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Our attitude to violence is beyond a joke as new Batman film, The Dark Knight, shows
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 26 Jul 2008 | Jenny McCartney

Posted on 07/20/2012 9:01:52 AM PDT by I still care

If I were 10 years old, would I be badgering my parents to take me to see the new Batman film, The Dark Knight?

You bet I would. It's the latest and biggest release in the superhero genre, which children instantly understand as a direct appeal to their special interests.

It's also touched with the alluring suggestion of forbidden fruit: the maniacal, deranged face of The Joker, grippingly played by the late Heath Ledger, leers from posters all over town.

If I were the parent who relented and took a 10-year-old child to see The Dark Knight, would I be sorry? Once again, you bet I would.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Society; TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: culture; darkknight; darkknightviolence; darknightviolence; movies; murder; shooting; violence
This is a several year old article Drudge linked to, about what I consider the real cause of the shootings in CO - the societal violence that we culture here. It's not the guns; it's the depravity. Our founding fathers understood this so well - we have failed so much in losing this vision. I am reminded of the last lines in the Va Declaration of Rights:

XV "That no free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."

As we cast aside the bonds that tie us to morality and temperence, the perceived need grows within society to have government control us. Moving forward, we move backwards to tyranny. The sick thing is, people think the guns are the problem - it's the mind and heart that has been cultured by the wanton left.

1 posted on 07/20/2012 9:01:55 AM PDT by I still care
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To: I still care

Oh, by the way, Drudge linked to this on his front page. That is where I found it.


2 posted on 07/20/2012 9:02:57 AM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: I still care

A six year old is reportedly dead and a three-month-old injured at the theater, at 12:30 AM. What is the matter with parents these days? Children should be home in bed instead of listening to special effects blow up cities at that hour.


3 posted on 07/20/2012 9:11:12 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: txrefugee
What is the matter with parents these days?

So it's the parents' fault that these kids were killed and wounded?

My God...the kids' bodies aren't even cold yet, but so many FReepers can't WAIT to pass judgment on people they don't know.

4 posted on 07/20/2012 9:13:27 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: I still care

War has been glorified as honorable. Look at war movies from the last 10 years. They glorify the explosions and the gunfire. Men get shot and just spin through the air. Bearded, foreign-speaking people shoot up crowds, blow up malls, etc. We watch and cheer on the protagonists.

The American psyche hasn’t been tried by the endless streams of bodies coming from foreign shores since Vietnam. The American government has consistently tried to keep a tight lid on the violence perpetrated overseas. News is sterilized. Things like the Berg beheading or videos of women being stoned to death by Islamists are shuffled off to the deepest corners of the Internet. To the American people, war is what we see in the theaters.

Movies like Saving Private Ryan showed the absolute cost of war. Bodies were blowing up on Omaha beach. Men walked around without arms or tried to crawl from the tides without legs. The intestines of soldiers spilled from their bellies. When a soldier was killed, it wasn’t this dramatic spinning through the air BS. It was, like the book “The Things They Carried” by Tim O’Brien, “Boom! Down.” No final dramatic gasping words. No tearful goodbyes. Just a bullet through the head or the heart and they collapsed like a sack of wet laundry.

I’m not going to be quick to blame Hollywood, but they share a portion of the burden for glorifying the violence. They share a portion of the depravity with movies like “Machete” or “Saw” or “Final Destination” probing the deepest depths of morbid curiosity. It used to be that the worst someone would see in their lives was the bloodstained asphalt near a fatal car crash while driving home from work or the mall. Now even the most depraved scenes can be found in movies and online.

We, as a culture, have strayed from God. We’ve strayed from our roots. We’ve strayed into acceptance of homosexuality, depraved indifference to violence, and replacement of God with big-G Government.

This incident in Aurora is not unique insomuch as it’s happened before and will happen again. There’s no way to stop every man or woman with a bloodlust from falling into depression or psychosis and deciding to shoot up a movie theater or a mall or a school. Sadly, I think it’s bound to happen more as time goes on, and not because of the availability of guns. This could’ve happened with a baseball bat, a nail gun, a chainsaw, a law mower, an automobile.

