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How I Stopped Drowning in Drink
Wall Street Journal ^ | March 16, 2012 | Paul Carr

Posted on 03/18/2012 3:47:30 PM PDT by nickcarraway

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To: nickcarraway

Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith had nearly four years sober, when they wrote the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And both remained sober for the rest of their lives.

This guy has about 2.5 yrs.

I’ll stick with AA, flaws/weaknesses and all.

Served me well for 18 yrs, 1 month and 13 days.


51 posted on 03/18/2012 4:46:28 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: nickcarraway

Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith had nearly four years sober, when they wrote the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And both remained sober for the rest of their lives.

This guy has about 2.5 yrs.

I’ll stick with AA, flaws/weaknesses and all.

Served me well for 18 yrs, 1 month and 13 days.


52 posted on 03/18/2012 4:46:41 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: Revolting cat!

‘Cat, you are hot today!!!!


53 posted on 03/18/2012 4:47:20 PM PDT by bobby.223 (Retired high up in the mountains of the American Redoubt and it doesn't get any better than that!)
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To: Hildy; Revolting cat!
I will say this just once as you apparently know nothing of alcoholism... An alcoholic can NEVER drink moderately. if he can, then he isn’t an alcoholic. It’s as simple as that.

That's a true statement.

FWIW, I worked in bars also, and I'm married to a retired medical doctor, who practiced psychiatry for 35 years. There is no such thing as a "moderate drinking" alcoholic, because alcoholics are powerless over alcohol. They cannot control their intake in the long run, be it a week, month or year.

Don't kid yourself.

54 posted on 03/18/2012 4:48:02 PM PDT by onyx (SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC, DONATE MONTHLY. If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know.)
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To: eastforker
"You guys are so full of crap it’s pathetic, many alcoholics maintain daily!"

Yea, then they didn't drink the way I drank.
A hard-drinker is not necessarily the same as an alcoholic - no sane person could ever drink the way I drank - for long.

55 posted on 03/18/2012 4:50:49 PM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: eastforker

You could set your watch by my grandmother’s drinking, coffee until noon, beer from noon to 5, screwdrivers from 5 to bed time. Almost certainly an alcoholic, but never missed a day of work (or other obligation) from it, so definitely functional.


56 posted on 03/18/2012 4:50:49 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: truth_seeker

First of all, you have to want to be alcohol free for it to work. How about those that don’t wan’t to be alcohol free, what do you have for them? Just because you drink doesn’t make you a bad person, well, some people it does, but not everyone.


57 posted on 03/18/2012 4:51:06 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: discostu

You don’t have to share at an AA meeting. The are no rules.

If someone truly wants to stop drinking, they will do whatever needs to be done.


58 posted on 03/18/2012 4:52:57 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: discostu

My point exactly, definition of an alcoholic, someone dependent on alcohol, doeasn’t mean they couldn’t function!


59 posted on 03/18/2012 4:54:50 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: eastforker

You function.. Until you can’t. If or when that time comes, know there is help out there.


60 posted on 03/18/2012 4:55:04 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: Hildy

There’s no “rule” but the point of the meetings is to share, those who absolutely positively never share (which is a pretty solid description of my life) aren’t really working the program.

Now on your second point you’re right. But it’s good to keep in mind for the vast majority of them that’s something OTHER than AA.


61 posted on 03/18/2012 4:58:07 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Hildy

Been functioning for over 35 years, next step is the grave yard.


62 posted on 03/18/2012 4:58:07 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: eastforker

It’s funny that you keep thinking we are talking about you.


63 posted on 03/18/2012 5:00:34 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: Hildy
One day I am going to die of something. alcohol, nicotine, caffeine or maybe catfish poisoning. I will die a happy man!
64 posted on 03/18/2012 5:01:45 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: Hildy

You keep pinging me so I expect you are talking to me!


65 posted on 03/18/2012 5:03:35 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: eastforker

TO you... Not necessarily about you.

Just my last piece of information, and I hope you know that I am not your enemy. Functioning has nothing to do with living. Please think about it. And in case you’re wondering, that’s TO you.


66 posted on 03/18/2012 5:07:20 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: truth_seeker
HOOAH.

ODAAT.

67 posted on 03/18/2012 5:08:30 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Shut up and drill.)
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To: EDINVA; onyx; Lazamataz

It’s all in definitions. It appears that the accepted definition of a “real alcoholic” is one who cannot keep himself from drinking once he tastes a sip. I have a little problem with this definition as I have seen people who I had no doubt were alcoholics and who as I mentioned recovered to drink moderately. Whether they stayed that way forever, I don’t know.

