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Police: Hug Triggers Officer's Gun, Kills Woman
Boston.com ^ | 7/8/2012 | AP Science Writer

Posted on 07/09/2012 8:33:15 AM PDT by pgyanke

A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer’s service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother.

...

According to Stephens, the woman “embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge.’’ The bullet punctured Miller’s lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital.

(Excerpt) Read more at articles.boston.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: banglist; gun
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This is horrible for all involved. However, I must be getting very cynical in my old age... it occurs to me that the gun manufacturer or the city would have much deeper pockets than an off-duty cop.

How, exactly does a holstered weapon (pointed down) fire accidentally (trigger protected to prevent accidents or bad guys) and hit a woman in the lung who is hugging the officer from behind? Unless she was hugging his knees and reached up for his waist, this just seems so incredibly unlikely.

1 posted on 07/09/2012 8:33:16 AM PDT by pgyanke
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To: pgyanke

Maybe it was in one of those “Miami Vice” shoulder holsters, where the muzzle is pointed to the rear of the wearer.


2 posted on 07/09/2012 8:37:18 AM PDT by 04-Bravo
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To: pgyanke

Shoulder holster under his left arm, when she hugged him it rotated slightly.
Off duty guy probably went to push it back up or similar and poof?
/ end obvious speculation.


3 posted on 07/09/2012 8:37:43 AM PDT by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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To: Springman; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; madison10; ...
Accidental shooting by Detroit officer. I have some questions about how this cold have happened.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
4 posted on 07/09/2012 8:38:01 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: pgyanke

Premature ejaculation?

Went off at the slightest touch.....

Betting the weapon was “streamlined” to an unsafe extent.

Cops aren’t supposed to do that, and most have policies against lightening the trigger pull.


5 posted on 07/09/2012 8:38:15 AM PDT by G Larry (I'm under no obligation to be a passive victim!)
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To: pgyanke
Perhaps the off-duty cop was carrying a gun in something like this shoulder holster.
6 posted on 07/09/2012 8:39:33 AM PDT by Carl Vehse
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To: 04-Bravo

My thoughts exactly. I carry a S&W 4506 in a Galco “Miami Classic.” However, I still don’t see how she managed to hit the trigger. I can’t begin to imagine how that happened. Furthermore, there is, of course, a strap that slides between the hammer and the firing pin, exactly like what you have on a hip, duty holster. Whole thing seems strange to me.


7 posted on 07/09/2012 8:40:14 AM PDT by Doctor 2Brains (If the government were Paris Hilton, it could not score a free drink in a bar full of lonely sailors)
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To: 04-Bravo
Maybe it was in one of those “Miami Vice” shoulder holsters, where the muzzle is pointed to the rear of the wearer.

Jackass Rig

8 posted on 07/09/2012 8:42:35 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: pgyanke

In January at my concealed carry class, the instuctor went over the various holster options. I’ve owned a shoulder holster like this officer has, for years. I was surprised when my instructor pointed out a few drawbacks of this type of holster. One was you are always pointing the end of the barrel somewhere that is not directly into the ground, it is pointed at a somewhat higher angle than that. As your body moves around, the pointing also moves in a sweeping manner behind you. He mentioned the remote possibility of an accidental discharge while holstered.

This poor woman must have been a lot shorter than the officer. Hard to say how the accidental discharge took place, but that’s why it’s called accidental.

I like my shoulder holster. The drawbacks of a purse-carry are too great, I’d never do that (yes I am a woman). I like how the shoulder holster keeps the weapon very close to the body.


9 posted on 07/09/2012 8:44:55 AM PDT by TheConservativeParty ("The skinny socialist is a big fat liar."-Monica Crowley author of "What the Bleep Just Happened")
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To: pgyanke
Just off the top of my head;
Gun was probably holstered in a shoulder holster with the barrel pointed either up or to the back.
1911 type weapon with the hammer cocked. A safety was either defective or when she hugged the cop, she managed to somehow deactivate the safeties. I am not a 1911 fan, but if memory serves, that sucker has two. I am sure someone here that has one will correct me. Another case for the Mythbusters.
10 posted on 07/09/2012 8:45:32 AM PDT by Tupelo (TeaPartier ..... but no longer a Republican)
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To: pgyanke

Can’t believe I didn’t think of a shoulder holster...


11 posted on 07/09/2012 8:52:27 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke

Hugs are better than slugs.................


12 posted on 07/09/2012 8:53:16 AM PDT by Red Badger (Think logically. Act normally.................)
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To: pgyanke

Only police should have guns because ...