We need to correct the way we think and how we portray life around us. Violence shouldn’t be glorified, it should be shown for what it is: not spinning through the air but “boom, down.”


5 posted on 07/20/2012 9:17:13 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia
"...Things like the Berg beheading or videos of women being stoned to death by Islamists are shuffled off to the deepest corners of the Internet..." But why if the culture seeks sensational violence? It is because those scenes could still influence political opinions. Soldiers who are veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan often volunteer for further deployments and have no illusions about what a bullet could do to their jaw, femur, genitalia, or kidney. Such soldiers are not the product of a violent culture but of a professional military heritage. Evil violence exists and at times the goods guys have to bring violence upon others too. 38th Cavalry, Kandahar Prov. Afghanistan
6 posted on 07/20/2012 9:36:17 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American that a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Future Snake Eater

It’s summer vacation, so it’s not a school night. I’m sure it was a special treat to get to see the new movie on its first showing. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

But, that said, I’m not sure I would want to expose a child to the kind of weirdos who are *normally* out at midnight in a city.


7 posted on 07/20/2012 9:39:56 AM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: PLMerite

I’ve been to midnight showings before. It’s usually a lot more fun than a regular showing since the big fans are all there. I imagine the parents really wanted to see the movie, and figured the little kids would just sleep anyway.

Not a big deal, and certainly not worth accusing the parents of being accessories to their own children’s murder.


8 posted on 07/20/2012 9:42:36 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: I still care

People are going to over-analyze this as they always do. The bottom line is, there is bad seed, and there is nothing you can do to change that fact.


9 posted on 07/20/2012 9:45:51 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Monterrosa-24

But the point here is that there ARE heroes out there who willingly put themselves in harm’s way to protect those us who prefer peace. I would gladly take up arms for my countrymen if asked, and I will stand behind those countrymen with my heart and my wallet because they ensure that I will wake up the next morning.


10 posted on 07/20/2012 9:50:30 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: I still care

The exact same hollywierd people who claim violence in films/TV do not cause violence in society because they have no effect on people will also turn around and sell ads to advertisers because then people will buy their product.

So somehow they can magically create a demand in ones mind for a product but not inspire violence in that same mind. AMAZING.

It always amazed me that you can show, during the family hour, knifing, shooting, dismemberment, body burning, all kinds of violence against other humans but don’t you dare show a boob or a tallywacker. Oh, the humanity if someone sees a natural creation of GOD but blood and guts are OK. AMAZING!


11 posted on 07/20/2012 9:55:24 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: txrefugee

A few years back, my boyfriend went to see The Hills Have Eyes 2. In front of him was a family, with 5 kids, the youngest looked about 4 or so, he thought the oldest was no older than 12. When I saw Doom, the guy behind me had 2 kids with him, an infant and a pre schooler. Meanwhile I wouldn’t let my son watch anything without me seeing it first until recently (he is 17). I would question the wisdom in letting a 6 yr old see this movie without viewing it myself first


12 posted on 07/20/2012 9:59:27 AM PDT by chae (I was anti-Obama before it was cool)
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To: rarestia

Reading “Thermopylae” right now. What a celebration of violence!

Wait, no - it was not. It was a celebration of civic virtue and those willing to give their last full measure to stand up to tyranny in order to preserve freedom.

War is rarely the answer - but when it is - it is the ONLY answer.

There is a reason why people for centuries have celebrated the 300 Spartans. I suggest you learn it.


13 posted on 07/20/2012 10:00:35 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Future Snake Eater

Neither of the posters said the parents were responsible for the childrens’ injuries or murder.
However, I have to wonder at the idea of taking such small children to that sort of movie myself or having them out at that hour. You are free to disagree, but having raised 3 boys I do have some experience. Mostly it is laziness and cheapness. But kids require one to grow up and think of someone other than yourself. Our culture does not prize that.
No, I feel terrible for the parents, and they are not to blame for the violence that happened to their children. However, I would always counsel parents not to take small children to movies like this or to have them out in the middle of the night when they should be home in bed. Sometimes being a parent means making hard choices, even not getting to see a movie they “really wanted to see”.


