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WHY DID NO AMERICAN MAN OR WOMAN JUMP THE BATMAN KILLER?
Vanity. | 07/21/12 | Golux

Posted on 07/21/2012 2:00:36 PM PDT by golux

There are lots of experts in this forum of one kind or another. Here we have James Holmes. Why wasn't he taken down? Would you have done it?


TOPICS: Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 2goofy4words; bravery; goofygoofyquestion; goofysuggestion; jamesholmes
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To: Redcloak
...some municipalities have been allowed to get away with local bans. Aurora is one of those municipalities.

On another forum I said that, having heard it here yesterday. A respondent said that it is not the case. He said that he lives in Aurora, has his CCW, and that he carries everywhere.

Any Aurora FReepers who can clarify?

101 posted on 07/21/2012 3:23:25 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: golux

Yeah, why didn’t one of our precious, ultraprivileged young females go all Xena Warrior Princess and take him out with one sweeping ninja move?


102 posted on 07/21/2012 3:28:25 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Gettin Betta

Interesting. Had the shooting begun later in the movie, I would have assumed that it was part of opening night festivities - here comes one of Bane’s OWS mercenaries to scare and add excitement to the poor folks sitting there. And by the time you’re over your shock and disbelief, it’s all over.


103 posted on 07/21/2012 3:28:40 PM PDT by atc23 (The Confederacy was the single greatest conservative resistance to federal authority ever.)
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To: Revolting cat!

;-)


104 posted on 07/21/2012 3:29:55 PM PDT by frankenMonkey (will do graphics for food...)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

My comment was not intended to condemn this thread or to get people to stop posting to it. I simply wanted to say that anyone second-guessing what the people in the theater did or didn’t do is in my opinion doing them an injustice. Nor did i mean to imply that everyone here was doing this but i did perceive some instances of this.

I used the phrase “to everyone” in order to distinguish the comment from the person i was specifically replying to, to try to make clear i wasn’t addressing that part of my comment to him but was just making a general observation.


105 posted on 07/21/2012 3:34:01 PM PDT by Humbug
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To: Mike Darancette

And understand I’m not accusing you of blaming the victims. It’s just that there are a few out there who would somehow try to do that even if out of frustration because of the evil that happened.


106 posted on 07/21/2012 3:35:40 PM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com/)
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To: sean327; kabar
Very few Americans have ever been trained for a situation like this. Unless you are Active Duty Army or Marine Corps, or a veteran of those 2 services, or a cop your 1st reaction is to get away.

Who told you that, sean327? That is a load of crap. Nothing personal, but there ain't no training on Earth that prepares you for a deadly response in a situation like this. Bunch of people sitting around eating popcorn when some madman walks in, pops off smoke grenades and starts blasting little kids and stuff. Please.

107 posted on 07/21/2012 3:36:32 PM PDT by atc23 (The Confederacy was the single greatest conservative resistance to federal authority ever.)
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To: golux

The coward was in the corner by the screen exit. There would be no way to survive from his front. No one outside knew what was happening.

You can only stop someone firing lime that from the side or back, which there wasn’t.

Most of the people in the theater were kids. My kid was in one (same time, different state). He can shoot but he has never learned how to take down a mad shooter barehanded. He weighs 90 lbs.


108 posted on 07/21/2012 3:38:10 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: golux

There were active duty members in that theater, one of our Cyber Warriors was killed. I want to think that he tried to stop the a@@hole before he was killed.

John Larimer, 27, was described as “an awesome guy” well known for his intelligence, witty sense of humor and for being a passionate person who wasn’t afraid to share his views, according to Ben Stoner, Larimer’s English teacher and theater director at Crystal Lake South High School.

“I have nothing but absolutely, positive memories of John. He was a passionate kid who was a unique individual who was strong in his beliefs,” said Stoner. “He was a kid who had pretty grounded values and didn’t mind standing up for someone.”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/crystal_lake/chi-crystal-lake-man-died-in-colorado-shooting-20120721,0,2675469.story


109 posted on 07/21/2012 3:40:07 PM PDT by wxgesr (I want to be the first person to surf on another planet.)
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To: golux; Gettin Betta

Mike Adams, NaturalNews asked your question in his post today, and provided comments/discussion...
Why did no one fight back?
http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_James_Holmes_Batman_shooting.html


110 posted on 07/21/2012 3:42:55 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: avacado

“tear gas flooding the theater” Is Tear Gas that easy to buy in Colorado.??
Just Asking.


