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Forget Travel If You Owe The IRS ^ | 04/07/2012 | Robert W. Wood

Posted on 04/16/2012 1:55:48 PM PDT by freedommom

If he were in charge of travel, the Soup Nazi might say, “No Passport for you!” In real life, travel may seem unrelated to taxes, except perhaps for those annoying airport taxes on international destinations. But a bigger tax and travel connection could keep you at home—permanently. A tax law quietly proposed a few months ago—Owe IRS Taxes, Lose Your Passport—is quietly gaining momentum. Now more people have noticed. If you owe the IRS? You’re not going anywhere if this law passes. In America, we love to tinker with our tax laws. Congress is always introducing one bill or another to tweak an already bloated and increasingly dysfunctional tax system. It’s curious how ingredients go into the sausage, often making strange legislative bedfellows. Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) proposed that if you owe the IRS more then $50,000, you shouldn’t get a passport. See Sen. Orrin Hatch’s Memo to Reporters and Editors. Now this ‘we-need-the-money’ provision has morphed into Senate Bill 1813, introduced by Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA). It was introduced in November and passed by the Senate on March 14 “to reauthorize Federal-aid highway and highway safety construction programs, and for other purposes.” At best, there seems a titular connection between this provision and highway safety. Nevertheless, the law would authorize the federal government to prevent Americans from leaving the country if they owe back taxes. It was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid who proposed allowing the State Department to revoke, deny or limit passports for anyone the IRS certifies as having “a seriously delinquent tax debt in an amount in excess of $50,000.” Does this apply in all cases? Mercifully no. You could travel if your tax debt is being paid in a timely manner or in emergency circumstances or for humanitarian reasons.

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TOPICS: Education; Local News; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: governmentcontrol; irs; passport; travel
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To: Wurlitzer

Thanks for posting what I was thinking. I may have to become a gringo wetback and swim across or go to the Costa Rican embassy and ask for asylum.

21 posted on 04/16/2012 4:01:39 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: Westbrook


22 posted on 04/16/2012 4:02:23 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: freedommom

Your prayer is appreciated.

Psalm 46:10, “Be still and know that I am God”. Great verse for times like these.

23 posted on 04/16/2012 4:06:56 PM PDT by Aurorales (I will not be ridiculed into silence)
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To: freedommom
totalitarianism 101

let me get this ......... they won't do anything to keep illegals out ..... but they are proposing to keep citizens in?

24 posted on 04/16/2012 4:07:20 PM PDT by Elle Bee
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To: BipolarBob

> Thailand?

Southeast Asia is crawling with Muzzloids and Communists.

25 posted on 04/16/2012 4:08:19 PM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Westbrook
Problem is, where do I go?

Considering that the USA has the highest corporate tax in the world, if you are a business owner then you can pick any country and be better off.

Individual taxes vary, of course. Some people don't need to pay taxes - if they are "officially" poor. That means that they avoid banks and pay with cash. I know at least one such person.

There are other criteria, naturally - stability, safety, acceptance, availability of jobs, cost of living. You could go to Canada, or to Central/South America (modulo Mexico.) Perhaps New Zealand is peaceful enough, though I heard weather there is not always pleasant. Australia is a possibility, though you need to have high tolerance for snakes and spiders. Europe is a bad destination now, except maybe a few northern countries. Russia or China are a possibility if you are willing to pay bribes. East Asia has a few decent countries. Chances of getting into Japan are, I'd think, pretty low. In any of these cases you'd need a work permit, which is not a guaranteed affair short of marrying a local.

If I were to theorize, I'd say that Russia and China, and perhaps India, are today the most attractive destinations for a young, aggressive capitalist. This is because these countries recently shifted out of socialism (a very mild form of it in case of India,) and they are not likely to go back any time soon. The memories of empty shelves in Soviet stores are still too vivid. These countries are on the leading edge of the cycle, just like the USA was a hundred years ago. Everything is possible, everything is permitted - if you pay the right people. It's not a Wild West, but pretty close. The mature society of the USA is currently on the trailing edge of the cycle, encumbered with red tape, stifled by a huge and ineffective government, tangled in a web of laws that nobody can possibly know, and mired in internal conflicts that are tearing the country apart on racial and political grounds.

