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EXCLUSIVE: Apple Has Destroyed 490,000 American Jobs
Business Insider ^ | May 1, 2012, 12:02 PM | Eric Platt and Ben Duronio

Posted on 05/04/2012 4:57:06 PM PDT by Swordmaker

After taking heat for shipping jobs to China and contracting to employers with questionable labor conditions, Apple (rather publicly) took credit for creating more than half a million jobs in the U.S.

514,000 to be exact. 

That figure included nearly 50,000 employees in its retail network and its corporate headquarters, where products are designed.

But it also included FedEx and UPS employees who deliver its products and employees at Corning who make glass for iPads and iPhones.

So Apple basically counts anyone vaguely associated with the company or its products as a job that Apple created.

But what about the competitors Apple has bumped off in its relentless move to the top? 

What about the once-profitable markets, products, and companies it has destroyed? What happened to those jobs?

Business Insider analyzed data on Bloomberg, went through dozens of 10-Ks, and read through layoff announcements to see how Apple's peers have done.

What we found:

Apple has destroyed nearly as many jobs as it helped create, eliminating some 490,570 positions.

Click here to see the jobs that Apple has destroyed

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: china; corning; fedex; ups
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Swordmaker

Did anyone offset with all the people who have jobs writing and supporting iPhone apps, and making their businesses better using them? Just curious.

I know a number of people in the above categories.


51 posted on 05/04/2012 7:36:35 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: FreedomPoster

I was able to take on additional work thanks to my iPad. Thing paid for itself in a month.

And, as a former Kodak employee, I can tell you that company drove itself into the ground, Apple notwithstanding.


52 posted on 05/04/2012 7:48:10 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Swordmaker

What a bunch of nonsense. There’s no such thing as “shipping jobs overseas”. First of all... Manufacturing automation is responsible for more job displacement than has been cheap overseas labor. By a long shot. And then too... Anybody that can be replaced by cheap overseas labor should’ve been looking for a new job long ago. Most of those jobs are low-wage, low-skill jobs... If anything gets moved offshore, why not those?

Anybody that can’t compete on either price or quality with people on the other side of the world needs to find something else to do where they -can- compete. It’s there. Just keep looking.


53 posted on 05/04/2012 7:48:21 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: af_vet_rr

People keep missing a key issue: it’s not whether Apple builds a factory in the USA, it’s that the entire supply chain supporting it would be inadequate.

Building products in China means supply chain disruptions can be resolved in hours. In the USA, they can take days or weeks to resolve. Someone discovers a screw must be redesigned, remanufactured, and resupplied by the millions? you gonna shut down the whole supply chain for a week? or you gonna realize (Apple did) this sort of thing happens, and arrange suppliers so the disruption is over in a matter of hours?

Building millions of iPhones is hideously complex. Lots of companies are involved. ALL those companies must be orchestrated to deliver what is needed when it’s needed; any screwups cause a train wreck of manufacturing delays. China has the knack for doing this right.

And Apple isn’t the only one building such products there for a reason.


54 posted on 05/04/2012 7:57:27 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: apoliticalone

Well said. It is the truth. Globalism and it’s elitist mentality of being citizens of the world” is a promise of serfdom for Americans and Europeans. Perot was right.


55 posted on 05/04/2012 9:11:16 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: GeronL

Your analogy doesn’t work. Buggy whip makers were able to go to work for Henry Ford since his plants were in America.

The argument is not about a new industry rendering an older one obsolete. It’s about the transfer of industry out of the country for the purpose of labor arbitrage.

An accurate rendering would be Henry Ford closing River Rouge and opening his plant overseas.


56 posted on 05/04/2012 9:48:17 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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To: fabian
Competition is fine but jobs need to be kept here if possible, right?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in fact it is not possible. Steve Jobs explained to the president, why it isn't possible to build the iPhone, of course it went right over his head as I it would yours no doubt.

Do you have an American made Phone? Thought not.

57 posted on 05/05/2012 12:05:52 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Circuit City: What killed CC was getting rid of anyone helpful and replacing them with know-nothing minimum wage people.

That is exactly it.

Originally the salespeople worked on commission, knew their products and hustled.

Then the folks in the Tower of Richmond decided some of the sales staff were making too much money, so they fired the good ones and replaced them w/ hourly employees that simply pointed the customer toward the product and stood around.

Management killed Circuit City.
They followed the Sears model from years earlier.

58 posted on 05/05/2012 3:48:35 AM PDT by Vinnie (A)
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To: Swordmaker

I had to do a double take, thought this was Humor.


59 posted on 05/05/2012 3:49:40 AM PDT by Vinnie (A)
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To: 21twelve
And don’t even get me started on Eli Whitney!
And just think how many telephone operators would be employed, with all the phone traffic now - if only the computer and the touch-tone phone hadn’t eliminated the switchboard!

60 posted on 05/05/2012 4:10:55 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: 21twelve
And don’t even get me started on Eli Whitney!
And just think how many telephone operators would be employed, with all the phone traffic now - if only the computer and the touch-tone phone hadn’t eliminated the switchboard!

61 posted on 05/05/2012 4:10:57 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

That double post was “key bounce” of my finger on the trackpad. Mea culpa.


62 posted on 05/05/2012 4:16:01 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: Pelham

I wish I had a dime for ever lame buggy whip quip I have seen. This time around it is different. We have lots of surplus labor in America and lots of people who are employed only due to the Gov’t and do nothing useful or necessary. Or they work at a place that is mostly Gov’t funded. Or they do research at a university that is Federally funded. A million scientists (many of them foreign born) would be unemployed if that Federal spigot gets cut off. Plus it appears to me that thee fruits of their research are given away to the world, not kept at home for any technological advantage

Due to automation and computerization we can turn out goods with a lot fewer workers. We used to have light industry in many of our cities. Lots of that work is now done in China and Asia. Plus the entire job market is getting slanted away from men’s jobs to jobs that women can do and might do better such as working in an office for 8-10 hours each day. Or the law schools...are churning out a high percentage of female lawyers. My friends daughter is an environmental lawyer. What useful work do you think she does? The American economy is so (structurally) out of whack it’s a joke


63 posted on 05/05/2012 4:41:46 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: Swordmaker

Good grief, new and better products have always shifted the market. This is a lame argument.


64 posted on 05/05/2012 4:54:01 AM PDT by billva
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To: BfloGuy

“Corporations have no obligation to “the many” other than to offer them goods and services that they want at a price they’re willing to pay.”