As someone noted above, everyone’s different and these widely accepted templates don’t fit every person under the sun. When I turned 40, for example, I was told I should need reading glasses, and I was told that for years afterward, while I never needed reading glasses and I would demonstrate it to opticians, ophtalmologists, and professors at the Optometry School.


68 posted on 03/18/2012 5:10:02 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: eastforker

“You guys are so full of crap it’s pathetic, many alcoholics maintain daily!”

Drinkers and even heavy drinkers maintain.

The commonly held definition of “alcoholic” implies problem drinker.

A problem drinker is not “maintaining.”

I “maintained” until I didn’t.


69 posted on 03/18/2012 5:11:56 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: Lazamataz

“He will remain self-centered and self-seeking”..that he is demostrating already, ha.

Yeah, just another guy with a book ..big whoop. I read that article and said”So what?”

Nobody at AA says it is the ONLY way and drag drunks into a meeting off the street. ha.

He makes it sound like he JUST now discovered a way to quit..duh..some people just quit, others use church, etc. etc. But the life changing behaviors often don’t happen without some sort of spiritual program.


70 posted on 03/18/2012 5:15:22 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (NEWT in 2012)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Lots of ways of getting sober. Lots of ways of getting spiritually fit.

My way happened to be AA.

Most everyone in AA would concur with what I wrote. :)

71 posted on 03/18/2012 5:19:43 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Shut up and drill.)
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To: Hildy

I’d say without a support system this man will probably drink again. I truly hope he doesn’t
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I agree with the author in terms of AA help etc, it just isn’t for me either.
But a blanket statement about the virtues or shortcomings of AA is no more appropriate than your statement of without a support system (AA?) one will fail.

I ‘cold turkied’ alcohol and tobacco in the same week in OCT 91 (right after my 52nd birthday) and, other than an occasional NA beer, I have touched neither since and did it without AA etc.

AA just isn’t for me, but if it makes others comfortable, that is what should they should use.

I also think the point the guy is making is that if you don’t ‘agree’ with the AA concept, don’t feel it is impossible to stop.


72 posted on 03/18/2012 5:23:06 PM PDT by xrmusn ((6/98) Let's start from scratch by voting ALL incumbents out.)
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To: nickcarraway; Hildy; Revolting cat!
but first I decided to read the organization's Twelve Steps, the program that members must follow.

This line that the author wrote, is predicated on a falsehood.

There are NO 'musts' in AA. I know plenty of AAs who never work a single Step. They are miserable cusses, so much so that even *they* refer to themselves as 'dry drunks'.

So it is suggested that an AA work the Steps, but there is no 'must'.

73 posted on 03/18/2012 5:25:00 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Shut up and drill.)
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To: Revolting cat!; EDINVA; Lazamataz; Hildy
I agree with you regarding definitions. I think some people think they're alcoholics when they're not and some are alcoholics and in denial.

I've known and know heavy drinkers who function and likewise alcoholics.

My husband has treated both. The individual must ultimately decide or by horrid circumstances, have that decision made for him or her. Only the individual truly knows.

A true, helpless and hopeless addict, will always return to his or her intoxicant of choice.

74 posted on 03/18/2012 5:25:31 PM PDT by onyx (SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC, DONATE MONTHLY. If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know.)
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To: Revolting cat!; EDINVA; onyx
Quick note: We often say, in the Program, that NO ONE has the right to call another an alcoholic. That is something that each person must decide for themselves.

However, powerlessness over alcohol, that is much more readily apparant. A person who drinks a drink, and then loses the power of choice on whether or not to have anotherandanotherandanotheranother and so on, until they are passed out, in jail, or in a hospital... that's a much easier call.

The official AMA definition of addiction (including alcohol) is "...the continued use of a mood altering substance or behaviour despite adverse consequences."

75 posted on 03/18/2012 5:31:13 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Shut up and drill.)
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To: Revolting cat!; EDINVA; Lazamataz; Hildy

I’m grateful that I can drink as drinking was intended, but my husband cannot.

Two drinks and he would be off and running, so you see he fully understands alcoholism first hand and was a wonderful psychiatrist for his patients, with a remarkable success rate.