111 posted on 07/21/2012 3:43:36 PM PDT by Pompah
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To: golux

The tactical advantage of the shooter was overhwhelming. He planned this attack over a considerable amount of time. The victims had seconds to assess the situation and under the circumstances, it may have been impossible for any person to come with a viable plan of counter-attack. To launch a successful counter-attack a person, IMO would have to had anticipated an attack and made mental preparations before the actual assault.


112 posted on 07/21/2012 3:45:06 PM PDT by Ajnin (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnocet!)
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To: golux

Have you ever been around tear gas? You are lucky to see a foot in front of you and you are doing everything you can to not hack up a lung. I am certain if that wasn’t a factor you would have seen more heroics (like we have in other instances), but the average civilian has never been around tear gas and would have trouble coping, at that acting heroic.


113 posted on 07/21/2012 3:46:23 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Mr. Impatient

The rifle he used was a “semi-automatic”...one trigger pull=one shot fired.


114 posted on 07/21/2012 3:47:45 PM PDT by Jeeper99
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To: driftdiver
You’re assuming someone didn’t try to stop him and wound up dead.

Another good point. Also, all the stories aren't out. We just now heard today about the young man who saved a woman and her child by pushing them out the door, taking a bullet himself. There may be many other stories like that which haven't been told.

115 posted on 07/21/2012 3:48:41 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: JimSEA
Agree. What happened on Flight 93 is not analagous. The passengers knew that the plane would be crashed into buildings based on reports that they had received via cell phone. They had time to plan their attack and were not being sprayed with bullets. The people who were holding them hostage told them that they would not be hurt if they just obeyed instructions.

This is not to disparage what they did. They were heroes. They were trying to get control of the plane to save themselves from certain death.

For those who live in a fantasy world and have these Walter Mitty moments thinking how heoric they would have been, it is a bit nauseating. I have experienced a real life situation of being captured by armed intruders. Self-preservation is a very powerful instinct.

116 posted on 07/21/2012 3:49:22 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

– A Remington 8-gauge 1270 shotgun


Shouldn’t that be:

- A Remington 12-gauge model 870 shotgun


117 posted on 07/21/2012 3:51:17 PM PDT by deport
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To: Pompah

It may have been a home-made version. There are lots of instructions on how to make it on the internet (such as in The Anarchist Cookbook, Poor Man’s James Bond, and the Norway Shooter’s Manifesto).

You can also buy small tear gas grenades(sic) on line and from some suppliers rather cheap. Example:
http://www.keepshooting.com/clear-out-2oz-tear-gas-grenade.html


118 posted on 07/21/2012 3:52:05 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: deport

I just copied it out of a press report.


119 posted on 07/21/2012 3:53:28 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Mike Darancette

You have to consider that most adults who carry firearms are not going to be at a midnight showing of a Batman movie, or probably any midnight showing.


120 posted on 07/21/2012 3:56:35 PM PDT by angry elephant (Endangered species in Seattle)
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To: Mike Darancette

You have to consider that most adults who carry firearms are not going to be at a midnight showing of a Batman movie, or probably any midnight showing.


121 posted on 07/21/2012 3:56:45 PM PDT by angry elephant (Endangered species in Seattle)
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To: golux

It is really hard to say what was the best approach for the viewers of this movie to take.

BUT, this has made me look at lasers for my CC handguns and made me want to hit the range more.

It is surprising how many people own guns they have never even sighted in.


122 posted on 07/21/2012 3:56:45 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: Pompah

Just a follow up, I checked that site’s terms, etc, and the only restriction they had on buying it was an age verification (and asking you to comply with your State’s laws). Rather easy to obtain.


123 posted on 07/21/2012 3:58:27 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Pompah

““tear gas flooding the theater” Is Tear Gas that easy to buy in Colorado.??”

Maybe Mike Adams, NaturalNews, is on to something...
“Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged”
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html


124 posted on 07/21/2012 3:59:44 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Good point...even the police on the scene initially thought he was one of them...Psychologically, that would freeze most people.

Simple reason: He was.

125 posted on 07/21/2012 4:00:37 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: kabar

Good post.

Some of the self delusion and absurd statements in this thread reflect such a detachment from reality its not even funny.

1. First explosion was smoke bomb / tear gas. Shock and Awe, concealment, dehbilitation, etc.

2. Wall of bullets of flying from the bottom up. Are you going to rush the guy down the steps while everyone is racing in the opposite direction and have .00001% chance of not getting hit? No.

