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BYU study: Guns don't give people advantage during a bear encounter
Deseret News ^ | March 8, 2012

Posted on 03/08/2012 10:58:38 PM PST by Zakeet

Conventional wisdom isn't always based on common sense, and sometimes isn't even based on real data, especially when it comes to animals of mythological proportions like bears.

BYU wildlife biologist Tom Smith wants to change that.

A new study suggests that one of the most commonly suggested deterrents against bears in the wild — guns — actually won't protect people any better than not using a gun.

"It really isn't about the kind of gun you carry,” he said. “It's about how you carry yourself. We need to respect an animal that could potentially take our lives."

[Snip]

This isn't the first time Smith has had a study showing that guns aren't as effective against bears as generally believed. In 2008, Smith released a study saying that bear spray is more effective than guns.

Part of the problem is that shooting accurately is very difficult in a terrifying situation like having a giant animal charging at you. Even if you do kill the bear, that's still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.

"It's a conservation issue in that we'll see needless bear mortalities," Smith said.

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; bear; guns; hunting
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To: Zakeet; Utah Binger
In a recent poll of over 497 bears, both in the wild and in captivity; this fact was made quite evident:


Guns don't give people advantage during a bear encounter.


It also makes for a much more enjoyable meal.
51 posted on 03/09/2012 3:53:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zakeet

Thank you Lord, for what we are about to receive...

52 posted on 03/09/2012 3:55:21 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zakeet

“You really don’t come here for the hunting; do you?”


53 posted on 03/09/2012 3:55:59 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zakeet
Conventional wisdom isn't always based on common sense, and sometimes isn't even based on real data, especially when it comes to animals of mythological proportions like bears.

These BYU folks 'believe' a LOT of stuff that the rest of us; well; just find hard to accept.


Conventional wisdom isn't always based on common sense, and sometimes isn't even based on real data, especially when it comes to a religion of mythological proportions like MORMONism.

54 posted on 03/09/2012 4:02:52 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: fso301
I thought the only thing you need in bear country is a companion that you can outrun.

That why you also carry a .22 pistol so you can shoot you friend in the knee to slow him down. /s :>)

55 posted on 03/09/2012 4:32:47 AM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: riverrunner
Having killed several bears and seen more then that killed I assure you a properly placed head shot kills bears quickly.

You drop somebody into the woods who knows little about bears and guns with his 9mm in front of an angry bear, I'm betting on the bear.

Of course, if the guy did not have a 9mm, the odds are stacked even more in the bear's favor.

If you were to sit down with God and design a critter to resist gunfire while coming at you to kill you quick, you would come up with something that looks a lot like a bear. Not that it's impossible, but I'd rather be in Philadelphia.

But all of this is irrelevant when it comes to the right to keep and "bear" arms. Most guns are designed to be effective against humans, and that is why the right is guaranteed. Using a gun designed to be effective against humans against bears is selecting the wrong tool for the job.

The old joke is that the word "ducks" does not appear in the Constitution. Of course, the word "bear" does, but not in that context.

56 posted on 03/09/2012 4:34:39 AM PST by Haiku Guy ("The problem with Internet Quotes is that you never know if they are real" -- Abraham Lincoln)
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To: rolling_stone
LOL

**It's about how you carry yourself**

I carry a .357 because I can't carry a conservation officer carrying a can of bear spray.


57 posted on 03/09/2012 4:36:42 AM PST by Daffynition (On Andrew Breitbart: In his honor, I'll fight harder...He'll be back and he'll be millions.)
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To: Raycpa
A heavy load to bear...


58 posted on 03/09/2012 4:42:37 AM PST by Daffynition (On Andrew Breitbart: In his honor, I'll fight harder...He'll be back and he'll be millions.)
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To: Zakeet
Even if you do kill the bear, that's still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.

NOT still a problem. The only population I'd worry about declining is ME. Kill bear, problem solved. The only contribution to the world that I'm responsible for is mine. Kill bear, problem solved.

59 posted on 03/09/2012 4:43:46 AM PST by Lady Lucky (Gingrich 2012: Open Throttle for America)
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To: DuncanWaring
...or flares...


60 posted on 03/09/2012 4:44:51 AM PST by Daffynition (On Andrew Breitbart: In his honor, I'll fight harder...He'll be back and he'll be millions.)
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To: Zakeet

Does this wonder-weapon, pepper spray, work as well on the government? Then we’re saved, lads! Hooray!

Where can I buy the accessories? You know, like the will-to-use-it patch?