14 posted on 07/20/2012 10:00:35 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: brytlea

I don’t disagree with you, but there seems to be just as much derision being directed at these parents as the murderer.

In the end, this decision isn’t a big deal. Yes, there are more responsible ways of going about it, but that doesn’t drive some notion of culpability on their behalf. They just went to a movie.


15 posted on 07/20/2012 10:07:41 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: allmendream

Not sure how to take your post, but I will say this:

I’m not dismissing works of literature or art that glorify times in history when violent protest led to peace. America’s history is replete with examples of this.

What I’m discussing here is the rampant glorification of violence for the sake of violence. Tell me what cultural or civil value there is in the “Saw” movies or the “Final Destination” movies? They’re entertaining you say? That’s a depraved idea of entertainment.

I watched the Berg beheading. It changed who I was as a person. I watched the first “Final Destination” movie. It changed what I questioned as entertainment. When a movie is made to tell a story about a time in history when war led to peace, I’ll watch it. When a movie is made to tell a story about depravity and espouses violence for shock value, that’s not a movie I’d watch nor consider entertainment. It only serves to deaden the nerves, IMO. The more you watch, the more immune.

But as soon as a violent event happens, as soon as war comes to your shore or your neighborhood, as soon as you see a neighbor or a friend or a family member maimed by some madman, your whole world changes, your whole world view changes. Is that entertainment? No. But watching it happen to someone on a big screen is? I don’t get that mentality.


16 posted on 07/20/2012 10:10:47 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Future Snake Eater

I’ll date myself with this, but I used to go see Kentucky Fried Movie, Wizards, and The Rocky Horror Picture Show at the Midnight Madness at the local multiplex.

I can also attest, after working many years on the late shifts, that there are a lot of really weird, unsavory types who seem to come out only at night to shop or whatever, in addition to the regular criminal and gang banger types.


17 posted on 07/20/2012 10:21:25 AM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: PLMerite

Yeah, but you’re talking about those weird cult hits. I went to see the “Star Wars” prequels (for some reason) at the midnight showings. Those were just nerds looking to watch a (supposedly) fun movie. Not a thing threatening about such an event.

I certainly wouldn’t bring a kid to a “Rocky Horror Picture Show” midnight showing. That’s a bit of a recipe for insanity there that kids don’t need to see.


18 posted on 07/20/2012 10:24:05 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Future Snake Eater
So it's the parents' fault that these kids were killed and wounded?

My God...the kids' bodies aren't even cold yet, but so many FReepers can't WAIT to pass judgment on people they don't know.

When I was in the 3rd grade my dad took me to see the movie “Patton” when it opened. Some here might say that that sort of movie was inappropriate for a kid that age but my dad, a WWII vet talked with me before the movie and with me afterward – he thought that while rather graphic in its depiction of war and the movie’s strong language, he felt it was important for me to see in its historical context – and it was a great bonding for me and my dad and a good educational experience.

I have a lot of friends and family members who are big sci-fi fans. I recall my niece and her husband taking their then 7 year old son to see a midnight opening showing of one of the Star Wars movies.

While I might not take an infant or toddler or allow my very young teenager to go to a midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises, I’m not going to pass judgment on them either.

The issue is not about the people who were in the theater to see a movie, to have a nice evening out; the real issue is with the psycho, whatever his motivations were, to plan and open fire on innocent people in a crowded movie theater.

19 posted on 07/20/2012 10:32:42 AM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: Future Snake Eater

Yes, it’s two different things, and at this time it’s not the issue. The crazy shooter is the issue. I think maybe people are so horrified when these things happen that they start just looking at everything and trying to find reasons (as if we can ever really find them).