I don’t necessarily disagree with you and to reassure you I’m no marxist. But what we forget is that 30 years ago US corporations just as US citizens had loyalty to the US, its flag and created national value for USA citizens. When corporations were doing well the USA was doing well. I supported corporatism in that environment. Today the multi-national corporate world has no national allegiance except to their CEO, BOD and questionably to shareholders. They get overpaid to destroy and mismanage good companies, with Lucent and HP as being two examples of many.

Multi-national corporations look at USA and national sovereignty as a PITA to them. They have no special allegiance to either the USA or USA citizens, but they want our politicians sending USA troops to die for them if it is their interest. They will support and use any country that rewards them. They want citizens supporting R&D that they can use to expand the economies of other countries. We would refer to a citizen who has the same turncoat qualities as a traitor...wouldn’t we?

What we need are import tariffs. It would bring back home the loyalty from corporations and self sufficiency to the USA. Eliminate the corp income tax, that they dodge, and establish tariffs on every component or product that comes back into the USA. They need to be encouraged to produce in the USA what they sell here as was done in the ear;y 20th century before the European bankers created the Federal Reserve and the income tax ( 16th Amendment) fraudulently passed.


65 posted on 05/05/2012 6:50:51 AM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: dfwgator

“There is no “Corporate America”, only “Corporate Global””

Amen to that and conservatism in that environment is not corporatism by any stretch.

Wall St promotes that propaganda. The multi-national corporatism that many politicians push is the opposite of conservatism. Corporatism is about a world without borders, and countries without sovereignty, and serfdom. The multi-nationals, Wall St. and the USA Chamber of Commerce, and the Democrat elites too who want more votes while screwing their constituents too, are behind the 30 year failure to defend our border with Mexico. How conservative is that?


66 posted on 05/05/2012 6:59:05 AM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: apoliticalone

Corporations HATE republics. This is why the cry “we need a national law” we can’t operate with 50 different laws. Cry me a f-ing river. BS.


67 posted on 05/05/2012 7:07:35 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: antiRepublicrat

I give the Apple and their computer operating system credit. It was, as intended a plug-in appliance, to do a function.

With Windows/DOS it was different. Users were required to have a sub career, a level of Geekdom and a degree in computer science to diagnose and keep it running. Remember the old computer shows where the computer geeks went to soup up their DOS systems? My first real computer was an Apple 2 for which I would write Apple Basic programs. It was Microsoft henceforth, because that’s what the business world used.

Apple and Windows created a different customer base.


68 posted on 05/05/2012 7:10:05 AM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: itsahoot

“Do you have an American made Phone? Thought not.”

If it is sold here, it either needs made here or the producer needs to pay a significant tax. Tariffs is what made the USA the greatest most self sufficient country on Earth until the European bankers got their hooks in our politicians. We once had only tariffs and no income tax until those bankers foisted their central banking concept and income tax upon us at Jekyll Island in 1913 because they wanted debt and a way to fund it.

Up until then foreign manufacturers and producers moved heaven and Earth to make their product in the American market.

The same banksters gradually sold the beholden politician thieves on the concept that debt and “Free Trade” is good. It isn’t now and never was good, at least to those of us who prefer living in an affluent self sufficient USA Repubic that is run by Americans and not the NWO.


69 posted on 05/05/2012 7:26:59 AM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: itsahoot

Yes, I do understand.


70 posted on 05/05/2012 7:31:47 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks Swordmaker.


71 posted on 05/05/2012 9:18:01 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GeronL
How about blaming high taxes and over regulation?

It is much easier to blame AGW anbd George Bush.

The author blames Apple for crediting itself with jobs created by all those who help manufacture, distribute and sell its products and then blames Apple for all jobs lost in the electronics field regardless of the real reason. Perhaps, like Rush, he is illustrating absurdity by being absurd but regardless the reason, he is absurd.

72 posted on 05/05/2012 9:23:16 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot
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To: apoliticalone
Up until then foreign manufacturers and producers moved heaven and Earth to make their product in the American market.

Things change. It is physically impossible for Apple or any other company to make an iPhone in the US. If you don't understand why that is true, then there is nothing to discuss.

The question is could that be changed and how.

73 posted on 05/05/2012 10:42:29 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

How dare they sell better/more popular products that hurt their competitors. lol


74 posted on 05/05/2012 11:17:59 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: apoliticalone
What we need are import tariffs.

I can't agree with you there. Tariffs raise prices on American consumers -- they are just another tax. And, contrary to popular opinion, they will do nothing to spur domestic production as long as the current tax, regulatory, and monetary (inflation) policies are in place.

And if we fix the taxes, regulations, and inflation, then we don't need to impose tariffs. The U.S. would be a profitable place to do business. Much better to create an environment where people want to invest than to use the corrupting influence of government to try and hammer them to invest.

Don't forget, too, that imposing import tariffs would have a seriously negative effect (perhaps, disastrous) on our exporting industries.

Tariffs are just another way to let the incompetents in government direct our economic livelihoods. There is no reason to believe they would be wiser at that than at any other of the interferences they impose on us.

75 posted on 05/05/2012 2:19:43 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: central_va
So in 1943 if the Reich Air Ministry (RLM) had offered Boeing a better price for its B-29’s they would have had every right to export them to Germany for the Luftwaffe to use?

No, of course not. We were in a declared war with Germany.

76 posted on 05/05/2012 2:31:12 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Nice summary.

I worked for Motorola when they were partnered with IBM for the PowerPC fiasco. T was assigned to work the back-end for Motorola’s production support. In short, “the first liar didn’t stand a chance”. Each company bid on quantity and delivery date for the PowerPC product, as a consortium, the price was pretty much fixed. IBM would promise August, Motorola would promise July - then neither company would have anything until the December. Saw this over, and over again. Apple would have a product ready for release for “Back to School”, or “Christmas”, or just a simple refresh - and they would miss the date because their “Partners” could not maintain professional integrity on any level, any level whatsoever.

So, Apple did what it had to do; they told the PowerPC consortium to take a hike, and joined the rest of the world in the x86 realm, where they had confidence that chipsets, die shrinks and product would be available in accordance with their agreements.

From the inside view, this was 100% predictable.


77 posted on 05/05/2012 3:20:37 PM PDT by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Nice summary.

