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Time to talk about SECESSION--vanity
Nov. 7th, 2012 | LifeComesFirst

Posted on 11/06/2012 10:33:47 PM PST by LifeComesFirst

It's too late for "taking this country back," it's too far gone. There is too large a segment of the population that wants to live under a large welfare state with minimal civil liberties and free abortions for all. We had the Tea Party and it hasn't done a lick of good. That's because it was trying to work within our existing, utterly broken system.

Think about these points:

--the country has been on a very un-Constitutional path since at least the New Deal --rule of law continues to erode as Obama uses executive orders and openly selectively enforces the law, and will nullify private contracts at will in order to benefit his special interests (Chrysler) --we cannot fly around our own country without being groped by petty civil "servants" --for the first time, the federal government has the power to place any mandate on us that it wants to, as Justice John Roberts has ruled that the power to tax is all-encompassing, so conceivably they could "tax" whatever behavior they want to stamp out and this will pass muster --our court system will only get worse as Obama will put farther left justices in courts --big business is aligned with government to an extent never seen, as corporations try to win subsidies or favorable regulations rather than trying to please customers --our very energy sources are being controlled by the government, limiting drilling, pipelines, etc. --huge segments of the population think of welfare and illegitimacy as ways of life, there are whole neighborhoods where self-reliance and education is secondary to handouts --whole segments of the economy are artificially propped up by the government, creating the illusion that bad economics times will follow if the government cuts its budget --entitlement spending is on track to bankrupt the whole western world --we have a country where half the population looks at record welfare, record food stamps, endless unemployment and stagnation, and says "more please" --even with a supermajority in both houses and control of the White House, no political party has the power to enact large scale changes. Even ObamaCare, which was supposed to be universal healthcare, was instead watered down into some Frankenstein's monster of special-interest-pleasing mandates and regulations. --Even if Romney had won, it would be politically impossible for him to do what would be necessary: major spending cuts and a large contraction of the welfare state, and slash-and-burn shrinking of the federal government. At best, we would have marginally lower taxes but still have trillions in debt and spending.

There are two reasons why all of these problems are intractable in this country: 1) half the country has a rotten culture which values government as savior 2) these flawed policies are baked in to the system. No amount of Tea Party protests and electing the right people will change anything. We have tried that, tried our darnedest, and it didn't work.

Complaining about "oh we just need more conservative candidates" isn't the answer either. Half the country wouldn't vote for a "true conservative" and if a "true conservative" became president, he or she would be very limited in what they could do. Reagan couldn't even cut the National Endowment for the Arts, for crying out loud.

Half the country wants a European welfare state, half the country wants limited government and economic freedom. I say both sides deserve the government they want to live under.

I think it is a basic human right to live under a government that governs with the consent of the governed. I think this basic human right transcends whatever the law may say (Scalia says there is no Constitutional right to secede). The Civil War experience we had in this country has forever colored our concept of secession. We automatically think of it as a violent, tragic enterprise. But this is a narrow viewpoint. There was a Civil War because one side wanted to secede and the other side wanted to remain intact.

But in a situation where both (or more) sides are willing to secede, you can have a peaceful split. Czechoslovakia becoming the Czech Republic and Slovakia, for example.

The historical trend has been for small countries to merge into big countries, but there is no a priori reason to assume that this is always inevitable or always desirable.

2014 won't save us. 2016 won't save us. Getting a new person in the White House isn't the answer, that only buys time, it doesn't fix the problem.

It's time for people, not just right-wingers but it should start with them, to start floating the idea of a peaceful break-up of the United States of America. Getting bogged down into how it will work or whatever isn't the first step, the first step is to overcome the taboo of talking about it. Right now, even among many right-wingers, it is tinfoil hat talk to mention the s-word. That needs to change. This would be a much happier continent in a post-secession America.


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: america; election; secession; society
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1 posted on 11/06/2012 10:33:56 PM PST by LifeComesFirst
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To: LifeComesFirst

secession is never going to happen

It will just give the dictator a cause to trumpet as he goes to war


2 posted on 11/06/2012 10:36:04 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: LifeComesFirst

We in Louisiana agree with that


3 posted on 11/06/2012 10:37:38 PM PST by Democrat_media (limit government to 5000 words of laws. how to limit gov Quantify limited government ...)
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To: LifeComesFirst

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again and damn the consequences:

We’re all Dixie now.


4 posted on 11/06/2012 10:37:46 PM PST by Salamander (Wounded, old and dangerous.)
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To: LifeComesFirst

Secession, rebellion, treason... call it whatever you want. I’m in!!!!!!!!


