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Microsoft reinvents the wheel with Windows 8
Marketwatch ^ | 06/03/2012 | John C. Dvorak

Posted on 06/03/2012 7:30:21 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

BERKELEY, Calif. (MarketWatch) — I am writing this review on a computer that runs Windows Vista. It’s not that bad.

Generally speaking, I like Microsoft Corp. MSFT -2.54% and what it has done. Over the years, I’ve even supported the idea that Microsoft’s Bob interface was mismarketed and actually was unique and interesting.

That said, Windows 8 looks to me to be an unmitigated disaster that could decidedly hurt the company and its future.

This opinion is based on using the new release candidate beta that is pretty much what will finally ship after some bug fixes.

It’s not that the product out-and-out stinks. It is refreshingly slick-looking and modern, albeit without any charm whatsoever.

The real problem is that it is both unusable and annoying. It makes your teeth itch as you keep asking, “Why are they doing this!?”

First of all, the system-software product is mostly divorced from all the thought and trends developed by Windows over the years, as if to say that they were wrong the whole time, so let’s try something altogether new.

No business will tolerate this software, let me assure you. As a productivity tool, it is unusable.

Most applications cannot even be scaled down and so take up the whole screen. To even get out of these “apps,” you have to ram the cursor down into the lower left corner and click. That puts you back onto the vapid “Metro” start screen, where you can begin another miserable adventure.

Do you work on a huge 27-inch or bigger monitor? You know, so you have room to organize your programs and files? Well, imagine everything running full screen on that. It’s a joke.

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


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KEYWORDS: microsoft; windows8
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1 posted on 06/03/2012 7:30:30 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Not a fan of the Metro-sexual thing they are pushing on their customers. I really don't see windows 8 working out in the business environment with the stupid metro-sexual start screen with colored blocks that resemble the romper room area in certain McDonalds restaurants, which is supposedly good as a touch screen interface. Do you want your next start screen to look like this?

Then they stupidly made no way of reverting that atrocity to the classic start menu and unless there is a revision to be made in the release candidate version, there will be no classic interface.

2 posted on 06/03/2012 7:36:21 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: SeekAndFind

After XP it’s been all downhill.


3 posted on 06/03/2012 7:37:45 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: SeekAndFind
makes your teeth itch

Hate it when my teeth itch.

4 posted on 06/03/2012 7:38:10 AM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Blue Highway

One other gripe is you need to have a live.com or hotmail.com email account, and before getting to the metro sexual screen you need to log in to your email account.


5 posted on 06/03/2012 7:38:21 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: Blue Highway

One other gripe is you need to have a live.com or hotmail.com email account, and before getting to the metro sexual screen you need to log in to your email account every time you reboot the computer.


6 posted on 06/03/2012 7:38:40 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: SeekAndFind

This review sounds a bit over the top.

However I can easily believe that MS has (like General Motors and many others) become too big, too bloated, too inbred, too political, too sure that they understand what the customer wants.


7 posted on 06/03/2012 7:39:04 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Blue Highway

That appears to be a completely useless OS. MS still has the bad assumption that people use their bloatware instead of their own programs. I’m sure each of those blocks work with their own bloatware; IE, Media Player, Gaming Center, MSN Messenger, yadda yadda... For most other people who don’t use their programs, it will probably be a headache to use them around these pods.


8 posted on 06/03/2012 7:40:39 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Blue Highway

No more anonymity is the reason for the email login.


9 posted on 06/03/2012 7:41:45 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Terrible article. Usually Dvorak is pretty good.


10 posted on 06/03/2012 7:41:45 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: JCBreckenridge

This article mirrors what other reviewers have said. When closing programs is a challenge, you know this is destined for the trash heap.


11 posted on 06/03/2012 7:44:30 AM PDT by aimhigh
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To: Blue Highway

I’ll stay with WIN-7 Pro as long as I possibly can w-wo/support, since it’s as good or better than XP Pro was (IMO), and then go to a Mac or Linux. Screw MS and this Win-8 crap BS.


