Posted on 11/07/2012 8:14:26 PM PST by SeekAndFind
I just did a quick lookup of the Obama vs McCain popular vote as compared to the Obama vs Romney Popular vote and here is what I see:
Election 2008
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008
2008: Obama: 69,456,897 McCain: 59,934,814
TOTAL VOTES CAST: 129,391,711
Obama Victory Margin: 52.9% to 45.7% (9,522,083 votes)
Obama: 365 EV McCain: 173 EV
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Election 2012
Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012-election-results
2012: Obama: 60,652,149 Romney: 57,810,390
TOTAL VOTES CAST: 118,462,539 (2,841,759 votes)
Obama Victory Margin: 51.2% to 48.8%
Assuming Obama takes Florida (which as of this writing is still uncalled)...
Obama: 332 EV Romney: 206 EV
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What I find interesting are the following:
1) There were more people who voted in 2008 compared to 2012.
2) McCain got MORE votes in 2008 than Romney in 2012. In fact, McCain got 2,124,424 MORE VOTES than Romney !!
QUESTION : WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE 2,124,424 McCAIN VOTES IN 2012?
3) Obama LOST OVER 8,804,748 Votes in 2012 compared to 2008!!
QUESTION: What happened to those 8,804,748 voters? Did they stay home?
I can only conclude the following, based on the above observations:
* There was LESS ENTHUSIASM by Americans to vote in 2012 than in 2008.
* Contrary to what we were led to believe by the GOP and what some FReepers claim they saw on the ground in their state, REPUBLICANS WERE NOT ENTHUSIASTIC TO VOTE THIS YEAR. In fact, I can see at least 2 Million of them staying home this year compared to 2008 based on the above numbers.
So much for the huge Get Out the Vote Effort, the huge, sellout crowds in Red Rocks Colorado and in Ohio...
* Even though Obama lost over 8 Million votes this year, most of those voters DID NOT switch to Romney, preferring to stay home ( I suspect many of these would be the disappointed youth of 2008 and the socially conservative blacks of 2008. The former still can't find good jobs and the latter couldn't vote for a gay marriage supporting candidate. However, they still could not vote for Romney. So, they stayed home ).
Also, I cannot help but conclude that a huge proportion of the GOP base STAYED HOME in 2012. Otherwise, where were the over 2 million votes that went to McCain in 2008?
This was a self-inflicted loss on the part of the Republicans.
You nailed it. I’m writing an article on these very numbers. We lost because most conservatives didn’t vote. They stayed home.
Doug Brady came to similar conclusions: http://conservatives4palin.com/2012/11/its-the-turnout-stupid.html
But the way I see it, this is our route for a comeback in 2014 and 2016. We have everything we need to save the USA.
Except, that is, for a conservative party to bring the voters home to America.
Can you say “Fraud”?
imo, and i’ve said this for a while, a lot of people did not want to vote for obama (except for the liberal elites and the welfare citizens).....people wanted to vote for someone else.....i really don’t think Romney gave them a good enough reason to vote for that someone else...
if Romney had been able to do from July through election day what he did from the first debate to election day there might have been a different outcome...
i also think there were a lot of stories that were never pushed by Romney (closing down Bain and flying 30 employees to NY to search for a colleagues missing daughter...paying for 7000 pints of milk for a VA hospital in MA out of his pocket) and were never broadcast nationally that would’ve helped his cause “connecting” with people....Romney could not tell the story but his surrogates could’ve gotten others to tell it...
Something is rotten.
I have friends on the ground in Ohio and Virginia who say the turnout was much greater in their towns than in 2008. It does make me wonder a lot about fraud.....
So, why did conservatives not vote?
Laziness? Prefer a pure conservative to a flip flopping opportunist like Romney?
This is the age old debate that has been occurring in thread after thread here in FR.
Many FReepers just COULD NOT pull the thread for Romney because they say he was a RINO governor from MA who was pro-choice before he decided to be pro-life, and was the inspiration behind Obamacare.
