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Atlantis: The Evidence [ Thera, Crete, the usual modern myths ]
Watchumentary ^ | January 1st, 2011 | BBC, Timewatch, Natalie Maynes, Bettany Hughes

Posted on 05/20/2012 5:46:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

In this Timewatch special, historian Bettany Hughes unravels one of the most intriguing mysteries of all time.

She presents a series of geological, archaeological and historical clues to show that the legend of Atlantis was inspired by a real historical event -- the greatest natural disaster of the ancient world.

She is tracing the origins of the Atlantis myth and presenting evidence that the Thera eruption inspired Plato's account of the mystical land.

2,400 years ago Greek philosopher Plato wrote of an ancient island civilization of unparalleled wealth and splendor, which was struck by earthquakes and floods and was swallowed up by the sea in one grievous day and night.

"But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island." (Plato, as translated by Benjamin Jowett).

(Excerpt) Read more at watchdocumentary.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: aegean; akrotiri; atlantis; calliste; catastrophism; crete; godsgravesglyphs; greece; minoans; santorini; sunkencivilizations; thera
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Also found in entire on YouTube:
Historian Bettany Hughes examines The Minoan eruption of Thera, which was a major catastrophic volcanic eruption estimated to have occurred in the mid-second millennium BC. The eruption was one of the largest volcanic events on Earth in recorded history. The eruption devastated the island of Thera (also called Santorini), including the Minoan settlement at Akrotiri, as well as communities and agricultural areas on nearby islands and on the coast of Crete. The eruption seems to have inspired certain Greek myths and may have also caused turmoil in Egypt. Additionally, it has been speculated that the Minoan eruption and the destruction of the city at Akrotiri provided the basis for or otherwise inspired Plato's story of Atlantis.

Atlantis: the evidence

1 posted on 05/20/2012 5:46:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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Ireland Is Lost Island of Atlantis, Says Scientist
  Posted by Red Badger
On News/Activism 08/06/2004 3:41:50 PM EDT · 80 replies · 2,303+ views


REUTERS | 8/6/2004 | Kevin Smith
DUBLIN (Reuters) - Atlantis, the legendary island nation over whose existence controversy has raged for thousands of years, was actually Ireland, according to a new theory by a Swedish scientist. Atlantis, the Greek philosopher Plato wrote in 360 BC, was an island in the Atlantic Ocean where an advanced civilization developed some 11,500 years ago until it was hit by a cataclysmic natural disaster and sank beneath the waves. Geographer Ulf Erlingsson, whose book explaining his theory will be published next month, says the measurements, geography, and landscape of Atlantis as described by Plato match Ireland almost exactly. "I am...
 

2 posted on 05/20/2012 5:53:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; ...
Atlantis: The Evidence
Alas, there is none.


3 posted on 05/20/2012 5:53:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
I watched this on YouTube earlier today. Besides being tediously derivative, Hughes' pattern of using a small handful of over-the-top adjectives ("incredible!" for one example) is difficult to miss in this mess.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


4 posted on 05/20/2012 5:53:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

They need more clothes apparently


5 posted on 05/20/2012 6:00:14 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: SunkenCiv
What everybody needs to do is keep their eye on the description of the city.

There's one near Lake Titicaca in Chile and another Doñana National Park in Spain (and there are references to another one just like it on the Portuguese coast somewhere).

That's the only way you get a link up to the Egyptian interest in these places ~ cocaine inside the Mummies!

6 posted on 05/20/2012 6:03:10 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"That's the only way you get a link up to the Egyptian interest in these places ~ cocaine inside the Mummies! "

I always considered that King Solomon's miners in Peru could have brought back the cocaine and nicotine and sold it to the Egyptians.

7 posted on 05/20/2012 6:12:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
Santorini Eruption Much larger Than Originally Believed
8 posted on 05/20/2012 6:18:58 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Thanks blam.
9 posted on 05/20/2012 6:22:21 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GeronL

That pic is from an Egyptian wall painting. It is used in the documentary, but seems an odd choice to whomever, uh, uploaded it to YT.


10 posted on 05/20/2012 6:23:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yes, why is that the image they pulled from the video?

Looks like a place they’d be getting lapdances. lol.

Is the nearly naked ladies the servants?


11 posted on 05/20/2012 6:25:38 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

Egypt’s hot a good part of the year, and some of the linen clothing the Egyptians made was so sheer it barely shows up in these paintings.