12 posted on 06/03/2012 7:44:49 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All liberals & most demoncraps think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It seems that the creators of all major operating systems are hell-bent on destroying the user experience, or at least dumb it down so Justin Bieber fans can use it efficiently.

Apple is going to make their Mac interfaces like IOS (think Ipod and Iphone).

Ubuntu already released Unity, which is difficult to use and makes no sense on a computer with a bigger screen.

Now Windows is making a PlaySkool interface.

At least we still have XFCE in Linux. As lacking as it is, I can at least make it do most of what I want.


13 posted on 06/03/2012 7:47:42 AM PDT by FLAMING DEATH (Are you better off than you were $4 trillion ago?)
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To: SeekAndFind
John C. Dvorak again huh?
Been reading stuff from him for over 15 years from the various ZDNET magazines (PC mag etc), and off the top of my head, I don't remember a single time he has made much sense or been right on any major issue. Dvorak will always be Dvorak, an attention seeking individual with his own private demons.
From the same Marketwatch:

Microsoft could change tablet game with Windows 8: analysts

“Our survey suggests 25% of users expect to buy Windows 8 tablet and Office is a key feature, especially for those considering their first tablet purchase,” the note said.

Given Microsoft’s strong position in consumer and business PCs, they added, “Microsoft’s Windows 8 with Office could become the second largest tablet platform,””

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/06/01/microsoft-could-change-tablet-game-with-windows-8-analysts/

14 posted on 06/03/2012 7:54:26 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SeekAndFind

Microsoft has done this for years, follow a great operating system with one that stinks. Anyone remember Windows ME or Vista? I held out on adopting Windows until Win 3.1 and still griped about having to manually integrate third party Winsock and TCP/IP stacks so I could get on the Internet. I held on to my Win98SE through WinME until Windows XP came out. I held on to Win XP until Win 7 came out. This is in fact my first Win 7 machine. I ordered my Dell Vostro with Win XP several years ago. At the time it was still a free “downgrade” available for people who needed compatibility with corporate software. They’ll shoot themselves in the foot with Win 8, realize they are losing sales, and try to do better with Win 9. I will probably keep my 64 bit Win 7 as long as possible.


15 posted on 06/03/2012 7:54:57 AM PDT by MtBaldy (If Obama is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question)
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To: SeekAndFind

I liked XP, hated Vista and love 7.

If this is what 8 is like, I’ll pass.


16 posted on 06/03/2012 7:56:00 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Worst. President. Ever.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The usual Microsoft is going to die claptrap.

Until they don’t, then the little choir of Apple/Linux loudmouths will go back under their bridges like they did after they said Windows7 was terrible.


17 posted on 06/03/2012 7:56:06 AM PDT by VanDeKoik (If case you are wondering, I'm STILL supporting Newt.)
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To: Dick Vomer

Bill Gates = your personal “Big Brother”!


18 posted on 06/03/2012 7:57:01 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: Blue Highway

Uh oh....Vista II in the making


19 posted on 06/03/2012 7:57:09 AM PDT by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s just an opinion, so mine is every bit as valid as yours or the next guy, but I believe the Win8 OS will be well received as it is targeted at the tablet and mobile user, even if the desktop user will see very little benefit from this OS.

Take for example the complaint Dvorak makes about the screen real estate on his 27” monitor example:

“Do you work on a huge 27-inch or bigger monitor? You know, so you have room to organize your programs and files? Well, imagine everything running full screen on that. It’s a joke.”

Well, this OS is not meant to enhance the desktop user’s experience, but instead a tablet users interface (how often do you muti-task via two apps at once on a tablet or a phone?) I manage resources in the IT industry, and I can speak from personal observation that there are a lot of the younger, constantly connected mobile (CCM) users who are very interested in this OS. Many are Android devotees so there is some substance here to Microsoft’s approach.

The general thinking is that the Win8 OS might be, in fact, a game-changer for MS in that they may end up suddenly dominating the non-Apple table OS market.


