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Here's my solution to the Penn State fiasco...

Posted on 07/17/2012 10:11:38 AM PDT by mamelukesabre

Edited on 07/17/2012 10:37:32 AM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

No more sports *PERIOD* for the entire university for 50 years!

Seriously. Shut it all down. I'm sick of this BS. I don't even care who is to blame anymore. Paterno, Sandusky, Larry, curley, or moe...I really don't give a (expletive deleted). Fire all current staff and shut it down...from the very tipity top all the way down to the towel boy and the cheerleading squad. I don't give a damn if the problem is only in the football program either. Shut down every goddam sport at Penn state. Bulldoze the sporting complex and plow up the fields. All of it.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education
KEYWORDS: joepa; pennstate; sandusky; sports; vanity
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To: mamelukesabre

You got it, pal. Since when are universities about sports?


51 posted on 07/17/2012 11:37:48 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: dfwgator

There is one thing that Bowden, Paterno & Robinson have in common. For different reasons none of them was really in control of their football program for the last several years of their tenures at their schools. It is a potentially dangerous situation as the PSU scandal shows. I’m not one for creating regulations, but universities ought to consider mandatory retirement ages in their coaching contracts. The spectacle of the PSU trustees attempting to get Paterno to retire over the last 10 or so years was just pathetic. It was like watching me go up against Mike Tyson in his prime. Paterno just toyed with them.


52 posted on 07/17/2012 11:37:51 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: A-B-O

Only the homosexual enabling, molesting, youth stealing ones.


53 posted on 07/17/2012 11:39:36 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: mamelukesabre

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, it seems to me that the “facts” are certainly not all in. In an affair as serious, and as sordid, as this, I believe we need to be careful about passing judgment until everyone’s story has been told.

We know some of the testimony from the Grand Jury, we know the testimony that was presented during the Sandusky trial, we now have the Freeh report, although I doubt many have actually read it. If you do read the Freeh report, it is quite curious that he never talked with any of the principals in the case. And how independent can it be, being it was paid for by the PSU Trustees.

We still do not know the particulars of the Curley and Schulz perjury charges, nor their defense to them. We really don’t, as of yet, have any idea of what verbal communications there may have been. We may never know.

We all know how much the MSM gets the facts wrong; if there is eventually proved to be a cover-up the individuals and the university should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But trying them in the court of public opinion is as wrong in this case as it is in the Zimmerman case, or countless others.

The whole basis of our justice systems is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law. I prefer to wait until the justice system performs its function before passing judgment.


54 posted on 07/17/2012 11:41:51 AM PDT by fteuph
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To: A-B-O
So they can transfer to other schools, and the better athletes will bump all the other schools athletes from playing time or whataever. Yea, that’s logical? Why don’t we just blow up every Catholic Church in the country after we’re done razing the Penn State campus

Huh? Transfers happen all the time. They should be allowed to transfer, as they have been able to throughout history.

55 posted on 07/17/2012 11:43:44 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: Tallguy

The red flag was that Paterno wanted to stay, I think he knew that if he left, the secret was going to come out. I wonder if behind the scenes the deal was made to only let the story out once Paterno passed Robinson.


56 posted on 07/17/2012 11:44:24 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: rbg81

I went to PSU for 3 years (’79 thru ‘81), and went to 2 or 3 football games a year until about 2000. It was evident that the university was totally in the sway of the PC police. I couldn’t stomach it any longer and stopped going. My wife was a PSU grad as were most of our friends. All good little PSU-bots.

Aside: One thing that really bothered me. As the PSU football program began to slide from national prominence, the worship of the ‘grandfatherly’ (sarcasm) Paterno among the undergrads seemed to heighten. It creeped me out. But then it was the only ‘product’ that PSU had to sell in the waning years of Paterno’s stewardship of the program.


57 posted on 07/17/2012 11:46:10 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: A-B-O

This Louis Freeh: (from the NY Times of all places)

Freeh Was Spared Censure For Handling of Ruby Ridge
By DAVID JOHNSTON
Published: August 06, 2001

An internal Justice Department inquiry recommended that Louis J. Freeh, the former F.B.I. director, and three other bureau officials be censured for managerial failures during follow-up investigations of the deadly standoff at Ruby Ridge in Idaho in 1992, but Justice Department officials rejected any disciplinary action, government lawyers said today.