I worked for Motorola when they were partnered with IBM for the PowerPC fiasco. T was assigned to work the back-end for Motorola’s production support. In short, “the first liar didn’t stand a chance”. Each company bid on quantity and delivery date for the PowerPC product, as a consortium, the price was pretty much fixed. IBM would promise August, Motorola would promise July - then neither company would have anything until the December. Saw this over, and over again. Apple would have a product ready for release for “Back to School”, or “Christmas”, or just a simple refresh - and they would miss the date because their “Partners” could not maintain professional integrity on any level, any level whatsoever.

So, Apple did what it had to do; they told the PowerPC consortium to take a hike, and joined the rest of the world in the x86 realm, where they had confidence that chipsets, die shrinks and product would be available in accordance with their agreements.

From the inside view, this was 100% predictable.


78 posted on 05/05/2012 3:20:51 PM PDT by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: BfloGuy

“Don’t forget, too, that imposing import tariffs would have a seriously negative effect (perhaps, disastrous) on our exporting industries.”

I didn’t know we still had exporting industries except for those that are the lowest on the economic ladder of value - raw materials. Third world emerging market countries export raw materials because that is the only export that they can offer, but not for first world countries that can add value.

We as a 1st world nation should demand that we be producing everything we use, and the resulting jobs and economic boost would well cover the the lower costs of Made in China. The latter is a rush to the bottom and profits only for the financiers and the few.


79 posted on 05/05/2012 4:16:11 PM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: apoliticalone
We as a 1st world nation should demand that we be producing everything we use

That's called autarchy and it's economic nonsense.

It's the equivalent of each family's producing everything for itself. It that sounds too ridiculous to you, then how about each state's producing everything for itself. If not, why not?

Why should the US produce everything it needs if people in another country can do it more efficiently? Spending our capital on unprofitable production just makes us poorer than we might have been.

You are engaging in economic nationalism. Oh, it's patriotic to be sure, but it doesn't increase our economic well-being.

80 posted on 05/05/2012 5:23:03 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: apoliticalone
I didn’t know we still had exporting industries except for those that are the lowest on the economic ladder of value - raw materials.

You're right!

U.S. Exports to World Total by 5-digit End-Use Code
2002 - 2011

(In thousands of dollars)