In general, more and more people start thinking about such things. The government needs more money, and this trend will never stop on its own. If you are willing to give 1/3 of your earnings to the government, in 5 or 10 years it will be 1/2, and then 2/3 ... in the end you will be working for the government 100% of your time, and the government will be paying you subsistence money to buy food at government-owned stores. Just like it was in USSR.

If that happens then there will be an exodus of people from the USA - and the USA will immediately put a stop to it, one way or another. Those who manage to escape will be competing for a limited number of jobs in foreign countries. Early escapees will have it easier. If you wait longer you only lose more money to IRS, and you become older too (and less competitive on the labor market.)

Some people say they will stay and fight. It is a possibility only if there is anything tangible to fight. However as things are, the only enemy that needs to be fought resides in minds of people. People need to embrace certain qualities of a free man - skills, knowledge, intelligence, abilities, willingness to do hard work, and pride. People need to say "no" to the oppressive government. But here lies the problem. At least half of the US population doesn't want to work (or cannot work) and instead prefers to rob the other half of their monies. The government offers itself to be the robber by creating taxes on those who work and paying the loot to those who do not. If you were to fight, you'd have to educate these 50% against their will and against their own interests. This is not going to work. Fighting is relatively straightforward only if there is a clearly defined enemy to be defeated. It is not enough to defeat the robber, you also need to defeat his masters - and their name is legion.

I can only see one obvious solution here, and it lies in splitting the country into two or more, each with its own set of laws and its own government, and with means to enforce those laws. There are many hypothesized scenarios of violence, caused by any one out of several possible causes. But they all arrive at the same configuration in the end - at several enclaves, each living under its own laws. The USA will fragment because it has already fragmented; it's just the aging glue that still holds the pieces together. The country hasn't fallen apart so far only because the people haven't yet suffered enough.

26 posted on 04/16/2012 5:22:27 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: freedommom
Would this apply to Little Timmy Tax Cheat?


27 posted on 04/16/2012 5:41:07 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: EnquiringMind

Liberals will get a waiver.

28 posted on 04/16/2012 6:01:12 PM PDT by CharacterCounts (A vote for the lesser of two evils only insures the triumph of evil.)
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To: Ronin
This has other implications because if Obamacare is ruled Constitutional, and if severe restrictions start limiting what doctors and other medical professionals can earn are put into place, you can bet the Administration is going to start putting restrictions on who gets to leave the “Land of the Free”.

Directive 10-289. It will be interesting to see how many Republicans enthusiastically support this proposal.

29 posted on 04/16/2012 6:16:09 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Elle Bee

Yep. If you are not free to travel outside your country you do not live in a free country.

30 posted on 04/16/2012 6:49:40 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: freedommom

Next year the Bush Tax cuts sunset, child dependent refund goes from $1,000 to $500, and payroll (SS) reduction sunsets -so a family with a $50k income with be looking at a $1,700 increase. Many people won’t have the where with all to make adjustments according, in some cases the money is already spent/allocated.

Also, if Obama is still in office the economy will be ever worsening and he won’t give a damn in his second term.

I’m surprised more here don’t see this for what it is, it will get incrementally worse and impact other freedoms for ever lessor sums (as if forbidding the freedom to travel weren’t bad enough).

Privacy will openly be denied or forfeited if you run afoul of the government, they’ll have deeper pockets than you and it may take you years to cast off that yoke legally. Good luck!

31 posted on 04/16/2012 7:12:29 PM PDT by Fitzy_888 ("ownership society")
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To: ThirdMate

That’s what I was saying years ago. Fences stop transit in BOTH directons.

32 posted on 04/16/2012 7:15:01 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals:
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To: ctdonath2

Ron Paul was right.

33 posted on 04/16/2012 7:18:20 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Greysard

Excellent analysis.

I’ve been to Russia four times, and to Brazil three times, once for an extended stay.