61 posted on 03/09/2012 4:47:17 AM PST by Lady Lucky (Gingrich 2012: Open Throttle for America)
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To: Doug Loss
"Just what does a bear contribute economically, unless it's his pelt and meat?"

Ammo sales maybe? :)

62 posted on 03/09/2012 4:48:43 AM PST by Mich Patriot (I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Elsie
A sharp *smack* on the nose will do it every time. :)


63 posted on 03/09/2012 4:48:49 AM PST by Daffynition (On Andrew Breitbart: In his honor, I'll fight harder...He'll be back and he'll be millions.)
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To: Daffynition
I have GOATS that'll go for yer THROAT!!



64 posted on 03/09/2012 4:53:21 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: goat granny

Look above


65 posted on 03/09/2012 4:53:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Haiku Guy

A few years ago a fisherman killed a chargeing brown bear with one shot from his 9mm any gun is better then no gun.


66 posted on 03/09/2012 4:58:03 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: Lady Lucky
"NOT still a problem. The only population I'd worry about declining is ME. Kill bear, problem solved. The only contribution to the world that I'm responsible for is mine. Kill bear, problem solved."

Well put Lady Lucky. The problem with this guy is that, like most libtards, he cares more about a bear than he does a human. Humans are destroying the planet, dontcha know.

67 posted on 03/09/2012 4:59:39 AM PST by Mich Patriot (I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Daffynition

At that range most any gun shoved up against his head would drive a bullet into its brain.


68 posted on 03/09/2012 5:02:06 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: Elsie
LOL..if you'd put down that d@mn squeeze box...maybe they'd calm down! ;)


69 posted on 03/09/2012 5:04:12 AM PST by Daffynition (On Andrew Breitbart: In his honor, I'll fight harder...He'll be back and he'll be millions.)
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To: Elsie
Elsie, I am shocked. Shocked I tell you at your sangf-froid about the bear problem. We must not shoot bears because they are terribly endangered. Recently, a starving polar bear was spotted on a shrinking ice floe in the Gulf of Mexico off Tampa Bay.

Yes he attacked me,because he was hungry. I threw him a small illegal immigrant.

70 posted on 03/09/2012 5:07:04 AM PST by Kenny Bunk ((So, you're telling me Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Roberts can't figure out this eligibility stuff?))
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To: Zakeet

A lot depends on the gun. If it is a 375 H&H Magnum rifle, or a 12 gauge with slugs, it will probably help a lot. If it is a 44 mag or less - and I’m a 44 fan - then it probably won’t do a lot.

Pepper spray? Get real...


71 posted on 03/09/2012 5:09:45 AM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: DarthVader

More publish or perish crap!


72 posted on 03/09/2012 5:19:05 AM PST by chainsaw (Sarah Palin is still my first choice to save the USA. . .)
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To: Kenny Bunk

Kenny,

That was not Polar Bear, it was just a ‘flamer’ dressed in white, and it was hungry, but what is was hungry for was adequately supplied by that mini-pack wetback you threw to it.

Gotta watch your species identification during weekend 3 AM encounters. I was unaware you did any fishing in the turning basin alongside the Ybor City/Aquarium trolly line. That’s a dangerous place to fish as all sorts of drunk and drugged things fall into the water.

Be careful because there’s no telling what you might find decorating your hook if you keep fishing there. Why do you think that Tampa Light Rail thingie is called a “Troll”y?

;-)


73 posted on 03/09/2012 5:34:03 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Zakeet
"It really isn't about the kind of gun you carry,” he said. “It's about how you carry yourself.

Indeed. If you're carrying a serious caliber, you will carry yourself with serious caliber - and ain't no predator gonna mess with you.

Old saw:
A: "You're armed. What are you afraid of?"
B: "Absolutely nuthin'!"

74 posted on 03/09/2012 5:41:36 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Mr Rogers

Pepper spray = condiment


75 posted on 03/09/2012 5:42:43 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Lady Lucky
Does this wonder-weapon, pepper spray, work as well on the government? Then we’re saved, lads! Hooray! What happens if its raining or the wind is blowing towards you and away from Mr Bear?
76 posted on 03/09/2012 6:01:02 AM PST by USAF80
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To: Daffynition

Someone needs to re-take their PhotoShop lessons.


77 posted on 03/09/2012 6:02:03 AM PST by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: USAF80
What happens if its raining or the wind is blowing towards you and away from Mr Bear?

I dunno. What?

78 posted on 03/09/2012 6:03:43 AM PST by Lady Lucky (Gingrich 2012: Open Throttle for America)
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To: chris37

May I suggest FOX LABS spray? Carried by many LEOs. Never had a failure. Also had a wiff or three of it. Most unpleasant!