End-Use Code Value 2002 Value 2003 Value 2004 Value 2005 Value 2006 Value 2007 Value 2008 Value 2009 Value 2010 Value 2011
(00000) Wheat 3,771,920 4,002,455 5,191,779 4,416,027 4,256,669 8,450,461 11,445,584 5,515,311 6,912,943 11,294,505
(00010) Rice 832,936 1,077,760 1,223,738 1,337,714 1,337,293 1,471,002 2,311,533 2,274,187 2,446,435 2,208,698
(00100) Soybeans 5,806,179 8,047,048 6,894,715 6,626,555 7,288,375 10,443,447 16,031,502 16,905,202 18,973,308 18,041,649
(00110) Oilseeds, food oils 1,317,380 1,419,363 1,273,706 1,190,935 1,329,691 2,034,425 3,190,447 2,525,373 3,209,409 3,291,452
(00200) Corn 5,784,028 5,750,589 6,926,461 5,824,420 8,226,378 11,209,235 14,611,992 9,680,733 10,948,612 14,847,594
(00210) Sorghum, barley, oats 674,758 677,489 611,091 628,355 707,276 1,226,515 1,487,777 728,478 810,879 1,044,072
(00220) Animal feeds, n.e.c. 3,298,763 3,297,751 3,115,922 3,387,722 3,813,842 4,567,605 5,931,953 6,350,471 6,705,310 6,792,540
(00300) Meat, poultry, etc. 7,002,732 7,873,236 5,671,895 7,206,280 7,830,539 9,803,526 13,473,914 12,056,081 13,644,564 17,134,178
(00310) Dairy products and eggs 714,816 744,458 1,167,111 1,299,418 1,491,901 2,452,990 3,245,250 1,880,555 3,165,992 4,040,769
(00320) Fruits, frozen juices 4,038,150 4,295,114 4,533,462 4,996,914 5,565,404 6,204,632 7,147,122 6,888,310 7,771,906 8,827,028
(00330) Vegetables 2,900,539 2,965,801 3,189,490 3,509,842 3,852,542 4,320,698 5,091,865 4,942,980 5,430,963 5,874,258
(00340) Nuts 1,657,332 1,891,211 2,365,554 3,043,642 3,226,764 3,449,396 3,898,846 4,183,367 4,903,934 5,808,174
(00350) Bakery products 2,020,889 2,255,755 2,467,241 2,696,155 2,997,266 3,458,496 3,972,302 4,057,777 4,787,052 5,578,047
(00360) Other foods 4,482,548 4,906,768 5,340,365 5,872,533 6,585,524 7,282,239 8,312,435 8,116,537 9,131,887 10,744,645
(00370) Wine and related products 726,766 817,565 984,623 912,592 1,098,847 1,217,621 1,299,056 1,273,536 1,528,482 1,765,243
(01000) Fish and shellfish 3,197,235 3,363,283 3,823,237 4,207,720 4,350,747 4,374,738 4,373,778 4,088,512 4,574,771 5,687,972
(01010) Alcoholic beverages, excluding wine 627,135 681,029 777,286 821,174 958,548 1,176,751 1,280,937 1,169,517 1,398,656 1,725,548
(01020) Nonagricultural foods, etc. 761,472 959,336 1,011,988 977,358 1,044,775 1,120,494 1,242,933 1,270,889 1,359,452 1,441,035
(10000) Cotton, raw 2,066,878 3,388,982 4,279,556 3,933,122 4,516,513 4,590,808 4,814,406 3,368,670 5,897,847 8,505,730
(10100) Tobacco, unmanufactured 1,058,963 1,025,809 1,041,246 983,722 1,134,076 1,201,464 1,231,004 1,133,193 1,132,707 1,121,966
(10120) Hides and skins 1,751,470 1,793,603 1,757,782 1,787,883 2,055,688 2,182,541 2,066,608 1,465,990 2,286,211 2,661,571
(10130) Agric. industry-unmanufactured 1,173,376 1,255,510 1,468,907 1,401,808 1,578,557 2,126,111 3,270,157 2,781,143 3,967,590 4,459,060
(10140) Agric. farming-unmanufactured 1,544,415 1,731,381 1,610,260 1,833,043 1,848,596 2,082,180 2,470,796 2,358,184 2,517,884 2,919,771
(10150) Agriculture-manufactured, other 1,617,726 1,377,403 1,510,523 1,651,371 1,733,912 1,917,364 2,219,799 2,087,976 2,378,113 2,602,452
(11010) Metallurgical grade coal 1,024,080 1,014,289 1,760,238 2,385,524 2,563,510 2,937,949 5,810,995 4,455,228 8,265,205 13,007,298
(11020) Coal and fuels, other 898,318 788,371 1,206,042 1,329,221 1,337,047 1,676,376 2,793,453 2,066,459 2,200,646 3,841,994
(11100) Crude oil 87,556 128,282 308,194 551,652 567,086 751,092 1,031,499 972,228 1,239,789 1,674,315
(11110) Fuel oil 2,583,998 3,117,433 4,353,770 6,932,607 12,060,896 15,573,765 34,894,056 23,670,220 32,662,606 52,800,539
(11120) Petroleum products, other 6,978,589 8,633,021 11,583,088 14,104,621 17,316,831 19,325,281 27,995,137 21,731,464 33,224,003 54,237,010
(11130) Natural gas liquids 687,884 814,265 836,838 1,075,494 1,623,363 2,107,542 3,260,336 2,803,344 3,741,585 4,040,023
(11200) Gas-natural 995,442 1,399,765 2,125,663 3,109,833 2,241,159 3,163,501 4,892,249 3,286,064 4,921,886 6,307,850
(11300) Nuclear fuel materials 1,510,512 1,570,651 1,631,283 1,619,190 1,827,382 2,430,288 2,177,672 2,283,340 1,895,839 2,723,178
(11400) Electric energy 303,047 755,696 828,855 1,046,509 1,036,051 991,907 1,263,886 561,929 626,582 390,824
(12000) Steelmaking materials 1,863,503 2,607,012 4,014,104 5,991,623 6,801,742 9,882,359 14,193,933 8,548,322 11,069,032 14,785,564
(12100) Iron and steel mill products 3,219,083 4,176,506 5,208,393 6,917,987 7,280,901 8,857,734 11,471,121 7,063,152 10,117,336 12,495,843
(12110) Iron and steel products, other 2,768,597 2,905,047 3,636,622 4,351,229 5,161,823 5,779,523 7,264,146 5,412,567 6,330,869 7,113,926
(12200) Aluminum and alumina 2,947,824 3,032,119 3,992,337 5,191,121 7,293,397 8,029,016 8,569,567 5,691,779 7,539,660 9,528,016
(12210) Copper 1,112,520 1,510,815 2,002,919 2,356,484 4,701,430 5,378,672 6,125,726 4,085,511 6,226,008 8,480,823
(12260) Nonmonetary gold 3,356,634 4,790,354 4,449,217 5,548,806 8,783,018 13,307,357 18,689,079 13,932,512 17,561,155 33,228,280
(12270) Precious metals, other 2,560,780 2,144,607 2,758,099 3,175,711 7,041,535 8,438,360 10,564,281 8,007,692 12,644,164 12,009,647
(12290) Nonferrous metals, other 2,148,428 2,464,242 3,053,412 4,523,315 6,601,440 8,060,264 7,765,131 5,825,561 7,748,269 8,853,423
(12300) Finished metal shapes 8,728,448 8,948,222 9,964,894 11,405,809 13,941,026 15,288,523 16,918,626 13,091,337 15,840,579 17,894,329
(12420) Pulpwood and woodpulp 4,051,462 4,259,100 4,696,567 5,272,294 5,907,916 7,112,556 7,940,832 6,848,862 8,902,574 10,155,543
(12430) Newsprint 8,160,275 8,554,129 9,274,785 9,862,581 10,567,425 11,543,605 12,462,794 10,759,362 12,462,517 13,478,342
(12500) Plastic materials 14,104,243 15,407,108 21,656,550 24,793,298 27,923,880 29,118,286 31,639,545 25,543,801 32,778,547 36,025,994
(12510) Chemicals-fertilizers 3,924,528 4,105,064 4,744,018 5,197,329 5,299,442 6,292,134 10,760,304 7,034,570 7,970,776 9,890,779
(12530) Chemicals-inorganic 3,929,179 3,930,315 4,423,922 5,880,332 6,660,376 7,014,514 8,356,994 6,018,503 7,514,960 8,831,939