I love St. Petersburg, and the Republic of Karelia, on the gulf of Finland. And I really love the White Nights.

You know that Russia is returning to its Imperial roots. The Imperial Crest of the Tsar is on the cover of every Russian Federation passport, and also as a watermark on every page. It also appears on their official documentation, and in the middle of their ceremonial flags.

I speak a little Russian, but I speak a LOT more Portuguese, so I have been tempted to seek refuge in Brazil. I have many friends there, and I know where to go. Because some of my children were born there, they enjoy dual citizenship. Thus, it would be easier for me to obtain residency.

It’s just that the U.S is the place of my birth.

Then again, my parents left Mussolini’s Italy to come to America to live free. Perhaps I may have to likewise leave the nation of my birth, though I am much older than they were.

Brazil is a free and easygoing society. They are run by commies and socialists, but nobody takes the government seriously. It’s a lot like modern Italy in that way.

34 posted on 04/16/2012 7:45:36 PM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Westbrook
"Bahia, os meus olhos estao brilhando
meu coracao palpitando
de tanta felicidade
Es a raina da beleza universal
Minha querida Bahia!"
35 posted on 04/16/2012 8:09:05 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan

Bahia, nao, amigo. Quero mais as regioes mais sul.

Estou pensando de Santa Catarina ou Rio Grande de Sul. Ha muito trabalho de high-tech no Porto Alegre.

Talvez mesmo Minas Gerais. Gosto o queijo mineiro muito! :)

Temos muitos irmaos cristao no Parana, tambem. Morei em Curitiba por um tempo.

36 posted on 04/17/2012 5:44:08 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: freedommom

...effectively turning the entire U.S into a debtor’s prison.

37 posted on 04/17/2012 5:49:46 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: freedommom

The USA continues to take away the freedom of Americans. This bill 1813 has already passed the senate, it is very important that you contact your representatives to oppose senate bill 1813 and request that the amendment giving new power to the IRS to revoke and suspend passports removed. It is very easy to contact your representatives by email, here is the link. Please oppose this bill today.

Below is my draft response to my representative, it may be helpful for other people that oppose this bill and also explains my views. You are welcome to use whatever you want when you contact your representatives.

I oppose S.1813 - Transportation Research and Innovative Technology Act of 2012. I also oppose the attached Amendment giving power to the IRS to revoke and suspend passports.

Specifically I oppose the bill because it creates additional spending and even more important I also oppose the attached amendment giving power to the IRS to revoke or suspend or renew passports. I oppose the IRS having the power to prevent or prohibit Americans from traveling. I oppose giving the IRS any additional powers. Please do what it takes to remove the amendment from Senate bill 1813 and all other bills it may get attached to in the future.

First of all Americans have the right to dispute an IRS claim and the amount of the dispute is unimportant. Second the amendment states that they can revoke your passport just for being late paying your taxes. Everyone knows the exorbitant penalties and high interest can hyper-inflate any claim to a much higher figure than what is mentioned in the amendment. The politicians in the senate are obviously trying to circumvent justice and give the IRS the power to strong arm the taxpayers and take away their right to dispute an IRS claim.

The IRS is already the most feared and ruthless collection agency in the world, politicians should be limiting the IRS powers not giving them more power. The politicians have promised to reduce the powers of the IRS many times before but instead they attempt to give the IRS more power. The hypocritical politicians need to be stopped now. Please also introduce a bill to reduce the powers of the IRS.

It is obvious once again the politicians that authored the amendment and attached the amendment to Bill 1813 and the senators that approved this bill 1813 are not thinking correctly. As a general rule the rich and the poor do not have tax disputes with the IRS of course their are a few exceptions but not many, it is the small business owners that have the majority of tax disputes with the IRS. In addition it is the small business owners that pay the majority of the taxes to the IRS. So the stupid or ignorant politicians that authored and attached and approved the amendment giving power to the IRS to revoke or suspend passports are targeting and attacking the small business owners which pay most of the taxes in the USA, that sounds kind of stupid to me. In addition the small business owners that do international business will be affected the most, unfortunately that is the fastest growing portion of American business. Small business owners that focus on international business are the companies that are hiring many people at this time. Obviously business owners that do international business need their passports to make money and pay taxes. Once again targeting and attacking the fastest growing and most vulnerable part of American Business sounds stupid to me. The amendment could obviously have a negative impact on the hiring of Americans and jeopardize desperately needed jobs. Please do everything possible to prevent bill 1813 from becoming law and remove all Amendments giving additional power to the IRS.