3. Those closest to him were probably first killed and suffering effects of tear gas and immediately shot.

4. Guy is dressed in black in a dark theatre. Hard to make him out in the chaos.

5. Guy is covered in body armour. 9mm, unless place perfect shot to the face, does little or nothing most likely, even if you hit him. And he is shooting back w unlimited ammo

6. Most people never ever been in said situation and never experience “adreneline dump”

7. Tackle the guy? LOL. a 24 y/o a 2 glocks, AR, and a shotgun and body armour is not going down unless three or four guys at the same time take him down. Again - how would that have been possible without a few waves of suicide rushers?

FYI - I have a third degree BB in two arts, have firearms training etc, and know full well that if I was in that situation, my training would have served little or no purpose due to the above factors.


126 posted on 07/21/2012 4:02:23 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Mr. Impatient
He had a semi-automatic weapon ~ not an auto. The firing cycle is different. HOWEVER with teargas present you might have some difficulty finding the target and jumping him.

Infantry doctrine has it that when you are INSIDE the killzone in an ambush you do an armed frontal assault but when you are OUTSIDE the killzone you withdraw and/or seek cover as appropriate.

If all the people closest to the shooter were children you'd probably need to wait until he'd gotten them out of your path ~ and even then running inside a threater over the seats is probably somewhat difficult.

Basically, the reason he got away with this is that he had a gas mask, he knew what he was doing, he had on body armor and a helmet, the terrain was very difficult, and nobody else was properly armed.

127 posted on 07/21/2012 4:03:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

That is the worst researched article I’ve read on this, even more than CBS. First, the gear wasn’t that exotic. Most of it you can pick up at any army/navy store or online. The explosives seem to have been mostly made from fireworks and commercial ‘pantry’ products from what is being reported has been found. s and that is if he didn’t get the guns on sale. Depending on the level of body armor and the type of gas mask, you can get those dirt cheap (you can find surplus gas masks for $10 online, body armor as low as $100 for the lowest grade).

I think some folks are over-playing this the same way the media overplays the ‘assault weapon’ angle. The author of that is the other side of the CBS/Mike Ross coin.


128 posted on 07/21/2012 4:10:45 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: kabar
Kaber, once while sitting at a table in an open air bistro in the Cologne bahnhof I saw a fellow with a group (of Turks ~ probably Kurds) at the next table over pull a gun out of his pants.

I immediately jumped to the other side of a large column I was sitting next to (getting cover is always important).

Next thing you know a German undercover cop close to the gunman had pried it away from him and was holding it overhead while others "pummeled the gunman".

That's how fast things happen. The adrenalin rush came later.

129 posted on 07/21/2012 4:11:17 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: kabar

RE: I have experienced a real life situation of being captured by armed intruders. Self-preservation is a very powerful instinct.
As have I, and it was. No harm was occuring and I was 16 then. Even then, I was thinking. It is not wasted to consider, even if it never happens


130 posted on 07/21/2012 4:11:41 PM PDT by Dosa26
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To: mnehring

...I accidently deleted a sentence in there.

I estimate he probably spent no more than $3K, not the $20K that natural news(sic) is claiming. Of course, that isn’t exactly a reputable site.


131 posted on 07/21/2012 4:13:03 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: muawiyah

another good post.


132 posted on 07/21/2012 4:14:41 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: golux
People that watch superhero fantasy movies rarely are superheros in real life
133 posted on 07/21/2012 4:15:21 PM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

Gotta text that to my wife:

Pick up milk
Pepsi
Teargas
Tac gear


134 posted on 07/21/2012 4:16:33 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

Gotta text that to my wife:

Pick up milk
Pepsi
Teargas
Tac gear

LOL!


135 posted on 07/21/2012 4:17:05 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: golux
Because those who would, would normally be at home asleep at midnight?

Maybe you should ask what kind of person goes to a midnight movie premier?

-PJ

136 posted on 07/21/2012 4:17:12 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Cvengr
His marksmanship wasn't equal to the task of shooting moving targets in the dark ~ he hit something like 70 people ~ he killed 20% of his targets.

The kid with the pallet of ammo down in Kentucky a few years back who'd never fired a weapon had thousands of hours of target practice on his video game system. He killed everyone he hit ~ but one, and those were with headshots.

That was outdoors in daylight and all his targets were serious Christians.

One of the contributing factors was the outside exit door. He easily disabled it so he could bring his weapons in unobserved.

We see that phenomenon at work in the Va Tech killings ~ the shooter disabled the doors with a simple chain. The cops couldn't get in to stop him!

So, tell me this, why is it only the cracked brained schizos think about how to use the doors to help them kill and/or to slow down the cops? Are there any building code specialists out there who can make a living selling improved door closure mechanisms and systems so these guys can't do this? Certainly the insurance companies would pay millions for a better idea.