5 posted on 11/06/2012 10:39:56 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: GeronL

[ secession is never going to happen

It will just give the dictator a cause to trumpet as he goes to war ]

The only thing to do is sell it to the libs as a way to get rid of the hicks and clingers...

It is all about Marketing...

Sell it like the Czech republic split up


6 posted on 11/06/2012 10:41:41 PM PST by GraceG
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To: LifeComesFirst

A house divided against itself cannot stand. Our divisions cannot be reconciled.


7 posted on 11/06/2012 10:42:05 PM PST by Dissident1
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To: FerociousRabbit

Im in. The idea needs to be floated out there. Conservatives need to move to a certain part of the country and start the process. Once we have occupied a certain amount of states we should get the ball rolling.


8 posted on 11/06/2012 10:44:02 PM PST by hillarys cankles
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To: Salamander

Long live Dixie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd1oA47Ti0I&bpctr=1352272044

“Duty is ours; consequences are God’s.”

Thomas Stonewall Jackson


9 posted on 11/06/2012 10:44:50 PM PST by Democrat_media (limit government to 5000 words of laws. how to limit gov Quantify limited government ...)
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To: LifeComesFirst

Unless you can expel the “takers” there is no point.


10 posted on 11/06/2012 10:45:54 PM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: GeronL
The opposite is true. It's almost inevitable at some point, though it may take defeat in a major foreign war to kick it off.. Our laws, our ideals, our shared culture as a nation is being destroyed. Loyalty to a metrosexual faux Führer and his mountain of debt won't keep us together, not when 40% of us hate the ground he walks on.
11 posted on 11/06/2012 10:46:48 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: FerociousRabbit

We are all dissappointed.

Dissappointed in the election results and dissappointed in our fellow Americans.

But we must use caution in our posts.

We are now living in a fascist state, A Socialist State,a new America where homosexuality, and the death panels rule.

We are now living in a Country that is bound to go under.
The debt will take us down, and the dogs that have laid in wait for the downfall of America will be attacking , and we have a coward at the head of our country.

It is what most Americans wanted and it is what they will get.

It is almost too unreal for me to believe.


12 posted on 11/06/2012 10:47:26 PM PST by Venturer
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To: LifeComesFirst

Totally open to the idea. Very possibly the only option left at this point, now that the parasitic class has crossed the 50% tipping-point. The country’s been decaying for a while, but pace is about to grow exponentially.


13 posted on 11/06/2012 10:47:31 PM PST by greene66
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To: LifeComesFirst

Liberals are smart in tactics. They go to the cities, where most of the money is made and leech off their success. That’s why cities are so liberal. Then they go to red states with low taxes and wait and wait until they can leech off them.


14 posted on 11/06/2012 10:48:38 PM PST by ari-freedom
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To: Salamander

Secession is not enough. We need to take the whole country back, not just a few red states. Revolution is the right word, not secession. Take it all. Every bit of it. Take it all back. Stop thinking so small.


15 posted on 11/06/2012 10:48:42 PM PST by jim35 (Obama: the second sabateur-in-chief.)
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To: LifeComesFirst

You will get arguments that it isn’t possible because it is illegal, or that the states have a share in the debt, blah blah blah... the truth is I don’t think it was legal in 1860 either, and quite honestly, the tyranny from the “Union” is worse now than in 1860. And as to the shared debt, the new nation sets up its own currency, establishes what it considers to be a fair rate of exchange, and either pays it off, or immediately claims default (like bankruptcy) and implements laws forbidding collection practices by other nations. There is a movement in Texas, and has been for some time now, that has a lot already planned out. Just need the Governor and the Texas Legislature to declare it. Offer the citizens a choice to stay on or leave with no tax implications. Invite those of like-minded states to join and form a new republic. And write a new constitution based on the original draft and bill of rights. It is not as far-fetched as many will point out here. Barring revolution, it may be the only sane idea left. Quite honestly, why would Obama even fight it? He hates us anyway. Now the leechers in California who sponge off our power grid, well they’d be a mite bit pissed, but we’ll still sell them power... for a steep price. With the Eagle Ford shale project, Texas will have a sustainable amount of natural gas, oil, and wind power as well to remain totally energy independent. If Perry won’t play, we need someone in charge who will.


16 posted on 11/06/2012 10:49:42 PM PST by Tuxedo (OK Texas - time to secede now.)
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To: TexasRepublic

“Takers” can be expelled automatically by having little or no welfare. Before the breakup, each side can draft its proposed constitution.