20 posted on 06/03/2012 7:57:35 AM PDT by GreenAccord (Bacon Akbar)
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To: SeekAndFind

Their current ploy:

Buy a Win7 pc/laptop now [earlier purchases do not qualify] and get the Win8 upgrade for $14.99

[I recall with VISTA that they couldn’t even give it away. They even tried to encourage online ‘pirates’ to pirate it. The ‘pirates’ didn’t even want that piece of crap.

==

The best thing MS should have done was update WinXP to use the expanded memory that Win7 uses. XP was good, stable most of the time, solid for productivity.

Win7 is okay, but it has some definite issues. Those programmers should be shot! and no need to wait for sunrise. The file explorer is atrocious. The User Access Control feature is atrocious, too. The Aero theme is cutsie but impractical for production computing.


21 posted on 06/03/2012 7:59:29 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Dvorac has been anti-Microsoft since DOS 2.1 IIRC


22 posted on 06/03/2012 7:59:58 AM PDT by chooseascreennamepat (The response to 1984 is 1776.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Dvorac has been anti-Microsoft since DOS 2.1 IIRC


23 posted on 06/03/2012 8:00:17 AM PDT by chooseascreennamepat (The response to 1984 is 1776.)
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To: SeekAndFind

MS early innovation has been replaced by pure greed. The pace of changing of O/S is that for no other reason.


24 posted on 06/03/2012 8:00:43 AM PDT by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: carriage_hill

yeah, this is like when XP was on SP2 and running rock solid when they tried to force feed the masses Windows Vista. That was only 5 years ago now, and they should have learned their lesson from that fiasco, but sadly they did not. Windows 7 is like XP was 10 years ago; ie. a stable platform that Microsoft for whatever reason seems destined to kill in fovor of their vision of trying to be like a damned touch tablet OS, or another attempt at being a wannabe Apple OS.


25 posted on 06/03/2012 8:00:43 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: SeekAndFind
Not long ago I gave up on a Windows Vista laptop and took a hammer to the hard drive and threw out the entire mess. It was the most unfriendly user operating system I have ever experienced with Microsoft, and I go back to the earliest version Windows 3.1.

I currently have Windows 7 on a newish laptop, but even then, it is not as user friendly as XP. Once you find your way around (takes time and effort), it's similar to XP, but I see no additional benefits as a casual user. May be business or industrial applications find it better.

Being a capitalist, I understand why these tech companies keep changing/offering new and supposedly improved operating systems. That said, how many more gazillions of dollars does Gates and Co. need? If they want another gazillion bucks, let them diversify and leave their operating systems to what works. Or someone like me is going to move to Apple, which I've been thinking about since the Vista fiasco. When they stop supporting XP, I'm done.

My biggest pisser is software companies who make me buy their latest versions so I don't lose accessibility. Quicken does it every few years and I use them to pay and print my bills. Just had to buy their new version which also isn't as user friendly.

So I take it that Apple doesn't change their OS and is probably the better choice for continuity? Comments?

BTW, Kaspersky Pure 2.0 is possibly the best ant-virus and wall to ever be developed. Since I put that on my machines, I have had NO problems with virus, trojans, malware, etc., and it allows me to download any applications without turning it off. Just a heads up.

26 posted on 06/03/2012 8:01:11 AM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath Is Forever)
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To: Blue Highway
I read some comments on 8.

They took out many of the features: media center, media player, etc.

They have crippled their own product.

27 posted on 06/03/2012 8:01:58 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: FLAMING DEATH

There is still a real need for a professional, working operating system. Even though even the company I work for has begun issuing iPads to people working remotely, since those people only need email, web and basic word processing, we have a lot of graphics and design professionals, along with accounting folks who just need a REAL computer.

Win8 looks like an extension of the Xbox, Windows Phone experience — a completely consumer experience. It doesn’t look like it will have any place in an office environment. It looks good for novice users and the web, email, games user, but useless for power users.

