Skip to comments.Mystery solved? Turin Shroud linked to Resurrection of Christ
Posted on 03/30/2012 1:16:09 AM PDT by Swordmaker
The Turin Shroud has baffled scholars through the ages but in his new book, The Sign, Thomas de Wesselow reveals a new theory linking the cloth to the Resurrection.
For centuries the Turin Shroud, regarded by some as the burial cloth of Jesus, by others as the most elaborate hoax in history, has inspired extraordinary and conflicting passions. Popes, princes and paupers have for 700 years been making pilgrimages the length of Europe to stand in its presence while scientists have dedicated their whole working lives to trying to explain rationally how the ghostly image on the cloth, even more striking when seen as a photographic negative, and matching in every last detail the crucifixion narrative, could have been created. And still a final, commonly agreed answer remains elusive, despite carbon-dating in 1988 having pronounced it a forgery.
Thats what first attracted me, says Thomas de Wesselow, an engagingly serious 40-year-old Cambridge academic. Ive always loved a mystery ever since I was a boy. And so he became the latest in a long line to abandon everything to try to solve the riddle of the Shroud. Eight years ago, de Wesselow was a successful art historian, based at Kings College, making a name for himself in scholarly circles by taking a fresh look at centuries-old disputes over the attribution of masterpieces of Renaissance painting. Today, he still lives in the university city we are sitting in its Fitzwilliam Museum café but de Wesselow has thrown up his conventional career and any hopes of a professorial chair to join the ranks of what he laughingly calls shrouds.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
thanks for the post Swordmaker.
That's the thesis of the book, or the article about the book?
Thesis of the book... and the article is about the book, "The Sign"...
Yes, it is....and that’s why what could otherwise have been a good book is nonsense.
This guy lays out a good case for the authenticity of the Shroud (albeit he plows no new ground), THEN makes one hell of a leap in logic to declare that the disciples’ viewing of His image on the cloth is the entire basis for the resurrection (despite dozens of sightings of Christ post-crucifixion). Frankly, stuff like this just pisses me off.
Without a resurrection (not just viewing an image on a burial cloth), there IS no Christianity.
“the most elaborate hoax in history” sorry for off topic, but Obama is the most elaborate hoax, but it wont be fact for many years, when all are dead and buried.
He is risen indeed!
Remember the story of Doubting Thomas, and how Christ put his doubts to rest? Not an image, but live human flesh!
Luke 24:39 "Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Luke 24:40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
I can’t believe I read that whole article. I was expecting at least something interesting, but that was just dumb. It’s almost like the whole world is going nuts...
thanks for the warning
There is NOTHING that pisses me off worse than some theoretician or academic, so enamoured of their own opinion, or powers of persuasion, that they will actually attempt to make an argument like “second-hand smoke is MORE dangerous than smoking, itself”
Such theses aren’t “counter-intuitive.”
Know what an "expert" is? Someone who knows just this much more than you do on a particular subject....and lives more than 100 miles away.
The theory would be a plausible explanation for why some people 2000 years ago believed in spirits.
But as an explanation of the Shroud, it seems more dismissive.
Yeah. Brown smudges on a piece of cloth look JUST like a man walking through doors and talking and cooking fish on the beach and showing the wounds in his body.
What a crackpot.
Is there anything good coming out of UK? Condemned land!
How does anyone know that is what Jesus really looked like?
Yeah, and did the Shroud image eat a fish by the shore of Lake Galilee? Kinda of a silly thesis this guy has.
Te Shroud as an artifact could well have cemented and confirmed the appearance of the Resurrected Christ. But it was never wholly essential to the narrative.
So the disciples were so stupid that they ate with the Shroud?
I didn’t read the book, but I have heard that it was Judas wearing the sheet (he didn’t jump off the cliff, he just ran away).
And to try to repay his betrayal after the huge remorse he felt, he grabbed the sheet, and wore it around town once-in-awhile to help prove that Jesus was risen. I think he would put his hand over his mouth and disguise his voice.
This is in fact how Halloween got started. But instead of saying “Give me something to eat” you say “Trick or Treat”.
And then, after being seen by so many people over the many days (weeks?), he was afraid he might get found out, so Judas put some helium balloons under the sheet and let it fly up into the sky. (The disciples saw it and called it “The Ascension”)
The balloons finally popped over Italy and the shroud fell to the ground in Turin. The story gets pretty weird after that though, and pretty hard to believe.
“This Article refers to a new book that claims the Shroud of Turin is the REAL DEAL... and more importantly, IS THE BASIS for the claim that Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead... because The IMAGE ON THE SHROUD is what the apostles saw and mistook for the risen Jesus!”