But like I said, the first step is to break the taboo of discussing it and to get people to treat it like a serious policy idea. Not in the distant future but starting tomorrow. As it is, all politicians want to talk about uniting the nation and bringing all sides together and so forth, but I would like to see governors, senators, mayors, etc start talking openly about how this country *cannot* be united, get the meme out there that hoping for unity is pointless and that a peaceful breakup is the answer.


17 posted on 11/06/2012 10:50:52 PM PST by LifeComesFirst (http://rw-rebirth.blogspot.com/)
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To: LifeComesFirst

If Texas secedes I’ll move there in a heart beat.


18 posted on 11/06/2012 10:50:59 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: LifeComesFirst

I’m talking about it. I’ll wait until after the 2016 election. If we nominate a real conservative. If that candidate loses, time for a peaceful split.


19 posted on 11/06/2012 10:53:01 PM PST by driftless2
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To: hillarys cankles

Look at the election map. The old Confederacy (minus that nasty carpet-bagging Commonwealth of Virginia and that New York/New Jersey swamp they call Florida). I say let the South rise again!!!!


20 posted on 11/06/2012 10:53:19 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: LifeComesFirst

I’m game for secession. If it doesn’t happen now, it won’t happen later.


21 posted on 11/06/2012 10:56:12 PM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State)
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To: LifeComesFirst

This is Urban vs rural America.

Look at the Red / Blue maps of the country by county - this is a geographical issue.

Problems and solutions in side cities are different than they are in rural areas but centralized government only provides one size fits all solutions.

Each group is trying to impose its will on the other

The cities provide cultural color and ah ah ah hm not sure what else, oh yeah big banks!

and Rural America provides Water, Power and Food

Maybe each faction could just keep what they have and everything will work out?


22 posted on 11/06/2012 10:56:34 PM PST by jcon40
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To: LifeComesFirst

Hell. Even 41 percent of Texas voted Obama. Wow!

We are toast.


23 posted on 11/06/2012 10:58:48 PM PST by Professional
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To: Professional

41% would be your basic clueless Latinos here. Mix in a few college kids and there ya go. Can’t worry about that. Secession is in the future. The sooner the better. Do you know how hard it is going to be as a boy scout leader to say the pledge when I find the “one nation.... indivisible” part revolting now? I felt the same way four years ago. That is a sad commentary and I apologize to our vets out there. But what this country is turning into is not what you fought for.


24 posted on 11/06/2012 11:03:12 PM PST by Tuxedo (OK Texas - time to secede now.)
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To: hillarys cankles

I am in as well. In fact, I am already beginning to make plans for a successful move to Alaska before joining the secession movement. Texas is very much on the cards, and I think even governor Perry has flirted with the idea. If the midsection of this country can consolidate, it can secede as well. We will need a more decisive majority in these states however.

ALL CONSERVATIVES IN BLUE STATES -— MOVE!!!

I think Free Republic should now be an outpost of the freedom FOR a new republic.

We are completely justified here. We are no longer just two groups on opposite sides of the political spectrum who can come together to work a compromise. Democrats and Republicans are now two PROFOUNDLY DIFFERENT groups of people, with a PROFOUNDLY DIFFERENT view of life.
Someone mentioned Czechoslovakia. The same thing. A house divided does not stand. We must separate ourselves from what is quickly becoming the tyranny of the majority. The people of Oklahoma should not be dictated to by the people of Massachusetts (which I now consider officially a foreign country).

FREEDOM!


25 posted on 11/06/2012 11:04:58 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: Venturer

“But we must use caution in our posts.”

To the devil with caution!

We seek only to live peacefully, left to our own and among our own kind — our own kind being those who cherish liberty and individual self-reliance. That is not a crime. It is an idea. It is an idea and it cannot be extinguished so long as free men can choose to live free.

I choose to live free.


26 posted on 11/06/2012 11:07:43 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: LifeComesFirst

Secession?

I love the idea. Go see how many Army divisions we can take
with us and get back to us on that.

Oh!, ...and don’t forget, the Federal Government PAYS all
those guys so they might be kinda interested in how you are
going to do that.

Wait until the coming financial meltdown, when the Federal
Government is sooo broke it can’t even pay a simple soldiers
salary.

THEN they will listen to you real hard.


27 posted on 11/06/2012 11:09:08 PM PST by NeverForgetBataan (I am become Barry... destroyer of wealth)
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To: Democrat_media

Don’t get me started.

[and I more of a Mosby type, myself]


28 posted on 11/06/2012 11:10:09 PM PST by Salamander (Wounded, old and dangerous.)
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To: LifeComesFirst

Bookmark


29 posted on 11/06/2012 11:17:37 PM PST by SoCal SoCon (Conservatism =/= Corporatism.)
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To: TexasRepublic
Unless you can expel the “takers” there is no point.