12 posted on 05/20/2012 6:29:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

I understand that for a lot of their history most children wore nothing until puberty started. Maybe the servant is barely into puberty?


13 posted on 05/20/2012 6:31:22 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: muawiyah; blam; GeronL

There’s nothing above the waves resembling Plato’s description of Poseidonia; either it’s under the Atlantic (which is exactly what he said; the shoal mud he describes remained in his own time according to his own report, a detail that Bettany Hughes ignores of course. As the Aegean was navigable in Plato’s time, and during the Trojan War, the pumice generated by the imaginary 2nd millennium BC supereruption has nothing to do with the description of shoal mud) and the island (larger than Libya and Asia combined, another detail that is not true of Santorini) was submerged suddenly (another detail that isn’t true of tiny Santorini) and may be entirely imaginary anyway. Perhaps some details were borrowed from diverse old folklore, I mean, doesn’t the Black Sea flood make sense as a source of some of that?.


14 posted on 05/20/2012 6:50:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GeronL

Well actually, I haven’t seen this much concern about nudity in art in a long time, and so hadn’t given it much thought. The bottom line is, they weren’t us.


15 posted on 05/20/2012 6:52:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GeronL

3rd from the right is not guilty.


16 posted on 05/20/2012 6:55:32 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
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To: SunkenCiv

I was thinking about Egyptians when I wrote that, anyway, what does ancient Egypt have to do with Greece anyways?


17 posted on 05/20/2012 6:56:14 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

I think I have to agree. sadly. lol


18 posted on 05/20/2012 6:58:00 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

If the one on the far left hadn’t received a de facto Brazilian via a chipped mural, she’d be the hottest. ;-D


19 posted on 05/20/2012 7:04:08 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1180724/posts?page=6#6

[snip] Akroteri, a Minoan city on the south part of Thera, is being excavated. About 3-6 feet (1-2 m) of ash fell on the city which had a population of about 30,000. The residents appear to have been successfully evacuated prior to the eruption. No bodies have been found in the ash like those at Vesuvius. Archeologists also reported that movable objects had been taken from the city... The Kameni Islands formed after the caldera. Eleven eruptions since 197 B.C. have made the two islands. [/snip]


20 posted on 05/20/2012 7:04:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ve always thought, considering the “Libya and Asia combined” tidbit, that if Atlantis had any basis in reality, it was from stories about early travels to the Americas.


21 posted on 05/20/2012 7:07:03 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: fieldmarshaldj

she would be the sentimental favorite I guess. Like the “girl next door”.


22 posted on 05/20/2012 7:08:27 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

At some point in the docu. Hughes compares the wall paintings found on Thera and those of Egypt. Interestingly enough, the Minoan artists were apparently also employed by at least one Egyptian pharaoh.

Did Unemployed Minoan Artists Land Jobs in Ancient Egypt?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2422780/posts

Old Egypt investigator identifies to mysterious Hyksos kings [sic]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1605198/posts?page=26#26

A Storm in Egypt during the Reign of Ahmose [The Tempest Stele]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2375891/posts

Akrotiri, Santorini: the Minoan Pompeii - part 1 [of 6]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2376007/posts


23 posted on 05/20/2012 7:09:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Boogieman

The other clincher in Plato is that one could leave the western side of Atlantis and get to another landmass that could truly be called a continent — the Americas.


24 posted on 05/20/2012 7:11:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GeronL

Alas, there never was a girl next door to me... well, one about maybe a dozen or so doors down, up a street, to the right, and up another to the left... but she was a blonde, and she moved when she was 6. Not like those hot ancient Egyptian girls.


25 posted on 05/20/2012 7:11:41 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
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To: SunkenCiv

One of Plato’s signposts was that Atlantis was beyond the Pillars of Hercules, usually taken to mean the straits of Gibraltar. However (and I’m reaching way back in memory on this one to a book I read 30 or so years ago), there is a set of islands nearby to Greece which was also known as the Pillars of Hercules, which could fullfil Plato’s requirements without having to venture from the Mediterranean Sea. Mayhap I’ll rummage around the internet tonight and see if I can find a reference to that.


26 posted on 05/20/2012 7:12:24 PM PDT by Hootowl
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To: SunkenCiv

OK. So there was some traffic between them, they must have been at least a little familiar with each other.


