Skip to comments.F-22 Pilots Donít Want to Fly the F-22
Posted on 05/01/2012 11:25:46 AM PDT by Daffynition
Not exactly a grand gesture of confidence: some of the US Air Force's airmen, the world's most elite, want nothing to do with the Air Force's "elite" new fighter. Why? Because the only people it's threatening are its own pilots. ABC News reports, shockingly, that the admission came from within the Air Force itselfthe Pentagon isn't usually a font of mea culpas:
Gen. Mike Hostage, commander of Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Va., told reporters that a "very small" number of pilots have asked not to fly the fifth-generation fighter jets or to be reassigned.
(Excerpt) Read more at gizmodo.com ...
I thought F-22s we going to TDY to the UAE soon?
If so, then the modern USAF pilots have gotten pretty wimpy. They’d wet themselves at the thought of an F-104...
Yesterday, it was how the F-35 is a terrible platform. Now, its the F-22. What the heck has happened to manned military aviation?
I don’t blame them. The plane has a serious issue with its oxygen system. This won’t affect their readiness though. There are still plenty of pilots willing and able to fly the plane.
Mission commander: Alright, ladies! Who wants to pilot the flying deathtraps (aka F-22) for today’s mission?
Hand raises in the back: I do! I do! If I run out of O2 I’ll just roll down the window!
Those TAMU grads... whoop!
My first thought also. What a fine-looking airframe that is. From a decidedly unqualified point-of-view, I’d love to fly one. Damn, us Americans do make some pretty fine military aircraft. Functionality may be a problem that has to work itself out, but it is always going to look good doing it’s job.
Glad to see...them using Red Neck duck tape on that baby!!!
Is that bondo or strips of duct tape on top of that jet?
is someone pushing drones?
It’s one thing if you know a plane is a bear to fly.
The air supply/blackout issue is not yet fixed and I can understand this is a problem that can happen and you not be aware of it until you’re nodding off and blacking out. It is also intermittent so you never know if or when it will happen.
It’s so expensive, they will get in career-ending trouble for ejecting if there is a problem.
One can reasonably assume that after having 30+ more years experience building jets since the f-104, that it should not be like flying an f-104.
Look it up.
Every time...and I mean every time a major weapon system is being developed there are articles and complaints.
Same as these for f-22 and f-35.
Too costly, too complicated, cost overruns, wrong for the mission etc. Every time.
See M-1 abrams, f-15, f-16, Osprey...You name it, there are the same complaints. Usually coming from those who hate the military and cover their true intentions by saying they are just “looking out for the troops” or “looking out for the peoples money”. When the truth is they hate the military and spend every dime that’s sent to Washington.
Oh, just another example.
You ever seen one of these fly? Beautiful.
I was at Lake Martin one summer day, on a boat close to the dam. Along comes this B-1 flying low and slow. Looked a lot like a huge f-16. Anyway, that thing just pulled the nose up, hit the gas, and it was just.....gone.
Just need to get the right people working on a real solution.
That picture was taken over the Sierra Nevada of California, just south west of the town of Big Pine. Boundary Peak 13,147’ (highest mountainin Nevada) and 14,282’ White Mountain Peak in California can be seen in the distance across the Owens Valley.
Shhh! Don’t tell the Chinese that our “radar absorbing coating” is actually Duck tape!
Makes you happy it’s one of ours. :)
Yep. That was probably 15 years ago. It gave me chills writing about it. Awsome is not too strong a word. I just couldn’t believe that something that big could accelerate that fast.
Cool. Isn’t that near where Steve Fossett met his end?
Geez...I hope not!
I think drones are a HUGE improvement over manned fighters. 1) A HUGE part of the cost of a manned plane is the systems to keep the man safe. 2) Downed pilots can be a great source of POWs for an enemy. 3) Performance limitations are generally based on what the human pilot can endure, not the airframe.
Yes, Fossett crashed about 45 miles north of there in the Minerets near Mammoth Lakes Ski area on the eastern border of Yosemite Park.