(12540) Chemicals-organic 14,631,857 17,633,336 22,187,353 23,377,062 27,124,997 31,622,940 33,351,324 24,602,598 34,156,362 39,419,030
(12550) Chemicals-other 13,238,295 14,443,025 15,609,108 16,721,139 18,518,081 20,421,169 23,176,664 20,785,260 25,628,480 28,783,602
(12600) Cotton fiber cloth 2,728,651 2,788,335 3,264,766 3,232,897 3,131,450 2,857,846 2,777,619 2,115,630 2,453,914 3,224,791
(12620) Manmade cloth 4,894,813 5,048,515 5,550,833 5,686,350 5,772,104 5,872,791 6,046,710 4,743,467 6,014,877 6,783,916
(12630) Hair, waste materials 429,684 447,027 493,439 483,543 552,491 606,774 617,950 488,015 627,361 658,620
(12640) Finished textile supplies 2,248,350 2,196,564 2,321,442 2,377,417 2,539,263 2,467,721 2,440,976 2,072,266 2,537,975 2,668,797
(12650) Leather and furs 840,316 866,753 1,193,579 1,095,540 1,051,872 1,150,922 935,118 568,783 875,206 1,044,952
(12700) Synthetic rubber-primary 1,675,484 1,852,549 2,218,021 2,694,877 3,188,402 3,609,603 3,763,748 2,792,362 3,854,344 4,903,269
(12720) Nonmetallic minerals 416,415 427,349 488,635 488,854 605,025 581,999 825,002 481,209 716,277 902,429
(12750) Industrial rubber products 2,190,650 2,199,254 2,452,514 2,585,845 2,929,954 3,249,079 3,372,866 2,864,700 3,649,490 4,296,474
(12760) Mineral supplies-manufactured 3,093,482 3,307,186 3,670,944 3,751,497 4,513,271 4,932,509 4,994,114 4,027,656 5,272,576 5,543,767
(12765) Tapes, audio and visual 1,203,833 1,346,509 1,620,300 2,014,146 1,796,091 584,404 505,783 696,209 593,949 545,534
(12770) Other industrial supplies 14,477,266 15,049,554 13,757,853 14,793,038 16,415,191 19,854,838 20,443,435 17,932,452 21,481,119 22,985,043
(13100) Logs and lumber 3,568,646 3,675,962 4,213,673 4,332,968 4,604,286 4,730,702 4,417,280 3,523,549 4,908,234 5,618,235
(13110) Wood supplies, manufactured 875,807 911,252 1,028,197 1,074,196 1,221,734 1,279,670 1,399,805 1,014,437 1,207,317 1,348,569
(13200) Glass-plate, sheet, etc. 977,598 979,685 1,088,950 1,141,029 1,279,408 1,475,229 1,628,697 1,344,362 1,533,803 1,607,013
(13210) Shingles, molding, wallboard 1,891,071 1,961,770 2,284,145 2,637,272 3,022,113 3,413,712 3,875,079 3,341,640 4,076,095 4,523,638
(13220) Nontextile floor tiles 297,270 300,613 337,797 377,329 415,826 462,505 498,880 425,461 495,418 552,234
(20000) Generators, accessories 6,171,391 6,286,538 7,028,809 7,613,908 9,467,357 10,415,345 12,125,075 10,296,288 12,360,774 12,972,838
(20005) Electric apparatus 21,373,353 21,158,082 24,231,365 25,674,197 29,809,799 30,884,798 30,835,619 26,062,564 32,108,777 35,118,902
(21000) Drilling & oilfield equipment 6,562,205 6,066,973 6,869,681 8,153,668 10,779,975 12,611,364 15,064,587 11,467,010 10,508,896 10,798,349
(21010) Specialized mining 384,423 419,075 544,473 634,938 838,723 1,059,037 1,436,270 1,123,268 1,393,079 1,884,718
(21030) Excavating machinery 4,986,166 5,284,702 6,657,603 8,812,827 9,870,857 12,790,982 15,079,628 9,810,299 12,666,515 16,656,046
(21040) Nonfarm tractors and parts 960,239 1,063,017 1,439,904 1,382,445 1,859,599 2,102,594 3,410,665 2,048,417 2,405,977 3,498,301
(21100) Industrial engines 11,601,418 11,690,670 13,511,204 14,934,258 15,976,883 19,147,306 21,848,649 21,916,203 24,354,656 28,102,493
(21110) Food, tobacco machinery 1,732,148 1,688,991 1,860,182 2,064,865 2,193,266 2,610,392 3,055,859 2,722,159 3,019,007 3,328,196
(21120) Metalworking machine tools 5,174,725 5,252,726 7,075,695 7,663,288 9,497,605 6,715,081 7,442,813 5,298,367 6,521,455 7,753,022
(21130) Textile, sewing machines 1,059,214 1,020,197 1,134,193 1,247,851 1,273,208 1,384,618 1,323,294 965,597 1,172,122 1,158,663
(21140) Wood, glass, plastic 2,597,190 2,503,246 3,367,352 3,645,557 3,628,075 3,510,729 4,139,420 3,414,628 3,639,661 4,334,608
(21150) Pulp and paper machinery 2,278,780 2,372,552 2,566,827 2,718,324 2,852,539 2,701,033 2,955,993 2,311,204 2,458,539 2,669,509
(21160) Measuring, testing, control instruments 13,218,013 13,936,101 16,927,323 16,720,633 19,151,971 20,629,956 20,984,430 16,939,642 21,192,342 23,742,788
(21170) Materials handling equipment 4,488,470 4,655,814 5,984,009 8,162,312 9,919,919 11,985,740 14,728,350 9,722,423 11,728,092 15,725,410
(21180) Industrial machines, other 21,727,003 21,718,029 26,971,265 28,295,944 32,697,001 38,364,090 38,138,302 30,876,273 42,706,077 45,246,226
(21190) Photo, service industry machinery 5,422,145 5,714,167 6,553,936 7,492,107 8,192,305 9,191,558 9,846,793 7,888,360 9,325,816 10,216,596
(21200) Agricultural machinery, equipment 3,526,203 3,793,910 4,422,448 5,144,124 5,312,437 6,268,756 8,297,054 6,253,057 6,803,152 8,774,369
(21300) Computers 9,190,115 8,664,470 9,198,120 10,206,187 11,470,423 13,535,351 14,560,866 12,314,744 14,704,331 16,828,976
(21301) Computer accessories 29,362,295 31,260,248 33,607,204 35,330,167 36,109,996 29,403,993 29,336,861 25,402,179 29,111,043 31,567,258
(21320) Semiconductors 42,234,579 46,137,440 48,050,388 47,221,556 52,429,936 50,444,550 50,603,102 37,487,996 47,185,404 43,773,152
(21400) Telecommunications equipment 22,207,691 20,743,162 24,543,091 25,666,771 28,930,842 31,424,350 32,865,982 28,683,134 31,911,130 35,849,295
(21500) Business machines and equipment 2,023,646 1,927,170 2,110,291 2,335,954 2,702,010 5,392,134 4,246,641 2,973,575 3,136,639 3,179,413
(21600) Laboratory testing instruments 4,824,079 5,118,842 6,093,197 6,665,275 7,280,227 8,128,335 9,011,278 8,693,696 9,952,464 10,659,570
(21610) Medicinal equipment 14,481,033 15,742,536 17,852,664 20,364,358 22,702,165 23,825,242 27,023,260 26,879,276 29,806,850 32,041,187
(22000) Civilian aircraft 26,676,656 23,305,357 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
(22010) Parts-civilian aircraft 12,222,736 12,134,464 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
(22020) Engines-civilian aircraft 11,584,658 11,338,959 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
(22090) Civilian aircraft, engines, equipment, and parts 0 0 46,074,680 55,888,616 64,502,981 73,019,297 73,998,632 74,755,438 71,972,972 80,172,454
(22100) Railway transportation equipment 1,245,275 1,641,902 1,856,082 2,345,207 2,939,640 3,013,878 3,430,978 2,500,782 2,793,787 3,501,116