The recommendation to reprimand Mr. Freeh with a letter of censure, the mildest form of administrative punishment at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, was turned down in early January by Stephen R. Colgate, at the time the Justice Department’s chief administrative officer responsible for reviewing disciplinary actions.

Typically, letters of censure issued to F.B.I. agents are not publicly disclosed but are inserted into their personnel files.

Mr. Colgate, who has since left the government, said in an interview that he had taken no action because he did not believe it was justified. He said two other senior officials who reviewed the matter agreed with his position while one official disagreed. The disciplinary recommendation involving Mr. Freeh was first reported today by The Washington Post.

But some around here will take as Gospel his conclusions and assumptions as aided and abetted by the lamestream media.

ANd PSU WAS conservative until Spanier arrived on the scene - I know, I was there.


58 posted on 07/17/2012 11:46:34 AM PDT by PA BOOKENDS
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To: A-B-O
I suppose you support bulldozing every catholic church in the country as well right?

Talk about overreacting--only a few percentage of the priest did harmful things. So, no you don't shut all churches down. Same here, shut the football program down some way for some time. All football revenues for the next 5 years goes to the victims. No bowl games & no scollies. I dislike very much punishing players who had nothing to do with this but it does make new recruits look at the ramifications of attending places with shady practices.

59 posted on 07/17/2012 11:49:33 AM PDT by Digger (If RINO is your selection then failure is your election)
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To: A-B-O
I suppose you support bulldozing every catholic church in the country as well right?

Good ideer, you start! After you're done, we'll follow your iron logic and bulldoze every university in the country!

60 posted on 07/17/2012 11:52:56 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: mamelukesabre

Amazing. There are pederast apologists and enablers even here.


61 posted on 07/17/2012 11:53:49 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: mamelukesabre

yea... it’s the sports that were the issue

of course, allowing homos to be in schools isn’t a problem at all... nah...


62 posted on 07/17/2012 11:53:49 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: dfwgator
I wonder if behind the scenes the deal was made to only let the story out once Paterno passed Robinson.

Doubt it. Spanier and a group of the trustees wanted Paterno out. If it had been anything other than a pedophilia -- homosexual pedophilia -- case, then Spanier would certainly have pulled the trigger on Paterno by leaking it to the Press. But Spanier was definitely in the sway of the LGBT crowd and so he, Curley & Shultze conspired to bury this deeply and for all time. It was not their intention to let this out, ever.

63 posted on 07/17/2012 11:54:36 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: justice14
Isn’t PSU the place where those “scientists” were caught lying about global warming?

Yes, and that goes to the heart of the the university. Can't lay that one at the feet of the football program. At least PSU has a chance to do something about cleaning up the football program. Given their inaction with regard to Michael Mann and his goofy AGW theories, I'm not optimistic.

64 posted on 07/17/2012 11:58:54 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: A-B-O

you assume the other school will take them.

Essentially you will have a whole slew of scholarshipped athleates in all sports and schools can pick the best. This is competition, not some feeeeling BS.

Shut PSU sports down. period.


65 posted on 07/17/2012 12:02:18 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: mamelukesabre

“No more sports *PERIOD* for the entire university for 50 years! “

This is a stupid idea.

First, no other sport had a connection to Mr. Sandusky.
Second, no other coach that I know of, no student athletes and no current students had any connection to what happened.
Finally, regardless of what happened with 3 or 4 people, it’s a great school that is more than football.


66 posted on 07/17/2012 12:05:10 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: mamelukesabre
Burn down Beaver Stadium and the Locker Room.
67 posted on 07/17/2012 12:05:37 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
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To: A-B-O

Sandusky, is that you?


