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Humans Did Not Kill Off Mammoths; Comet, Climate Change Helped, Studies Show
Indian Country Today ^ | June 13, 2012 | ICTMN Staff

Posted on 06/12/2012 7:03:32 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

Although human hunting played a part in the demise of the woolly mammoth about 10,000 years ago, homo sapiens were but bit players in a global drama involving climate change, comet impact and a multitude of other factors, scientists have found in separate studies.

Previous research had blamed their demise on tribal hunting. But new findings “pretty much dispel the idea of any one factor, any one event, as dooming the mammoths,” said Glen MacDonald, a researcher and geographer at the University of California in Los Angeles, to LiveScience.com.

In other words, hunting didn’t help, but it was not instrumental. The ancestors didn’t do it.

So what did? After thriving for 250,000 years, the huge mammals lingered on in dwarf form in the Arctic Ocean’s Wrangel Island until 3,700 years ago. Between 20,000 and 25,000 years ago, LiveScience said, the animals declined during the worst of the last major ice age, though they started to multiply in warmer interior Siberia.

(Excerpt) Read more at indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; clovis; clovisimpact; godsgravesglyphs; impact; mammoth; mammoths; mastodon; mastodons; paleontology
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1 posted on 06/12/2012 7:03:45 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
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To: Free ThinkerNY
"Humans Did Not Kill Off Mammoths..."

It was always a stupid theory.

2 posted on 06/12/2012 7:06:24 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

The knuckledragging, homo sapien haters can put this in their pipe and smoke it!


3 posted on 06/12/2012 7:07:10 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Free Stuff or Freedom! You Decide 2012.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

It’s a good thing some government outlawed those prehistoric SUVs. Why, they almost killed humans, too.

(Do I really need a /sarc tag?)


4 posted on 06/12/2012 7:07:23 PM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: Free ThinkerNY

B.S.

Ice ages have been coming and going for a few million years now and the Mammoths rode through them with no problem.

What was the difference last time? Man.

This is just a PC attempt to resurrect the Lib favorite Noble Savage myth


5 posted on 06/12/2012 7:10:43 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: Flag_This

It is a stupid theory.

Humans had almost zero impact on the buffalo until the arrival of two things:

The horse and the gun.

To think that stone-age humans could have decimated the mammoth population is ridiculous. An individual mammoth is just too large and powerful, human hunter time could have been way more effective against smaller prey.


6 posted on 06/12/2012 7:10:47 PM PDT by djf ("There are more old drunkards than old doctors." - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Doesn't matter...they'll be back in 5 years:

Within five years, a woolly mammoth will likely be cloned, according to scientists who have just recovered well-preserved bone marrow in a mammoth thigh bone. Japan's Kyodo News first reported the find. You can see photos of the thigh bone at this Kyodo page.

Russian scientist Semyon Grigoriev, acting director of the Sakha Republic's mammoth museum, and colleagues are now analyzing the marrow, which they extracted from the mammoth's femur, found in Siberian permafrost soil.

(link)
7 posted on 06/12/2012 7:11:56 PM PDT by kevcol
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To: Free ThinkerNY

“Global warming killed the mammoths.” Another piece of crap from the Leftards.


8 posted on 06/12/2012 7:14:08 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: kevcol

I still think cloning is the hard way, and they could probably get viable eggs and sperm from recent finds.


9 posted on 06/12/2012 7:15:49 PM PDT by djf ("There are more old drunkards than old doctors." - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Can these lefties just go ahead and off themselves and be done with it? Would save a lot of time and money. Seriously.


10 posted on 06/12/2012 7:18:14 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (A MUST WATCH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KeOLurcQaqI)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Why couldn’t woolly mammoths just stop driving gas-guzzling personal vehicles, switch from coal to “renewables” to generate power, and stop redeveloping the land so much . . . ? (Oh wait; they were wild animals. Climate change??)


11 posted on 06/12/2012 7:20:26 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: qam1
"What was the difference last time? Man."

So who killed off the hundreds of other species that checked out at the same time?

12 posted on 06/12/2012 7:20:26 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: djf

I know of a few groups (incl Penn Univ) who have been warming this up for 10 years. They got the Mammoth sequence done first, just needed to complete the African elephant. So the sequencing part is done as far as I know. I haven’t heard yet about finding viable sperm or eggs, but its possible.


