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Ancient migration: Coming to America
Nature ^ | 02 May 2012 | Adam Curry

Posted on 05/02/2012 10:12:27 PM PDT by Theoria

For decades, scientists thought that the Clovis hunters were the first to cross the Arctic to America. They were wrong — and now they need a better theory

The mastodon was old, its teeth worn to nubs. It was perfect prey for a band of hunters, wielding spears tipped with needle-sharp points made from bone. Sensing an easy target, they closed in for the kill.

Almost 14,000 years later, there is no way to tell how many hits it took to bring the beast to the ground near the coast of present-day Washington state. But at least one struck home, plunging through hide, fat and flesh to lodge in the mastodon's rib. The hunter who thrust the spear on that long-ago day didn't just bring down the mastodon; he also helped to kill off the reigning theory of how people got to the Americas.

For most of the past 50 years, archaeologists thought they knew how humans arrived in the New World. The story starts around the end of the last ice age, when sea levels were lower and big-game hunters living in eastern Siberia followed their prey across the Bering land bridge and into Alaska. As the ice caps in Canada receded and opened up a path southward, the colonists swept across the vast unpopulated continent. Archaeologists called these presumed pioneers the Clovis culture, after distinctive stone tools that were found at sites near Clovis, New Mexico, in the 1920s and 1930s.

As caches of Clovis tools were uncovered across North America over subsequent decades, nearly all archaeologists signed on to the idea that the Clovis people were the first Americans. Any evidence of humans in the New World before the Clovis time was dismissed, sometimes harshly.

(Excerpt) Read more at nature.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: americas; clovis; dna; godsgravesglyphs; migration; mtdna; neildiamond; preclovis; precolumbian
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1 posted on 05/02/2012 10:12:32 PM PDT by Theoria
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To: SunkenCiv

ping.

2 posted on 05/02/2012 10:13:22 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; Elsie; ejonesie22; Godzilla; T Minus Four; Zakeet; Scoutmaster; ...

Jaredite ping!


3 posted on 05/02/2012 10:23:48 PM PDT by reaganaut (I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and am out of the GOP if Romney gets in.)
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Looks like Nature is doing several features:

Special issue: Peopling the planet

Human migrations: Eastern odyssey

4 posted on 05/02/2012 10:26:07 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

The Soloutrean hypothesis explains the who the first arrivals in North America were. Anthropologists have long since discovered numerous Caucasoid skulls & skeletons which are much older than the first arrival of the Amerindians. The original inhabitants of Europe [ which only the Basques remain as the others were absorbed into the Indo Europeans who arrived later ] were also the original inhabitants of North America as well. This is a very interesting topic.


5 posted on 05/02/2012 10:42:42 PM PDT by Republican1795.
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To: Theoria; SunkenCiv; blam
Almost 14,000 years later, there is no way to tell how many hits it took to bring the beast to the ground near the coast of present-day Washington state.

Sigh. Academics.

It took only one stab with a spear to kill even a mastodon, and it involved a technique that was both reliable and relatively easy. When humans arrived, the animals had no concept for them as a threat. A hunter could simply walk right up, gut-stick it. Then just follow the meal until it drops. The animal would die of peritonitis in about three days. That is why so many carcasses are found near bogs. The animals would head to water to relieve the fever.

How do I know that? I learned it from Dr. Charles Kay, a researcher at Utah State and one hell of a big game hunter. He learned of the method from local tribesmen while hunting in Africa. His book, Wilderness & Political Ecology: Aboriginal Influences and the Original State of Nature, discusses this very issue at great length in a chapter entitled: False Gods, Ecological Myths, and Biological Reality. Humans can be amazingly proficient hunters.

6 posted on 05/02/2012 10:52:04 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RINOcrat Party is still in charge. There has never been a conservative American government.)
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To: reaganaut; All

Thanks for the laugh ... by recalling the story of the Jaredite migration ... one of the most ridiculous tales in the Book of Mormon ... which is saying a lot.

For the benefit of the uninitiated, the Jaredites were supposedly a group of Semitic people who traveled to the Americas from Babylon around the time of construction of that city's Tower of Babel. They made the journey in submarine barges that were designed by a rather stupid Mormon god.

Dr. Kent Ponder, an engineering professor at the U.S. Naval Academy, describes some of the critical scriptural passages and has a lot of fun analyzing them HERE.

