Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Does a Man Ever Truly Stop Loving His Ex-Wife?
Dail Mail ^ | 6 July 2012 | Sandra Howard

Posted on 07/06/2012 8:04:05 PM PDT by nickcarraway

SANDRA HOWARD asks the question that unsettles every woman whose husband is divorced

Years after their divorce, Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner remained deeply in love. I saw for myself how abiding their mutual affection was when, one evening, more than a decade after they had separated, I joined them for supper.

Frank and Ava, the great crooner and the Hollywood star, were dining quietly in an unassuming New York restaurant and my first husband, jazz pianist Robin Douglas-Home, and I had been invited, too.

Frank and Robin had forged a friendship over a biography he had been writing of Sinatra. I was modelling for the Eileen Ford agency in New York at the time. It was 1962, a full five years after Frank and Ava had divorced when the four of us enjoyed that modest meal together. Yet what endures in my memory is the palpable chemistry that still existed between the singer and the actress.

Although he was married four times, Frank’s one great love remained Ava, and vice versa. I recall how they sat close together on a bench seat in that restaurant all evening, his arm draped around her shoulder, a proprietorial smile of pride on his face.

She was sinuous and elegant in a classic black dress: Frank once said she had the ‘easy grace of a tigress’. Although their marriage had been volatile, their love for each other never faltered. Ava, in fact, never married again. But Frank did: twice more in fact, and I have often wondered whether Ava’s successor, the waif-like actress Mia Farrow, felt undermined by the potent attraction Ol’ Blue Eyes felt for her beautiful predecessor.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Hobbies; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-94 last
To: nickcarraway
On the other hand, as Groucho Marx once asked,

"Are you married, or are you happy?"


And in that same vein, Groucho was
more than able to duet with Frank in
this memorable little ditty...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBvnxxigrIM&feature=related/
51 posted on 07/06/2012 10:58:53 PM PDT by mkjessup (Romney is to conservatism what Helen Thomas is to a high fashion model walkway.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Without a doubt.


52 posted on 07/06/2012 11:50:48 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: whitedog57
Does a Man Ever Truly Stop Loving His Ex-Wife?

The question comes down to why women wear white on their wedding day? The answer, of course, is because all kitchen appliances are white. Or at least they used to be. Then something happens. Suddenly all the white appliance just have to be replaced with expensive designer black appliances. Except the only one that ever gets used after that is the microwave oven. And who needs all that grief just to have someone set a timer to 3 minutes to heat a microwave TV dinner for you. Any 20 year old can do that. And you get to thinking. A wife is really like a car. Every once in a while you trade them in for a new model. Presto! You stop loving your first wife. Your only problem becomes explaining to people that your new wife is not your daughter.

Now where exactly is that sarcasm tag for posts supposed to go?

53 posted on 07/06/2012 11:54:41 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

We’re taught (by romance novels, movies, etc.) that man only has one love, which I disagree. I believe man has the capacity to love more than one persons. Now, I’m not saying that they’re of the same intensity of course. History, length, experience,etc. affect the intensity of each love.


54 posted on 07/06/2012 11:54:48 PM PDT by paudio (OTP: Why do people want to rehire a mechanic who clearly only made their car worse than before?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

After my divorce I felt like Tim Robbins leaving the pipe at Shawshank: I looked like sh!t, I smelled like sh!t but I was willing to swim through another 100 yards of sh!t to get away from where I had been.


55 posted on 07/07/2012 12:34:41 AM PDT by Mikey_1962 (Obama: The Affirmative Action President.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Absolutely yes!

My father had always said that I must marry a virgin.
So once my ex and I got closer, I asked her if she was a virgin, and received a strong affirmative.

After becoming engaged, and about six weeks before the big ceremony, I was visiting her for the weekend at her apartment, and she told me the truth about her past, then proceeded to show me Joe’s seaman stain on her bedspread, and here’s where Jim came, and this is Hank’s droppings.

Devastated, I left the next morning telling myself that virginity didn’t really matter. But deep inside I lost all respect for her. Unfortunately two kids later, I finally got fed up with the lazy bitch, and pulled out of the marriage.