137 posted on 07/21/2012 4:29:08 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Mr. Impatient
Seriously, try applying a little bit of common sense here. If someone has an automatic weapon and is currently firing it, are you going to try to bum rush him?

A person or persons could take him down by rushing him from behind.

138 posted on 07/21/2012 4:32:43 PM PDT by Isabel C.
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To: Isabel C.

lol - when was the last time you were in a movie theatre?

If he walked in from the bottom corner and started shooting in front those people were dead and the rest hit or scrambling. No one left to tackle him “from behind”

This was a terrorist like attack that little have could have been done to stop.


139 posted on 07/21/2012 4:35:33 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: tsowellfan

I have to think that the age of the theater goers was about 25 which was not a group to be armed forbidden by the theater or not.


140 posted on 07/21/2012 4:39:57 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obamaid has to go.)
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To: Isabel C.
Good evening.

I am going to be nice. I will not post what I would given your post.

I hope that doesn't make any sense to you.

5.56mm

141 posted on 07/21/2012 4:40:42 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: GlockThe Vote
If he walked in from the bottom corner and started shooting in front those people were dead and the rest hit or scrambling. No one left to tackle him “from behind”

Do you know for a fact that this is how the shooting in the Colorado movie theater happened or are you just making up this scenario?

142 posted on 07/21/2012 4:43:14 PM PDT by Isabel C.
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To: golux

So I’d say the lessons learned are:

1) Make sure your CC weapons have a well adjusted laser.

2) Target practice like crazy, practicing shooting while diving, running, jumping out of helicopters and repelling down walls if possible

3) save lives first then worry about cc restriction laws later


143 posted on 07/21/2012 4:44:38 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: MNDude

Ever see the Hills Have Eyes 2? My boyfriend called me right after he saw it, there was a family sitting in front of him during the movie, with five kids ranging in age from 5 months to about 12 or so years. Then at Doom, there was a guy with 2 kids behind us. a baby in a carrier and a pre-schooler, the preschooler was terrified and this guy just sat there watching the movie, and letting his kid cry.


144 posted on 07/21/2012 4:48:13 PM PDT by chae (I was anti-Obama before it was cool)
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To: Isabel C.

Just imagining in my head how this happened -

Door opens - bbboooommmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!

Smoke, explosion, tear gas, bullets.

Who the F is going to tackle him in that case?

Do you realize that during the beginning WW2 one of our biggest problems was soldiers freezing up? That was after boot camp etc.

You think a bunch of teenage and 20 something geeks are going to take out a psycho like this in body armour, spratying bullets all over etc?

Please. The level of sheer delusion on this thread is not worthy of this site.


145 posted on 07/21/2012 4:48:32 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: golux

A big problem may have been that he started at the front of the theater and those who weren’t shot were clearing out as he walked up the aisle. It would have taken a lot of courage to get off the floor or to go back into the theater after he passed your row and jump him. And if he was using two pistols at a time, both sides of theater are under threat. Not to mention the disorienting smoke bombs.


146 posted on 07/21/2012 4:54:40 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: kabar

Because no one expected the assault. Now with hyper-vigilance in various scenarios, a ‘rush’ is more likely. An aggressor on an airplane is now QUICKLY met with group attack because people are ANTICIPATING such a thing can happen.


147 posted on 07/21/2012 4:59:24 PM PDT by GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
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To: GlockThe Vote

You never answered the question I asked in response to your post #139. Do you know for a fact that how you described the events is how the shooting in the Colorado movie theater happened or did you just make up that scenario?


148 posted on 07/21/2012 5:00:13 PM PDT by Isabel C.
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To: GlockThe Vote

People think that having a gun is going to give them magical powers, but it doesn’t. I think somebody with a gun could have killed this guy and spared us all a costly trial, but there is no way that an audience member could have reacted fast enough to prevent the killings.

I’m not opposed to people being armed, and i think it could have helped; but what I’m saying that it’s not a magic charm. What we need is a mental health system that realizes that a good part of its job is to protect the average citizens, not to kowtow to nutcases.


149 posted on 07/21/2012 5:04:00 PM PDT by livius
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To: Isabel C.

Playing it out in my head from reports. Door opened - explosion - tear gas , bullets flying.

Darkness, loud noise, Dead bodies, dropping people screaming, smoke, tear gas, but oh yeah - why didnt those daredevils manage to takle a 6 foot psycho in body armour w explosives spraying bullets in all directions?

Please - like I said the self delusion and sheer idiocy of some people in this thread is breathtaking.


150 posted on 07/21/2012 5:04:36 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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