Skip to comments.NCAA: 'Punitive measures' await (against Penn State - worse than 'death penalty')
Posted on 07/22/2012 11:36:39 AM PDT by Zakeet
NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.
But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.
The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.
The NCAA will announce "corrective and punitive measures" for Penn State on Monday morning, it said in a statement Sunday. Emmert will reveal the sanctions at 9 a.m. ET in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters along with Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, the news release said.
(Excerpt) Read more at espn.go.com ...
I would have wanted to see a break from the old Penn logotyping and everything. Something like A Brand New Penn Writes Clean. The old legacy needs to be flushed like ordure because of the taint.
No, no, no. "Penn" is shortened name of the University of Pennsylvania, from the Ivy League. You can't ever refer to Penn State as "Penn."
However, Penn's motto may tell us a little about Penn State: Leges sine moribus vanae, which translates to "Laws without morals are useless."
C'mon, that's ridiculous. I'm no Penn State fan, but those victories were not achieved by gaining an unfair competitive advantage on the field by violating NCAA rules, or at least that's not what the NCAA is coming down on them for.
It's the NCAA here that's sticking its collective noses into a matter that's beyond its historical jurisdiction. The NCAA should confine itself to enforcement of its own rules to penalize behavior on the part of coaches, athletes and administrators that logically gives an unfair competitive advantage to one school over its opponent or opponents.
This Penn State mess is a matter of violations of the state criminal code, not the NCAA rules. The penalties for the guilty should therefore be meted out by the state criminal courts, not the NCAA.
This is not the first time that a college coach or administrator or athlete has been involved in criminal activity concerning "off the field" matters, activity which does not relate to winning and losing athletic contests. Yet, I don't know of any such case where the NCAA has intervened with penalties against the whole school.
There are state and federal criminal courts, and then there are NCAA enforcement procedures. Their jurisdictions are different and should be. In this case, throw a penalty flag at the NCAA and give them fifteen yards for piling on!
It would have been a better situation, sir, if Sandusky had been robbing banks and Paterno driving the getaway car.
Good sports is about wholesomeness. Sandusky didn’t steal money. He stole lives of boys by hollowing them out for a few moments of perverted pleasure. NCAA can and does apply sanctions of shame, maybe not with studied uniformity, but it’s got the right.
You may be the least serious person I've seen posting on this topic. First, PSU is a willing member of the NCAA, a private organization. Not all colleges and universities are members of the NCAA, for various reasons. The NCAA can figuratively take the ball away from PSU and say "hey, play all you want, just not with us". Do you not get that?
Second, as to your comment about breaking any NCAA rule. Why don't you just google "ncaa bylaws" and check? Oh, never mind, I already did. Please note section 2.4 (page 4 for your convenience):
You know absolutely nothing of which you speak, and you are wasting bandwidth.
Nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Penn State has already suffered its share of shame, and deservedly so. They will likely suffer more than the usual amount of football player transfers to other schools, and they will incur a stigma which will likely work to their disadvantage in recruiting for a few years.
The NCAA is not omnipotent and their jurisdiction is not unlimited, as several court cases, including one involving former UNLV basketball coach Jerry Tarkanian, prove.
And that's the way it should be. The NCAA is piling on. (Remember, I'm no Penn State fan.)
Pfah, it’s just a little embarrassment.
The NCAA is using the catch all phrase of ‘loss of institutional control’ which in their mind is the biggest crime. When a University President can’t fire a football coach (as happened in ‘04) or the AD reports back to him that JoePa doesn’t want to call the police. Then you have lost institutional control.
I believe you are mistaken. Tarkanian received injunctive relief from Nevada courts, but the SCOTUS eventually ruled in favor of the NCAA. Tarkanian “prevailed” in the sense that he continued to work as the case serpentined through the justice system.
It is a simple fact that the NCAA is not beholden to 14th amendment obligations to due process, and may indeed apply whatever force necessary to maintain its integrity.
I, too, am an ambivalent observer with respect to passions (or lack thereof) surrounding Penn State and its football program. Imagine you started a neighborhood cribbage league and discovered the couple next door was dealing crack to the local youth. Do you honestly think you would be prohibited from telling the couple to go to hell and not come back? That is the NCAA writ microscopic. They have omnipotent jurisdiction over their membership when it comes to issues involving activities associated with that membership.
I agree that vacating victories is silly, but consider the "competitive advantage" issue.