That really messed up my relationship with my two young children, my mother and others, but I was free. So I’ve had to live with that, but I’m fortunate that by mind has completely blanked out the five years with the bitch! I truly remember very little, and certainly nothing good.


56 posted on 07/07/2012 1:27:33 AM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gunsequalfreedom

I know a guy that makes that same argument for real. And don’t forget the part about the sex. He gets a new Filipino wife every few years. He’s happy, the wives are happy (for the first few years, and then again once they have their green cards!).

He said it is a lot like leasing a car - and costs about the same too. The last time I saw him he was getting together with his current wife, his 5 former wives (all Filipino), and his one and only son from his first marriage!


57 posted on 07/07/2012 1:36:44 AM PDT by 21twelve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

OMG, yes!


58 posted on 07/07/2012 3:45:38 AM PDT by Rum Tum Tugger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

A man may indeed never stop loving his ex but at some point he may have stopped liking her.


59 posted on 07/07/2012 4:24:52 AM PDT by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ZOOKER

Since the article cites the marriage of Ava Gardner to Frank Sinatra, it should be titled,

“Does a man ever stop hitting his ex-wife?”

;^)


60 posted on 07/07/2012 4:27:45 AM PDT by elcid1970 (Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind. Deus vult!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: ConservativeMind

I agree completely.

I know a man who was married briefly in college. She married him so her parents wouldn’t find out they were living together. All wrong, brief, over before it started.
He remarried, three sons, happy life for nearly 20 years.
An opportunity came to be in her town...he wanted to know how she was doing.
We live in a world of staggering heartache, pain, and oh the unintended consequences!
I’ve been thinking, what’s the big deal about destroying our Constituton when we mock the Bible and the God it is based on? We mock the only solution to our misery.


61 posted on 07/07/2012 4:33:29 AM PDT by WestwardHo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Absolutely!


62 posted on 07/07/2012 4:35:19 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

For sure!


63 posted on 07/07/2012 4:43:26 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WestwardHo

“I don’t believe there
really is such a thing as divorce.”

There isn’t. It is right there in the verse: “What God has joined let no man put asunder”.


64 posted on 07/07/2012 5:00:34 AM PDT by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Hoodat

Nice story of forgiveness. Step one in getting out of bitterness is to admit I am not willing to forgive. Step two should be that I am willing to become willing to forgive. God, I need to get to a place that seems impossible today.


65 posted on 07/07/2012 5:12:04 AM PDT by Dustoff45 (A good woman brings out the best in a good man! A better woman might be just what this nation needs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

I married the ultimate bachelor, the one with all the big boy toys, the one who had the admiration and envy of all the men on the block who secretly wished they were as free as he was.

We met and three dates later, I moved in and we got married shortly afterwards.

I have friends in miserable, unhappy marriages, merely existing in life, each of the spouses staying just because there are children. It always feels so empty and sad in their houses -sometimes mixed with an undercurrent of resentment and hatred.

In order for there to be a successful relationship, each party needs to give 100%. We don’t have children so this is much easier for us than for couples who do. Also, as I have probably stated before, there is no women’s lib in this house. If I am further than 10 feet from the bedroom or kitchen, call me a runaway.

In a previous relationship, my boyfriend gave maybe 5% while sucking out and stomping my 100%, angry there wasn’t more for me to give. I could have been in the same boat as my friends if I had given in and married him

In my marriage- the first for both of us-there is complete unselfishness and total respect. We think so much alike and have never had an argument. If there is something we don’t agree on, it is taken to heart and prayed about. Ultimately, we have the same goals. We both chose well and are well suited for each other.

My husband is the love of my life, it is truly a Holy Matrimony. If he needed a heart transplant, I would give him mine. I couldn’t see living without him and would gratefully give my life to be with him one just more second.

I will love him until I take my last breath.


66 posted on 07/07/2012 5:12:09 AM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Uh, if she walks out on him with no warning, tries to take half his retirement pay after only seven yrs of marriage, no kids and put her through school then after divorce, sends him a photo of her illegitimate son....
Um, yeah....
(Happened to brother, not me...)