The counter question has always been this -— IS OBAMA AS THE ALTERNATIVE A BETTER RESULT FOR THE COUNTRY?
These people would rather make the perfect the enemy of the not so bad.
Well, that’s the reason we are here today.
Anecdotally I talked to two conservative Catholics and that was a reason they wouldn't vote for him.
RE: Can you say “Fraud”?
There could be some. But I don’t believe it is enough to give Obama a 2 million vote margin.
Just look at the numbers -— OVER 10 MILLION LESS OVERALL VOTERS IN 2012 COMPARED TO 2008, and ROMNEY ACTUALLY GETTING LESS VOTES THAN McCAIN !!
2 Million cheated votes? Highly unlikely ( unless we have solid evidence of this of course ).
It was individual dem vote fraud, and more significantly, dem fraud by way of voting machine manipulation. This election was stolen just like in any other dictatorship-3rd world banana republic hell hole. It’s over. They know how to manipulate the voters, and the votes, and just enough so it is not blatant. They will save that for later. You know, like when the other Hussein used to get 100 percent of the Iraqi vote.
I thought i read several times or saw it McCain won the popular vote.
RE: Anecdotally I talked to two conservative Catholics and that was a reason they wouldn’t vote for him.
So, Catholics would rather have as president, someone who :
1) Refuses to protect babies born alive from botched abortions.
2) Someone who goes to a church with a Pastor who damns America.
3) Someone who does not even go to church at all today.
I would like to propose a different theory.
Perhaps the evangelical Christians decided that they could not vote for a ticket consisting of a Mormon and a Catholic.
I hope that is incorrrect but if it is true I would personally like to thank them ever so much for giving us 4 more years of unfettered tyranny because of their religious predjudices.
The low vote count was something I noticed on election night even before the election was called for Obama.
Yes, its clear that many of the Republican voters stayed home.
Proportionally, Obama lost a lot more voters than the Republican candidate from 2008 but not enough to entirely change the outcome.
It’s all very disturbing and I don’t know what to make of it.
There was a core group of Republican voters who were VERY motivated (you can see them in the early-morning election day turnout and relatively good GOP early voting result). Yet at the same time, there were clearly some who didn’t vote at all.
It’s all very depressing. The Democratic Party has long had Blacks in their pocket, but now Latinos as well, and as long as these groups continue to vote along ethnic lines it makes electing a Republican president in the future much, much harder.
Edit to add:
4) Supports Gay marriage
5) Forces Catholic institutions to provide abortificents and contraceptives.
6) Is being sued by these same Catholic institutions.
Good questions. I’ll cover what I think in my article, which I’ll offer to AT or PP next week.
Why the conservatives didn’t vote —any reason is difficult to accept for those of us who see Obama as the worst possible alternative.
But vote they did not.
The why is the key to our victory and our republic, if we can keep it.
RE: Perhaps the evangelical Christians decided that they could not vote for a ticket consisting of a Mormon and a Catholic.
So, what is the alternative? To just sit back and allow this person to be President:
Someone who :
1) Refuses to protect babies born alive from botched abortions.
2) Someone who goes to a church with a Pastor who damns America.
3) Someone who does not even go to church at all today.
4) Supports Gay marriage
5) Forces Catholic institutions to provide abortificents and contraceptives.
6) Is being sued by these same Catholic institutions ( and evangelical schools like Wheaton )?
As I said before -— the problem we have is we make the perfect the enemy of the not so bad.
The end result is — WE GET SOMETHING VERY BAD.
I talked to a Gary Johnson voter today.....:(
Yes the vote total appears to be down, but mainly for Obama. I predict that Romney will exceed McCain's total in 2008, i.e., 59 million.
https://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results
Hundreds of thousands or millions of votes to come in soon?
Just reporting what I heard.