7 posted on 05/02/2012 11:30:51 PM PDT by Zakeet (Obama loves to wok dogs)
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To: Theoria; Carry_Okie; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Theoria and Carry_Okie.
For most of the past 50 years, archaeologists thought they knew how humans arrived in the New World.
That one gave me a good laugh. The basic "Bering Land Bridge and That's It" crap has been around much longer than that. Clovis-First-and-Only has been around since the 1000 BC glass floor bit the dust due (primarily) to the radiocarbon dating revolution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


8 posted on 05/02/2012 11:55:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Zakeet
The DNA is a real problem for that whopper.
9 posted on 05/03/2012 12:00:42 AM PDT by Domangart
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To: Republican1795.

“Anthropologists have long since discovered numerous Caucasoid skulls & skeletons which are much older than the first arrival of the Amerindians.”

Do you have any links? I went looking using a dogpile metasearch, but didn’t find anything, then it was two in the morning...

Anyway, thanks for any info.


10 posted on 05/03/2012 1:03:04 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Theoria
Any evidence of humans in the New World before the Clovis time was dismissed, sometimes harshly

I cite the Clovis First academic intimidation as proof of how the 'consensus' in AGW has been built - and is wrong in both cases.

11 posted on 05/03/2012 3:07:10 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dsc

Kennewick Man is the most famous.


12 posted on 05/03/2012 3:07:49 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Zakeet; reaganaut

I searched around to see if he’d done anything on Noah’s Ark which was built in the same way as the Jaredite’s ships, but he didn’t.

Here’s a link to the atheist page on which his analysis is listed: http://packham.n4m.org/

He rips into Jesus and the Bible pretty hard as well.

http://packham.n4m.org/#XNITY

http://packham.n4m.org/bible.htm

http://packham.n4m.org/atheist5.htm

http://packham.n4m.org/evidence.htm

He also has a rather interesting discussion as to whether Mormon’s are Christian: http://packham.n4m.org/lds-xian.htm


13 posted on 05/03/2012 3:56:33 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Theoria
Radiocarbon dating of ancient faeces found in Oregon shows that humans were in North America as early as 14,300 years ago

So they crapped on the Clovis orthodoxy - who could immagine such a thing could happen tp a scientific consensus?

14 posted on 05/03/2012 4:01:00 AM PDT by frithguild (You can call me Snippy the Anti-Freeper)
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To: Carry_Okie

I agree with the good Doctor on that one but would like to add a little more to it. Having witnessed the fact that a wounded or sick animal will nearly always go to water does help explain the high amount of remains around old bog’s, I have another that I’ve also witnessed. As everybody knows the drought in Texas last year was a bad one, we lost 7 out of nine big ponds, as they dried up the banks became mud traps for the cows, deer and hog’s. We lost close to 80 cows from being stuck in the mud, well over 120 deer and at least 30 feral hog’s. We also had several coyotes and other predators get stuck in the mud trying to feed on the remains.
Now with the recent rains a wave of silt has washed into the ponds covering most of the bones and what hasn’t been covered eventually get pushed down into the mud by cows coming to water at the edge.


15 posted on 05/03/2012 4:10:06 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Carry_Okie; Theoria; SunkenCiv; blam

He’s a brilliant thinker and lecturer.

Predator-Mediated Competition: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/07/25/dr-charles-e-kay-predator-mediated-competition/

Here’s two videos on the liberal ecological disaster of wolf introduction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2g8BpYODU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAXq9YxjiY4&feature=relmfu


16 posted on 05/03/2012 4:13:35 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Dusty Road
Photobucket
17 posted on 05/03/2012 4:13:46 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Theoria

Too bad they came over in gas guzzling, climate warming, muscle cars w/o emission controls.

Had they not, we might still have the land bridge between Russia and Alaska.


18 posted on 05/03/2012 4:29:32 AM PDT by fruser1
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To: 1010RD; reaganaut
I searched around to see if he’d done anything on Noah’s Ark which was built in the same way as the Jaredite’s ships, but he didn’t.

Last time I checked, Noah's Ark was not a submarine barge. And it is my understanding that people have build replicas of the ark and these boats float. That can't be said for Joseph Smith's Jaredite vessels.

Here’s a link to the atheist page on which his analysis is listed ... he rips into Jesus and the Bible pretty hard as well.

Packham came out of Mormonism and became an atheist. It is my understanding that, unfortunately, the same is true for the majority of those who leave the cult.

Last time I checked (admittedly a few years ago), his site contained arguments that were debunked decades ago. Christian apologists such as Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell have written extensively on the topic and are worth checking into before you or anyone else make a final decision.

19 posted on 05/03/2012 5:37:38 AM PDT by Zakeet (Obama loves to wok dogs)
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To: Zakeet
***one of the most ridiculous tales in the Book of Mormon***

Perhaps Joseph Smith made the story more and more ridiculous just to see how gullible his followers really were.