This is the best I've found so far. It is from a F35 special interest forum http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-15547.html and is worth reading. Has a fair number of links also.
Before you get excited, look who the story is by. There are other reasons why young pilots might not want to fly the F-22, such as the next major combat mission will be in them.
Hypoxia kills. No pilot would knowingly or willingly fly an aircraft with an unpredictable fault in the cockpit pressurization/O2 system.
Jeez — we have been sending folks into space for a long time now. Seems reasonable to me that a “Murphy” proof cockpit pressurization/O2 system is within reach?
I was thinking about Chinese made parts for the SNAFUs.
G-forces? This is like owning a Ferrari, but you aren't allowed to put it into 6th gear.:(
Anything I say would be pure speculation — I have no systems knowledge of the F-22, but the fact that “software” is involved in what used to be a relatively simple O2 system tells me that some smart engineer tried to develop an “improved” O2 system and that it was fielded before being fully tested.
HST, I am back to my original statement — cockpit pressurization/OS systems have been around for a long time, and, most of them work pretty well. The more complex a system is, the more likely that there will be multiple failures, and the more likely it will be very expensive to maintain.
The KISS principle ought to be more widely followed, IMHO.
You hit the nerve: KISS generally works against corporate profits.
it isn’t the corporation that awards the contract
All Defense contractors have “Change Order” groups which work constantly to increase the value to the contractor of a particular contract by suggesting and implementing changes to the contract.
It is a time honored tradition in the defense industry to intentionally underbid a contract and then run the price up through change orders.
The KISS principle is mostly defunct in defense work these days — there is no money in it.
Change orders and mission creep is a two way street.
That is certainly true, but change orders often are targeted to encourage mission creep.
There are other problems with government procurement — it is not only the Military that gets screwed — civilian agencies also suffer FRom the many “loopholes” in the system. And, of course, the ultimate screwee is the US Taxpayer!
HSAT, my experience was that the government contracting officers are generally very junior, and can be “out-ranked” by contractors and their own seniors into approving changes that are not necessary, except in the political sense.
Also, government contractors seem to have a high turnover in management, as do the Program offices. All this turnover inevitably leads to “better ideas” and more cost to the taxpayer and profits for the contractor.
In short, it is an insane system and it doesn’t work to anyone’s advantage, although the players will tell you different. They all are playing a “wink-wink” game, until the corruption and/or program cost really get out of hand.
And then, once the jig is up, it becomes a blame game. But no one really suffers too much, except the poor suffering taxpayer.
As you can tell, I am a disgruntled taxpayer who spent too much time in government contracting trying to weave a fine line between fiscal responsibility and conflicting contractual and performance demands.
I agree with your assessment...obviously you are experienced in this area. I made similar comments on a previous JIEDDO program thread. It is us, the taxpayer who ends up paying the price.
So in your mind is the trend towards fixed price contracts vs cost plus not affecting change orders or mission creep? Wasn’t it designed to help mitigate change orders and mission creep? I am serious can you educate me on this? I’d love to hear your opinion.
I have been out of the business a long time, and the rules probably have changed.
HST, judging FRom the dustups in the most recent large military procurement programs, there is still a lot of wiggle room available for running the cost to the taxpayer and the profits to the contractors up.
Please understand me — men and women of good will work hard to do the right thing for competing interests — unfortunately, the poor suffering taxpayer does not have the best seat at the table.
Yes, fixed price contracts are one effort to gain control of cost runups, but the change order process still works as before.
What has to happen is that the aforementioned competing interests have to work together to ensure they all are treated fairly.
When I was in the business, I tried my best to be an honest broker between my company, the government and the taxpayer. That, my FRiend, is a tightrope walk!
Eventually, I got out because walking that tightrope became too difficult, and was not personally or professionally rewarding enough for me to stay there.
Parenthetically, you will note that the Congress and the public never hear about the contracts that worked as they were supposed to. Many do.
Super explanation Taxman. I really appreciate you laying this out for me. Good stuff. And you are dead on....we never hear about the programs that stay on budget and the people that do good work on both sides of the equation.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.