13 posted on 06/12/2012 7:22:12 PM PDT by kevcol
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To: qam1
The difference was more subtle ~ the Big Ice was pretty much gone by 14,000 years ago and life was returning to the Far North ~ the mastadons and their predators, the big cats and dire wolves, moved north with the grasslands where the mastadons thrived.

Then, just as everybody was getting cozy, 12,000 years ago a comet hit mid-continent and busted up the residual icesheet in Canada.

We find the debris all over the American midwest.

The ice flows down the St Lawrence valley increased flooding the North Atlantic with ice. This triggered an almost instantaneous return to deep Ice Age conditions.

1500 years later that ice melted and the interglacial climate continued on to where we are today ~ 5,000 years overdue for the next glaciation.

The Mastadons dining on grass and other herbacious delights died out rather quickly with nothing to eat. Their predators also died out.

With the big cats out of the way both North America and East Asia were opened up to human settlement.

14 posted on 06/12/2012 7:22:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Free ThinkerNY

“Climate change.”

Yeah, that’s it, “climate change.”

And it’s happening again, unless you renew my superfatted research grant.

Isn’t it amazing how many scientists come up with theories that demand huge grants in order to Save Mankind.


15 posted on 06/12/2012 7:24:39 PM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: djf

****human hunter time could have been way more effective against smaller prey.****

I understand baby mammoth is both tender and tasty! And they are easy to kill!


16 posted on 06/12/2012 7:26:17 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: Flag_This; Free ThinkerNY
I sort of thought Vine Deloria had laid this one to rest around 20 years ago...

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Earth-White-Lies-Scientific/dp/1555913881

17 posted on 06/12/2012 7:27:50 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: Flag_This
Often overlooked is the massive outgassing of CO2 along with huge Siberian lava flows, unequalled in the rest of the world, at least in recorded geological time, which any geologist can expound upon. It is suspected to account for the sudden loss of mammalian life in the eurasian continent.
18 posted on 06/12/2012 7:30:06 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Blame it on Bush. Why not? Just as stupid an accusation as those for global warming, poverty, starvation, and lack of sunspots on the sun which are also blamed on Bush.

Never let facts get in the way of faux science.


19 posted on 06/12/2012 7:31:13 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: djf

Thank you ... a response that makes more sense then this ridiculous theory.


20 posted on 06/12/2012 7:31:47 PM PDT by doc1019 (Voting for the better of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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To: djf

human hunter time could have been way more effective against smaller prey.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Teach man to fish and he could maybe feed his family for a day.
Teach man to hunt down, sautee, tenderize and deep fry a Wolly Mammoth and he can feed his village for a month.


21 posted on 06/12/2012 7:32:44 PM PDT by xrmusn (6/98 Let's start from scratch by voting ALL incumbents out.)
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To: muawiyah

There is no evidence the mammoths went in one big blast or any impact caused any long term or global impact.

All these big animals went extinct over an extended period of time. What shows man did it was the last remaining populations of these animals were in the remote areas where man was last to show up.

So either man did it or by an amazing coincidence where ever man showed up the climate changed and a comet hit.


22 posted on 06/12/2012 7:34:39 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: qam1
There were 20 some glacial cycles (look at the Antarctice ice cores and the deposits of gravel off shore the St. Lawrence and other rivers).

That gives us 19 interglacials (10,000 years or longer) and an unknown number of interstadials (shorter than 10,000 years).

Mankind was present for at least four of the interglacials and many of the interstadials. The Mastadons thrived. The tigers thrived!

This latest situation, the Younger Dryass, was unique ~ the other periods of glaciation did not not stop and start up right away. They just stopped.

We are still in an ice age. But there are a lot fewer big cats around to stop our advances. Humans didn't kill off the cats ~ hunger killed them!

23 posted on 06/12/2012 7:42:41 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: hinckley buzzard
"It is suspected to account for the sudden loss of mammalian life in the eurasian continent."

There just doesn't seem to be a pattern to the extinctions at all - camels and horses (in N. America), but not deer or elk; short-faced bears, but not grizzly bears; dire wolves, but not grey wolves. The "mega-fauna" were wiped out, but the run-of-the-mill fauna weren't.