67 posted on 07/07/2012 6:09:11 AM PDT by matginzac
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pepperdog

ping


68 posted on 07/07/2012 6:18:19 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Hell Yes!!!!


69 posted on 07/07/2012 6:41:25 AM PDT by rem_mitchell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Little Pig

I can answer that one! Yes!! The one good thing my ex did was to divorce me, which allowed me to find my perfect wife of 25 years, well nearly perfect.


70 posted on 07/07/2012 6:53:52 AM PDT by nobamanomore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

HE STOPPED LOVING HER TODAY

Written by R. V. Braddock and C. Putman, Jr.

SUNG BY GEORGE JONES

He said I’ll love you ‘til I die
She told him you’ll forget in time
As the years went slowly by
She still preyed upon his mind.

He kept her picture on his wall
Went half crazy now and then
He still loved her through it all
Hoping she’d come back again.

He kept some letters by his bed
Dated 1962
He had underlined in red
Every single I love you.

I went to see him just today
Oh, but I didn’t see no tears
All dressed up to go away
First time I’d seen him smile in years.

He stopped loving her today
They placed a wreath upon his door
And soon they’ll carry him away
He stopped loving her today.

[Spoken:]
Ya’ know she came to see him one last time
Oh, we all wondered if she would
And it kept running through my mind
This time he’s over her for good.

[Sang:]
He stopped loving her today
They placed a wreath upon his door
And soon they’ll carry him away
He stopped loving her today...


71 posted on 07/07/2012 7:09:57 AM PDT by xp38
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
I dated a girl in HS for 3 years and a little after we graduated but we went our separate ways...we were just too incompatible. No hate for each other.

She died last year of breast cancer at age 25 and my dad called me and told me about it. A flood of emotions hit me especially when remembering all the good times with her etc. The lack of closure..not being able to say goodbye was hard. I cried over it..man enough to say it really bothered me and still does even though I have a great gf right now who I love very much but that first real love is tough to forget.

72 posted on 07/07/2012 7:18:22 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchen)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: umgud

Ah....the old joke.

Wife finds husband in the basement corner sobbing.

“What’s the matter honey?”

“Do you remember when I knocked you up and your daddy forced me at the point of a shotgun to marry you or go to jail for 20 years for statutory rape?”

“Yes, what about it?”

“I was just thinking - it’s been 20 years ago, tomorrow.” “I’d have been released today.


73 posted on 07/07/2012 7:24:13 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Old Sarge

Amen to that Sarge. I don’t know how many times I tried to reconcile, but she can’t let go and forgive anything and just attacks, full of hate.

So, I moved on.


74 posted on 07/07/2012 7:24:34 AM PDT by Bulwyf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Hoodat

Amen to that! I still include my ex in my prayers at night.


75 posted on 07/07/2012 7:25:22 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
For a second wife’s most insistent fear is that her husband will go back to his first wife; that an old spark will be reignited and they will fall in love all over again.

Hogwash. I'm a "second wife" (to my first husband) and I guarantee you, this has never been a fear of mine.

The author of this article sounds like an incredible insecure woman. Perhaps that's why she's had so many unhappy marriages. Her description of Sinatra and Gardner is not love but lust -- and when people can't separate those two emotions, is it any wonder problems arise?

If a man has a child by his first wife, as mine does, there will be some level of emotional attachment, but I think this is usually more on the order of respect, friendship, or admiration than "love." I would hope a man would be able to feel these things for a woman who has borne his child.

76 posted on 07/07/2012 7:26:07 AM PDT by workerbee (June 28, 2012 -- 9/11 From Within)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

My guy’s ex ain’t no Ava Gardner. LOL!!!!


77 posted on 07/07/2012 8:56:22 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WestwardHo

We are supposed to reconcile or stay single after divorce.

When a vow is made with God, it cannot be undone. It can be broken, but it is still in effect.

We typically only have such covenants on two occasions—when we accept Christ and when we marry.

If both are as tenuous and breakable as people take marriage, then we are all doomed.