Take steps to end the free ride and they will expel themselves.

The simple, unavoidable fact is that there is no future as one free and prosperous nation.

This election is transformational. This is now a european-style welfare state that will not be able to prop up the rest of the world economically or militarily. The results will be catastrophic.

30 posted on 11/06/2012 11:17:52 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: FerociousRabbit

Tonight is a bitter pill to swallow.

Tonight Americans chose to live off the Government, they chose to live under Government over regulation and to accept the scraps they are tossed.

The time will come to fight. Soon we wioll belike Greece, Broke and rioting when Government largesse runs out.When the dollar is worth nothing and pensions and welfare cease because there is no more borrowing to save us.

Be prepared to fight then, until then, as the old saying goes, Keep your powder dry.


31 posted on 11/06/2012 11:18:14 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Tuxedo

No offense. My wife bought me a new Seabee hat that I was going to wear to a Veteran’s Day Parade. Now, I doubt if I’ll even go. I refuse to salute the American Flag with Sheila Jackson Lee on the same float. Right now I don’t much feel like saluting it at all. And I sure as hell wouldn’t fight for what she has become.


32 posted on 11/06/2012 11:27:04 PM PST by Terry Mross (Once again I wasted my vote. But I have learned my lesson.)
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To: SoCal SoCon

Bookmark.


33 posted on 11/06/2012 11:33:13 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: FerociousRabbit

Where was our own kind tonight?

Are there any of them left?

We no longer live in a country where the majority are like you and I wanting to live free, be self reliant, industrious,work hard and enjoy the fruits of our labor.

We now live in a country that has sold their freedom for Unemployment checks, welfare, free health care that isn’t free.We now live in a country that is over regulated,living on borrowed money Godless, and their liberty doesn’t mean SH*t to them as long as the welfare check comes on the first of the month.

Blacks voted for 25% unemployment today and smiled while they did it.


34 posted on 11/06/2012 11:33:45 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer
Be prepared to fight then, until then, as the old saying goes, Keep your powder dry.

There need be no actual fighting. The riots are nothing, they are the idiot freeloaders venting their frustrations by breaking glass.

Secession is about letting two groups that hate each other govern themselves as they see fit. It used to be possible under one national government via federalism.

The freeloader problem will continue to grow and it will envelope every state. If Texas could end welfare tomorrow, the Obama voters would beat a hasty exit. Crime would drop dramatically and the economy would take off. Those willing to work would flock to the state.

That this empire will break up is a foregone conclusion at this point. It is only a matter of whether good leadership will make it work sooner and smoother or if it will be a consequence of a general collapse.

35 posted on 11/06/2012 11:36:13 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: LifeComesFirst

Before I hit the sack, there are efforts by groups both left and right promoting secession. Even Rush made a good point where you have two basic thought processes in this country that are totally incompatible with each other.


36 posted on 11/06/2012 11:37:06 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: TexasRepublic

Maybe so. but those of us who are producers will just up and quit..They layoffs will be coming on strong now..wait and see...doctors are going to quit.,ours today said the 0bamacare has already placed an additional admin burden on them and the cost of overhead is such that they can’t afford this. Last visit we got a notice in the mail with the codes and description of what we were seen for and it was required by the feds..our doc said he is stuck with this through Dec..and he is going to quit forwarding that crap on..patients don’t want that but what the hell we don’t count...what will happen to the doctor is that he is going to have his reimbursements cut ( this is for medicare and I suppose any other govt medicaid, medical etc program) and he said he loves what he does but he would rather be out riding his bike or surfing and won’t pay the govt in order to see patients. So the handwriting is on the wall,doctors are going to start qitting practice or will start the concierge form of practice where we pay a membership fee, get a super bill to sendn to a secondary or write it off but I suppose 0bama will see to it that we can’t write it off either..I go to a concierge doctor and love it...my secondary should take care of part of it..I need o send in the superbills to see how much..
Calling the CPA tomorrow to see what to do with the considerable amount have in my portfolio..how to hide it.


37 posted on 11/06/2012 11:42:11 PM PST by celtic gal
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To: LifeComesFirst

We have been on the path to two countries since the 1960s. Today accelerated the process.


38 posted on 11/06/2012 11:43:45 PM PST by sako shooter2 (eib & cib)
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To: Tuxedo

Not all of us in CA are lecchers and are not liberals..we are outnumbered, Many of us would leave but are stuck in this hell hole. It’s only redeeming value is along the coast where the weather is moderate with little to no smog. Other than that the whole damn state sucks.


39 posted on 11/06/2012 11:44:50 PM PST by celtic gal
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To: LifeComesFirst

“The historical trend has been for small countries to merge into big countries”.