13 posted on 07/09/2012 8:56:30 AM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Tupelo

In a proper holster the trigger guard is usually covered and/or a safety strap holds the weapon. If the weapon was indeed a 1911 style carried with ‘cocked and locked’, the grip safety should have prevented the discharge. Something seems fishy about the whole story. If it were a civilian, and the safeties were disabled, the person would be chastised and probably charged with a crime, yet the cop is getting a pass from the media morons and the unsuspecting public.


14 posted on 07/09/2012 8:57:00 AM PDT by toolman1401
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To: pgyanke

Probably one of them there safe action Glocks. Only way for a gun to go off is to pull the trigger. Poor lady.


15 posted on 07/09/2012 9:00:28 AM PDT by Afterguard
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To: Tupelo

OT but I used to like MythBusters until I found out they love 0. I prefer shoulder holsters and my autos point back and revolvers down.


16 posted on 07/09/2012 9:02:37 AM PDT by mcshot (God bless the USA! OMG PLEASE vote ABO or OWW and our Country dies.)
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To: pgyanke

Sounds bogus. How does a pistol fire unless it is cocked?


17 posted on 07/09/2012 9:06:05 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: pgyanke

I use nothing but revolvers.

I woudn’t have an automatic for anything.

Revolvers are tried and true.They don’t go off without help and they don’t jam.

True, they don’t have as many bullets, but I don’t plan on being around much after firing 6 rounds anyway.


18 posted on 07/09/2012 9:06:59 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: pgyanke
This thread has just added to the FreeRepublic "bang list" (firearms interest list) by adding the keyword "banglist".

Any time a firearms-related thread is created on FreeRepublic, please be sure to add the "banglist" keyword to it so that interested FReepers don't miss it. Just a suggestion.

Let Freedom Ring,

Gun Facts v6!

Click the pic to go to the Gun Facts v6 download page!

19 posted on 07/09/2012 9:13:10 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: pgyanke
This sounds bogus.

A Boston blog written by an AP Science writer
about something that happened in Detroit.

I'm guessing the the off duty officer modified his
Jackass rig by removing the trigger guard cover.


20 posted on 07/09/2012 9:13:54 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Afterguard

You could do some research before being wrong...but then you wouldn’t get to express your biases.

Detroit PD carries M&Ps.

I bet circular saws scare the hell out of you. They don’t have a safety either. Not even on the trigger.

Luckily, I know how to use tools, so I don’t have to live in fear of an inanimate object like some do.


21 posted on 07/09/2012 9:14:07 AM PDT by MNIL
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To: Afterguard; Tupelo; mylife

Detroit Free Press said it was a .40 S&W.


22 posted on 07/09/2012 9:16:28 AM PDT by Springman (Rest In Peace YaYa123, Bahbah, and Just Lori.)
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To: Venturer

“Revolvers are tried and true.They don’t go off without help and they don’t jam.”

Wrong, and wrong.

A: No gun “goes off” without help, unless it has a mechanical defect.

B: Since you lump all “revolvers” together, I feel the need to inform you that only “modern” revolvers have firing pin blocks. Drop one of your trusty “revolvers” and see if it goes off.

C: Unless you put preserves in it, no weapon “jams.” Try cycling your revolver when you have a primer pop. Here’s a hint...the entire gun locks up, and no drill will clear it usually. Primer setback or getting a projectile hung up on the forcing cone will stop a revolver dead, and then the only way to get it functioning is by disassembling it.

D: Either is an acceptable choice for a self defense weapon. Those who have weak hands or are mechanically inept may find the revolver more to their liking.


23 posted on 07/09/2012 9:21:23 AM PDT by MNIL
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To: MNIL

Oh. A little touchy this morning are we? Lol


24 posted on 07/09/2012 9:23:33 AM PDT by Afterguard
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To: MNIL
MNIL
Since Jul 1, 2012

Welcome to FR

25 posted on 07/09/2012 9:26:03 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: MNIL

“Those who have weak hands or are mechanically inept may find the revolver more to their liking.”

That sounds like a slight on revolver users and I didn’t mean for it to be. I’m only prejudiced towards poor quality weapons. I own a few revolvers myself and have always liked them. I have a Smith 640 that is a great pocket gun, and goes with me when I don’t feel like putting on the belt/holster/mag carrier/etc.


26 posted on 07/09/2012 9:28:26 AM PDT by MNIL
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To: MNIL

I have never had a primer pop on any revolver I ever owned.

I have never had one fire from being dropped.

I will stick to my revolver, and wish you luck with whatever it is you like.


27 posted on 07/09/2012 9:28:47 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: pgyanke

Thats it,,, no more hugs for cops...


28 posted on 07/09/2012 9:30:21 AM PDT by ßuddaßudd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: Afterguard

So...you were wrong?

Well, lets change the subject then. I’m sorry I exposed your biases.