68 posted on 07/17/2012 12:08:58 PM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: A-B-O
Some will be punished that did not know or do anything but that goes with the program. For instance: here on Maui a bunch of drunen thugs were going down to our beach parks and acting rowdy and leaving beer cans all over and using bad language in front of a bunch of youngsters so the State and County passed a law now where no one can take alcohol to the beach parks now. I never did any of the above but still the law includes me. Not fair? Maybe but it stopped the hoodlums from coming down to our beaches.
69 posted on 07/17/2012 12:14:53 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: A-B-O
Some will be punished that did not know or do anything but that goes with the program. For instance: here on Maui a bunch of drunen thugs were going down to our beach parks and acting rowdy and leaving beer cans all over and using bad language in front of a bunch of youngsters so the State and County passed a law now where no one can take alcohol to the beach parks now. I never did any of the above but still the law includes me. Not fair? Maybe but it stopped the hoodlums from coming down to our beaches.
70 posted on 07/17/2012 12:16:15 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: longtermmemmory
The students can transfer. Should keep their scholarships regardless.

P S U is not paying a high enough price.

I think we need to draw a breath and realize that PSU is going to play football this year unless the NCAA acts very quickly. The season is only about 4 - 5 weeks away.

The PSU trustees are a bunch of motley fools, dancing furiuously to avoid making a hard decsion. So don't expect PSU to say that they aren't playing the 2012 season.

Maybe the best we can expect is some sort of announcement during the season that they won't play the 2013 season (and maybe beyond that). This way the scholarship athletes can plan their transfers. I think that transfers should be open to all sports that may be under threat of cancellation as a result of revenue shortfalls.

71 posted on 07/17/2012 12:20:28 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: PA BOOKENDS

Yep.. That Louis Freeh.

A leftist hack, hired by a leftist Board of Trustees, comes to a conclusion based on virtually no new-evidence to destroy a conservative Republican’s reputation, and the leftist media runs with it and conservatives on Free Republic swallow everything they are being told by these liberals: hook, line, and sinker.

It’s fascinating and disappointing.


72 posted on 07/17/2012 12:21:51 PM PDT by A-B-O
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To: Tallguy

fine effective at the end of the 2012 season no sports OF ANY KIND for 40 years. PERIOD.


73 posted on 07/17/2012 12:33:15 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: fish hawk

No, if we are comparing similar scenarios, the State would have decided that banning alcohol on beach wasn’t enough so they brought back prohibition.

The punishment of banning sports does not fit the crime. If a retired PSU Engineer professor was accused of this crime, and the people above him failed to do all they could in reporting him, should we shut down the entire Engineering department at Penn State (one of the best in the country)?

We have criminal procedures in this country for dealing with people who committ crimes. Those wheels are in motion. It’s apparently not enough for the left-wing media (and some around here) who are playing a game of “Who can be more outraged at Penn State?” regardless of the facts at hand.


74 posted on 07/17/2012 12:40:01 PM PDT by A-B-O
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To: Tallguy

While it may make some of you FEEL good to think about destroying the PSU Campus, and shutting down sports programs forever, I think we all know that that is not going to happen. The NCAA or the Big Ten may impose some sanctions, that remains to be seen.

What, however, is not going to change is the presence of perversions on our college campuses, and in all of society. What needs to be done in response to this, in all of society’s institutions, is to make sure that stringent systems, controls, and oversights are in effect to prevent this from happening again.

Hopefully, that is the one positive thing that can happen here, the heightened assurance that no-one is hurt again by this monstrous evil, on our campuses, in our churches, in our schools, and other institutions.


75 posted on 07/17/2012 12:45:44 PM PDT by fteuph
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To: fteuph
While it may make some of you FEEL good to think about destroying the PSU Campus, and shutting down sports programs forever, I think we all know that that is not going to happen.

It wouldn't be "Just" to shut down the entire sports program, but the University needs to be penalized because their senior decision-makers failed to take proper action in the interests of the victims as well as their own university. Frankly, if the Big Ten believes all that touchy-feely stuff that they put in their half-time PSA's they should be the ones sanctioning PSU. Because the Big Ten 'claims' that it is more than an athletic conference -- that it is rather an association of land-grant universities that stress academics and morality. Well, let's see if they act in defense of the other 11 universities by disassociating themselves from PSU for a period of time. I do think that would be just.

I say this in recognition that once again the "Too Big To Fail" argument lurkes unstated in the background. And it ticks me off.

76 posted on 07/17/2012 1:07:40 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: Tallguy

No disagreement there.


77 posted on 07/17/2012 1:17:25 PM PDT by fteuph
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To: mamelukesabre

You forgot to sow the fields with salt after you plowed em up.