Some were so badly harmed by their own actions and failures, they were suicidal, but are now successful again. Others are just blessed and grateful to be sober and enjoying life with their families back intact.

Alcoholism is an insidious disease and that’s how he treated it. He took away the shame.

God bless you all who suffer from it and best wishes and prayers for continued recovery.


76 posted on 03/18/2012 5:35:19 PM PDT by onyx (SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC, DONATE MONTHLY. If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know.)
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To: Lazamataz; Revolting cat!; EDINVA

Excellent point, and thanks very much, dear Laz!


77 posted on 03/18/2012 5:36:50 PM PDT by onyx (SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC, DONATE MONTHLY. If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know.)
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To: Ditter

I have the same problem.


78 posted on 03/18/2012 5:40:48 PM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: nickcarraway

Looks to me that you guys all married the wrong girl.


79 posted on 03/18/2012 5:42:17 PM PDT by Haddit
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To: nickcarraway

I’ve posted this before in alcoholism threads, but I want to keep touting naltrexone, the drug of choice for the “stubborn” drunk who can’t stop drinking on his own (or with help) but wants to. The Sinclair Method allows you to keep drinking on your regular schedule, but you take naltrexone before each drinking session — and the drug eventually takes away your desire to drink. No joke. Someone very close to me has had great success with this inexpensive drug (easily available from Canada, or your own doc if you can get them to prescribe it). The person I refer to has, in the space of a year, gone from drinking 12 - 15 beers at a time, three times a week, to drinking six beers at a time, once a week, or often once every two or three weeks. Just google “Sinclair Method” and “naltrexone.”


80 posted on 03/18/2012 5:46:09 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (If you back Newt . . . then SEND HIM MONEY!! "Be Breitbart, Baby!")
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To: RobFromGa

Ping


81 posted on 03/18/2012 5:50:22 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: nickcarraway

I know someone who is retired and drinks beer constantly. He would deny that he is an alcoholic but I think he is.

My father was an alcoholic and as a young man I feared that I possibly inherited the gene (if there is one). Luckily, alcohol does not appeal to me.


82 posted on 03/18/2012 5:54:25 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: Ditter

Sulfites in wine can cause allergic reactions - including headaches. Try something like a light rum...


83 posted on 03/18/2012 5:59:16 PM PDT by GOPJ (Democrat-Media Complex - buried stories and distorted facts... freeper 'andrew' Breitbart)
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To: loungitude; Ditter

I have a friend like that. We think it’s the tannins in wine that she’s allergic/sensitive to.


84 posted on 03/18/2012 6:00:01 PM PDT by Lizavetta (You get what you tolerate)
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To: Volunteer

There is no one size fits all answer to getting off addictive substances.


85 posted on 03/18/2012 6:11:17 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Popman

If I drank Bud, I’d probably give up drinking too.


86 posted on 03/18/2012 6:12:52 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Hildy

All he’s saying is it didn’t work for him. If people see problems with the 12 steps it isn’t going to work for them.

Besides AA isn’t necessarily the best for people who are addicts. Many, many AA goers give up alcohol but become smokers as they replace alcoholism with smoking addictions. I know this, I have family in AA and have been to meetings. Most AA people will tell you as much this is very, very common.


87 posted on 03/18/2012 6:16:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: ctdonath2

The writer doesn’t assume such.


88 posted on 03/18/2012 6:24:34 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Beware the Sweater Vest)
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To: Lazamataz
I knew I was powerless at age 16, when I would make myself throw up just so I could drink more. Now the unmanagability thing....THAT gave me fits for another 27 years.

Most of the AA haters don't understand the program is a design for living, rather than a ‘stop drinking’ program. They fail to understand that the alcohol was but a symptom. I gave testimony at my church a few months ago, and a large part of it included my journey in sobriety. Afterward, the pastor commented that he had no idea that the 12 steps were so spiritual.

And on the 5-10% success rate......the 12 steps that I follow have a nearly 100% success rate. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who have ‘thoroughly followed our path’ and gone back to drinking.

Sobriety in AA doesn't come through osmosis, it is a program of action. An example I use quite often in meeting:

I can sit in the best gym on the planet, watching everyone work out, take notes, order videos, hire personal trainers, etc. But until I take the action and put in the the work, I don't get any stronger.

Also...I'm not sure why they call them fifths, I could only get four out of a bottle!