Had the Sandusky issue come to light when PSU officials were made aware, how many parents would have welcomed Paterno into their homes and encouraged their kids to attend PSU knowing his hand-picked successor had been revealed as a man who raped children? Is the avoidance of competitive disadvantage the same as competitive advantage?
No one (that I am aware of) believes that PSU deserves sanction because Sandusky raped boys. PSU deserves sanction because Sandusky raped boys and the university knew about it didn't do anything about it for ten years.
Gotta love mass punishment. Went to Fort Dix for basic back in 71. We had a soldier lose his weapon in the field. Whole platoon spent 3 hours looking for it, found it about 11 PM. Got back to the barracks by 1130 and in the bunk by 12. Come 1 AM our drunken platoon Sgt comes in and we are out in the hallway in our BVDs doing push ups. We never did see the Platoon Sgt after that night. Might have been something with mass punishment.
You want to punish a whole lot of people who had nothing to do with the incidents. The coach is dead, the real perp has been found guilty, the 3 other people have not been to trial yet. But lets blow up the whole sports programs, because they were also in the know. Lets not stop there, the Big 10 teams must also have known about it. Lets get them too. Nuke the entire site from orbit—its the only way to be sure
Penn state football should be shut down for 10 years or longer.
Agree. There are articles out now that say that PSU won’t appeal.
Well, they did clean house within the last year, albeit belatedly, up to and including the university president. As far is we know, there are no culpable parties still connected to the university, certainly not anyone with the current football team. Paterno is deceased, Sandusky in jail for life.
Penn State will not go unscathed with or without the NCAA sticking its nose into this. There is a major cloud hanging over the university and especially the football program, and justly so. They are likely to suffer more than the usual attrition of football players, and their recruiting in all sports, even their recruiting of non-athlete students, will be impaired until the cloud dissipates. It may take quite some time.
So the NCAA involvement at this late juncture is superfluous, and their sanctions might be considered to be unfair to the (presumably) innocent people who are there now.
I think you’re right that Penn State is going to suffer regardless of any NCAA sanctions. But if I’m the NCAA, I don’t want to let it slide, because every membership organization is ultimately judged for the actions of its membership. The NCAA bylaws are explicit in their requirement of highly ethical, lawful, and civil conduct on behalf of member institutions’ athletic officials, even when the conduct is not directly related to on the field activities.
Sandusky could have raped and murdered a nun on the fifty yard line and PSU would have skated if someone reported it to the police at the time. The underlying crime is horrific, but the problem the NCAA should have is that the highest officials of the member institution covered it up to save the football program.
I agree Penn State should get something. But here is the problem with this. The way the NCAA does things, everyone associated with the crime can be long gone by the time the punishment is rendered. I’m a USC fan and that was my big beef with the NCAA punishment there. Not that there wasn’t guilt....there was (although in hindsight, I’m more than happy to deal with infractions dealing with illegal gifts than with this mess). The problem was that the player involved, the AD, the head coach, etc...were all gone by the time the NCAA came in with the verdict.
What I’d much rather see is to have the NCAA declare individals involved labeled “untouchables”. That is, if you knew and didnt do the right thing, then you are banned for a set term from being involved at an NCAA school. From the Coaching staff to the administration, if you knew about something like this and didn’t speak up, you can’t work at a NCAA college. If the college hires you as even a janitor, they are banned from NCAA participation for as long as you remain an employee. You could vary the term based on the situation (for the Penn State case, I’d think lifetime bans would apply to almost everyone) but at least then you’d be punishing the people who did wrong, not coming in after it was over and punishing people who didn’t have anything to do with it. You might have better success in forcing people to speak up if they knew the penalty could follow them, and they couldn’t just pick up and move and escape the consequences.
So the winnings coach in history covers upccrimes for his dc and hires an assistant to keep him quiet isn’t lack of institutional control? Sorry but yes it does fall into that realm. I would say it gave them a competitive advantage because they kept it quiet.
Wrong on recruiting..they are having one of their better recruiting years they have had in a while.
And that is exactly why some serious action should be taken this time.
Whatever wrist slapping took place in the past has certainly not been a deterrent.
It is time to put justice and the interests of the innocents before concerns about revenus, profits, the school itself and its sports program.
Kill the football program forever and turn the stadium grounds into a corn field.
Then other schools and officials will get the message.
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