78 posted on 07/17/2012 1:25:15 PM PDT by Licensed-To-Carry (Hey Obama! All you have done is awaken a sleeping giant and filled us with a terrible resolve!!)
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To: Licensed-To-Carry

LOL


79 posted on 07/17/2012 1:44:39 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Licensed-To-Carry

In this case, sow the fields with salt-peter!


80 posted on 07/17/2012 1:45:22 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: mamelukesabre

essentially:

Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse


81 posted on 07/17/2012 1:50:17 PM PDT by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: A-B-O

answer this question honestly please: do you or did you ever have any ties with Penn State. I ask as you are an avid defender of it. After reading your posts, it is a valid question.


82 posted on 07/17/2012 1:54:27 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Sorry, can't agree.

What I would like to see come out of this is the realization that all the high-flown talk about "leadership" and "character" in big time college sports is 100%, grade A, industrial strength bulls--t.

It's all about the money. Nothing more than that.

Everybody praised Paterno as the epitome of a leader and a builder of character, but it turns out his own character was a sick joke.

83 posted on 07/17/2012 3:00:17 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
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To: Notary Sojac

eggs effing zackly


84 posted on 07/17/2012 3:07:45 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: A-B-O
Did Paterno not do as much as he could here? Of course not, he could have done more. Was there a systemic coverup orchestrated by Joe Paterno to protect the University from bad press? Absolutely zero evidence to support such nonsense.

Paterno didn't call the cops on a homosexual child rapist. That's a coverup. I don't need a report from anybody to tell me that.
85 posted on 07/17/2012 4:00:46 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: fteuph; A-B-O; Mrs. Don-o

Very well said.

I think there’s more to this latest hot topic than is being reported. I haven’t seen anything about the investigation into Second Mile or BOT or government officials. The media made this about Paterno and about Penn State.

The media made Paterno a legend and they then tore him down. The BOT and Admin (Spanier) were trying to get rid of him since the 90s. He became their scapegoat in this horrific, yet not surprising, case.

As an alum, I never got the “worship” (nor do I ever understand worship of any human being) but I did/do think he was an excellent coach and one of the good guys. I don’t think many people realize just how disliked he was by the Admin, BOT,some profs due to his conservative views and how he tried to make the football program one that incorporated academics, athleticism, and morality/responsibility.

I think his worshippers and his detractors share a common ground. I want no part of either.

Penn State was primarily a conservative leaning college (students/alums/profs, etc.). It was changing in the 80s when I attended but the liberalism wasn’t as prevalent. It was starting that’s for sure because I saw it myself during the time I attended. When Spanier was hired as President in the 90s, his agenda was clear to any who bothered to see. To those who aren’t aware of Graham Spanier, google him. He set out to change the Penn State University to fit his perverted agenda and the agenda of the extreme liberals. My husband and I stopped donating and stopped being members of the Alumni Association. My little tantrum. Then, we decided to try to fight it and rejoined the Alumni Association.

As Mrs. dono stated either here or on another thread pertaining to this topic, it’s not a Penn State problem. It’s a PC problem on our University campuses. It’s a PC liberalism problem in the extreme on our college campuses, schools, churches, entertainment outlets, and most importantly our families. People, in real life not anonymously on the internet, are afraid to speak up to fight this PC mentality.

So for all those who hated Paterno prior to this, and all those who hated sports or college sports,or college in general, I hope you eventually see this isn’t about Paterno or Penn State or college sports or sports or college. It’s about the extreme liberal agenda, protected by PC and the laws enacted, that’s killing our schools and our family structure/society.

Penn State won’t be shut down, none of the campuses (24 in all I think) will be bulldozed, and I seriously doubt the football program or any of the sports programs will be shut down. Nor should they be, imo.

As for me, I will continue being a proud Alum of Penn State for all the reasons I enjoyed attending the school.


86 posted on 07/17/2012 4:10:52 PM PDT by Twink
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To: fteuph; mamelukesabre
If you do read the Freeh report, it is quite curious that he never talked with any of the principals in the case.

Why do you find that curious?