29 posted on 07/09/2012 9:30:28 AM PDT by MNIL
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To: Tupelo
1911 type weapon with the hammer cocked.

In which case the thumb safety would have to be disengaged and the grip safety held, and the trigger pressed.

Or it may have been the more common police issue Glock that only requires the trigger to be pressed, the "safety" being a toggle on the face of the trigger.

30 posted on 07/09/2012 9:32:27 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Venturer

As long as you carry, it doesn’t matter much what you carry.

But if you’re spreading erroneous information that can affect people’s choice of what they use to protect themselves...someone should speak up.

Revolvers are not fool proof. It is great that you’ve never had one lock up on you...if you’re anything like the average gun owner you put a box through it when you bought it and it has sat since. That’s like a guy saying “well I’ve never had a flat tire.” Well, you must not drive much. And you should stop dropping your pistols.

You’ve never been murdered either. Perhaps you don’t even need a gun?

I’m not anti-revolver, I’m anti bad info.


31 posted on 07/09/2012 9:34:15 AM PDT by MNIL
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Thanks, it’s all so new. I hope I can learn how things work around here.


32 posted on 07/09/2012 9:35:35 AM PDT by MNIL
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To: Venturer

True, they don’t have as many bullets, but I don’t plan on being around much after firing 6 rounds anyway.


‘Cause you’d be dead because the other guy had 15?


33 posted on 07/09/2012 9:44:30 AM PDT by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
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To: MNIL
There are those who just because they
have male genes, think they are
experts on firearms.

They occur even here at FR


34 posted on 07/09/2012 9:45:14 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Tupelo

More likely a Glock or similar pistol, than a 1911. The cocked hammer scares many who never realize a Glock is just as “cocked”, but it’s firing mechanism is hidden from view by the slide. Also the 1911 has that grip safety,,glock doesn’t.
Glocks and similar designs are notorious for discharges in holsters. Nothing wrong with the gun per se,, but they are very intolerant of a worn, sloppy, or poorly designed holster.
On the 1911, somehow the thumb safety would have had to have been brushed off, the grip safety would have had to have been pushed,,and the the trigger activated. With a glock or a clone, all that need happen is the trigger be pushed against the holster.

Shoulder holsters are almost always a very poor choice. Sweeping muzzle, poor draw. Most ranges and departments prohibit them. Really they went out with trigger shoes.
But thanks to Miama Vice, we still must endure them. If you want to be sexy, buy a real holster, and spend the money you saved on some sexy underwear.


35 posted on 07/09/2012 9:48:13 AM PDT by DesertRhino (perI was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Tupelo

I also have one of those Galco rigs for my 1911. I see absolutely no way a 1911 would discharge in that rig even if cocked. Both the grip safety and trigger would have to be pressed at the same time and the slide safety would have to be off as well. However if the officer was carrying a Glock and the holster was unstrapped and the strap was inside the holster and pressing on the trigger, that would perhaps cause a discharge. I don’t think the strap will reach that far however. This is all speculation without knowing more about the holster and if it was modified.


36 posted on 07/09/2012 9:48:39 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: pgyanke
I would be lookin’ for an unsafely modified concealed carry service weapon and/or holster before I closed this inquiry.
37 posted on 07/09/2012 9:54:28 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Tupelo; All
From the Detroit Free Press:

Police: Detroit officer's gun kills woman in midst of hug; incident under investigation


38 posted on 07/09/2012 9:55:07 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: DesertRhino
More likely a Glock or similar pistol, than a 1911. The cocked hammer scares many who never realize a Glock is just as “cocked”, but it’s firing mechanism is hidden from view by the slide. Also the 1911 has that grip safety,,glock doesn’t. Glocks and similar designs are notorious for discharges in holsters. Nothing wrong with the gun per se,, but they are very intolerant of a worn, sloppy, or poorly designed holster. On the 1911, somehow the thumb safety would have had to have been brushed off, the grip safety would have had to have been pushed,,and the the trigger activated. With a glock or a clone, all that need happen is the trigger be pushed against the holster. Shoulder holsters are almost always a very poor choice. Sweeping muzzle, poor draw. Most ranges and departments prohibit them. Really they went out with trigger shoes. But thanks to Miama Vice, we still must endure them. If you want to be sexy, buy a real holster, and spend the money you saved on some sexy underwear.

More Bullshit rumors, without any information.

NRA T/C CRSO


39 posted on 07/09/2012 10:01:02 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: G Larry

***Betting the weapon was “streamlined” to an unsafe extent.***

Many years ago I bought a revolver once owned by a local cop. It had a lightened hammer spring, and a hair trigger, and I mean a HAIR TRIGGER!