89 posted on 03/18/2012 6:27:20 PM PDT by highnoon (BREAKING NEWS: Voter ID Law struck down so President can vote!)
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To: struggle

I used to drink on weekends too. Trouble was my weekends began on Monday.


90 posted on 03/18/2012 6:41:12 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

So what? This is about stopping drinking. When they’re ready they’ll stop smoking.


91 posted on 03/18/2012 7:21:55 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: Secret Agent Man

So what? This is about stopping drinking. When they’re ready they’ll stop smoking.


92 posted on 03/18/2012 7:22:08 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: Hildy

If you are happy with the solution to stopping drinking being becoming addicted to cigarettes that’s fine. But admit it’s trading one addiction for another. And it’s expensive and it will kill them a different way.

I never thought that a good solution for someone with an addictive personality is to just change what they are addicted to. If it was something healthy it wouldn’t be a problem. But smoking is far from good for them.


93 posted on 03/18/2012 7:34:46 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: highnoon

I think being accountable to other people makes most people stay sober. These people all give a crap about each other too.


94 posted on 03/18/2012 7:36:57 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

By the time someone gets to AA, drinking has or is about to ruin their lives...that’s paramount. My brother started smoking in AA. Never for a moment do I wish he were drinking instead of smoking. When the time is right, he’ll stop smoking.


95 posted on 03/18/2012 9:01:47 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: Hildy

Believe me, I get that. One addiction that kills you more slowly than the alcoholism. The short term survival, I get.

The longer term problem though is are you really breaking a person of addiction habits by continuing those addiction habits, just on something else less destructive but highly addictive itself? After all they have been through and may feel they have given up, now they have to give up smoking? Try that when you keep going back to a smoky AA meeting where almost everyone else is chain smoking.


96 posted on 03/18/2012 11:02:16 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

One day at a time.


97 posted on 03/18/2012 11:24:49 PM PDT by Hildy ("When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - SocratesHill not text while dri)
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To: Psalm 73
I'll have 17 years this May and I KNOW I'm not an expert, well maybe an expert at getting falling down drunk, I'm sure I didn't forget how to do that.

Every sober day that God gives me is a gift, one I'll never take for granted because if I do there may be no turning back.

I haven't been to a meeting in years but I know where there is one if I need it.

I'll never forget the day I quit, I was neither a religious person nor an atheist person, just a working class guy who did a lot of drinking, I was the guy that would have had "most likely to drink himself to death" in his high school yearbook except I was too busy drinking to even bother getting a yearbook.

Anyway, my wife had left with the kids and the house was half-emptied several weeks before. I tried to quit, I really did, went to meetings, outpatient rehab, everything, I still needed that drink.

One night, sitting at the kitchen table I yelled to myself, "I can't do this myself, I give up, you up there you want me to quit then help me, I'm done, please help" and He did.

From that moment I lost all desire to drink or better stated I was reset back to where I was before I took that first drink. I don't kid myself, this was a gift with strings, one drink and I'll be back on that nightmare train that got me here.

That was 1995, I continued to go to meetings for awhile, got back together with my family, my health improved, we bought another house, thankfully I never lost my job.

So I don't look like a nut I won't mention the incredible inner warmth, peacefulness and calmness that overcame me when that happened nor will I say anything about flashing blue lights, they could have just as easily been a good shot of whiskey and a police cruiser but I do know two things I no longer have the desire to drink and I am sure we are not alone in this world.

98 posted on 03/19/2012 12:12:57 AM PDT by this_ol_patriot (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner)
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To: this_ol_patriot
"I don't kid myself, this was a gift with strings, one drink and I'll be back on that nightmare train that got me here."

Amen, brother - those of us who know, KNOW.

99 posted on 03/19/2012 3:43:36 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: nickcarraway

The only support you need is the Lord Jesus.

The author messed up badly when he discounted the AA steps. That step, while watered down so as to not offend, all call on you to realize the IMPOTANCE of God and of surrendering your will to His.

I too had a drinking problem, resisted acknowledging it. It was costing me more than I could afford, it was also killing me through high blood pressure (at times 200/120).

I got saved, asked Jesus to be my Savior, He took that away from me, I can rely on Him to be my strength. Today, I am less poor everyday, as well, much healthier (114/70).

It is nothing but PRIDE, self-destructive PRIDE, that keeps people, even in self-destructive habits, from acknowledging God and the power He can have in a life.

Thank you Jesus for paying my debt, Thank you for loving me.


100 posted on 03/19/2012 9:52:38 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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