Tim Curley and Gary Schultz were under indictment; there's no way their attorney would have let Louis Freeh interview them. I know Wick Sollers; there's no way he (and the rest of his colleagues at King & Spalding) would have let Louis Freeh interview Joe Paterno during the brief period that Paterno was alive after Freeh was appointed. Graham Spanier? Same thing. Penn State wasn't even giving Spanier access to the emails Free was reviewing; Spanier's attorneys weren't going to let Freeh interview him.

But Freeh (and by that term I include his associates) interviewed hundreds of others and reviewed over a million documents, including emails, memos, and handwritten notes.

I went into this not trusting Freeh, given his role in Ruby Ridge, Waco, TWA 800, the Centennial Olympic Park Bombing, and so on. However, he had the decency to request that Janet Reno appoint a special investigator on Chinese political contributions to political campaigns during the Clinton reelection.

There are no missing verbal communications, or explanations, to make up for the written communications among Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier. Freeh knows they are going to become public during the prosecutions of Curley and Schultz, and will become part of grand jury proceedings against Spanier and others at Penn State.

You're living on a dream if you think the Freeh report - added to what we already knew - was anything but a nail in the coffin for Curley, Schultz, Spanier, and Paterno.

87 posted on 07/17/2012 4:42:10 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster

They are all scum.

Some here on FR are hesitant because the head coach was a republican and successful?? those FR turds can meet me in the dark at a truckstop in the desert southwest and explain to me that asinine position. The evil imp paterno is in hell regardless off his political contributions. The entire establishment should be burnt down and pissed on and all those involved rounded up and spit on...and worse.

I’m not kidding.

I want the cesspool in penn state shut down and lots of people imprisoned. Im talking nazi war trial kinda shit. Burn the sumbitches at the steak.


88 posted on 07/17/2012 5:42:36 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Twink

well at least we know your biases.


89 posted on 07/17/2012 5:46:05 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: mamelukesabre

Wow. Such an intelligent, informed, witty response. RME
There’s a reason I didn’t address my comment to you, lol. But, you keep ranting and raving. Don’t let the real issue and rational discussion of such interfere with your keyboard warrior bravado.


90 posted on 07/17/2012 6:11:15 PM PDT by Twink
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To: Twink

I hope you eventually see this isn’t about Paterno or Penn State...

...I see, I guess...PSU defensive coordinator Sandusky fondling boys, and PSU coach Paterno, PSU prexy Spanier, PSU Ath. Dir. Curley, and PSU veep Schultz deciding to keep it in house, thus contravening moral and social responsibility...I guess I can see how this wasn’t about Penn St., alright...


91 posted on 07/17/2012 7:14:04 PM PDT by IrishBrigade
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To: Twink

Actually it was. It put you in your place efficiently.


92 posted on 07/17/2012 7:36:43 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Scoutmaster

“There are no missing verbal communications, or explanations, to make up for the written communications among Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier. Freeh knows they are going to become public during the prosecutions of Curley and Schultz, and will become part of grand jury proceedings against Spanier and others at Penn State.”

I absolutely agree with most of your post. But there is no way to know what may still be missing. My point is only that the full story is not yet known, yet many are jumping to conclusions.

And I still fail to see how a “Final Report” can be issued without interviews of the principals. Interviews of others are generally hearsay. I realize that interviews are not possible now; perhaps a “Preliminary Report” would have been better? My belief is that there is still a “cover-up” here - the Freeh report was issued in the hopes of deflecting further investigation.

I think (again only a theory) that this whole scandal goes much deeper than many imagine, perhaps as far as some high-ranking Government officials. There are too many unanswered question stretching all the way back to the 1998 allegations which were unexplainably dropped.


93 posted on 07/18/2012 4:44:54 AM PDT by fteuph
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To: Twink
The media made Paterno a legend and they then tore him down. The BOT and Admin (Spanier) were trying to get rid of him since the 90s. He became their scapegoat in this horrific, yet not surprising, case.

As an alum, I never got the “worship” (nor do I ever understand worship of any human being) but I did/do think he was an excellent coach and one of the good guys.


My definition of a good guy is somebody who, after learning of a homosexual pedophile raping little boys, calls the cops.

My definition of a good guy does not include letting a homosexual pedophile rapist walk around my place of business for many years after he was caught raping a little boy and pretending like everything is fine.

Your definition of what constitutes a "good guy" and mine clearly differ.
94 posted on 07/18/2012 4:22:31 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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