If this bill 1813 with the amendment giving the IRS power to revoke passports is ever passed, soon after some ignorant congressman will attempt to take away the drivers licenses of the American people for some frivolous reason. That will accomplish nothing and further anger and polarize the American people as well as erode American values and pride as well as restrict the freedom and liberty of Americans. I assume they may soon revoke all the driving licenses of Americans that cannot afford to pay their student loans or some other asinine reason. I am sure this will happen so please be prepared and vote no for any such action. Next they will restrict travel between states for unpaid government backed mortgages or loans or other reasons. These attacks on the freedom need to stop now.

Restricting Americans freedom to travel in order to help reduce the deficit is unconscionable and stupid.These soviet style tactics of limiting peoples freedom are going to backfire. As was in the other repressive societies in the past the wealthy and middle class people that can afford to will just leave the USA permanently and start paying their taxes to another country that does not have soviet style repression. Many wealthy and middle class people are already leaving the USA. So the end result would be that less people would be paying taxes. You already know this is already happening. This Senate Bill 1813 needs to defeated and the amendment giving power to the IRS to revoke and suspend passports needs to removed permanently from all bills. Please make sure it happens.

Everyone knows that the true cause of huge budget deficit and the astronomical debt is overspending and over borrowing. Always keep in mind that the politicians created the huge deficit and astronomical debt. The taxpayers with IRS disputes did not create this problem. If the debt was not so large and the taxes not so high and the IRS penalties not so unreasonable there would be far less tax disputes and no need to harass American taxpayers. The politicians created all this debt so it would better if you introduced a bill that gives the IRS the power to revoke the passports of the politicians that created this huge debt and deficit problem, please do that. This repressive amendment may be a feeble attempt to cut the deficit however it appears more like a distraction designed to distraction Americans from the real problem of overspending but it will obviously not work. It is not possible to reduce the huge astronomical debt by making the USA into a debtors prison. You could take away everyone’s passport and driving license and you still would not be able to fix the huge budget deficit and the astronomical debt of our country.

The amendment that gives the IRS the power to revoke or suspend passports is extremely repressive as well offensive. It is something you expect from Russia or China, not the USA. Turning the USA into a debtors prison is something I thought could never happen in the USA. This country has gone down hill rapidly, the politicians are destroying America. The amendment attached to Senate bill 1813 giving the IRS power to revoke or suspend passports proves that the government really is turning into a repressive regime against American’s right to freedom, liberty and the pursuit of justice. Already the USA has the highest percentage of it’s citizens in prison, a higher percentage than any other country in the world including Iran, China, Cuba and Russia. Now the politicians want to make the entire country a debtors prison, it appears that the politicians in the Senate may be mentally ill or intentionally trying to create a repressive regime to totally control it’s citizens. I value freedom and liberty above everything else as did my forefathers that founded and fought to keep this country free. The inclusion of the Amendment of giving additional power to the IRS in any bill is one step closer for the USA to becoming a police state. Please do everything possible to prevent this bill 1813 from becoming law and remove the amendment giving the IRS any additional power (including the revocation or suspension or preventing the renewal of passports).

Even though the huge debt and budget deficit is a catastrophic problem it appears that the Senate politicians would rather spend their valuable time harassing Americans instead of trying to find ways to cut the out of control spending. The only thing that will fix the huge deficit and the astronomical debt of our country is to cut spending so I am also instructing you to reduce spending now. I oppose any additional spending, I also oppose any additional debt. I want you to cut spending. Please concentrate on the problem of overspending and prevent socialist senate politicians from passing laws that give more power to the IRS to harass and imprison American citizens in their own country. The politicians caused the huge deficit now fix it by cutting spending and cutting borrowing.