Not lately. Yugoslavia is like 4 or 5 countries now. The USSR is now several countries. African countries are splintering. Hell, even Scotland is about to vote on independence from the UK, which is debating leaving any further association with the EU.

The historical trend in the last few dacades is big countries breaking down into smaller elements. Things aren’t bad enough yet for it to fly here. But they could be soon, and the right national disaster or presidential treason could spark such a move.


40 posted on 11/06/2012 11:47:26 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Venturer

And those of us who tried to warn those only interested in American Idol and The View are going to drag the rest of us who don’t deserve this right along for the “bump in the road” ride..God what fools America looks to be now and Europe is all a twitter with glee as we look more and more like those failed governments.


41 posted on 11/06/2012 11:47:33 PM PST by celtic gal
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To: Terry Mross

I take a different view on the flag...I refuse to fly my beloved flag, the one I served under for 30 years..so as of 9;45 when the networks all called this for the Marxist, I furled my flag. I refuse to fly it under these conditions unless I fly it up side down....but until we are a free nation of liberty, it stays safely furled. I’ll get a new Marine Corps Flag to fly..the EGA..Eagle Globe and Anchor instead...


42 posted on 11/06/2012 11:54:43 PM PST by celtic gal
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To: LifeComesFirst

We can do it peacefully this time or have a desperate struggle to the bitter end. Either way I good.


43 posted on 11/06/2012 11:55:02 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: LifeComesFirst

We can do it peacefully this time or have a desperate struggle to the bitter end. I’m good either way.


44 posted on 11/06/2012 11:55:36 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Nowhere Man
Before I hit the sack, there are efforts by groups both left and right promoting secession.

That is why it is stupid to frame this as a military confrontation. There are benefits to both sides.

Trying to hold together these two unequal parts will ultimately cause more violence.

The biggest downside is that the U.S.A. has held Russia and China in check for seventy years. If that is taken out of the picture it will suck to be their neighbors. And that will have consequences for us as well. But that is coming sooner or later as well. It is already starting with the automatic budget cuts in January.

45 posted on 11/06/2012 11:56:21 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: celtic gal

Oh I forgot to add, should a teleprompter fall on the Marxist and kill him or should he get eaten by a shark on a Hawaiian vacation..some thing like that but certainly not murder because I would loathe to see those kind of JFK honors granted this grifter, then my flag will fly at full staff!


46 posted on 11/06/2012 11:56:25 PM PST by celtic gal
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To: DouglasKC

“If Texas secedes I’ll move there in a heart beat.”

Ditto.


47 posted on 11/07/2012 12:39:38 AM PST by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: LifeComesFirst

If secession becomes a reality, then it would be worth the pain of an Obama re-election in my opinion. We were already past the tipping point before this election, really. But I have learned in the past that good things can come out of bad and most clouds do have a silver lining of some sort.

Secession is, of course, a stretch, but we don’t know how bad things may get in the future. Spain’s had trouble with Basque separatists for a long time now; but who would have thought just a few years ago that large and wealthy Catalonia may be on the verge of secession too? Or that Flemish nationalists are chomping at the bit to break up Belgium? Or that the Scots are seriously discussing leaving the U.K.? Secession is still an unlikely scenario at this point for the U.S. but we don’t know what the future may bring and different parts of the country are undeniably divergent in beliefs, values, work ethic, demographics, traditions, and actions. Why should such differing peoples be forced together against their will?

Remember the “Jesusland” maps of 2004? The Lefties don’t like us any more than we like them. Now that they have the upper hand, though, I’m not so sure they’ll agree to an amicable separation. Only time will tell, but things will never again be the imaginary rosy picture Obama tried to paint in his victory speech (but which he never actually tried to create). Our America is already dead. It’s time to face that and salvage what we can.


48 posted on 11/07/2012 1:16:06 AM PST by FenwickBabbitt
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To: hopespringseternal
That is why it is stupid to frame this as a military confrontation. There are benefits to both sides.

Their underlying beliefs are centered around hatred and revenge. They are not looking for benefits. They want to destroy and humiliate. You are looking at this like a rational person, and are making the mistake in assuming that they are, as well. They believe that America (especially white America) is evil. They would never tolerate any kind of split. This is why you can never win an argument with a leftist. They don't care about economic theories, or any kind of principled discussion. Their passion lies in scathing contempt for those that believe in the ideals of this country.
49 posted on 11/07/2012 1:24:44 AM PST by jjsheridan5
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To: LifeComesFirst

Go Galt.


50 posted on 11/07/2012 1:28:32 AM PST by PR1776
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