(22200) Vessels, excluding scrap 204,471 67,122 40,953 64,957 51,701 108,920 88,165 22,016 34,201 96,727
(22210) Commercial vessels, other 179,292 138,968 207,814 230,358 222,441 293,268 372,734 395,242 418,351 424,226
(22220) Marine engines, parts 758,992 793,606 740,348 976,964 1,127,719 1,267,760 1,450,095 1,188,961 1,174,225 1,296,827
(22300) Spacecraft, excluding military 36,932 37,138 53,632 37,955 26,879 30,336 26,555 48,362 31,066 31,559
(30000) Passenger cars, new and used 20,552,414 22,102,841 24,609,325 30,492,691 33,977,613 43,743,138 49,568,671 27,501,371 38,352,940 47,354,593
(30100) Trucks, buses and special purpose vehicles 8,363,362 10,244,379 11,928,396 13,477,345 15,104,176 17,033,187 15,753,472 12,472,506 16,620,736 19,412,257
(30200) Engines and engine parts (carburetors, pistons, ri 10,112,579 10,112,654 10,754,788 11,324,368 12,197,079 13,222,680 12,860,797 8,775,176 12,467,979 14,495,782
(30210) Bodies and chassis for passenger cars 138,831 185,673 148,197 58,449 58,906 187,253 193,100 65,257 85,835 112,037
(30220) Automotive tires and tubes 1,909,086 1,819,338 2,124,051 2,403,281 2,487,460 2,733,607 3,076,308 2,768,978 3,161,658 3,779,355
(30230) Other parts and accessories of vehicles 37,866,139 36,220,655 39,727,480 40,916,620 43,336,184 44,330,344 39,850,620 30,131,644 41,299,692 47,365,340
(40000) Apparel, household goods - textile 6,305,462 5,935,708 5,389,846 5,311,955 5,199,401 4,744,950 4,913,001 4,767,587 5,373,243 6,003,965
(40030) Apparel,household goods-nontextile 1,307,645 1,349,863 1,433,964 1,672,191 1,839,910 1,953,582 2,232,846 2,117,895 2,342,620 2,688,350
(40050) Sports apparel and gear 445,492 421,225 436,046 485,324 588,789 565,214 607,659 520,298 579,838 691,829
(40100) Pharmaceutical preparations 17,347,840 20,529,484 25,431,506 27,618,757 30,919,365 35,164,635 40,422,158 46,122,661 46,606,818 45,468,816
(40110) Books, printed matter 3,969,325 4,175,252 4,397,917 4,820,801 5,205,957 5,586,630 5,808,117 5,183,642 5,418,445 5,366,270
(40120) Toiletries and cosmetics 4,139,641 4,580,874 5,260,323 5,975,099 6,760,241 7,615,193 8,715,182 8,436,427 9,407,275 9,856,247
(40130) Tobacco, manufactured 1,962,035 1,881,706 1,599,295 1,340,630 1,362,074 1,157,107 858,340 533,247 495,653 535,888
(40140) Writing and art supplies 4,609,284 4,695,044 5,062,591 5,623,401 5,835,270 6,182,716 6,743,648 5,942,634 6,892,016 7,133,168
(41000) Furniture, household goods, etc. 2,122,958 2,415,749 2,723,936 2,885,663 3,209,952 3,591,487 4,045,732 3,221,439 3,756,366 4,117,931
(41010) Glassware, chinaware 450,822 348,977 393,530 405,241 433,268 493,571 521,438 395,705 464,291 495,167
(41020) Cookware, cutlery, tools 695,857 687,921 733,034 771,945 871,885 1,003,808 1,029,246 840,518 910,940 1,001,232
(41030) Household appliances 4,536,883 4,830,195 5,224,404 6,050,859 6,636,064 6,940,036 7,376,021 5,919,684 6,607,829 6,873,556
(41040) Rugs 693,290 693,005 789,475 906,070 1,008,340 1,023,943 1,090,418 849,025 995,782 1,078,124
(41050) Other household goods 8,444,489 9,389,945 10,754,075 12,428,236 14,078,144 15,458,272 17,020,468 16,629,750 19,263,042 20,468,527
(41110) Pleasure boats and motors 1,086,943 1,368,396 1,911,421 2,480,770 2,784,741 3,149,061 3,423,537 2,050,067 2,478,428 2,528,049
(41120) Toys/games/sporting goods 5,459,446 5,692,490 6,316,574 7,564,206 9,044,514 11,288,684 11,615,803 9,839,225 10,489,172 10,481,798
(41140) Musical instruments 1,032,717 862,781 1,056,377 1,058,999 1,066,449 2,110,834 2,182,878 2,108,088 2,342,318 2,434,661
(41200) TV's, VCR's, etc. 3,955,119 3,382,301 3,602,070 3,639,449 3,867,843 3,858,229 3,747,936 3,904,324 5,152,573 5,696,021
(41210) Stereo equipment, etc. 1,541,870 1,560,706 1,712,822 2,213,713 2,460,028 2,469,801 2,272,000 1,786,163 1,847,773 1,935,036
(41220) Records, tapes, and disks 3,221,800 3,191,920 3,386,401 3,640,005 3,543,387 4,962,046 5,135,017 4,035,140 4,209,700 4,207,311
(41300) Numismatic coins 56,008 63,051 54,118 67,805 155,242 244,792 321,107 282,087 518,775 1,027,702
(41310) Jewelry, etc 2,968,325 3,049,472 3,867,696 4,727,493 6,150,140 6,974,894 7,189,366 6,807,589 7,614,300 9,070,283
(41320) Artwork, antiques, stamps, etc. 2,901,776 3,036,051 3,877,752 4,778,136 5,952,850 7,497,948 8,448,043 6,861,140 6,839,493 7,451,708
(42000) Nursery stock, etc. 269,747 289,308 313,536 341,782 388,513 422,700 444,337 405,493 416,052 421,920
(42100) Gem diamonds 4,834,043 5,476,603 7,346,005 8,906,873 9,986,079 12,328,131 15,250,311 10,483,995 14,871,427 19,226,612
(50000) Military aircraft, complete 1,672,201 2,159,009 2,360,999 2,417,217 4,464,053 4,174,989 4,580,069 2,381,208 2,076,177 1,739,028
(50010) Aircraft launching gear, parachutes, etc. 89,950 116,027 214,592 305,808 344,801 329,905 393,594 452,002 340,785 316,786
(50020) Engines and turbines for military aircraft 1,836,533 1,320,834 1,260,987 1,566,406 1,643,263 1,780,258 1,772,342 1,912,519 1,989,735 1,997,748
(50030) Military trucks, armored vehicles, etc. 722,039 635,004 745,331 920,345 845,650 1,031,680 926,068 1,012,332 1,067,407 962,843
(50040) Military ships and boats 2,060 1,000 0 0 5,170 23,310 8,624 0 0 0
(50050) Tanks, artillery, missiles, rockets, guns and ammu 1,929,437 1,615,936 2,067,159 2,037,040 2,714,832 2,935,530 2,881,743 3,121,615 3,603,112 3,396,807
(50060) Military apparel and footwear 812,385 844,928 506,395 668,594 693,126 654,518 540,713 434,997 577,474 663,008
(50070) Parts for military-type goods 4,639,359 4,816,374 4,728,834 4,919,362 5,917,827 5,963,682 5,490,903 5,481,298 5,659,354 5,654,596
(60000) Minimum value shipments 14,635,601 15,043,576 16,781,625 18,800,866 21,595,289 24,277,382 27,830,906 22,610,420 33,079,095 30,028,425
(60010) Miscellaneous domestic exports and special transac 6,514,038 5,858,199 5,737,754 5,328,568 5,365,184 6,128,446 6,237,098 5,799,825 5,937,386 5,639,552
(60040) Undocumented exports to Canada 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4,347,649
TOTAL 693,103,192 724,770,983 814,874,654 901,081,813 1,025,967,497 1,148,198,722 1,287,441,997 1,056,042,963 1,278,263,225 1,480,552,125



