times in football, that a receiver is guilty of his own hanky-panky, pushing off, yet draws an interference call. Happens all the time. It depends upon what the refs see, or don't see. Or overlook.

50 posted on 03/04/2012 9:32:17 PM PST by FlyVet
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