Both said that they weren't voting for Obama or Romney. That they were not going to vote for President.
RE: Good questions. I’ll cover what I think in my article, which I’ll offer to AT or PP next week.
Please do so Mr. Hatter. AT and PP are very widely read by conservatives and is often quoted by Limbaugh, Hannity and Mark Levin.
I’d really like to understand the reason for this disturbing “boycott” (for want of a better word) myself.
“The end result is — WE GET SOMETHING VERY BAD.”
That is exactly what happened. The republicrats are called the stupid party for a reason. Half a cup full of lite conservatism is better than a full cup of marxist tyranny but a lot of morons can’t see the difference.
Yes. It’s good to see the numbers laid out like that. It’s not as if Obama gained traction and beat out Romney. Obama lost a lot of his base. But so did Romney. They just stayed home.
The only thing I’m not sure of is who it was that decided to stay home. Values voters? Paulbots? Evangelicals? I suspect that Evangelicals were probably the largest contingent who simply refused to vote for Romney, but it would be interesting to get at least an approximate count.
In any case, Romney was a lousy candidate, and the figures prove it.
How many fewer people voted in the storm-hit areas? If there wasn’t a fall-off of more than 3 or 4 million votes cast in those states, I suspect some fraud that took away Romney votes instead of what we are most often concerned about — adding democrat votes. I’m not a conspiracist, but the way things are going in this country, and with a thug as the attorney general, I am legitimately concerned that there was some of that.
It would be interesting to research obituaries since November 2008, because according to the pundits the Republican Party only appeals to old white guys. A high mortality rate of that demographic might explain the lower Republican voting numbers in 2012. Obviously the demographics of the other party are multiplying at record numbers. It’s just simple math that says it will get more difficult each election as the profile of one party decreases and the profile of the other party increases.
The GOTV in Colorado was NOT impressive, though I DID get harrassed by 500 robo-calls. Robocalling is simply stupid. It will net you 100,000 votes nationally, max. Hardly anyone walked precincts here, and while I did not see very many Obama signs compared to 2008, McCain/PALIN DEFINITELY had more signs in 2008 than Romney in 2912.
A FReeper named Strategerist has an answer to the question of why McCain had more votes than Romney. You might want to consider his observation.
See Post #28 here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2956819/posts?page=26#26
He says:
*****
There are MANY STATES with SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF UNCOUNTED VOTES.
10% are still out in Ohio. 14% are still not counted in New York. And that is just states I’ve looked at.
That’s almost all the discrepancy just based on that.
What would the numbers have been like if Sandy wasn’t around...how many people didn’t vote because of Sandy?
A FReeper named Strategerist has an answer to the question of why McCain had more votes than Romney. You might want to consider his observation.
See Post #28 here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2956819/posts?page=26#26
He says:
*****
There are MANY STATES with SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF UNCOUNTED VOTES.
10% are still out in Ohio. 14% are still not counted in New York. And that is just states I’ve looked at.
That’s almost all the discrepancy just based on that.
Nonsense. Before writing any article, I would wait until all the ballots cast have been counted. There are millions of votes to be added to these totals. Once they are in you can analyze them state by state. Romney will surpass McCain in total votes.
Your post: “Can you say ‘Fraud’?”
With a keystroke Ben Bernanke can create billions of dollars.
With a keystroke, entire republican-dominated precincts’ votes can be wiped out. Reduces both dem and pub votes, but more pubs than dems. Turnout appears to be lighter.
A few election cycles back, Shelby County TN (includes Memphis) supposedly lost some early voting results in precincts in the eastern (republican) part of the county. Funny, they could not get them back. Oh well.
An electronic voting system can be hacked and a simple program installed to add dem votes in the total and reduce pub votes — add one dem every three, reduce 1 pub every 10.
The possibilities are endless.
RE: What would the numbers have been like if Sandy wasn’t around...how many people didn’t vote because of Sandy?
