Cold Fusion in Italian High School

ECat World ^ | April 23, 2012 | admin

[Captain Steve]

LENR is definitely not a heat pump. COP is general term used in physics to measure the efficiency of an energy conversion process (as in a heat pump). It’s the ratio of input energy to output energy.

As LENR/Cold Fusion etc being a scam. It’s possible. I used to think it was, but I’ve read just about every single piece of data for the last 4 or so years. I think it’s the real deal. For it to be a scam, 100’s of people would have to be in on it now, going all the way back to Pons and Fleishman. With so many people in on it, and based on what I’ve read, I’m inclined to say something is there. Time will tell.

[Captain Steve]

it sounds like they were doing an exothermic chemical reaction. I guess merging the electron orbitals of two separate atoms into a covalent bond counts as fusion... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Can't be that. It's NOT a chemical reaction. The energy output is too high, and new ions aren't produced. New elements are produced. It's proton exchange. Unless a LOT of people are willing to lose their credibility from lying, it's fusion. They all know what happened to Pons and Fleishmann. It ruined them. The simplified reaction is Ni58 + p → Cu59

[HiTech RedNeck]

Or, some exothermic change of state of the powdered nickel or other things that are added to the powdered nickel. If nuclear level things are going on, a chemical analysis before and after the reactor has reacted should show the presence of elements afterwards that were not there before (and which didn’t come from the water charge either).

[HiTech RedNeck]

It would be very illuminating to get one of these into the hands of a really competent chemistry lab. Surely someone in mainstream chemistry could make this the subject of a PhD level study?

[exDemMom]

Can't be that. It's NOT a chemical reaction. The energy output is too high, and new ions aren't produced. New elements are produced. It's proton exchange. Unless a LOT of people are willing to lose their credibility from lying, it's fusion. They all know what happened to Pons and Fleishmann. It ruined them. The simplified reaction is Ni58 + p → Cu59

Reading through that mess, I saw no mention of the identities of any of the chemicals involved. The closest it came was to mention some kind of "mud" that apparently is prone to very exothermic reactions if exposed to air. As I see it, that highly reactive "mud" is sufficient to account for any rise in temperature occurring during that experiment. The energy output of chemical reactions can be incredibly high... explosives are a good example. I know that the "mud" cannot be nickel; to my knowledge, nickel does not react strongly upon contact with air.

The reaction ⁵⁸Ni + p → ⁵⁹Cu is a little unlikely; the Coulomb forces required to shove that proton into the nucleus are so high that, as I saw one physicist explain it, that much energy does not exist in the entire universe. If you want to transmute nickel to copper, I think the approach would be to shove a neutron into the nucleus, and wait for a beta decay. It would be quite a wait; the half-life of ⁵⁹Ni is 75,000 years, and the decay product (from a positive beta emission) is ⁵⁹Co, not copper.

[Wonder Warthog]

"That’s because all you do is refer people to a huge list of crap. It’s not worth anyone’s time, since 99% of cold fusion is hype and scams (look at the garbage Kevmo has copy and pasted to this thread from an Ecat blog). The USPTO bans this nonsense for a valid reason. All you have to do is post some quality information with a short write up of why you think it’s quality and worth someone’s time."

The standard hot physics refrain, yet always made without examining the evidence.

The researchers I post review articles for are (or were, since many of them have retired) eminently qualified scientists. Storms had a successful career at Los Alamos National Labs, retired from there, and became a "hobby scientist" with his own lab. Hagelstein came out of Lawrence Livermore National Labs, and is now tenured faculty at MIT. Bockris is a scientist of impeccable credentials, with many hundreds of peer reviewed research articles, book authorships, and national and international science awards.

Add to that that I have followed up many of their referenced articles, and, based on forty years of experience, see that those articles follow the accepted rules of "good science". Having written similar articles myself and done "peer review" on other such articles, I think I know good science when I see it. The "hype and scams" you refer to do not exist. The SINGLE proven instance of fraud that exists in the field of cold fusion was perpetrated by the "hot physicists" at MIT.

Simply put, you are a liar, propagandist, intellectually dishonest, and lacking in science ethics. Although given other evidence, perhaps your ethical practices reflect the "new" science ethics practiced with such gusto by the "global warmers" ("scamming" the peer review process, denial of tenure, attempting to get researchers who don't agree with them fired). Unsurprisingly, the practitioners of this "new science ethics" are largely physicists.

[Toddsterpatriot]

The simplified reaction is Ni58 + p → Cu59

I thought nickel was on the wrong side of the curve of binding energy. When did that change?

[Moonman62]

COP is general term used in physics to measure the efficiency of an energy conversion process (as in a heat pump). It’s the ratio of input energy to output energy.

I can only find references to COP being used as a measure for heat pump efficiency. It's use for LENR appears to be a misapplication, intended to spread manure.

For it to be a scam, 100’s of people would have to be in on it now, going all the way back to Pons and Fleishman.

If you want to play the numbers game, there are far more people in the scientific community who say it's a scam, including the USPTO.

[Moonman62]

All you have is appeals to (questionable) authority, personal attacks, and “Warthog says.” When it comes to putting up quality information, you have nothing.

[Captain Steve]

Yes it will. Many are now looking into it, including CERN, NASA, and MIT. We will all know pretty soon whether this is a revolutionary breakthrough. I think it is.