20 posted on 05/03/2012 5:38:43 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Theoria
For most of the past 50 years, archaeologists thought they knew how humans arrived in the New World.

EVERYone knows they FLOATED over from Israel; in boats with holes in the bottom!

21 posted on 05/03/2012 6:22:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 1010RD
He also has a rather interesting discussion as to whether Mormon’s are Christian:


22 posted on 05/03/2012 6:24:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Perhaps Joseph Smith made the story more and more ridiculous just to see how gullible his followers really were.

And perhaps not. Joseph had, at best, a third grade education. Many of his early followers were noted for being even less academically sophisticated; Sidney Rigdon may have completed one or two years of elementary school and Brigham Young was illiterate.

I have found similar fanciful and silly material in most other cult literature. For example, check out the Koran if you want the rantings of a madman and read some material on Scientology if you want a laugh.

23 posted on 05/03/2012 6:26:53 AM PDT by Zakeet (Obama loves to wok dogs)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Perhaps Joseph Smith made the story more and more ridiculous just to see how gullible his followers really were.

Why have the archeologists HIDDEN all the helmets and shields they've fouind?

HHMMmmm...?


 
MORMON
Chapter 6

The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.

1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.

2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.

3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired. 

4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.

6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.

8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.

9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.

10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.

11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.

13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.

14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.

15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.

16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:

17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!

18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.

19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!

20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.

21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.

22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.


 
 
Mormon 8:2
And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.


24 posted on 05/03/2012 6:27:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Why have the archeologists HIDDEN all the helmets and shields they've found?

Likewise; the COVERUP of the evidence of Jaredite points lodged into curelom bones?

25 posted on 05/03/2012 6:28:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zakeet

Oh, thanks for the link on Jaredite ships!


26 posted on 05/03/2012 6:42:19 AM PDT by reaganaut (I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and am out of the GOP if Romney gets in.)
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To: Domangart; Zakeet

The DNA is a real problem for that whopper.

- - - - -
So is archeology.


27 posted on 05/03/2012 6:43:28 AM PDT by reaganaut (I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and am out of the GOP if Romney gets in.)
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To: 1010RD
Noah's ark was not built in the same fashion as the Jeridite ships...

Nor did it have magical light for days rocks...

28 posted on 05/03/2012 6:45:11 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD; Zakeet; Godzilla

So? I know Packham is an atheist and an ex-mormon, but this article was written by Kent Ponder, Ph.D. However, I know several atheist archeologists who admit there is a material culture for Israel (we know where Jericho and many other cities are) and even the historical Jesus regardless of how they may view Him.

However, there are NO non-LDS archeologists who give ANY support or even hint that there is any evidence for ANYTHING in the Book of Mormon. It is classified as ‘pseudo-archeology’ - like Aliens and Atlantis.

Atlantean archeology has more credibility in professional circles than Book of Mormon archeology.

If you want to have some fun, go to an AIA conference and ask about Book of Mormon archeology. You will be laughed out of the room. It is like taking EA Wallis Budge seriously.


29 posted on 05/03/2012 6:50:52 AM PDT by reaganaut (I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and am out of the GOP if Romney gets in.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; Zakeet

Perhaps Joseph Smith made the story more and more ridiculous just to see how gullible his followers really were.

- - - - -
I have heard that theory, however it must be remembered that Smith most likely originally thought of writing the BoM as the ‘next great American novel’, a way of getting rich. Only later revisions became more of a religious book when he found out that he could get followers and REALLY get rich.

He even tried to sell it at one point as a novel.


30 posted on 05/03/2012 6:54:09 AM PDT by reaganaut (I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and am out of the GOP if Romney gets in.)
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To: Theoria

They crapped in their own caves? Occupiers....even back then....


31 posted on 05/03/2012 6:54:41 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Zakeet

***check out the Koran if you want the rantings of a madman***

I have and after a verse or two, it and the BOM is like the song HOTEL CALIFORNIA.

“My head grew heavy and my eyes grew dim.
I had to stop for the night”.


32 posted on 05/03/2012 7:23:26 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: ejonesie22

***Noah’s ark was not built in the same fashion as the Jeridite ships...***

Well of course it wasn’t! The Jaredite “ships” were built in the Middle East and floated to the Americas.

Noah’s ark was built in Missouri and floated down the Mississippi and landed on the Mountains of Ararat in the Middle east. ;-D


33 posted on 05/03/2012 7:27:19 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: reaganaut

***‘pseudo-archeology’ -like Aliens and Atlantis.***

Thank the Ascended Masters I can still trust my books on Le-MU-ria by James Churchward! ;-D


34 posted on 05/03/2012 7:32:45 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

LOL! Obscure reference but funny.


