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'Myths' Are More Plausible than Fiction
Daily Telegraph via Europhysics Letters ^ | 25 July 2012 | Nick Collins

Posted on 07/24/2012 8:31:13 PM PDT by rjbemsha

[Research] "findings support historians' belief that ancient myths ... may be based, at least in part, on real communities and people."

Researchers from Coventry University analysed the texts of three ancient stories and compared the complex web of characters' relationships with the type of "social networks" that occur in real life.

The results showed that the societies depicted in the stories strongly mirrored real social networks that had been mapped out by others. But modern fiction differed from the ancient myths, as well as from real social networks, in telltale ways.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; godsgravesglyphs; immanuelvelikovsky; mythology; socialnetworks; velikovsky
A co-author, Pádraig Mac Carron, stated: "The societies portrayed in these stories [i.e., myths] are believable ... not the events, or even the actual people, but the overall society is realistic."

In other words, the findings suggest that 'myths' have more elements of truth than fiction.

Also see http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/07/is-mythology-like-facebook.html?rss=1

1 posted on 07/24/2012 8:31:21 PM PDT by rjbemsha
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To: rjbemsha

Interesting. Mildly.


2 posted on 07/24/2012 8:34:36 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: rjbemsha

Technically, there is nothing inherent in the word “myth” that requires it to be false or not true. The myth of Odysseus is a myth even if every word about him were (somehow) true


3 posted on 07/24/2012 8:54:04 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: rjbemsha
There's a scene in Book VI of the Iliad where Hector visits his wife and child, and his son is frightened by his appearance as he is wearing his helmet. Hector laughs, and removing his helmet, jostles his son.

When I read this ( in translation ) I was quite moved by the everyday truth of its depiction, and I consulted Pope's Iliad, which includes Observations on each book. He notes, of this description:

All these are but small circumstances, but so artfully chosen that every reader immediately feels the force of them, and represents the whole in the utmost liveliness to his imagination.

4 posted on 07/24/2012 10:26:33 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: muir_redwoods
The myth of Odysseus is a myth even if every word about him were (somehow) true

The same may be said of our scientific myth of the solar system as it is presented to school children, and the public. The most revealing mythic element in this presentation is the ubiquitous depiction of the planets on a compressed distance scale, so that they are bunched together. When you say "solar system" this is how people will think of it, never minding the justifications for these depictions in the name of expediency. How can this image be rectified with the actual observation of the planets by ones own eyes in the night sky? Only by contortions which are absent from the minds of the unwashed, who accept these depictions purely as myth.

5 posted on 07/24/2012 10:36:05 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: rjbemsha

And it is modern man that considers those works from the ancients as myth—— I tend to think they are true accounts


6 posted on 07/24/2012 10:54:40 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: rjbemsha

the longer article is strange, because it suggests that the people in the myth know a lot of folks that we don’t know who they are (i.e. they are not in the story) and this resembles reality...

But I suspect that a lot of people listening to the Iliad or Beowulf would probably know who these folks are (their stories were lost). So the writer of the essay is probably wrong in saying this.

Modern novels don’t tend to put someone unknown in the story, however, because that is the modern “rule”.

However, the criticism breaks down for Lord of the Rings, because Tolkien’s books are full of characters who we don’t know who they are or what he’s talking about (unless you read the 14 volume collected works)...


7 posted on 07/25/2012 12:25:44 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: dr_lew
What's even more mythical (sorry, if this is off topic) is the absolute myth that Copernican astronomy was superior to Ptolemy's. Or that Copernicus suffered any push back from the church. (Copernicus was a Cannon, an ecclesiastic sinecure.) Martin Luther, personally attacked and derided the Copernican heresy, the Pope was utterly indifferent. Copernican astronomy was arguably a scientific set back and would have been worse than a dead end, had he not inspired Kepler to invent a truly revolutionary model based on Tyco’s observation.
8 posted on 07/25/2012 4:05:06 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: muir_redwoods

I’ve studied more Latin than Greek, but I don’t believe that’s true.