24 posted on 06/12/2012 7:43:24 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Why would a warming climate kill off mammoths when their close elephant relatives survived just fine in Africa?
Surely warmer climate means more food, not less.

25 posted on 06/12/2012 7:45:04 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: hinckley buzzard

That’s something like 500 million years ago. We are focusing on 12000 years ago.


26 posted on 06/12/2012 7:46:05 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Free ThinkerNY

What a good job.
Get a grant to study if rocks be come sand.
File a report.
Get the money.
Move on.

We are stupid.


27 posted on 06/12/2012 7:46:28 PM PDT by hadaclueonce (you are paying 12% more for fuel because of Ethanol. Smile big Corn Lobby,)
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To: qam1

You kidding right? Cause otherwise you missed the part about the comet....and of course the ever problematic issue of pole shifts


28 posted on 06/12/2012 7:49:09 PM PDT by Nifster
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone,
Allen West, and
Simon Warwick-Smith


29 posted on 06/12/2012 7:53:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: baynut; 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; ...
Thanks Free ThinkerNY.



30 posted on 06/12/2012 7:53:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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From the FRchives:
31 posted on 06/12/2012 8:01:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
The article is total BS.

They need to get off the idea that this earth is tens of thousands or millions of years old. It simply is not, as scientists have proven time and again.

The problem is their theory of evolution, which never happened. All skeletons of species have appeared fully formed and no intermediary skeletons have ever been found, despite the desperate search for them.

32 posted on 06/12/2012 8:01:52 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Free ThinkerNY.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


33 posted on 06/12/2012 8:02:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

WOW, thanks for that list of posts!


34 posted on 06/12/2012 8:05:02 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: muawiyah

But it was only the last ice age that man kind started to spread around the world.

I will give you another example, Australia

The Mega-Fauna there went extinct 50,000 years ago.

Why did they go extinct there 50,000 years ago instead of the 5,000- 10,000 here in North America?

Simple because that’s when man showed up there.

Same with The Pacific Islands 30,000 years ago, Madagascar 2000 years ago, New Zealand 1500 years ago.

When ever ancient man showed up, the Mega Fauna went extinct.


35 posted on 06/12/2012 8:06:11 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: wastedyears
It’s a good thing some government outlawed those prehistoric SUVs. Why, they almost killed humans, too.

36 posted on 06/12/2012 8:07:02 PM PDT by Bratch
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To: qam1

No, in fact, they did not. That peculiarity has been the reason so many have been looking for a cause for so many years, and why the blame has been put on mythical, nearly superhuman hunters.


37 posted on 06/12/2012 8:13:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: djf

/bingo


38 posted on 06/12/2012 8:13:25 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: baynut

Thanks baynut!
Study Jointly Led by UCSB Researcher Finds New Evidence Supporting Theory of Extraterrestrial Impact
University of California, Santa Barbara
Division of Institutional Advancement
June 11, 2012
An 18-member international team of researchers that includes James Kennett, professor of earth science at UC Santa Barbara, has discovered melt-glass material in a thin layer of sedimentary rock in Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Syria. According to the researchers, the material -- which dates back nearly 13,000 years -- was formed at temperatures of 1,700 to 2,200 degrees Celsius (3,100 to 3,600 degrees Fahrenheit), and is the result of a cosmic body impacting Earth.

These new data are the latest to strongly support the controversial Younger Dryas Boundary (YDB) hypothesis, which proposes that a cosmic impact occurred 12,900 years ago at the onset of an unusual cold climatic period called the Younger Dryas. This episode occurred at or close to the time of major extinction of the North American megafauna, including mammoths and giant ground sloths; and the disappearance of the prehistoric and widely distributed Clovis culture. The researchers' findings appear today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

39 posted on 06/12/2012 8:13:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Not to mention that almost all of the mammoth slayer stories seem to depend on this “cliff” that they somehow force the mammoth over.

I’ve been to the midwest, the Great Plains. There are places there where the nearest “cliff” big enough to stun a mammoth is probably more than 100 miles away!


40 posted on 06/12/2012 8:27:52 PM PDT by djf ("There are more old drunkards than old doctors." - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting.