I think that the evidence provided by the Shroud itself, as well as its history, makes it more likely than not that it is, indeed, Jesus Christ’s burial shroud (and it is pretty much *impossible* for it to be a hoax as most people believe). But the auhor’s theory that the image on the Shroud is the basis for the “claim” (a word that no Christian would use to describe the Resurrection) that Jesus Christ rose from the dead is absolutely ridiculous.
I have this picture in my mind of the apostles, gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem, being inspired to go out on missionary journeys that resulted in a Church that now numbers a third of the planet in its ranks. And they are looking not at the astonishing sight of Jesus himself, back from the dead, but at a cloth.
Both Greece and Rome has an elaborate visual arts culture that sets examples for serious artists today. Granted, not so much the Jewish culture, but the Greeks were all over the place, met with Jesus and joined the disciples. St. Luke was Greek and he described the supper at Emmaus. Were the Emmaus disciples sitting at supper with an optical illusion?
Besides, people buried other people, some of them bloodied, in burial cloths whether they had taken art appreciation classes or not. Then one particular burial cloth gave them a conversion experience?
This "academic" is sure good at selling books.
In the Maronite Catholic Church, the week following Easter is called the Week of Appearances. During this week, we read the gospel accounts of the various appearances of the Lord: to Mary Magdalene, the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, to Peter, the disciples on the road to Emmaus and the disciples gathered in the upper room. In overcoming the hesitation of Thomas, as you pointed out, the Lord revealed to the apostles the truth of the resurrection. Christ has risen, truly risen.
this was proven to be a fake 20 years ago, and then again ten years ago
You are very much mistaken.
How? The now invalidated C-14 tests done in 1988 that was proved in 2005 in three peer-reviewed research studies to have been an accurate test of a mixture of original shroud material and a 16th Century PATCH??? And NO science was done in 2002 that proved anything.
If it was "proven" to be a fake 20 years ago and then again 10 years ago, show us the science that did it. You can't find it.
...and carries a clipboard.
eh, ok three years ago:
The weave of the Tomb of the Shroud fabric, the new study says, casts further doubt on the Shroud of Turin as Jesus’ burial cloth.
The newfound shroud was something of a patchwork of simply woven linen and wool textiles, the study found. The Shroud of Turin, by contrast, is made of a single textile woven in a complex twill pattern, a type of cloth not known to have been available in the region until medieval times, Gibson said.
Both the tomb’s location and the textile offer evidence for the apparently elite status of the corpse, he added. The way the wool in the shroud was spun indicates it had been imported from elsewhere in the Mediterraneansomething a wealthy Jerusalem family from this period would likely have done.
Assuming the new shroud typifies those used in Jerusalem during the time of Jesus, the researchers maintain that the Shroud of Turin could not have originated in the city.
No human on this Earth can replicate the Shroud image. I sincerely suggest you read a few books on the Shroud. It would be very eye opening.
As for National Geographic, they are totally and almost completely dominated by anti-religious leftists. They go out of their way to propose very weak theories to try and discredit the Shroud.
We quite the NG many years ago -- their anti-human, anti-capitalist slant got to be too repulsive. Their 100% rabid support of AGW was the last straw.
As a simple point of logic, how does this disprove anything? The original source of the fabric says nothing about what was done with it after its manufacture.
Furthermore, the fact that Jesus was buried in a rich man's tomb should tell anyone with any kind of sense that assuming the shroud is typical for the area borders on being willfully obtuse.
The simple point of logic is that the shroud of the rich guy is made of probably the best (i.e. expensive) material of the time, and the “Shroud of Turin” is made of material so much more advanced that it couldn’t be from that time.
The shroud does have blood on it. And being Jewish, and dead things or things associated with dead things being unclean, I pretty much doubt they would have had the shroud nearby. Also recall that the image is not easily seen by the naked eye. It wasn’t until that guy took a photo of it and saw the negative that the image was really seen for what it was.
Obviously it would have been a relic even without seeing an image, which is why someone grabbed it (along with the head cloth - I forget what that is called, but it is at some other church, and has similar pattern of blood stains, etc.)
However, regarding the Jew’s aversion to things associated with the dead - I wonder who grabbed the clothes?
RE: Without a resurrection (not just viewing an image on a burial cloth), there IS no Christianity.
“so much more advanced that it couldnt be from that time.”