27 posted on 05/20/2012 7:19:16 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: SunkenCiv
The Black Sea Flood has a couple of meaningful koinkydinks ~

(1) The Sumerians seem to have recorded an object which shared the same barycenter with Earth in the same orbit ~ it came close to Earth then jumped to a similar orbit with Venus, and someday it'll jump back. THis is reflected in the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh and his ginormous playmate Inkydoo. The data dates from BEFORE writing was invented and is in special symbolic notation.

(2)The escarpment keeping the Mediterranean out of the Black Lake basin broke in the same period of time.

Now, a question, how close did this asteroid have to get to Earth to appear to be nearly the same size as the Moon? Obviously it had to be pretty close. And, pretty big. The guy at http://www.barry.warmkessel.com/4related.html tells us of an expert in astrophysical phenomenon who says it was 3 miles wide ~ the body now crossing Venus' orbit is about 200 yards wide ~ however, 7,000 years ago if it passed earth as a large bolid just at the edge of the atmosphere it would have caused a stir ~ maybe a tsunami in the Eastern Mediterranean.

28 posted on 05/20/2012 7:19:57 PM PDT by muawiyah
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The Engines of Our Ingenuity by John H. Lienhard
The Engines of Our Ingenuity by John H. Lienhard The Engines of Our Ingenuity by John H. Lienhard

29 posted on 05/20/2012 7:23:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Santorini Eruption in 1950.

Santorini Eruption in 1950.

30 posted on 05/20/2012 7:24:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Hootowl

Probably the biggest issue never addressed by the Santorini contingent is you have to reduce Plato’s time and size numbers by a factor of 10 to make the eruption work. I’m not willing to do that though many Greek archeologists are. I guess they could all get jobs with Barry’s economic team.


31 posted on 05/20/2012 7:26:19 PM PDT by redangus
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To: Hootowl

Yup, there’s an imaginary Pillars of Hercules dreamed up by an author in the 1960s, who, not surprisingly, was trying to peddle the Thera-was-Atlantis idea. :’) THE Pillars of Hercules were at Gibraltar, then as now. Trying to relocate Plato’s Atlantis (his is the only surviving ancient source for the story) by reducing it in size by orders of magnitude and reducing it in age by about one order of magnitude, while arbitrarily picking a location still above water really makes no sense at all, but people continue to do it. :’)


32 posted on 05/20/2012 7:29:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GeronL

Apparently the Minoans were referred to as the Keftiu; Keftiu was the Egyptian version of Caphtor, which refers to Cyprus (not Crete, as is usually claimed; Crete was the Tarshish or Tharshish of the Bible), a big source of copper (or perhaps a transship point) which was shipped in the form of “oxhides”, ingots with two limb-like handles on each end.

After the Mycenaeans took over in most of the Aegean, and expanded settlement in Anatolia, they similarly took over in Cyprus, and spread westward into Sicily. The Etruscans (among others) had already colonized in Italy and other points west in the Med, but carried along their cultural traces, as well as DNA, from the Aegean. The Ionian Greeks were most closely associated with the Etruscans in trade.


33 posted on 05/20/2012 7:36:21 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: redangus

/bingo

It’s also amazing how often the Theran stuff is repeated as if it were an original idea.


34 posted on 05/20/2012 7:37:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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"Even when, during the respective Thera Conferences, individual scientists had pointed out that the magnitude and significance of the Thera eruption must be estimated as less than previously thought, the conferences acted to strengthen the original hypothesis. The individual experts believed that the arguments advanced by their colleagues were sound, and that the facts of a natural catastrophe were not in doubt... All three factors reflect a fantasy world rather than cool detachment, which is why it so difficult to refute the theory with rational arguments." -- Eberhard Zangger, "The Future of the Past: Archaeology in the 21st Century", pp 49-50.

35 posted on 05/20/2012 7:42:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

36 posted on 05/20/2012 8:13:51 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: SunkenCiv
Akallabêth (In the Elvish tongue of Quenya, "Atalantë" means "Downfallen")is the story of the destruction of the Kingdom of Númenor.

The complete true story of what is now called Atlantis is on YouTube. The Great Deceiver was instrumental in it's destruction.

37 posted on 05/20/2012 8:46:17 PM PDT by muleskinner
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To: SunkenCiv

Actually they found it off Spain recently.