[Toddsterpatriot]

We will all know pretty soon whether this is a revolutionary breakthrough. I think it is.

Why? Because fusing nickel into copper is exothermic?

[Wonder Warthog]

"All you have is appeals to (questionable) authority, personal attacks, and “Warthog says.” When it comes to putting up quality information, you have nothing."

LOL. What "quality information" have YOU ever provided on ANY of these threads?? None. I know you're a liar because I have followed up on enough CF papers to know that your claim "99% of CF is hype and scams" is a flat-out lie. I don't claim (as one of your other hot physics compadres did) to have read everything published on cold fusion (another obvious lie), but I've read enough to constitute a pretty good random sample, and I have yet to find ONE paper that smacks of "hype".

Your entire history of posting on CF threads has been one constant attack. Dealing with you is like dealing with what sticks to the bottom of ones shoes after a walk in an "off-leash" dog park, annoying, smelly, and difficult to remove.

[Captain Steve]

Reading through that mess, I saw no mention of the identities of any of the chemicals involved. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ No offense intended, but you obviously haven't investigated this "new science" since you don't even know that very basic aspect. All the cold fusion/LENR/E-Cat systems are starting with powdered Nickel and Hydrogen and reporting some transmutation into Copper. Until you know more about it, you might want to consider refraining from saying what it is or is not. You obviously know a good bit about physics, so I think you'll find it worthwhile. ;)) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The reaction 58Ni + p → 59Cu is a little unlikely; the Coulomb forces required to shove that proton into the nucleus are so high that, as I saw one physicist explain it, that much energy does not exist in the entire universe. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Of course it violates the *known* properties of the Coulomb barrier. There are some other explanations as well, such as "widom-larsen." . Since no one knows yet, I can't tell you which it is, but as far as your physicist's "energy in the known universe" comment, someone should tell that to all the hot fusion scientists out there, because they could save a lot of money by NOT building billion dollar tokamaks. lol . . . . It happens in every star, so it clearly can happen. The question is, "at what minimum energy level." I'll say it's something like the discovery of super-conducting, it takes time to figure out what's happening, and then more time to put it to use. Pons/Fleishmann got the ball rolling. . Here's a few sites to look at if you want to learn more. This first link will take you to a video with Professor Brian Josephson , Nobel Prize winning and professor of physics at Cambridge University. That should get anybody's curiosity up. Imo, this is the real deal and will turn out to be as important as the use and development of fire, oil, or fission. . . . http://coldfusion3.com/blog/cold-fusion-and-universities-the-time-has-come/ . . . . This site has pretty good reporting on all things cold fusion. . . . http://www.e-catworld.com/ this guy has a grudge with Rossi, but some good stuff. . . . http://blog.newenergytimes.com/ . . . . And here's a link about a meeting at CERN. http://energycatalyzer3.com/news/cern-planning-lenr- colloquium-and-webcast/ All the best.

[Captain Steve]

We will all know pretty soon whether this is a revolutionary breakthrough. I think it is.
Why? Because fusing nickel into copper is exothermic?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes! That’s exactly why. It’s nearly free energy. It has the benefits of existing nuclear energy systems with none of the negatives. Cold fusion requires no radioactive fuel or byproducts, no storage problems, no containment, and uses cheap fuel.

I know it sounds crazy, but if CF/LENR/E-Cat works (and I’m thinking it will), it will pretty much solve the world’s energy problem. It’s THAT big. ;))

[Captain Steve]

Skeptics abound that don’t know much about Cold Fusion. They should watch this video or Professor Brian Josephson , Nobel Prize winning and professor of physics at Cambridge University.

http://coldfusion3.com/blog/cold-fusion-and-universities-the-time-has-come

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nearly free?

[Captain Steve]

The simplified reaction is Ni58 + p → Cu59 I thought nickel was on the wrong side of the curve of binding energy. When did that change? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yes. It does violate known properties of nuclear physics. That's partly why Pons and Fleishmann were "laughed off the stage" in 1989. Plus, the big money is in hot fusion. That doesn't make it a fraud, hoax, or wrong. I equate it to where super-conduction was last century. It went from poorly understood novelty to useful and established property of materials.

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's partly why Pons and Fleishmann were "laughed off the stage" in 1989.

They were fusing D, which is exothermic.

Try again?

[Captain Steve]

I’m very familiar with that graph. I mean “Free energy” as in very cheap to produce. ;))

This is a totally new “science.” I don’t claim to fully know what’s going on. No one does! What “we” do know is that different combinations of Hydrogen and Nickel are yielding large amounts of energy, transmutation into Copper, and disputed amounts of Beta decay.

[Moonman62]

If it weren't for the constant cold fusion spam you and Kevmo place on FR, I'd have little to say about it. However, the accepted status of cold fusion is that it is a scam and not a recognized science. That's why the USPTO doesn't accept cold fusion patent applications. You've done nothing to change that. Your claims of winning awards, professional accomplishments, and other forms of self puffery do nothing to change the image you've built with your delusional posts about cold fusion. Never in all my years on FR have I seen such a braggart who can't back it up with any quality in his posts. The only FReeper who makes you look normal by comparison is Kevmo.

While I find it worthwhile to shoot down your nonsense, it's not worthwhile to spend much time doing it, or to trust your bad judgment and follow your links to Ecat blogs, or other compilations of cold fusion fan boy material.