Skip to comments.Baseball rule question (please don't kill me!)
Posted on 04/05/2012 1:25:54 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
I know the rules of baseball can be arcane and--dare I say it?--Talmudic. But I saw something in today's Braves/Mets opener that I simply don't understand. I've done a web search but come up blank.
It's the bottom of the second. Ike Davis is at bat for the Mets; first base is open. He has two strikes on him. He swings and misses at the third strike, but it barely touches the ground before being caught.
Now as I understand it, this entitled him to run for first base. But he didn't. Instead he informed the umpire that the ball had touched the ground (apparently the ump didn't see that) and, rather than being sent to first base, was given another pitch to swing at (what . . . ?). Ironically, he again struck out on a ball in the dirt and this time was thrown out at first base.
I have never seen this situation before and can't find any reference to it. Are there any baseball fan FReepers who know why this third-strike-not-caught got the batter an extra pitch rather than a chance to reach first base?
If I may add...........the signal for could tip is usually holding the right hand up palm down, near or above the shoulder and pass the the left hand, palm down, just above the right and two or three times move the left hand over the right hand as if brushing lint off your suit.
Not if the umpire only has one arm and it's on his left side.......
Dr. Kimball, is that you?
Ernie Harwell got a special mention before the game in Detroit today. Tigers had a good home opener winning against the Red Sox.
Yes and now we have replay also.
Actually I think Armando Gallaraga (And Jim Joyce) will probably be more notable in the record books for that game and blown call than if it had been called correctly.
A story for the ages.
My two Skip Caray favorites:
1) Ted Turner tells all Turner employees (especially CNN) that they are now forbidden to say the word "foreign". It's too nationalistic. Preferred substitute word "international". So when an umpire is checking out a pitcher to see if he was doctoring pitches, Skip chirps that the ump is looking for an "international substance".
2) Skip reacts to fellow broadcaster Jimmy Piersall after he is quoted as calling players' wives "whores". Piersall was best known for his psychological breakdown and recovery which was turned into the movie "Fear Strikes Out". Said Skip, "It looks like Fear actually lined a double off the fence."
I don't have the full history, but it was explained to me that the rule is like the infield fly rule. It is there to keep the catcher from intentionally dropping the third strike and throwing to second and then to first to get a double play. The runner on first can't be forced to run unless there is only one out left in the inning.
Not true that the hitter is officially “out”. He is not an “out” even though the pitcher is credited with a strikeout. So there can be more than three “strikeouts” in an inning, but never more than three “outs” in an inning.
The batter swung, missed, the catcher Brian McCann fielded the ball after a bounce in the dirt behind home plate. Home plate umpire called a strikeout. Third base umpire corrected the home plate ump because the ball was dead on contact with the ground.
There was no foul tip.
Uh, there is a little problem with your analysis there, Jac.
If there was no foul tip then the batter is out when he swings and misses at strike three. No such thing as “the ball is dead when it hits the ground”...unless it’s a foul ball.
If it wasn’t a foul tip, it had to be a checked swing.
“Out” in the sense of a “strikeout”. Not “out” in the sense of no longer playing that inning.
I never said he didn’t. I said he was a whiny little girl.
Still bothers me that the official scorekeeper didn’t clean that up best he could by ruling an E-1 on the play - at least the kid would have had a no-hitter
Exactly - if the ball was dead upon contact with the ground the White Sox would have never won Game 2 of the 2005 playoffs
When my son was a high school pitcher, he threw a five strike out inning.
yep it was a foul tip.
find the pitch on here and see what it says
Ike DavisStrike (foul), Strike (looking), Ball, Ball, Foul, Foul, Strike (swinging), I Davis struck out swinging
it was the first inning, not the second, and the pitch was recorded as a foul ball, meaning he foul tipped it and the catcher did not catch it before it hit the ground.
It has to hit the bat to be a foul ball. This was a swing and a miss. Or at least I thought it was.
All I know is, back in elementary school when the kids played softball during recess, the team at bat was said to be "in town." I've never heard that expression used anywhere else.
There was no foul tip.
I'm glad somebody saw what I've been talking about!
Would you kindly explaining what "dead on contact with the ground" means? Where in the official rules is this situation dealt with?
Why wasn't Davis directed to run toward first base or else tagged out by the catcher? Why was he given an extra pitch where the exact same thing happened?
I thought I said bottom of the first. If I didn't, that's what I meant to say. Sorry.
Anyway, thanks for clearing this up. I simply couldn't understand what happened and the announcers certainly didn't clarify anything.
Wait a minute . . . are you saying the swing occurred after the ball had hit the ground, thus ending the pitch? If so, it would have counted as a ball, wouldn't it?
On second thought, I'm not sure that whoever wrote that got it right. Davis struck out swinging, but he then was thrown out at first base. The writer apparently missed that and may have missed what happened on the previous pitch as well.
i believe that they do not record the throw to first base after a K.
that is an informal log in the press box. It is the best record available. There is an official scorekeeper, but he does not record every pitch.
Oh well. At least my team won.
they recorded it as a foul tip (foul ball). Sometimes the umpires make a mistake and call that even though it never hit the bat. And sometimes the ball hits the bat and the ump doesn’t see it.
Sometimes the ball hits the bat and the ump calls hit by pitch. sometimes the ball hits the player and the ump calls that it hit the bat.
I haven’t been to CitiField yet. Maybe this year.
No, I cannot explain the reasoning. I just know, like you, what we saw.
If you swing and miss on the a third strike and the catcher drops the ball the catcher has to throw out or tag out the hitter before he gets to first base.
Otherwise it is an error on the catcher.
If it was a foul meaning the batter touched it at all and the catcher drops it he gets another pitch.
If a foul tip on a third strike and the catcher catches it the batter is out.
Maybe the Illuminati are monkeying with us . . . and MLB is in on it!
I wouldn't put it beyond Selig. [/poor attempt at humor]
My Mets are 3 and 0.