35 posted on 05/03/2012 7:47:56 AM PDT by reaganaut (I am a Christian first, a Conservative second and am out of the GOP if Romney gets in.)
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To: Theoria
From this article it appears that established archaeolgists are trying to adapt to the "new paradigm" by circumscribing it so as to fence out anything any different from the old one. They are willing to let the dates of first entry slip back a bittle bit but only a little bit so as to retain 95% of their comfortable old shoe and their lifetimes of research and story making.
36 posted on 05/03/2012 8:11:22 AM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Colofornian; ejonesie22; Elsie; Godzilla; MHGinTN; ...
The Jaredite “ships” were built in the Middle East and floated to the Americas.

Noah’s ark was built in Missouri and floated down the Mississippi and landed on the Mountains of Ararat in the Middle east.

Some of you will have to help me on this, but as I understand it, while the Garden of Eden was in supposedly in Independence, Missouri, didn't Joseph and/or Sidney also teach that Noah built and launched his ark in what is now South Carolina?

37 posted on 05/03/2012 9:05:40 AM PDT by Zakeet (Obama loves to wok dogs)
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To: Zakeet; Ruy Dias de Bivar; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Colofornian; ejonesie22; Elsie; Godzilla; ...

It’s a joke and a pretty decent one.

Forgot The Armada that accompanied The Ark.

Tight like a dish, with only one door, a hole in the top and a hole in the bottom.

I think it’s in the book of Ether. Cracked me up when I read it among other things I read.


38 posted on 05/03/2012 9:18:35 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome

Yup, young Joe should have confined his fictional B of M to the Spaulding texts, rather than try to add things from his uneducated imagination.


39 posted on 05/03/2012 9:39:44 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Zakeet
While floating the Colorado, John Wesley Powell came upon a band of Lamanites about to dine with the Obamanites. Elizabeth Warren's great, great granny was also partying with them that day.


40 posted on 05/03/2012 10:50:52 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: dsc; Republican1795.; Theoria; dirtboy
"Do you have any links? I went looking using a dogpile metasearch, but didn’t find anything, then it was two in the morning... "

Vintage Skulls

The oldest human remains found in the Americas were recently "discovered" in the storeroom of Mexico's National Museum of Anthropology. Found in central Mexico in 1959, the five skulls were radiocarbon dated by a team of researchers from the United Kingdom and Mexico and found to be 13,000 years old. They pre-date the Clovis culture by a couple thousand years, adding to the growing evidence against the Clovis-first model for the first peopling of the Americas.

Of additional significance is the shape of the skulls, which are described as long and narrow, very unlike those of modern Native Americans.

Who Were The Si-Te-Cah

41 posted on 05/03/2012 10:59:18 AM PDT by blam
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To: reaganaut

So are two braincells to rub together!


42 posted on 05/03/2012 12:49:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
He even tried to sell it at one point as a novel.



43 posted on 05/03/2012 12:51:54 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: blam

**the five skulls were radiocarbon dated by a team of researchers from the United Kingdom and Mexico and found to be 13,000 years old.***

But, but L S B Leaky, the patron saint of African evolution, visited the Americas and declared some stone tools to be close to 200,000 years old! No one challenged him on it!

Oh dear ,who to believe, who to believe.


44 posted on 05/03/2012 12:51:54 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Utah Binger

And the Obamaites said to the Lamanites, “WHAT!!? Our dinner is being hugged by the COOK???”


45 posted on 05/03/2012 12:54:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Republican1795.
The Soloutrean hypothesis

....is that people DANCED TO AMERICA!!!


46 posted on 05/03/2012 12:55:37 PM PDT by Lazamataz (To the wall, street occupiers!!!!!)
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To: Utah Binger
Elizabeth Warren's great, great granny was also partying with them that day.

Uh-huh!

This proves you was sittin' on yer butt today, listenin' to RUSH, instead of ridin' the Orange Beast, rounding up all them weeds to get rid of!

47 posted on 05/03/2012 12:56:15 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Susan Binger is in charge of the weeds. I'm just back from Kanab Custom meats where I got two full tenderloins in preparation for Saturday night's big dinner for the WOW group of about thirty women artists from all over the west.


48 posted on 05/03/2012 2:02:15 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Elsie; Lazamataz
I should have pinged Lazamataz to get a bit of help with the WOW group.
49 posted on 05/03/2012 2:11:25 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
"But, but L S B Leaky, the patron saint of African evolution, visited the Americas and declared some stone tools to be close to 200,000 years old! No one challenged him on it! "

An article I posted eleven years ago:

Calico: A 200,000-year Old Site In The Americas?

50 posted on 05/03/2012 2:24:09 PM PDT by blam
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