We can only hope they have a parallel Win8 Professional for people who still need a real computer. ...otherwise, I’m sticking with Win7 or buying a Mac. (Despite their similar approach in Lion.)


28 posted on 06/03/2012 8:02:48 AM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Blue Highway
"...before getting to the metro sexual screen you need to log in to your email account."

Truly? You have to log in to an email account before you can get to the home screen? If so, I'm going Apple on my next computer.

29 posted on 06/03/2012 8:05:20 AM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath Is Forever)
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To: SeekAndFind

I got miffed when they redid MS Office. Used to be able to whiz through creating spreadsheets & presentations. Now it takes 2-3 clicks to do what used to take one, and the whole navigation changed. I find myself having to click help to do some of the simplest tasks.

Screw Microsoft.


30 posted on 06/03/2012 8:05:56 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Blue Highway

I’ve been migrating to Linux for a number of years, this might be the final incentive. I’ve got a real estate program that only runs in IE is the only hangup.


31 posted on 06/03/2012 8:06:55 AM PDT by DaxtonBrown (http://www.futurnamics.com/reid.php)
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To: SeekAndFind

The screen looks like a take off of the Windows phone with tiles.


32 posted on 06/03/2012 8:07:40 AM PDT by Windriver
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To: SeekAndFind
Spoke with my computer-geek neighbor the other day. He had an astouding statistic, that Ubuntu / Unix flavors in less than a years time have gone from something like 8% of ( US ? or World ? ) users to 14 and change..

Anyone else have similar data? If so, this is big news...

33 posted on 06/03/2012 8:08:20 AM PDT by taildragger (( Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
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To: A Navy Vet
Truly? You have to log in to an email account before you can get to the home screen? If so, I'm going Apple on my next computer.

yes, this is after you boot up EVERY time. A real PITA.


34 posted on 06/03/2012 8:11:09 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: TomGuy

Micorsot has a habit of releasing new software that has LESS features than previous versions, and callig it an upgrade

One of the best products for productivity was NetMeeting,m and they just removed it... They have Windows live meeting now, but it is not as good

MSN Messenger was nearly perfect, so they took out the ability to block annoying spam users, and the web camera interface that worked, and replaced it with one that only allows one user to have a webcam sssion with you at a time. I used to have 5 or six people I would talk with at a time from offices all around the world.


35 posted on 06/03/2012 8:12:18 AM PDT by Mr. K (I AM WRITING-IN PALIN/GINGRICH)
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To: A Navy Vet

My biggest gripe with software upgrades/updates is that they can cause more problems then they resolve.

Just this morning I had to drop Firefox 13 and return to FF12 to get a banking tunnel safety software (Rapport) to work. The Rapport upgrade was supposed to work with 13; it didn’t. So, I had a choice of keeping FF 13 and losing Rapport or keeping Rapport and reverting to the previous FF 12.

Mozilla is still continued the rapid release insanity. I will be glad when the fire whoever came up that ‘brilliant’ [/s] idea.


36 posted on 06/03/2012 8:13:11 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: SeekAndFind
Why am I unsurprised? My Tosh laptop was dying slowly after 3 years (motherboard issues) and I needed a new one. I bought one last month because I did NOT want to wait and have to buy a machine with 8 on it. The sales guy at Best Buy said: "Oh--they've been testing this new OS for 18 months, no need to worry." And I said: "I have lived through ME and Vista, so I will stick with 7."

Good choice, Pb.

37 posted on 06/03/2012 8:17:17 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: P.O.E.

While they are shooting programmers [post #21], they can also line up the idiot who came up with the ribbon menus.

Those things are ridiculous.

Also, with Win7, I get exasperated moving the mouse around a block to find out where they hid the link.

Bring back BUTTONS. They were easy to find, easy to use.


38 posted on 06/03/2012 8:17:28 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: SeekAndFind

I supervise about 10 computers at my company. I still have a couple running Win98. Several of them are on XP, a couple on Vista, and a couple on Win7. I got rid of a Win3.1 three years ago. The problem is some of my periferals. I have several scanners and printers that will not work on the newer versions of MS. IOW, I bought a new computer for one of my engineers and had to spend about $370 more for a printer/scanner combo.