Sandy could have affected only the following states:
VA, CT, FL, NY, NJ and maybe parts of PA ( The Western part, which includes Philly which would have depressed turnout ).
Of the above, only VA, PA and FL are of concern to us as the rest are blue states anyway. Sandy would have been advantageous to the GOP in PA.
As for OH, IA, WI and CO, Sandy was not even a factor, but even then, Romney did not win any of these.
Only 69% of CA has reported. Millions will come from CA alone with 9 million reported already.
It would be the Mormon half that some (maybe a million at most) would balk at. Catholicism would be a problem only for a tiny sliver of the Evangelicals. The other part is that while many Evangelicals were willing to vote for Mitt and did, their enthusiasm may have been dampened, so that they weren't so excited about actually WORKING for the ticket. ---An evangelical since I was 5 years old (except for two stupid years in college when I was a hard leftist and a confused agnostic)
“Old white guys” dying is more than offset by the fact that conservatives have had more childen than liberals for how many decades now? At least since the killing of the unborn became a “right” in 1973. It’s fact. So many liberals have their children killed in the womb. Other liberals can’t have babies (except artificially inseminated) because they have “sex” with members of their own sex.
Hurricane Sandy could have affected only the following states:
VA, CT, FL, NY, NJ, DE, MD, DC and maybe parts of PA ( The Western part, which includes Philly which would have depressed turnout ).
Of the above, only VA, PA and FL are of concern to us as the rest are blue states anyway. Sandy would have been advantageous to the GOP in PA.
As for OH, IA, WI and CO, Sandy was not even a factor, but even then, Romney did not win any of these.
There are over 160,000 precincts in the US....each with over 1000 voters. (Ours has around 2000). 10 extra (or withdrawn) in every precinct equals 1.6 MILLION votes...FRAUD could be EASY.
exactly - i noticed that too - we need to wait and see what the final vote totals are and then dig deep.
That’s my problem with the whole thing. We heard on the radio Idaho turnout were record numbers, like 80%. I kept hearing that all day, record turnouts everywhere. What the heck?
BS - turnout everywhere was much higher than reported.
Anyone think that early voting and absentee ballots may have stuffed the ballot boxes for Dems and lost the Repub ballots? Or maybe Repub votes fraudently counted as Dem?
Nah, couldn’t possibly happen, could it?
/S
Or it was voting machines changing Romney votes to Obama or being rigged to count a certain way? We saw it happening in swing states.
Also, the dems enthusiam for voter fraud was not as large this time as it was last time. You had plenty of voter fraud, but not like last time.
Why was my son in Belguim voting via the internet and the troops are not allowed to vote by internet? Some of the missing votes could be the troops who were systematically ommitted from what I read.
Romney was not all that inspiring. To us, because we read, he was a hope for better than Obama in foreign policy and the economy. But to low information voters, he did not stand out, except for being a rich globalist guy would would ban Big Bird and who mentioned nothing appealing about ideology of American freedom.
There is so much he could have done against Obama in addition to the usual rino economic and spending drab. Hello! Mindless sexual molestation at the airports is not popular with women.
Just saying McCain got more than Romney doesn’t mean anyone stayed home. We just have fewer conservative voters. 2.5 million have died each year since 2004, and well over half of those were age 75 and above (3/4ths were age 65 and above). These were depression era people that tended to vote and tended to vote conservatively. We’re talking about 18 million people. Figure a voting rate of 60% (10.8 million) and an R/D ratio of 54/46, and you have 5-6 million (4 million minimum) that probably voted for Bush in 2004 that didn’t vote for Romney. The younger voters replacing the older ones are voting in large part for D’s.
There’s no way conservatives stayed home in droves. I’m beginning to doubt that many stayed home in 2008. We have a different electorate and we’ve largely lost the ability to do anything about it. Immigration reform and voter id laws during the 2004-8 years would have helped tremendously, but that’s pretty much dead now.
Ping for final outcome.
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