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How did they define "drunkenness" in Bible times?

Posted on 06/12/2012 5:13:18 PM PDT by LouAvul

Today we have blood alcohol content. In California for example, if you drive a big rig, weigh 185 pounds, and have two beers, you're considered legally drunk.

But in Bible times, what, you wreck your donkey?

Noah drank. On one occasion (that we know of) he passed out on the floor of his tent. On at least that occasion he was drunk even though he was the most righteous man on earth.

Solomon talks about drunk in Proverbs 23. Seeing visions. Staying near wine. He's truly describing someone with a real problem.

But we know they drank. We know God recommended alcohol as a relaxant. (Proverbs 31) Yet both the old and new testaments condemn "drunkenness."

I just wonder how they defined it.


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1 posted on 06/12/2012 5:13:25 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul

Are you drunk now and looking for an excuse?

:)


2 posted on 06/12/2012 5:16:54 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: LouAvul

You’ll know it when you see it.


3 posted on 06/12/2012 5:17:16 PM PDT by encm(ss)
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To: LouAvul

What that proves is that todays secular pharisees make those in the old testament days look like rip roaring hedonists.


4 posted on 06/12/2012 5:20:28 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: LouAvul

Let’s just say that when they praised Samson for killing thousands with the jawbone of a donkey, he said, “I did whaaaaaaat??”


5 posted on 06/12/2012 5:20:47 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Obama needs more time. After all -- Rome wasn't burned in a day.)
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To: LouAvul; a fool in paradise; JoeProBono; Daffynition; Slings and Arrows

The word, translated from Aramaic to English was ‘jughead’.


6 posted on 06/12/2012 5:21:20 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I heard sin described as when you take something that is good and make it good for nothing. I think that applies here.


7 posted on 06/12/2012 5:23:04 PM PDT by Bizhvywt
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To: LouAvul
Noah ... was the most righteous man on earth.

That's not saying much ...considering what happened to most everybody else on the planet.

8 posted on 06/12/2012 5:24:23 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: LouAvul
"...how they defined it"

Exactly the same way we do. It's quite obvious.

9 posted on 06/12/2012 5:25:50 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: Bizhvywt

Are you saying I was sacrilegious? I wondered about that. I thought about holding myself back. But I failed, sinful man that I am.


10 posted on 06/12/2012 5:26:42 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Obama needs more time. After all -- Rome wasn't burned in a day.)
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To: LouAvul

My GP has told me that she thinks that the US has been completely unhinged when it comes to alcohol.
When she first stated her practice, people had before dinner cocktails, wine with dinner and a night cap, even was recommend to relax.
Now she says people are bombarded with anti alcohol (her words) crap.

I think the problem here is we do not teach people how to drink responsibly, so it becomes a forbidden fruit.

Ok, that in no way answers your question.

The Bible says drunkenness is the issue not drinking.
Everyone is different, size, age, food in the belly, even why they are drinking.....


11 posted on 06/12/2012 5:27:01 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: ClearCase_guy

ClearCase, sorry, I thought I was making a general post on the subject. Nothing about you or what you said.


12 posted on 06/12/2012 5:29:23 PM PDT by Bizhvywt
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To: svcw
True. Even in the US, beer for breakfast was a regular thing in the days of the Revolution. Water was dangerous back then.

/johnny

13 posted on 06/12/2012 5:30:42 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: freedumb2003

Ah, another Pharisee. Careful you don’t look down. You might fall off your pedestal.


14 posted on 06/12/2012 5:30:46 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: Bizhvywt
Whew! Perhaps I was too sensitive!

Must be the booze ...

15 posted on 06/12/2012 5:31:31 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Obama needs more time. After all -- Rome wasn't burned in a day.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

16 posted on 06/12/2012 5:32:34 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode or Evil, that's the choice.)
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To: LouAvul
Never once did God approve of drunkenness. Use ok, but do not abuse, that is the standard. Many denominations and religious folks go overboard and ban it altogether but that is completely unnecessary unless you are an alcoholic.
17 posted on 06/12/2012 5:33:49 PM PDT by vpintheak (Occupy your Brain!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

No, Samson was a Nazarite. He had taken a specific vow to eschew to avoid anything from grapes. That included wine (and raisins), etc.


18 posted on 06/12/2012 5:34:08 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: BenLurkin

Yeah, then he went and crashed his ark into a mountain.


19 posted on 06/12/2012 5:34:16 PM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: LouAvul

You missed the smiley.


20 posted on 06/12/2012 5:35:19 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: LouAvul
I just wonder how they defined it.

I would guess the way they defined it decades ago before we had a means of giving a number to blood alcohol levels: if you have had too much alcohol to function capably at whatever you need to do, then you are drunk.

If you are chronically too intoxicated to hold a job or otherwise support yourself and perform your duties, then you are a drunkard.