Normally we don’t provide separate printers for users to save on the cost of ink. But none of our scanners work with the newer versions of MS, and you can’t buy a separate scanner anymore. They are all packaged in those printer/copier/scanner/fax units. And of course when you buy a special machine for one employee, everybody wants one.


39 posted on 06/03/2012 8:18:45 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: SeekAndFind
I like 7, and see no reason to "upgrade" to anything.

If Microsoft pushes me to change by ceasing support for 7, I'll change to a Mac (and I know that I'm not alone.)

.

40 posted on 06/03/2012 8:21:07 AM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: taildragger

If Linux would ever come out with a user friendly, usable interface, they might get users to switch. I don’t want to have to learn a whole new OS just to surf the web and do basic computer production.

But, there dozens of ‘distros’ [whatever they are].

The few times I tried various Linux based programs, they were ok, but lacking. Some didn’t recognize the new widescreen monitors, some didn’t recognize the pctv card, etc.

Linux is still too much of hobbyiest thingy. If they ever get serious, they might become a challenge to Mac and Windows.


41 posted on 06/03/2012 8:22:27 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: catfish1957

>>Uh oh....Vista II in the making<<

Sounds more like ME II...


42 posted on 06/03/2012 8:24:41 AM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: Blue Highway; lightman; SF_Redux

Yes, I remember that fiasco. I loved XP Pro for many years and grudgingly gave it up on my business/home machines 2yrs ago, only to find Win-7 Pro a real delight and rock-solid. MS is making a fatal, unrecoverable error this time. (I’m hardly in the “guru” category with those on this thread, but having started on DOS2 in 1982, I’m more in the *advanced user* group and can see the sinkhole in MS’ road ahead if they continue with this junk.)


43 posted on 06/03/2012 8:24:41 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All liberals & most demoncraps think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Win8, Unity, Gnome 3.

What in the world are these "developers" thinking? That everyone only uses small mobile devices for all computing activities?

These are all very poor interfaces for large monitors natively, though at least Cinnamon running over Gnome 3 transfers a painful experience into a pleasant enough one.

44 posted on 06/03/2012 8:25:37 AM PDT by snowsislander (Please, America, no more dog-eating Kenyan cokeheads in the Oval Office.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Microsoft had a great run but it’s crap like this that makes me thing that they’re nearing the end. The world is changing and fast, and they’re going to get left behind IMHO.


45 posted on 06/03/2012 8:26:58 AM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Blue Highway; SeekAndFind

46 posted on 06/03/2012 8:27:05 AM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Sounds like I’ll just be hitting the ‘B’ button on my KVM switch more often to make use of my far-more-impressive Linux Kubuntu desktop.


47 posted on 06/03/2012 8:29:29 AM PDT by The Duke
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To: SeekAndFind

As an end user its really annoying having to learn another OS especially if its inferior to the previous one.
Why not MS keep a sound, fundamental OS like XP and instead of overhauling it just add newer versions with more creative apps and functions. Maybe I’m just getting older and more resistant to the pace of rapid changes in this modern era. Yet still if something works well and good why flux it up with change for the purpose of changes sake to accomodate the less than almighty dollar.


48 posted on 06/03/2012 8:34:52 AM PDT by tflabo (Truth or tyranny)
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To: SeekAndFind
Over the years, I’ve even supported the idea that Microsoft’s Bob interface was mismarketed and actually was unique and interesting.

Yep, us oldtime Mac users well recall Dvorak down on his knees Bobbing for Microsoft, over the years.

If he says Windows 8 sucks, it must really suck. Because if there's one thing Dvorak knows ...

49 posted on 06/03/2012 8:35:48 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Blue Highway
I'll stick with Windows 7,I tweaked it a bit,this is my Desktop.


50 posted on 06/03/2012 8:36:45 AM PDT by mdittmar
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