41 posted on 06/12/2012 8:28:21 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Something large and catastrophic froze those mammoths in place. Many of them still had undigested food still in their stomachs, and their bodies were perfectly preserved in ice.

Now, what on earth can drop the air temperature so fast that it can instantly freeze something as big as a mammoth?

I don’t have a ready answer for that, but it happened. One of the more curious things, though, is that explorers haven’t found a similar number of quick-frozen humans in the same areas.


42 posted on 06/12/2012 8:50:24 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear
Can these lefties just go ahead and off themselves and be done with it? Would save a lot of time and money. Seriously.

Post of the year!

43 posted on 06/12/2012 8:53:02 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

Heh! *bows*


44 posted on 06/12/2012 9:01:23 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (A MUST WATCH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KeOLurcQaqI)
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To: Windflier

I’ve commented on this before. They are called “temperature inversions” of the severest kind. They occur when very cold upper air drops due to condensed moisture at near freezing temperatures.

When it lands on earth, because of its massive size, it kills by a literal flash freezing, all life. It freezes the lungs of living creatures which explains why the mammoths still had buttercups and other freshly eaten plants in their stomachs (not digested).

While my description might be somewhat general, I believe that it is close to what a massive temperature inversion can do.

Some holes in massive cloud formations are attributed to temperature inversions. I don’t have any more information on this except that photos of such holes show a nearly uniform circular pattern, like a donut hole does.

I would appreciate any additional information as it has been decades since I last read up on this subject.


45 posted on 06/12/2012 9:52:05 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Free ThinkerNY

For all they know a virulent strain of flu killed them off.


46 posted on 06/12/2012 10:05:42 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: SunkenCiv; All

I just finished reading this book, “The Cyclle of Cosmic Catastrophes.....”, and the authors demonstrate over and over and over (ad nauseum) if fervent pieces of evidence from all over North America (particularly) that there was, in fact, some impact that sprayed debris across the continent. The author also points out that it was not only the large mammals that disappeared at precisely the same time, but tiny little rodents that would be pretty hard for man to extinguish. This article is barely a snippet of what is in the book. It left me as a believer.


47 posted on 06/12/2012 10:18:04 PM PDT by Explorer89 (And now, let the wild rumpus start!!)
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To: Windflier
You know what it was if you're honest with yourself.


48 posted on 06/12/2012 10:21:23 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

In AFTER the It was aliens dude. :(


49 posted on 06/12/2012 11:45:49 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: djf

A few thoughts.

First, humans have been very effective at wiping out large, dangerous animals in many other circumstances. Everywhere we show up, whether it is Northern Europe, the Americas, or Australia, most of the large, dangerous animals die off shortly thereafter. I doubt that is a coincidence. The example of the buffalo is flawed because they were not very dangerous to humans, and because the sheer size of the buffalo population was massive compared to the amount of mammoths that could be supported in a similar sized region. I’d guess we’re talking on the order of thousands to one.

Your argument about the effectiveness of hunting large vs small prey is based on false assumptions. Small prey is faster and more elusive than large prey. It takes more time to hunt them, better technology and skill to effectively kill them, and they provide only a small amount of protein for the effort. Humans weigh the calculus of all this, and usually take down the biggest prey they can manage, to get the greatest return on investment. For example, Eskimos subsist on whale meat, not on seals or fish, even though they would seem to be the easier targets. Same thing with your example of the buffalo. Hunting rabbits or deer might seem easier than going after buffalo with spears or bow and arrow, yet we had whole societies of humans who decided to get most of their meat from following the buffalo herds.

Also, look at the example of other top tier predators like lions. They’ll kill anything they can to satisfy their massive need for protein, but their hunting behavior is quite different for large and small prey. They’ll stalk a herd of gazelles or antelope they come across, to get a quick meal, but they are lucky to grab one of them, and that meat will satisfy the needs of the pride for only a very short time. When they encounter a giraffe, on the other hand, they will herd the beast to a battleground where they can gain the upper hand, and then spend hours in mortal combat with it, taking much greater risks, in order to secure a much larger meal that can provide them food for days.


50 posted on 06/13/2012 12:38:01 AM PDT by Boogieman
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