21 posted on 06/12/2012 5:36:09 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: vpintheak

God prohibited gluttony too, but nobody condemns eating.
Same idea, same intent.


22 posted on 06/12/2012 5:37:00 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: Sirius Lee

It took me a several decades to find tequila pleasing — after having my feelings on the subject skewed by a couple nasty experiences in college. Going down, it didn’t make a huge impression on me, but coming up was a sensory experience that stayed with me for over 30 years. But, now that I’m over 50, I find that tequila in moderation is a fine beverage.


23 posted on 06/12/2012 5:37:25 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Obama needs more time. After all -- Rome wasn't burned in a day.)
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To: vpintheak
Agree totally. But how did they determine drunkenness, I wonder? If we use Proverbs 23:29ff as a standard, then their definition would largely be what we describe as an alcoholic.
24 posted on 06/12/2012 5:38:29 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: ctdonath2

No, I saw the smiley. If he had been posting tongue-in-cheek, he would have included ;)


25 posted on 06/12/2012 5:40:37 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: JRandomFreeper
Wait.

What?

No beer for breakfast??!! When did they change that?

26 posted on 06/12/2012 5:42:43 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: LouAvul

Many times when the bible mentions going through life drunk, it’s talking about going through life without giving regard to the Word and not studying it.


27 posted on 06/12/2012 5:42:43 PM PDT by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: LouAvul

“Thou shalt not slureth thou words” comes to mind.


28 posted on 06/12/2012 5:45:42 PM PDT by xrmusn (6/98 Let's start from scratch by voting ALL incumbents out.)
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To: LouAvul

>>Ah, another Pharisee. Careful you don’t look down. You might fall off your pedestal.<<

Hey, you are the one with the potential drinking problem ;)


29 posted on 06/12/2012 5:46:06 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: LouAvul

“Thou shalt not slureth thou words” comes to mind.


30 posted on 06/12/2012 5:46:45 PM PDT by xrmusn (6/98 Let's start from scratch by voting ALL incumbents out.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Even cocktails were for the morning meal, hence the name cocktail, relates to the rooster crowing.


31 posted on 06/12/2012 5:47:38 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LouAvul

The state of drunkenness varied from one individual to the next, then as now. The condemnation regards losing one’s better judgment, becoming much more prone to sin. Being “merry” due to the influence of alcohol is not condemned, it could even be said that it was encouraged.

So, where’s the line, between merely merry and drunk? It’s the behavior. Acting out of character, making a total fool of oneself, behaving immorally.

Anyone who has been at least a social drinker knows when he or she has had too much. Slurring, problems with motor skills, speaking inappropriately, etc. so it’s really not such a mystery. Stop before you begin to lose control of yourself. An elevated mood is not losing control.

Some determine that any amount of alcohol is too much, and if they want to abstain out of a desire to do the Lord’s will then so be it and I support them. But, I do drink on occasion. I limit myself now. There have been times in my life when I didn’t. I would have been better off if I had.


32 posted on 06/12/2012 5:47:45 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: starlifter
You still can have a beer with breakfast. My Sunday morning special is stewed tomatoes, herring, beer, bread, and fruit.

But expect some raised eyebrows. :)

/johnny

33 posted on 06/12/2012 5:49:40 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: xrmusn

>>“Thou shalt not slureth thou words” comes to mind.<<

Hmm, I akways recall it as “thou shalt not worreth thy slurds...”


34 posted on 06/12/2012 5:50:51 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: JRandomFreeper
Bass turds.

God is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

35 posted on 06/12/2012 5:54:47 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: starlifter
Ooops....

“BEER” is proof....

36 posted on 06/12/2012 5:56:23 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: LouAvul

Ephesians 5:18

...be ye not drunk with wine wherein is dissipation...

If one is not meeting obligations that would probably fit as drunkenness.

Beer is food!
Bourbon is American nector of the gods!
Tipple is tipple...

Cheers


37 posted on 06/12/2012 5:56:53 PM PDT by petro45acp ("Don't" read 'HOPE' by L Neil Smith and Aaron Zelman...it will bring tears to eyes. BORE!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: LouAvul

God in his goodness, sent the grape,

To cheer both great and small,

Little fools sometimes drink too much,

and great fools not at all.


38 posted on 06/12/2012 5:59:37 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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To: svcw
I think the problem here is we do not teach people how to drink responsibly, so it becomes a forbidden fruit.

Our ridiculous 21-year old drinking age combined with draconian punishments for "underage" drinking (applied to both the drinker and the adult who provided them alcohol) have prevented parents from teaching responsible drinking habits to their children. As such, far too many young people today learn irresponsible drinking habits from their friends and peers when they move away from home.

39 posted on 06/12/2012 6:00:04 PM PDT by Drew68 (I WILL vote to defeat Barack Hussein Obama!)
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To: LouAvul

When people tell you you’re drunk, you’re drunk.