From what I have read, it was not common in Cannan, but was in use in Europe at the time. And not hard to believe that some rich guy might have some. And if he was a believer that Christ was the King, then would probably give the body the royal treatment with the fanciest stuff.
I just learned that the spices and stuff were only reserved for the burial of VIP’s back then. Most folks just got wrapped up and buried (no ceremonies, no waiting, just get them in the ground before they start to stink).
And because they were so spooked, they didn't notice Judas hiding behind it giving voiceover...
Re: Ok, where is this “proof”
That is neither a point of logic, nor what your post stated.
But now I see this is not an academic exercise for you....
There is a very precise and repeated commandment against blending wool and linen in the Torah - I find it highly unlikely that any believing Hebrew would use such a thing, even for a burial shroud -- That it was found among elite tombs would point to the occupant being an Idumean - An Edomite, like Herod the Great, who were installed by the Romans as a ruling class over Jerusalem and Israel. And whom, as Edomites, observed a bastardized form of the Torah, and may well have disregarded the commandment against mixing of textiles.
Of course, that is a speculation on my part...
Furthermore, Joseph of Aramathea, in whose tomb the Christ was laid, was a very wealthy man - It is no stretch of the imagination that he might well have obtained the very high value twill cloth for the burial... And wrt it's uniqueness as a burial cloth, remember that Jesus' burial was a rushed affair, with mere hours to get him into the ground before the beginning of Passover - So rushed indeed, that the women went after the fact to obtain proper embalming supplies - It is not unlikely that something out-of-the-norm might be used in such an instance. No doubt all the shops were already closed, as He died at the hour of the sacrificing of the lambs - at that time, every family would either be involved in the sacrifice, or would already be home preparing the lamb for the Passover feast...
My point being that one cannot necessarily point to a generic burial cloth (c. 1AD) and claim the shroud a fake because it does not match... Especially so wrt a burial cloth made of mixed textiles, which would have been forbidden by the Law.
‘But blessed are they who have not seen yet believe.’
[21twelve:] From what I have read, it was not common in Cannan, but was in use in Europe at the time.
An herringbone twill is a very old pattern, going waaaay back among the Celts, and present in Italy and Egypt earlier than Christ. It is hardly imaginable that it wasn't available in the middle-east, which was the trade center between east and west, not to mention it's popularity due to it's durable nature. I read somewhere that the 3/1 twill weave of the cloth was probably Italian by origin... Roman products were no doubt available on the local market.
Are you willfully ignorant or just lazily so?
What has been proven fake is the false claims and false testings. and the information is all documented for anyone to see/read/watch.
But, if you are simply honestly uninformed, Here's just ONE of many sources that might help you.
The History Channel will be re-showing their documentary next Friday, April 6th.
Perhaps you could watch it and get back to us?
For anyone who didn't catch this documentary a couple-three years ago - it's one one of the best yet on The Shroud.
Live link next post
next Friday night on History Channel -
The face image does look a bit like stylized art rather than a shadowgram of a human of typical Jewish lineage (the bible says He wasn’t handsome in a worldly sense, but neither does it peg Him as looking like an oddball). The face is vertically elongated and has almost straight sides. But again when you’re talking about a one of a kind person like Jesus Christ who can perform metaphysical works at will, all bets are off anyhow. If He wanted to leave an art print instead of a literal likeness, He could.
Good points, but I think, clearly even the Jews buried their dead, so the problem of handling blood on a dead person was resolved somehow. In fact, we know how it was resolved: the one who washed, embalmed and dressed the body went through a set ritual of purification. The same women, -- we know who they were, -- given the significance of the empty tomb and the preserved burial cloth -- would save the cloth.
But the aversion to blood might explain how it disappeared from view for centuries. The disciples knew it was sacred, but held back from handling or showing it without a direct need.
Right back at ya, silly, intellectually lazy, closed-minded dope:
Then - to try to figure out how the information from the body got onto the shroud they imagined various things. And they figured it might have been a narrow band of energy that scanned the body - just like a photocopier.
So they put a “photocopier” of sorts over the 3D model they had made, scanned it, printed it out, and came back up with a flat representation that looked just like the shroud. It's a pretty interesting show.
There was a gal physicist that is pretty highly regarded as I recall. She talks I think about how the Resurrection was something of a black hole event where time and space all come together or something. Pretty weird to me, but she talked about how much energy would be released in those types of events, etc.
“But the aversion to blood might explain how it disappeared from view for centuries. The disciples knew it was sacred, but held back from handling or showing it without a direct need.”
Makes sense, but I’m still sticking with my theory of why it went missing for so many years as laid out in post 21. ;)
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