40 posted on 07/09/2012 10:02:00 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: mcshot

If by “love 0” you are referring to the episode where they visited the president and he “instructed” them to revisit the myth of Archimedes “death ray”: I like to think they weren’t truly too enthused about being there with him and/or the revisit. Adam was of couse his usual boisterous self, but that could have been an act. Jamie didn’t seem to be pleased to be there. Of couse Jamie never shows any emotion but...

...this is what I like to think. After all, when the president of the US asks you to do something most are willing to oblige, just out of respect for the office. Again, this is what I like to think. I hope to not be shown wrong, which is why I must admit I haven’t really looked into the issue.

I’d hate to find out those two are another couple of mindless O-bots. I really have a hard time believing Jamie would be one.


41 posted on 07/09/2012 10:04:19 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: MNIL

While a revolver can indeed have a popped primer, it’s exceedingly rare. It’s an order of magnitude more rare than a stoppage on a semi auto. Semi autos are normally far more sensitive to ammo choice. Semi autos can even jam in some cases by a poor firing grip.

And MANY semi autos can and do discharge when dropped. SO thats a moot point.

Anyone who shoots both much will experience many more stoppages with a semi auto than with a revolver. Thats just a fact. Admittedly, the semi auto will get off that first shot, but then the variables kick in.

The bottom line is that while of course not an absolute, “six for sure” is certainly approaching the accurate end of the truth meter. And revolvers for all their limitations, are far more dependable than semis. However, the difference is not enough to prevent anyone from choosing what they want and learning their system.


42 posted on 07/09/2012 10:08:13 AM PDT by DesertRhino (perI was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
Thanks alot! Now I have even more questions.
.40 S&W? in his waistband? under his shirt?
Went off when she hugged him?
This story even make less sense since you linked tie story.
As I said, Thanks a lot. :) :0
43 posted on 07/09/2012 10:13:52 AM PDT by Tupelo (TeaPartier ..... but no longer a Republican)
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To: MNIL

“Detroit PD carries M&Ps.”

The M&P is available with a 1911-like safety as an option, the trigger comes from the factory at about 4-5 pounds/is hinged with a block similar to the Glock so that positive finger pressure is needed to fire, and the striker is at rest until acted upon by the transfer bar. Not knowing which model the DPD carries (on/off duty), or if they had to overcome TRAINING shortfalls a la new yuk (the new yuk Glock trigger, almost 11 lbs pull!)by adding more tension to the return spring, makes it difficult to speculate.

Shoulder rigs (transverse with muzzle to rear) are very specialized and require more training than even the level III duty holsters.

Sad story.


44 posted on 07/09/2012 10:18:16 AM PDT by petro45acp ("Don't" read 'HOPE' by L Neil Smith and Aaron Zelman...it will bring tears to eyes. BORE!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

My opinion is well earned sport. Or have you decided that YOU are the resident FR expert, and all must bow to you as you make smart-ass erroneous remarks? I have seen more than a few Glock accidents involving holsters, some fatal. Some involving dead kids. So Mr NRA certified, take your emblem endorned bullshine and shove it back where it came from.

And nothing was ever wrong with the Glock,,it was always a holster issue.


45 posted on 07/09/2012 10:20:33 AM PDT by DesertRhino (perI was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Close, but the Miami Vice rig had thinner straps. Galco calls it the Maimi Classic.


46 posted on 07/09/2012 10:21:30 AM PDT by Doctor 2Brains (If the government were Paris Hilton, it could not score a free drink in a bar full of lonely sailors)
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To: Doctor 2Brains
Close, but the Miami Vice rig had thinner straps. Galco calls it the Maimi Classic.

But JACKASS rig is more to the point !

47 posted on 07/09/2012 10:25:14 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: DesertRhino
Anyone who shoots both much will experience many more stoppages with a semi auto than with a revolver

A poorly maintained revolver
will malfunction as soon
as a poorly maintained pistol.

48 posted on 07/09/2012 10:28:12 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: pgyanke

If it was a waist worn holster,,, body position will be explained by the phenomenon known as “freak dancing”.


49 posted on 07/09/2012 10:28:46 AM PDT by DesertRhino (perI was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

“A poorly maintained revolver
will malfunction as soon
as a poorly maintained pistol. “

True. Now lets talk about brand new shiny clean ones, right out of the box. And lets talk about ammo choices in a shiny clean revolver. Revolvers do have issues. But the fact remains. A person can buy a revolver, and any box of proper caliber ammo in the store, and achieve a level of reliability that cannot be done with a semi. Most semi autos have a break in period, and a preferred ammo. Many have an ammo that it simply doesnt like.


50 posted on 07/09/2012 10:38:26 AM PDT by DesertRhino (perI was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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