81 posted on 05/05/2012 5:40:38 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Swordmaker

Oh boo hoo.

This idiotic mindset is right out of Atlas Shrugged.

Compete or get out.

Socialist idiots.


82 posted on 05/05/2012 5:56:25 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" ~ Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: BfloGuy
Why should the US produce everything it needs if people in another country can do it more efficiently

I guess the Chinese can produce our tanks, aircraft and ships for us in the next major war with THEM. .

83 posted on 05/06/2012 3:53:05 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Ok look at imports, there is still a huge trade imbalance.


84 posted on 05/06/2012 4:05:20 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: GeronL; All

“Then lower the taxes and reduce the regulations that have made the US a stupid place to invest. This article is just missing the point, much less being written by an insane person.”

Intel’s CEO tried to tell you what was happening back in 2000.

Emerson Electric’s CEO David Farr told you in GLARING DETAIL in early 2008 why he was closing dozens of U.S. factories and moving the jobs out of the U.S.. The left media vilified him for it, and the mainstream media said he was obviously a racist. The jobs still left.

Until people are willing to ADMIT what the true systemic US problems are, what’s left of our manufacturing will continue to be OUTFORCED by Washington.

Can you hear Ross Perot’s giant sucking sound, yet?


85 posted on 05/06/2012 4:15:18 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Election 2012: THE RAPTURE OF THE DEMOCRATS)
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To: central_va

Yes, we have a huge trade imbalance.
What does that have to do with my point?


86 posted on 05/06/2012 9:45:29 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Swordmaker

This is only a test post for the dictation option on my new iPhone for 4s.

Cool.... only one small error, this seems to be working rather well.


87 posted on 05/07/2012 1:06:14 PM PDT by Gator113 (***YOU GAVE it to Obama. I would have voted for NEWT.~Just livin' life, my way~)
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To: BfloGuy
What you say is totally ridiculous. China makes most of the things we use and now the Chinese state is buying up U.S. banks how is that free trade working out for you.

If we produced only 25% of what China produces for us we'd have how many more industries , technology , factories and jobs in the U.S? How does that hurt the U.S.? What are we producing now because of you free traders:DEBT, non profits that are useless and rely on government grants, government jobs that are useless and grow the debt, debt, more lawyers, most new “jobs” are people on welfare,foodstamps, social security , government jobs,disability, non profit jobs : All of which produce NOTHING but add more debt. You think that is sustainable then you are totally misinformed.

Take the consumer electronics industry which is just one industry out of many that China has stolen from the U.S. In just one product of that the ipad how many technology jobs would come back to America ? Not just the factory workers but programmers, accountants, managers, process engineers, electricians et. And then all the parts for the ipad like the chips and processors ,and the supply chains and supply chains for each part so on etc. : All have gone to china for thousands of electronic products but they could be here in the U.S. . Instead we produce environmental studies with government grants.

88 posted on 05/10/2012 5:29:31 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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To: big'ol_freeper
The socialists, the Chinese State just bought a major U.S. bank.

how is that free trade working out for you.

We don't have to let in 2 billion illegals that want to come to the U.S. so likewise we don't have to let in China products. Close the border to illegals and China products.

what you are advocating is the taking away of the U.S. border ( no laws to protect the border against foreign threats which is not freedom but anarchy). Freedom inside the U.S. border has to be protected by armies and by not letting in Foriegn threats like illegals or China products.

89 posted on 05/10/2012 5:36:07 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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To: big'ol_freeper
My definition of socialism is government owning most of the country's production.

Socialism is not protecting the U.S. border against foreign threats. We need some laws and some government like the Army ( which is government), police, border protection ( which should stop illegals and foreign products imo.
Are you against the army , against border patrol?

90 posted on 05/10/2012 5:41:48 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
The value of all that is in inflated dollars. China makes most ( 90%?) of the products everyday Americans use. And you say it's a bad thing if we actually produced just 25% of what China produces for us which we pay with borrowed money(thanks Obama for putting 5 trillion in debt on us and sending more of our factories and jobs to China.)

The fact China has literally stolen most industries from the U.S. , just one example is the electronics industry. So you say that is a bad thing if we actually that industry back. Got news for you but if we can't produce our technology then we are done.

All you free traders agree with Obama and democrats as democrats have done nothing to stop the bleeding of U.S. factories and jobs to China.

91 posted on 05/10/2012 5:49:33 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
The value of all that is in inflated dollars. China makes most ( 90%?) of the products everyday Americans use. Anything you list on there that is manufactured will go to China soon ,completing the U.S. decline and collapse.

What if we made 25% of what China produces for us : how many jobs , technology and factories would that create for the U.S.?

What we are living off of is trillions in debt. But that will lead to a more massive collapse. If you owed a couple of hundred thousand and then instead of working and paying that down, instead you borrowed $200,000 more and lived it up, yeah you'd be living the high life for a few years but then there will be the eventual collapse: this is what Obama is doing and all you free traders support Obama.

92 posted on 05/10/2012 5:57:09 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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To: rurgan
What are we producing now because of you free traders:DEBT, non profits that are useless and rely on government grants, government jobs that are useless and grow the debt, debt, more lawyers, most new “jobs” are people on welfare,foodstamps, social security , government jobs,disability, non profit jobs : All of which produce NOTHING but add more debt. You think that is sustainable then you are totally misinformed.

We [meaning our beloved government] create the debt. The Chinese [or free trade for that matter] have nothing to do with that. If you don't like the debt -- and who does? -- then work to elect a government that spends no more than it takes in through taxes.

Free trade does not create the national debt. It's ridiculous to say that it does. And if you want more manufacturing here (and actually, I do, too) then the way to encourage it is to reduce the costs of doing business in America: taxes, regulations, etc..