Of course, I think the whole way kids are raised these days is a big deal, but that’s a thread for another time. Today, prayers for everyone. I have a grandson who is 3 months old, I cannot imagine losing him this way. What grief they must feel. God bless them.


20 posted on 07/20/2012 10:35:11 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: rarestia

I wouldn’t know the entertainment value of any of those movies, as I haven’t and wouldn’t watch them. But I have seen the latest two “Batman” movies.

And as to “Batman” - he clearly is not out to do violence for the sake of violence - and “Batman” is not idolized for committing violence - but in putting his life on the line to protect the citizens of “Gotham”. Batman does not intentionally kill, and he does not use a gun.

Why is a hero heroic? Because he is willing to meet violence with violence with a disregard for his own safety and comfort - not for self serving goals - but to defend things larger than the self.

In the case of “Batman”, the goal of not having young boys have to watch their parents gunned down in the street after a petty robbery.

Batman is a movie about heroism - not violence.

That may not fit well into your world where violence is a “protest” that leads to peace - but there are reasons why the hero is idolized - and it is NOT violence for the sake of violence.


21 posted on 07/20/2012 10:36:31 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: PLMerite

So what? Your child needs to learn how to navigate the world some day—sickos included. Might as well start them off while they’re young. Think how better prepared they will be once they get older (if, of course, they get the chance).


22 posted on 07/20/2012 10:36:42 AM PDT by MarDav
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To: allmendream

Sorry, let me clarify, I don’t explicitly agree with the author of this thread’s referenced article. I agree that Batman, like other superhero/comic book movies, is meant to be entertainment in the way it was in the comic book.

I think the opening part of the title is correct, though: Our attitude to violence is beyond a joke. This movie is the wrong canard, but there are other examples, as I’ve illustrated, that validate his claim.


23 posted on 07/20/2012 10:44:26 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia
Violence for the sake of violence, like gladiatorial games in Rome, will always lack the long term appeal of actual heroism.

While such gore fest debauchery may have an appeal to the mentally lazy and debauched - it will always lack appeal to the high minded.

The mass appeal of “Saw” and such garbage is a symptom of the disease, not its cause.

In a society more familiar with actual heroism such a movie would lack popular appeal. While churchlady busybodies may condemn ANY movie with violence - I think a good rousing violent story of heroism is a COUNTER to such garbage - not a ‘gateway’ or sideline of such.

24 posted on 07/20/2012 11:01:54 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream

Agreed.

Violence is necessary to remind us that it should be reserved for extreme circumstances. The gore-fest debauchery, as you explain it, seems to be de rigeur in today’s Hollywood. Comic action movies (i.e. Batman, Spiderman, Transformers), I would consider entertaining, but when you have millions of teens sneaking into movies like Saw, Hostel, Final Destination, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, et al., you have millions of young minds seeking to play out these morbid fantasies as a proxy for their understanding of the violent human condition.

This kid was obviously a psycho. Whether or not he got his ideas from the movies remains to be seen, but I agree, it’s not likely.


25 posted on 07/20/2012 11:07:18 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: I still care
"If I were the parent who relented and took a 10-year-old child to see The Dark Knight, would I be sorry?

You'd be bat sh!t crazy.

26 posted on 07/20/2012 11:18:07 AM PDT by ex-snook (without forgiveness there is no Christianity)
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To: txrefugee

A six year old is reportedly dead and a three-month-old injured at the theater, at 12:30 AM. What is the matter with parents these days? Children should be home in bed instead of listening to special effects blow up cities at that hour.

<><><><>

That’s your takeaway from this story? Really?


27 posted on 07/20/2012 11:38:50 AM PDT by dmz
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To: rarestia

Art imitates life.


28 posted on 07/20/2012 11:50:38 AM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: txrefugee

When my sons were young, they did not do sex and violence in entertainment.

When they were teens, I would not allow rap music in the house and we only had one TV and did not have cable. They had to buy a lot of their own stuff, so that meant they had to work and get good grades for sports so did not have time mess around with dark entertainment media much.