78 posted on 07/07/2012 9:06:19 AM PDT by ConservativeMind ("Humane" = "Don't pen up pets or eat meat, but allow infanticide, abortion, and euthanasia.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway; Squantos; Yudan
Damn right they do.

I quit loving her within 2 weeks after she left me....tore up every pic I had of her into little pieces

Not long after, her married to some fat old rich f-word and she makes the trip 700 miles for a weekend of the one thing she never complained about cause he couldn't give her what she liked sexually.

I was single and not even in a committed relationship.

I told her I would have sex with a man before I would ever get it on with her sorry ass and sent her ass packing. Fast forward another year or so and she begs for it at my father's funeral....crazy assed woman huh?....this time I even had my new fiancee with me. talk about a strange pew of family women..lol...gave folks something to talk about...fiancee, ex, and older girlfriends who had adored my dad..rightly

it reminded me of when one of my best friends down home in MS died early 20s in plane crash and all his girlfriends showed up...about 5-6 of them all boo-hooing together under the tent...life is sure strange

She was a bitch to be married to and hell to be divorced from child custody wise.

This notion of lovelorn poetry if a woman leaves ya is for pussies who can't put their big boy pants on.

Now if your adored wifey DIES then wow....I don't know what i would do.

The pain ...the lonesomeness...makes me wet eyed to even consider it...like losing a child.

But beyatch leaves ya....

Let me tell all you young Gen X and Y boys here.

Woman leaves you...curse her memory and get that right in your head...even if you were an ass...don't linger over it and for God's sake don;t cry and act so weak for them....they don't respect that.

Go get yourself another one...even if you just have to fly to Santo Domingo or Rio or Barranquilla for a few weeks of pure unbridled hedonism with as many sun kissed nubile honeys you can afford or sweet talk into your life.

And get your head back on.

The world is full of fine women just waiting for a man..and there is one who will love you.

Mine is on my homepage..16-17 years now.

My ex leaving me was the best thing ever happened to me.

The one downside that a man loses on is the children. Even crack bitch from hell usually gets the kids and they suffer for it.

You do the best you can and be prepared to spend forever and it's never the same...that is all you can do till they are 16 or so...earlier maybe for boys if the judge is sane

Like Percy Sledge said...Take Time to Know Her

especially if you breed with her

Life is short...make it sweet.

and there is nothing finer than a ripe good woman...everything else is second place...distant second

79 posted on 07/07/2012 9:32:52 AM PDT by wardaddy (John Roberts collection of Sally Quinn's panties just got a hefty contribution this week..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

The better question is do women ever get over their ex husband...especially if they carried his children?

Women hate to be rejected.

I actually turned down sex with women in my youth who were married to or involved with friends of mine.

Eventually all divorced or split up usually because my pal was a jerk to them which was why they hit on me to begin with.

You want to experience scorn?

Do what I did and then hit on a woman who you previously rejected her advances because she was then married etc...

talk about going down in flames...painfully...the scorn in their eyes said it all

it was more of less:

“dumbass I offered you some then cause I liked you and I really really needed a man I was comfortable with to be good to me and sorta sweep me off my feet for a while..make me feel desired again after being treated like crap by YOUR buddy i was involved with”*

and btw...that was your one shot...bye

whew...I still remmeber the ice...wow...and they were all fine as grits women

i regret doing the right thing to be honest

* bonus for the cheater gal is she also gets to toss the fact in your friend’s face that she slept with ya and did all sorts of freak stuff she doesn’t do with hubby/boyfriend...the one caveat in it all


80 posted on 07/07/2012 9:41:34 AM PDT by wardaddy (John Roberts collection of Sally Quinn's panties just got a hefty contribution this week..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ConservativeMind

And we wonder why we are so miserably unhappy...

Know about sermonaudio.com?
Just been listening to Pastor Joseph LoSardo..”You Are the Man”. So perfect for today.


81 posted on 07/07/2012 9:43:18 AM PDT by WestwardHo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
If there is true love involved, it is like a death.

You never stop loving them, but when you remarry, you love the new spouse as well.