40 posted on 06/12/2012 6:00:31 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: LouAvul
MADD started the erosion of individual rights and folks on both sides of the political spectrum jumped on it, imitating the state legislative agenda, to promote their version of control of the masses.

Drunk is not defined by any rational or biblical standard. It is defined by those who want to control your life..

41 posted on 06/12/2012 6:08:40 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: BenLurkin

Noah wasn’t sinless but his DNA wasn’t tainted by Niphilim.


42 posted on 06/12/2012 6:08:43 PM PDT by bigcat32
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To: Drew68

Man, that is so true.
I had an opportunity to visit Italy, Greece and Turkey last year. My young granddaughter cam with me, every place that I ordered wine, I was asked if she would like some as well. the wine is diluted with water. In Sicily, I asked them about that request and was told the water tasted terrible and it was a way to cover the cost. We talked about issues with public drunkenness or kids having issues and was told there was none.
In Greece I ordered Ouzo and no they did not offer her that, POWERFUL stuff.


43 posted on 06/12/2012 6:17:49 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: montanajoe
Drunk is not defined by any rational or biblical standard. It is defined by those who want to control your life.

Brilliant! and BRAVO!

44 posted on 06/12/2012 6:19:25 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LouAvul
Getting buzzed differs with each drink. Beer gets you there slower than wine, which is slower than hard liquor. Beer also 'feeds' you somewhat. Wine is best with food, as are liquors. White Lightning goes best with moderation, food, and a banjo.

If you are an artist (most of us are but seldom realize it) a light alcohol buzz (a couple of drinks) with a small hit of green bud (weed) can do interesting things to one's art. Weed is a spiritual ingredient that can be utilized to good effect in an artistic way. Taken with alcohol one must first realize that the effect will be to magnify the 'buzz' one gets from drink, so, go lightly.

Not sure I'd want a heart surgeon working under these conditions but painters, sculptors, and musicians might benefit from the 'attention' that comes from such a state. I play music but I'd like to try painting. What I'd expect to gain from stepping away from 'normal' might be things like brush-strokes and color which are endless and which the Masters have set the bar high enough nobody's getting there without serious study and effort.

In music, I've found it easier to blow through ceilings or plateaus that inevitably block my progress to something desired. You can do it without 'lubing' and that may be preferred (no sin, baby). But, if you've got to build a yacht that has to hold two-of-everything, anything that might help you blow-through obstacles could come in handy- especially if it's never been done before.

PS. No powders, pills, or dots in my travels. Getting back to Nature doesn't include wearing a Jet Pack.

45 posted on 06/12/2012 6:54:10 PM PDT by budwiesest (It's that girl from Alaska, again.)
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To: LouAvul

Looking at Ecclesiastes, and knowing there is nothing new under the sun; I would say they used the same way that we do today.


46 posted on 06/12/2012 6:58:50 PM PDT by vpintheak (Occupy your Brain!)
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To: Revolting cat!

47 posted on 06/12/2012 7:03:03 PM PDT by Daffynition (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Stop before you begin to lose control of yourself.

I think you nail it right there . . . I might add, stop short of endangering yourself and others.

48 posted on 06/12/2012 7:12:48 PM PDT by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: Drew68
As such, far too many young people today learn irresponsible drinking habits from their friends and peers when they move away from home.

I agree. The first time I drank, I was abusing it along with friends who were abusing it. My father gew up around alcoholic family members, became a minister, and towed a near-tee-totaler line . . . but NEVER preached total abstinance. His great-grandmother was a Cherokee Indian, which may have contributed to the alcohol intolerance. Has not been a problem with me or my brother.

I violated the law and taught my the underage sons by example how to use it responsibly and under control. The oldest now barely drinks by choice and the youngest seems to keep it under control, but he is just 24 and at a prime abuse age.

49 posted on 06/12/2012 7:23:43 PM PDT by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: LouAvul

My understanding of the many verses on the subject is that you may drink, but you shouldn’t get drunk.

Everyone’s tolerance to alcohol is different, and even one person’s tolerance is different at different times, so you aren’t going to find any absolute standard as to what “drunk” means. The Bible doesn’t focus on physical things like BAC, though, it focuses on spiritual things, so I think it’s a safe standard to say that “drunk” in the Bible means spiritually impaired. If you drink so much that it may cause you to stray spiritually, then I’d say you are drunk in the Biblical sense. If you cannot draw that line, or stop yourself from crossing it, then you probably should not drink at all.

There are also verses in the New Testament which enjoin Christians to refrain from activities which, although we may be responsible enough to engage in, would tempt others who are weaker into sin. I think alcohol falls into that category, so you probably do not want to drink with people who cannot refrain from getting drunk themselves, since you are encouraging them to sin. I think this is the reason some churches advise people to completely refrain from drinking.


50 posted on 06/12/2012 7:31:15 PM PDT by Boogieman
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