But to ask the same government that has created the massive debt (as well as all those social services you mentioned) to now regulate our personal economic lives by charging us more to buy products from abroad just seems crazy to me.

All you protectionists should justify your position by explaining just why an American citizen's freedom to buy and sell property should be curtailed. It's always interesting to me when a supposed conservative calls for more government power and less individual freedom.

Can't wait to hear why you do.

93 posted on 05/10/2012 2:23:02 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: rurgan
The value of all that is in inflated dollars.

Yes. So is the value of our imports. Do you have a point?

China makes most ( 90%?) of the products everyday Americans use.

That's funny. And wrong.

And you say it's a bad thing if we actually produced just 25% of what China produces for us

I do? Where?

So you say that is a bad thing if we actually that industry back.

I do? Where?

All you free traders agree with Obama and democrats

No, I disagree with Obama and democrats.

94 posted on 05/10/2012 2:23:37 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: BfloGuy

I’ll reply to your post point by point later, but have to go now.

But I have time for this. You free traders agree with Obama, democrats and Marx on this free trade.It’s ridiculous to give China all our technology and allow them to make most (soon every little thing) we use. Anyone that thinks that we the U.S.A. can survive when another country(S) produces practically every damn thing we use is not living in reality but in the media created alternate universe. We are living on debt and that is not sustainable.


95 posted on 05/11/2012 12:47:01 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

I’ll reply to your post point by point later, but have to go now.

But I have time for this. You free traders agree with Obama, democrats and Marx on this free trade.It’s ridiculous to give China all our technology and allow them to make most (soon every little thing) we use. Anyone that thinks that we the U.S.A. can survive when another country(S) produces practically every damn thing we use is not living in reality but in the media created alternate universe. We are living on debt and that is not sustainable.

Yeah we still have some manufacturing but that will soon all go. Look at the very STEEP decline of manufacturing jobs.And some of those jobs they call manufacturing are in mining etc. which are not really manufacturing. And you keep pointing out the value of manufactured U.S. goods increases . Yeah sure in inflated dollars but jobs and the actual stuff produced are in China.


96 posted on 05/11/2012 12:50:28 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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To: rurgan
Anyone that thinks that we the U.S.A. can survive when another country(S) produces practically every damn thing we use is not living in reality but in the media created alternate universe.

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think they're making lots of money off of the situation, and couldn't care less if America suffers, as long as they profit.

97 posted on 05/11/2012 1:14:28 AM PDT by airborne (Paratroopers! Good to the last drop!)
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To: rurgan
You free traders agree with Obama, democrats and Marx on this free trade.

They don't favor free trade at all. Wherever did you get that idea?

Anyone that thinks that we the U.S.A. can survive when another country(S) produces practically every damn thing we use is not living in reality but in the media created alternate universe.

The question you need to ask yourself is why isn't more of it produced here? Now, some stuff will always be made in other countries -- it would be economically foolish for us to try to be self-sufficient. But much more could be manufactured, mined, or drilled for here to be sure.

Hint: it isn't because of our wages. That's a shibboleth. Our wages are relatively high in the U.S. because we have invested trillions into technology that makes each worker more productive. In general, wages as a percent of revenues are the same here.

Curtailing our freedom will not ever bring us more jobs.

98 posted on 05/11/2012 2:24:37 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: rurgan
I’ll reply to your post point by point later,

Excellent! Hopefully you'll make more sense.

You free traders agree with Obama, democrats and Marx on this free trade.

Please explain how. Be as precise as you can.

It’s ridiculous to give China all our technology

I agree.

and allow them to make most (soon every little thing) we use.

We imported a bit less than $400 billion in Chinese goods last year. Do you imagine that is within light years of "soon every little thing we use"?

We are living on debt and that is not sustainable.

Yes, the government spends way too much. You realize a trade deficit is different than a budget deficit, don't you?

Yeah we still have some manufacturing but that will soon all go. Look at the very STEEP decline of manufacturing jobs.

What about manufacturing output?

And you keep pointing out the value of manufactured U.S. goods increases .

I sure do, because some people, believe it or not, don't think we make anything in America anymore.

99 posted on 05/11/2012 2:29:50 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
$400 billion in Chinese goods last year”

You said that. I think it is higher(anyone cam make statistics to say practically anything they want and stats U.S. imported 2.2 trillion dollars of imported goods to the U.S. from ALL countries) So china is probably higher than $400 billion. Yeah china is the main problem but many countries are copying China. Still even your number is a HUGE number and how many jobs is that and that is from ONE country China. How much is your number per family(that's about $4000 dollars in goods per American family per year just to china). 2.2 trillion in imported goods is how much per family, per person in the U.s. do the math($20,000 per family). A country that has to have other countries( mainly China) make 2.2 trillion of the things we use and you say that is ok? you are not living in reality. imagine how many jobs, technology , factories etc we'd have in the U.S. if we produced just 1/3 of that 2.2 trillion that we import from other countries? And the worse part is it's getting worse every month so soon as I said practically everything we use will be made in China. Practically everyone knows that most of the stuff we use in made in China . Only you and some other free traders believe otherwise . yes we all are wrong and only you are right( NOT). We import 2.2 trillion of the things we use per year. That's almost practically everything we use already and if anything is left it will soon go overseas. And you wonder why we have to borrow so much , not just Obama's 5 trillion it borrowed but every level of government and individual is also in debt (100 trillion in unfunded liabilities and you fiddle while Rome burns) wake up you free traders.you must not live in the U.S. you are losing money.

Lets take one industry , the electronics industry. That was invented in the U.S.A. . The U.S.A invented and made personal computers, TVS, VCRs, radios etc. Now all of that is made in china.Practically Nothing in that industry is made in the U.S.A. (soon NOThing period). take one product out of the thousands of electronics products, personal computers. Imagine if we put just one factory making ipads here in the U.S.A . How many jobs, technology will that create? and the supply chains to that factory/product, factories for each part like the computer chips,screen, the wires the plastic for the wires and the steel for the parts etc, . Just one factory in that chain has factory workers, engineers, embedded programmers,software engineers, process engineers, electricians, custodians, accountants, lawyers, practically every occupation and technology occupations. all that is in China now and we have lost the ability to manufacture high tech products . You think that is no problem but you put up liberal media propaganda stats etc. You have no idea what makes economy , you think that leaving China have all those jobs and technology and letting them make all that for us is good. you are not living in reality.

100 posted on 05/13/2012 6:40:17 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 3 years. China makes everything taking U.S. ability to manufacture)
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