29 posted on 07/20/2012 11:53:37 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Future Snake Eater

That’s a huge jump.

Txrefugee was just making the point that a 6 year old should not be at a midnight screening of a violent movie.


30 posted on 07/20/2012 11:55:43 AM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: I still care

People over analyze things. There’s 311 million people in this country, some of them are bound to be nutters. If this really was a societal ill these types of incidents would happen weekly. They don’t.


31 posted on 07/20/2012 12:00:28 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Wurlitzer

The only part of advertising we know for sure actually sells products is product awareness. They let you know about stuff you might want to buy, they don’t make you buy anything. Everybody knows about violence. There’s no magic in the creation of demand, it’s just about product awareness.

They don’t actually show that stuff during the family hour. They imply it often, but they don’t actually show it. Of course most good movie directors will tell you implication gets a message across better than showing something. Which creates an interesting dichotomy when trying to “protect” kids from images, we don’t want to show them these things, but not showing them implants them deeper in their heads.


32 posted on 07/20/2012 12:07:34 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: I still care

Not a huge jump at all. Have you seen how many nannies are clucking over such a non-event? Either they miss the forest for the trees, or they think the parents are at least partially responsible for the murders of their kids. Whichever one it is, they need to back off and understand what’s REALLY important in this story.


33 posted on 07/20/2012 12:10:21 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: SaraJohnson

My parents raised me the same way. I did listen to Christian rap music though (Yes, there is such a thing).


34 posted on 07/20/2012 12:17:08 PM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: discostu
Boy where to start:

First the absolute lie:

"They don’t actually show that stuff during the family hour. "

Can't speak to what you are watching but thanks to 200+ channels on Cable, it is sure available 24/7 on Time Warner.

" There’s no magic in the creation of demand, it’s just about product awareness."

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT! No intention at all of the media using millions of dollars of commercials to get people to buy stuff. I'd like to see you sell ads using this logic.

100% fact is violence is allowed almost 24/7 while the occasional exposure of God's creation can expose a network to millions in fines.

This is but one part in the communist manifesto to destroy the fabric of the USA. That is not hype for anyone who actually read the communist manifesto.

35 posted on 07/20/2012 12:26:18 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: Wurlitzer

Cable is a different matter, the “family hour” is an FCC standard that applies to broadcast TV and and radio, since you don’t show things on radio that’s out for your statement.

I didn’t say there wasn’t intention, I said there wasn’t magic. Of course the big punchline is other than pure product awareness nobody actually knows if commercials work. The ongoing joke of people in the advertising business is that the only thing you know for sure your ad sells is other ads... by your competitors.

Exposure of God’s creation doesn’t expose anybody to fines. Now taking the Lord’s name in vain on broadcast is another matter. But religious programming is perfectly legal AND rather frequent.


36 posted on 07/20/2012 12:35:14 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: allmendream

I believe in movies about heroes, and I am not one of those that gets OCD over violence in movies. That said, I have really noticed lately movies seem to be getting more and more violent. I’m not sure if the it’s a symptom of a more violent society or it is driving it, but I believe there is a relationship.

I mean, of course, everyone says and notices that, but I’m talking about the last maybe five years, brutality and violence have gotten over the top. Perhaps it is the better CGI responsible as much as anything else, but I really have seen the violence increase.

Current Top 20 movies at redbox:

50% R
40% PG-13
10% PG

1. 21 Jump Street R
2. Safe House R
3. Act of Valor R
4. Lockout PG-13
5. A Thousand Words PG-13
6. Wrath of the Titan PG-13
7. Wanderlust R
8. This Means War PG-13
9. Sherlock Holmes PG-13
10. Big Miracle PG
11. Machine Gun Preacher R
12. Project X R
13. Casa De Mi Padre R
14. Journey 2: The Mysterious Island PG
15. Friends with Kids R
16. The Grey R
17. John Carter PG-13
18. Contraband R
19. Chronicle PG-13
20. Ghost Rider PG-13


37 posted on 07/20/2012 5:25:14 PM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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