The love you had for the first wife is put in the background as a memory, just as if she had died.

82 posted on 07/07/2012 11:03:22 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: momtothree

She knows about my feelings, but not the post. And yes she does. She told me once that she knew she could never replace my first wife, but that she had the same feeling for me that I had for my first. I love her very much and we have had a great life together, but that doesn’t change history.


83 posted on 07/07/2012 4:19:40 PM PDT by redangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
The pain ...the lonesomeness...makes me wet eyed to even consider it...like losing a child.

Not even close, my friend. Not even close.

84 posted on 07/07/2012 5:09:19 PM PDT by Lizavetta (You get what you tolerate)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

It doesn’t really matter.
The vast majority of divorces
are instigated by the wife. So
obviously what the man feels or
wants was is and will always be
irrelevant.

Men love. The female of the species
lacks the intellectual complexity and
the emotional maturity required for
high level altruistic emotions like love.

Women are capabable of infatuation and on
occasion conditional affection. If the conditions
change the affection ceases.

When a divorced women says that she
never stopped loving the man that she
divorced that is code for “I made a mistake,
I thought I was moving on to greener pastures
when what I actually moved to was dirt painted
green”. Women only regret their divorce
decisions when the outcome isn’t the rosy
fantasy “eat,pray and love” bulls**t happy
ending they were banking on.


85 posted on 07/07/2012 7:31:20 PM PDT by nvscanman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Yes. To the point that I haven’t even thought of my first wife in months and months until reading this thread, and it’s a very neutral recollection. I just don’t care either way.


86 posted on 07/07/2012 8:16:00 PM PDT by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

I don’t know about men loving their ex-wives, but I uncategorically do not love my ex-husband. In fact, “love” is the very last thing on my mind on the rare occasions he intrudes upon my thoughts, regretting the marriage completely being the first.

Let’s just say that he was a newbie mistake of mine.


87 posted on 07/08/2012 9:11:43 AM PDT by TheOldLady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nvscanman

Gee, I’m sorry that all the women you know are like that.

Truly, we aren’t all that way. I didn’t divorce my ex for another man, I divorced him because of his behavior and attitude [redacted long, outrageous story of his destruction of our life together].

I was thoroughly traumatized about marriage and didn’t enter into another one for 12 years. I wanted to be sure that my husband was the right man for me, and waiting that long without youthful wool over my eyes was the best thing I ever did because it allowed our observation of each other’s compatibility and character. Both sets of in-laws were also observed and not judged wanting.

Hubby and I are at 32 years and counting. We love each other and have mutual high regard. I can’t imagine life without him.


88 posted on 07/08/2012 9:45:24 AM PDT by TheOldLady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Interesting post in light of your literary leanings Nick.

Hemingway of course never got over Hadley, his first wife, though he instigated their separation and divorce.

Fitzgerald never got over Zelda either, but not in a good way...pretty easy to argue that she hastened him toward his death.


89 posted on 07/08/2012 10:02:12 AM PDT by Fightin Whitey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fightin Whitey

I met my first wife on our first day of work. We began dating and were married before the first year was up. We had three children and were extremely happy, and almost never fought. She was my true soul mate. I lost her to the beast of breast cancer over ten years ago. Not long after I left MA for FL, I met a widow on line. We got married not long afterward. My new wife of ten years is an angel of mercy to me and I loved both of them dearly.


90 posted on 07/08/2012 11:33:07 AM PDT by Ax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Ax

Thank you for your story.

You are a good and blessed man.

Continued blessings and happiness to you and yours.


91 posted on 07/08/2012 12:41:30 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: umgud

Bump!


92 posted on 07/08/2012 12:48:02 PM PDT by fanfan (.http://www.ontariolandowners.ca/index.php?p=1_50_Your-Rights)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: null and void

I say yes. What say you Nully?


93 posted on 07/08/2012 1:20:26 PM PDT by fanfan (.http://www.ontariolandowners.ca/index.php?p=1_50_Your-Rights)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: fanfan

Love doesn’t die. It is murdered.


94 posted on 07/08/2012 4:00:10 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1264 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-94 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson