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Advice Regarding Akin (honey vs vinegar)
The Weekly Standard ^ | 8/22/2012 | William Kristol

Posted on 08/22/2012 7:49:08 AM PDT by Kolath

My advice, for what it's worth, to conservatives and Republicans desperate to see Todd Akin off the ballot in Missouri: You've made your point. You've bewailed and denounced and threatened. Now it's time to hearken to the words of Lincoln, in his great Temperance Address, delivered on Washington's birthday in 1842 in Springfield, Illinois, addressing the fervent and fervid temperance advocates of his time—but also the fervent and fervid of all times:

(Excerpt) Read more at weeklystandard.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: akin
Discuss....
1 posted on 08/22/2012 7:49:12 AM PDT by Kolath
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To: Kolath

Akin pulled a really stupid mistake. He apologized. He should withdraw as soon as that idiot D (Hank Johnson) who worried about Guam tipping over quits because of his stupidity. And there are so many more examples of stupid statements by Ds.


2 posted on 08/22/2012 8:00:10 AM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: Kolath

It would seem that these days politics is not about persuasion but about bullying. More and more we don’t say, “I disagree” with someone. We call them an idiot or a moron. Maybe the point is to turn as many voters as possible off so that the extremes can own the stage. I don’t know.


3 posted on 08/22/2012 8:01:09 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: Kolath
Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart, which, say what he will, is the great highroad to his reason...

This assumes a reasonable man. Akin is not. He is deeply delusional.

4 posted on 08/22/2012 8:01:56 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: knittnmom
Akin pulled a really stupid mistake.

Sorry, but a mistake is Biden calling this the 20th Century. The use of "legitimate" rape, was a mistake. I'm sure he meant "actual" rape (as opposed to, perhaps, statutory rape.) So far, I'm with you. But throwing in a ridiculous medical opinion that a woman who is raped somehow shuts down her reproductive system to avoid pregnancy is an espousal of a belief that is clearly erroneous. Furthermore, it plays right into the left's phony attacks about the right's war on women. He needs to go.

5 posted on 08/22/2012 8:11:18 AM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree (I didn't write this by myself. Obama helped me. Everyone helped me.)
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To: Kolath

Unfortunately, this entire episode has taken every ones eyes off the prize. That being, the defeat of Mother McCaskill and her co-conspirator, the Imposter from Mombasa.


6 posted on 08/22/2012 8:22:18 AM PDT by donozark (Old Indian saying:Follow the cigar smoke, find the fat man there.)
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To: Kolath
Biden says a dozen things dumber than this every week, and nothing much happens.

It's only because the GOP is flooding their collective Depends about what the media will think of them that this is an issue at all.

7 posted on 08/22/2012 8:25:35 AM PDT by Eric Pode of Croydon
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Exactly. Akin is living in his own delusional world. Bet he actually thinks the republic can’t survive without him. We somehow muddled along after the death of George Washington, etc., but without the wisdom of Akin....

Exhibit A of why normal citizens hate politicians.


8 posted on 08/22/2012 8:27:13 AM PDT by tbg681
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To: Kolath

All I know is that I oppose abortion no matter how ham handed I state it and I will never back down from the truth that matters.


9 posted on 08/22/2012 8:37:04 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Kolath
"...My advice, for what it's worth, to conservatives and Republicans..."

It is worth absolutely nothing, so...don't bother.

10 posted on 08/22/2012 8:37:18 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: Eric Pode of Croydon
"Biden says a dozen things dumber than this every week, and nothing much happens."

I'm tired of this argument already. The MSM is going to cover for Biden and every other lib who says something stupid. The sooner we recognize that and deal with it, the better. Whining about it, or demanding "fairness" isn't going to solve a thing.

This is Agincourt. We are outnumbered and out-armored, but we do have the longbow. The sooner we stop crying about the enemy's advantages, start adapting our tactics to our strengths, exploit our enemy's weaknesses and more carefully choose the terrain on which we fight, the better off we'll be.

Akin, wielding a pocket knife and wearing little more than an "I'm with stupid" T-Shirt, charged headlong into a rank of mounted men-at-arms. He's toast. We need to write him off and fight smarter than he did.

11 posted on 08/22/2012 8:38:29 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Kolath

At least he didn’t rape a 17 year old boy like that one D-bag democrat Representative who is in office right now.


12 posted on 08/22/2012 8:39:36 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Kolath

Akin is a good man and is surrounded by good people —


13 posted on 08/22/2012 8:42:42 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Kolath

I know this: I’ve been persuaded more by people who came along side me and spoken to me kindly than by bullies who threatened me.

Kristol isn’t giving bad advice.


14 posted on 08/22/2012 8:55:14 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Uncle Chip
Akin is a good man and is surrounded by good people —
True!
15 posted on 08/22/2012 8:56:29 AM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: Uncle Chip
Akin is a good man and is surrounded by good people —

I don't know him, but he does seem like a good man. When this thing first broke, I thought he could weather it. The longer this goes on, he is less and less likely to win the Senate seat. It is too bad so many Republicans chose to immediately throw him under the bus vs. helping him with PR and better info on the whole thing....but here we are.

If taking back the Senate hinged on his seat, is his country worth giving up his slot? At this point, it doesn't matter what is fair...what matters is reality on the ground. He should step down for his country. (If he does stay in, he will need a whole lot of good people funding/supporting him because noone else is doing it at this point.)
16 posted on 08/22/2012 9:00:54 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: Kolath
If this man has been so stupid and/or ignorant in the past, would some republican or conservative from Missouri tell me how this man made it through the primary in the first place? Is this the first gaffe he has made?
17 posted on 08/22/2012 9:02:31 AM PDT by Datom
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To: Datom
"If this man has been so stupid and/or ignorant in the past, would some republican or conservative from Missouri tell me how this man made it through the primary in the first place? Is this the first gaffe he has made?"

He made it through the primary with help from the left and an open primary that allowed Democrat crossover voting. Open primaries are an invitation to political mischief.

18 posted on 08/22/2012 9:07:04 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Kolath

If I may offer a small bit of advice to Republicans and conservatives in Missouri, if Akin stays vote for him. If Akin goes, vote for whomever takes his place. Don’t split your ticket, and don’t self-destruct. This is not a year that any of us can afford to cut off our nose to spite our face. This is, I believe, the most critical election in the history of this nation, and we can’t afford to send a complete moron like Claire McCaskill back to Obama’s Washington, even if it means replacing her with someone who is so passionate about saving human life he thinks the stress caused by rape would cause a woman’s reproductive system to shut down. And his use of the word “legitimate,” ...sheeeesh, unbelievable, but still no reason for the Republican Party to turn up the heat while sitting in the frying pan.


19 posted on 08/22/2012 9:14:51 AM PDT by pallis
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To: knittnmom

Most publically advising Akin to withdraw have said their piece and now are moving on and not remaining in the dem’s game plan of diversion and smear.

The man made amends and stood his ground, something that has long been needed to be SOP within the GOP. No conservative, regardless of the degree, is ever going to win over dems sympathy or friendship. its high time everyone recognize that fact.

Today it seems those still ranting against Akin are mostly here on FR. Surprised? NO!


20 posted on 08/22/2012 9:22:43 AM PDT by X-spurt (It is truly time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: Kolath
Akin should be made aware of the Democrat strategy for eliminating rape and unwanted pregnancies: The Gauthier Plan
21 posted on 08/22/2012 9:27:35 AM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree (I didn't write this by myself. Obama helped me. Everyone helped me.)
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To: Girlene

There are 15 other Senate seats up for grabs. How are they doing???


22 posted on 08/22/2012 9:32:02 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: X-spurt
No conservative, regardless of the degree, is ever going to win over dems sympathy or friendship. its high time everyone recognize that fact.

Too many in the GOP leadership as witnessed by their actions over this issue let the Left Wing MSM panic them and too many on this site do the same thing
23 posted on 08/22/2012 9:34:06 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree

Thank you.
That breaks it down why his comment was so bad.

What makes it even worse is that it was totally and absolutely unneccesary to make such a comment. It served NO PURPOSE, doesn’t help the pro-Life cause, instead it hurts the cause.

Those who are pro-Life are hurting the cause by supporting this man. Yes, I know he recanted about biology claim as well. But the damage is done and as a very pro-Life person I wasn’t convinced. Seemed like he was just saving his skin.

At best, he comes across as a buffoon with a big mouth. How many more of those do we need in Congress.

At worst, he comes across as a witch hunter ... if the woman is pregnant, then she must not have been “legitimately” raped.


24 posted on 08/22/2012 9:35:02 AM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree

“The use of “legitimate” rape, was a mistake. I’m sure he meant “actual” rape (as opposed to, perhaps, statutory rape.)”

My take on what he was trying to convey:

“Legitimate rape”: Someone who forcibly performs intimate relations with an unwilling participant.

“Illegitimate rape”: Some bimbo who lays down, spreads her legs, has consensual intimate relations, gets pregnant then CLAIMS rape in order to get a free abortion.


25 posted on 08/22/2012 9:38:09 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: Truth29

You are right about that.

Thanks


26 posted on 08/22/2012 9:47:25 AM PDT by Datom
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To: tbg681

“Exactly. Akin is living in his own delusional world.”

The comment Akin said about “the whole thing shuts down”:

He was actually using information from some doctor who claims that that is the case. It wasn’t simply Akin’s opinion.

True that “the whole thing shuts down”? I have no idea. Just informing you. Don’t shoot the messenger. :-)

There was a post about it yesterday on another of the many Akin threads.


27 posted on 08/22/2012 9:48:15 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: Lorianne
At worst, he comes across as a witch hunter ... if the woman is pregnant, then she must not have been “legitimately” raped.

I doubt he meant any such thing

And BTW I have heard that statement about getting pregnant from rape being very rare for the reason he stated used in the past by ProLifers
Evidently he was told that as a medical fact by someone he believed
I doubt he made it up on the spot

Since from what I read he is very much in touch with the PROLIFE movement. I would assume that is where he got the view

He should have made sure it was a medical fact but like I said he was probably given that info by someone he trusted

I would like to hear him state WHY he thought it to be true
28 posted on 08/22/2012 9:48:26 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: Uncle Chip
Senate Races in play: Rasmussen Reports

Looks tight.
29 posted on 08/22/2012 9:50:53 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: pallis

““legitimate,” ...sheeeesh, unbelievable,”

Please see Post # 25.


30 posted on 08/22/2012 9:52:21 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: tbg681

It’s amazing to me how all you people who didn’t even know Todd Akin’s name 2 days ago now know him so well that they can comment on his mental capability, his “delusions”, his irrationality...... you know what you guys, I lived in his district for a long time and I know him very well. Here’s who he is:

He is a God-loving, God-fearing strong conservative who always votes his values. He is active in the Homeschool community and he is a pro-life hero. In other words.... he is exactly what we as Conservatives want.....he ain’t no RINO.

He made a big mistake by not having a pat answer prepared ahead of time for the question that he had to know that every single liberal journalist/commentator was going to ask. This is inexcusable.... all he had to do to beat Claire McCaskill was to be breathing and not screw up.

I love Todd.... I voted for him. In my mind he needs to step down because the media (the same media who won’t let the voters know that BO voted “present” rather than support the “Born Alive Infant Act” in Illinois) will not let this go and they’ll mischaracterize this every which way from Sunday in order to make him look evil.

As far as you amateur psychologists out there, ease up on him.... he still has time to do the right thing.


31 posted on 08/22/2012 9:54:13 AM PDT by schaef21
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To: Joe 6-pack

You are being pragmatic, which is the ONLY way to look at this. though there are many here who prefer to be idealistic, and that just gets you SQUAT as far as achieving conservative goals. i am sick to death of moans about the DOUBLE STANDARD. it is a fact of LIFE, put on your big girl/boy pants and just DEAL with it. we have to be bigger, faster, stronger and smarter bc that’s what it means to be a conservative.


32 posted on 08/22/2012 9:55:08 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: uncbob

“I would like to hear him state WHY he thought it to be true”

He was using the information he got from a doctor who holds the opinion/theory that a female’s reproductive system does shut down during rape.

Does a female’s reproductive system shut down during rape? I have no idea. Just trying to answer your question. The post about the doctor was on one of the Akin threads yesterday.


33 posted on 08/22/2012 9:58:32 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

That was my take on what Akin meant by “legitimate,” but still..., its a dark, twisting, muddy road to take when political enemies from all sides have mined the way.


34 posted on 08/22/2012 10:02:57 AM PDT by pallis
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To: schaef21

Good post.


35 posted on 08/22/2012 10:05:43 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Joe 6-pack
It's not about Akin or what he said. I agree it was a gaffe.

The problem is the whole GOP having a nationwide case of the hysterical vapours when

(1) that only magnifies a one-day story into a multi-week story and

(2) what Akin said would change only a tiny handful of votes. Nearly everyone who would be offended by his comment is a diehard McCaskill/Obama voter already.

36 posted on 08/22/2012 10:07:06 AM PDT by Eric Pode of Croydon
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To: Girlene

Thanks — good site.

Akin still up 47% to 44%

And looks like a good chance of picking up 6 other seats.


37 posted on 08/22/2012 10:17:16 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Eric Pode of Croydon
"2) what Akin said would change only a tiny handful of votes. Nearly everyone who would be offended by his comment is a diehard McCaskill/Obama voter already."

Don't think so, unless all of the people offended here on FR are diehard McCaskill/Obama voters. What he said was so offensive, particularly the part about female reproductive defense mechanisms that he is radioactive. He has been repudiated by a wide spectrum of Republican spokespersons, cut off from national funding and asked not to attend the Republican National Convention. He is effectively running an insurgent campaign independent of the Republican party and is being used by the Democrats to hurt not only his own Senatorial race, but also other races and the chance to take the Senate and revive the Democrat War on Women meme.

38 posted on 08/22/2012 10:32:31 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Uncle Chip
You're welcome. That poll was taken July 30. Election 2012: Missouri Senate
39 posted on 08/22/2012 10:35:20 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise
“Legitimate rape”: Someone who forcibly performs intimate relations with an unwilling participant.

“Illegitimate rape”: Some bimbo who lays down, spreads her legs, has consensual intimate relations, gets pregnant then CLAIMS rape in order to get a free abortion.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

And, if you extend Akin's analysis--that the reproductive system shuts down after a (legitimate) rape--the inference is that pregnant women who claim to have been raped are lying, because if they really had been raped, they couldn't get pregnant. It's an insult to women, an insult to medical science, and an insult to our collective intelligence.

Bottom line: the answer to the left's loaded question on abortion to us on the pro-life side of "Well, what about in the case of rape?" should not be, "Women who get raped don't get pregnant."

40 posted on 08/22/2012 10:47:26 AM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree (I didn't write this by myself. Obama helped me. Everyone helped me.)
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise
Here's a website started by children born out of rape. Itappears to be legit, at least to me.

Forgotten Victims of Rape.

41 posted on 08/22/2012 10:54:01 AM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree (I didn't write this by myself. Obama helped me. Everyone helped me.)
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree

“And, if you extend Akin’s analysis—that the reproductive system shuts down after a (legitimate) rape—the inference is that pregnant women who claim to have been raped are lying, because if they really had been raped, they couldn’t get pregnant. It’s an insult to women, an insult to medical science, and an insult to our collective intelligence.

Bottom line: the answer to the left’s loaded question on abortion to us on the pro-life side of “Well, what about in the case of rape?” should not be, “Women who get raped don’t get pregnant.””