79 posted on 03/09/2012 6:13:06 AM PST by donozark (We're ALL Greeks now...)
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To: Lady Lucky

Mr Bear get a happy meal I suppose.


80 posted on 03/09/2012 6:21:47 AM PST by USAF80
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To: goat granny

Strange goat....

http://www.dogwork.com/ddsff4/


81 posted on 03/09/2012 6:58:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zakeet

82 posted on 03/09/2012 7:15:35 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Zakeet
The crux of the problem is this:

"Part of the problem is that shooting accurately is very difficult in a terrifying situation like having a giant animal charging at you."

What this really means is that most folks carrying a gun in bear country have not practiced NEARLY enough. It's also a good idea to simulate the stress as much as possible, for instance by running a bit right before shooting. Also timed shooting helps.

Another bottom line is that one should never retreat from the bear - especially don't turn and run! Your only hope is to intimidate it, then use countermeasures as necessary.

By the way, if the wind is wrong for the bear spray, all you'll do is give yourself a nice Szechuan flavor for the hungry bear...

83 posted on 03/09/2012 7:22:09 AM PST by PreciousLiberty (Real Hope - Santorum '12!!!)
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To: Zakeet

There is a reason they call it “the Utah Effect” and a big reason is BYU. Things seem to happen in and around Utah that are not replicable anywhere else.


84 posted on 03/09/2012 7:32:03 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to DC to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Retired Greyhound

Good advice. A lot better than spray and pray. LOL!!!


85 posted on 03/09/2012 7:35:06 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: hiredhand

Ping.


86 posted on 03/09/2012 7:35:34 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Zakeet

Maybe this Mormon charlatan thinks Freemason icons will work better...

or a Jupiter stone...

while wearing magic Underoos of course...


87 posted on 03/09/2012 8:04:15 AM PST by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: mkmensinger

Silly

bang 2 sticks together...

Didnt you ever see The Parent Trap when you were a kid ???


88 posted on 03/09/2012 8:06:09 AM PST by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: patriot08
About the photo; did he kill the mother and the cubs?

Look at it again and this time read what is written there. They are all temporarily disabled.

89 posted on 03/09/2012 8:13:46 AM PST by OldPossum (ou)
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To: OldPossum

Sorry, that quote comes from the article. You have to click on the complete article.


90 posted on 03/09/2012 8:15:23 AM PST by OldPossum (ou)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Sticks are for mountain lions.


91 posted on 03/09/2012 8:21:57 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: mkmensinger

Don’t forget how to identify grizzly scat.


92 posted on 03/09/2012 8:25:57 AM PST by magslinger (If I wanted to vote for a Commie I would vote for Obammie. He has a chance of winning.)
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To: donozark

Yep, I will look this up later on today. The bottle I have came from bass pro shop.

I was really surprised at how short the range is. If that pitbull had been a charging bear, I think my dog and I would have been hamburger.


93 posted on 03/09/2012 8:28:36 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: fso301

a good walking stick is all you need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9XIdaL0UX4


94 posted on 03/09/2012 8:37:07 AM PST by CJ Wolf
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To: Zakeet

You just have to remember to draw your anti-sea bear circle, hopefully it works with land bears, too.

95 posted on 03/09/2012 8:40:36 AM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Retired Greyhound

“Spray first, then shoot.”

Huh? You say that as though you’ll have all the time in the world to spray, switch to the gun, then shoot. Bears don’t play that fair.


96 posted on 03/09/2012 8:43:32 AM PST by CodeToad (NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!)
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To: X-spurt
LOL


97 posted on 03/09/2012 8:50:19 AM PST by Daffynition (On Andrew Breitbart: In his honor, I'll fight harder...He'll be back and he'll be millions.)
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To: chris37

Who was the manufacturer of the bear spray you used?


98 posted on 03/09/2012 9:46:21 AM PST by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Haiku Guy
If you were to sit down with God and design a critter to resist gunfire while coming at you to kill you quick, you would come up with something that looks a lot like a bear.

More likely a cape buffalo or a gaur but bears would be high on the list. About half of the critical target area of the giant bovines is covered by the boss of those horns which even the most powerful of rifles can't always penetrate.

99 posted on 03/09/2012 10:15:01 AM PST by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: Zakeet

Explain it to Greg Bush who saved his life by drawing his Ruger .454 Casull revolver and dispatching this charging Grizzly.

Twig snap alerts dog-walker to charging grizzly

100 posted on 03/09/2012 10:30:07 AM PST by nonsporting
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