38 posted on 05/20/2012 9:01:09 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

The submerged area known as Spartel island would fit as the eastern reaches of Plato's Atlantis. OTOH, that non-submerged area in southern Spain speculated about a few years ago would not. Wow, this is a longer keyword listing than I'd anticipated:
39 posted on 05/20/2012 9:28:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Whoops, four more:
40 posted on 05/20/2012 9:41:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: muleskinner

I also enjoyed Tolkien.


41 posted on 05/20/2012 9:46:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Beowulf9

Thanks Beowulf9.


42 posted on 05/20/2012 9:47:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

“I also enjoyed Tolkien.”

~ ~ ~

My favorite Tolkien quote. The Holy Eucharist is true. Remember for the time ahead.

The inspiration for the great fantasy novels of J.R.R. Tolkien cannot be separated from his profoundly Catholic approach to life:

“The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work,” he wrote, “unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion”, to cults or practices, in the Imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism” (Letter 142).

In fact, two of the great loves in the hidden world of Tolkien’s imagination were the Eucharist and Our Lady, - upon which all my own small perception of beauty both in

majesty and simplicity is founded”. By way of encouraging his son, he once wrote:

“Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament ... There you will find romance, glory, honor, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves upon earth ... which every man’s heart desires” (p. 53).


43 posted on 05/20/2012 10:00:00 PM PDT by stpio
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To: stpio
Luthien and Beren

44 posted on 05/20/2012 10:04:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks SunkenCiv~!

I’ve never seen this pic, ah, the rosaries. I’ve only read
a little about Tolkien’s life, his life was not easy.


45 posted on 05/20/2012 10:10:51 PM PDT by stpio
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There was Motsognir the mightiest made
Of all the dwarfs, and Durin next;
Many a likeness of men they made,
The dwarfs in the earth, as Durin said.

Nyi and Nithi, Northri and Suthri,
Austri and Vestri, Althjof, Dvalin,
Nar and Nain, Niping, Dain,
Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Nori,
An and Onar, Ai, Mjothvitnir.

Vigg and Gandalf) Vindalf, Thrain,
Thekk and Thorin, Thror, Vit and Lit,
Nyr and Nyrath,-- now have I told--
Regin and Rathsvith-- the list aright.

Fili, Kili, Fundin, Nali,
Heptifili, Hannar, Sviur,
Frar, Hornbori, Fræg and Loni,
Aurvang, Jari, Eikinskjaldi.

The race of the dwarfs in Dvalin's throng
Down to Lofar the list must I tell;
The rocks they left, and through wet lands
They sought a home in the fields of sand.

There were Draupnir and Dolgthrasir,
Hor, Haugspori, Hlevang, Gloin,
Dori, Ori, Duf, Andvari,
Skirfir, Virfir, Skafith, Ai.
Alf and Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalar and Frosti, Fith and Ginnar;
So for all time shall the tale be known,
The list of all the forbears of Lofar.

-- The Poetic Edda: Voluspo, the Wise-Woman's Prophecy

46 posted on 05/20/2012 10:12:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
couldn't resist
47 posted on 05/20/2012 10:26:35 PM PDT by wardaddy (the GOP are cowards)
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To: wardaddy

The spoken intro was always the best part of that “song”.


48 posted on 05/20/2012 10:39:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv; dixiechick2000; Travis McGee; Squantos

it’s like a curse i swear

for weeks now since watching Rock hall of fame (farce that it is..rap) and they inducted Donovan..who actually does merit it

i have been stuck on his electric stuff

he wrote some cool stuff...gotta be over 50 to know it though

except for Goodfellas when Billy Batts gets clipped...kids would know that

gotta go listen to Hurdy Gurdy Man one more time..lol


49 posted on 05/20/2012 11:03:50 PM PDT by wardaddy (the GOP are cowards)
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To: wardaddy

I love late 60s/early 70s music. I have two radio stations tuned to classic rock, not to mention those I have in my iphone and ipad.

Donovan...way down below the ocean. Love it!

My absolute fav is Mississippi Queen.

My fav for dancing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3U7zR18M_s

The all time best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeNbuHOVDHk&feature=related


50 posted on 05/20/2012 11:41:15 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (This hobbit is looking for her pitchfork...God help the GOP if I find it.)
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