Liddell and Scott give:
mythologia (in Greek letters): romance, fiction, legend, story-telling


9 posted on 07/25/2012 4:20:05 AM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: scrabblehack

Try a review of the work of Joseph Campbell. The myth can be legend or, in more modern parlance, reputation. It can easily be either true or false and still be myth.


10 posted on 07/25/2012 6:06:52 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Johann Widmanstetter was a proponent of Copernicanism and a secretary to Popes Clement VII and Paul III. He explained the theory to Clement VII, presumably in the terms that we find in the preface to the Revolutionibus, which assert its purely mathematical nature. Clement was pleased, but died in 1534, and the work was dedicated to his successor, Paul III.

If the work was nothing but an ornament to these Popes, Copernicus and his functionaries worried a great deal about its reception by the Church. It's a long and well known story, with the finished work and its apologetic preface coming into Copernicus' hands the very day he died.

It was fifteen Popes later, under Urban VIII, that Galileo received his sentence of condemnation:

We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and confessed by you as above, have rendered yourself in the judgement of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely of having believed and held the doctrine which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures - that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; ...

11 posted on 07/25/2012 10:11:48 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: dr_lew
Apparently Urban VI was more or less indifferent to heliocentricism. He was a friend of Galileo and had read a draft of Dialogues and asked Galileo some questions about the treatment of tides. Galileo told him he would clear it up in the final edition He did so by putting the Pope's questions in the mouth of the character Simplicus, only to have them swatted away dismissively by the character of the wise Salvati. Galileo was like that. He had an abrasive personality and a talent for making enemies. What is worse, is that he had absolutely no idea about the mechanism of tides, had never really studied them and just talking smack. It would take Newton and his disciples (mainly LaPlace) about 100 years to come up with a reasonable explanation of tides.

Dialogues gave Galileo's enemies a pretext and they seized it. His former friend, the Pope, did nothing to help him, though it is unlikely he would have without the insult Galileo had given him in Dialogues.

Copernicus' literary agent, the Lutheran cleric, Andreas Osiander, inserted the following unattributed preface to De revolutionibus:

"Beware if you seek truth in astronomy, lest you leave this book a greater fool than when you came to it."

It was an attempt to ward off eccliastical wrath. While the Church was indifferent to heliocentricism, Luther personally believed it to be heresey and was violently opposed to it at the time of publication. Osiander also placed in the disclaimer that helocentricism was only an "hypothesis", what we today would call a mathematical model and did not represent reality. Copernicus only saw the final edition on his death bed and he was outraged by Osiander's insertions. Copernicus thought he had discovered the truth, that the planets did revolve around the sun, but by that time there was nothing he could about it.

12 posted on 07/26/2012 3:11:26 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; ...
Thanks rjbemsha.
There has seldom been a more "one of those topics" than this one. :')


13 posted on 07/26/2012 4:06:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks rjbemsha.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


14 posted on 07/26/2012 4:07:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: rjbemsha
"'Myths' Are More Plausible than Fiction"



Ummmm - don"t try to test this theory at home - we're what you call "professionals"...
15 posted on 07/26/2012 5:16:03 PM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (The emperor has no pedigree.)
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To: Hegemony Cricket

“don”t try to test this theory at home - we’re what you call “professionals”...

That’s what they said right before they bounced a cannonball into someone’s house.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/06/9259533-mythbusters-cannonball-goes-through-nearby-house?lite


16 posted on 07/27/2012 9:41:55 PM PDT by Redcitizen (bumper sticker- my Great Dane is smarter than your honor student.)
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To: LadyDoc

I am reading Game of Thrones, and the author must not have learned the rule about not mentioning extraneous people. As each chapter starts, I cannot usually remember if we are talking about someone we have already met, and whose story I should know, or if it is someone brand new. It is becoming exhausting, and turning into a reading slog. Lord of the Rings, and even The Silmarillion, are the souls of brevity in comparison ;)


17 posted on 07/28/2012 3:52:25 AM PDT by Explorer89 (And now, let the wild rumpus start!!)
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additional:

Physicists Study Homer’s Iliad and Other Classics for Hidden Truths
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120725090933.htm


18 posted on 07/28/2012 7:15:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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