Everything you say is true but Akin is not ‘delusional’. He was using information from some doctor who claims that the female reproductive system shuts down during rape. True? I have no idea but it wasn’t Akin’s ‘delusional’ opinion.

There was a post on one of the Akin threads yesterday that cited the doctor’s name.


42 posted on 08/22/2012 10:59:48 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree

“Here’s a website started by children born out of rape. Itappears to be legit, at least to me.”

I’m not a doctor. It just seems to me that if the egg is there where it is supposed to be during ovulation, then BINGO! It is extremely difficult for me to believe that a female’s system ‘shuts down’ during rape. I was merely sharing information from yesterday’s thread. :-)


43 posted on 08/22/2012 11:30:57 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: brytlea
"It would seem that these days politics is not about persuasion but about bullying. More and more we don’t say, “I disagree” with someone. We call them an idiot or a moron. Maybe the point is to turn as many voters as possible off so that the extremes can own the stage. I don’t know."

In discussing political positions one can have disagreements and still maintain a civil discourse. Akin's blunder wasn't one of policy however, it was one of biology where the facts are clear. Women cannot somehow prevent themselves from getting pregnant if they are raped. Legitimately raped or otherwise.

Since Akin believes they can, he is obviously an idiot or moron. It's true one can be civil in pointing it out, but the point must be made. He is not remotely qualified to represent anyone in congress.

44 posted on 08/22/2012 12:00:07 PM PDT by monday
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

Thanks


45 posted on 08/22/2012 12:20:10 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: monday

Actually if an understanding of science and biology is a prerequisite for holding a position in Congress I think most of them should be turned out. Yeah, he was wrong, but most people in this country are woefully uneducated about those subjects. I’m a former biology teacher and I hear all kinds of silly things from people. Your comment that it makes him not “remotely qualified” seems quite over the top to me. I think what makes someone not “remotely qualified” is a desire to hand out tax dollars to buy votes or a belief that the government should run every aspect of our lives, or that the Federal government can force me to buy health insurance, etc. But maybe that’s just me.


46 posted on 08/22/2012 12:45:36 PM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: brytlea
"Actually if an understanding of science and biology is a prerequisite for holding a position in Congress I think most of them should be turned out."

They should. There are, sadly, more morons in congress than should be possible, but come on. Akin doesn't even know how babies are made. You have to admit, that is pretty dumb.

47 posted on 08/22/2012 1:17:23 PM PDT by monday
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To: monday

I’m sure he knows how they are made. I’m sure he heard this from someone he trusts. Lots and lots of people don’t know much about the mechanics of the human body. I used to teach sex ed as well as biology (it was part of the health curriculum). The amount of ignorance was astounding. This IS a little out there, but if your world view is against abortion and someone (I bet a doctor) tells you something like this with some sort of sciencey sounding explanation, you may think, “sure, why not.” Especially if you don’t know a lot about the subject.
I am NOT saying it’s good science. I’m saying if your tilt was toward wanting to believe that it was harder to get pregnant by rape and someone you trusted told you some mechanism that made it so, you might buy it. That’s all. This does not make him a moron. I don’t know if he is one or not. It’s hard for me to say if it’s dumb or not because as I said I have a background in this stuff, so I hate to gauge someone based on what I know. It’s just hard to judge someone based on our own knowledge base. I don’t know much about him.

But I DO know that the left is lower than low and uses underhanded tactics and we have got to start standing up to them or we will lose every single time. That’s all. And I don’t really want to fight with my fellow conservatives. We need to be united.


48 posted on 08/22/2012 1:48:46 PM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: monday

He’s been representing me for years and has been the prototype for what people on this website want..... a conservative first, Republican second representative.

There are doctors that say the trauma and stress that a woman undergoes during a forcible rape can do exactly what Akin said. He never said that women “can somehow prevent themselves from getting pregnant”.

His inartful use of words has cost him big time.... but stop with the denigration. He’s a good man who screwed up.


49 posted on 08/22/2012 3:07:29 PM PDT by schaef21
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