Please vote no for all such amendments and bills that polarize the people and/or attempt to create class warfare and/or harass American citizens and/or limit Americans freedom and/or take away the rights of Americans to dispute claims with the IRS or make it more difficult to dispute claims with the IRS.

There is an ever growing erosion of American values and pride as well as an ever increasing embarrassment of being American. Politicians that create and pass laws that limit American freedom and erode American pride are making the USA the laughing stock of the world. America is supposed to be a role model for other countries when it comes to freedom. Instead now the amendment attached to bill 1813 giving power to the IRS to revoke or suspend passports prove that the USA is one of the most repressive governments in the world.

When I see attachments to bills like the one giving the IRS power to suspend or revoke an Americans right to travel it makes me sick. It makes me feel embarrassed to be an American. Please try to stop the other politicians from destroying our country. Can you imagine what reaction our forefathers the founders of this country would have if something like this happened 200 years ago? It is obvious that would have never happened because they understood what freedom means and fought and died for the freedom of Americans. Now politicians are trying to take away the freedom of Americans. So why is it happening now? I think you already know, this country is going bankrupt and bad politicians would rather polarize and harass American citizens than cut spending. As always politicians put their own interest in continuing their career as a politician ahead of the needs of the American people. The overspending socialist politicians are addicted to spending other peoples money (the tax payers) and borrowing more every chance they get.It is easy for them to spend other peoples money, specifically my money (Americans are responsible for the debt of their country.). That is sad and it makes me sick when politicians spend my money foolishly. I would never authorize anyone to use my money to overspend and then over borrow. I am instructing you to cut spending now and stop harassing Americans. Please oppose Senate bill 1813 and remove the amendment giving the IRS power to revoke, suspend or refuse renewal of passports.

It is hard to believe that in the USA travel is a privilege and not a right. The USA government continues to increase control over it’s citizens at an alarming rate. When the American government controls your ability to travel it is easy to see that the American government is out of control.and needs to reigned in by it’s citizens. Please initiate a bill that makes Americans ability to travel freely a right and not just a privilege so other politicians will never be able to do this repressive act in the future. I don’t want my government to be able to limit travel and control Americans like other repressive governments. I want Americans to be to be free and I want to be proud of my country.

The politicians created all the problems in my country so please start fixing this country now by cutting spending, please stop spending my money without my permission, please stop borrowing without my permission. Most of all stop attempting to harass the American citizens and don’t forget the taxpayers that the Senate politicians are attempting to harass pay their salaries. Please initiate a bill to reduce all congressman’s salary by 50% until the astronomical government debt is zero.

This bill is already causing stress and strife in this country. Politicians are trying to polarize the American people and imprison Americans that want to dispute IRS claims. It is a lame idea and it will not work. The whole idea of a debtors prison is archaic and repressive. It appears that the politicians that approved this bill in the senate are obviously trying to distract Americans and divert their attention from the real problem (overspending & over borrowing). You politicians need to remember that our forefathers that were rich and poor fought together to create a free country. The rich and the poor fought to keep an oppressive government from controlling their lives. It appears that once again it is time for the rich and poor to work together to change this repressive regime that you politicians call a government. It is time to vote against all the politicians that attempt to attempt to create a repressive regime that tries to control the freedom of it’s citizens.

Once again, I oppose Bill 1813 and I oppose the attached Amendment giving the IRS additional powers to revoke, suspend or refuse to renew passports. I want you to remove the Amendment giving power to the IRS to revoke, suspend or refuse to renew passports from bill 1813 and any other bill that contains similar amendments. I oppose any bill that changes the freeways to toll roads.


38 posted on 04/17/2012 8:42:49 AM PDT by tstevens
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To: tstevens


39 posted on 04/17/2012 10:40:50 AM PDT by freedommom
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To: tstevens

Oh I forgot to tell you my representative is RON PAUL....

40 posted on 04/17/2012 10:47:48 AM PDT by freedommom
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